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Okay I'm not even sure where to start. If you could please provide some references for the information you have provided I'd appreciate it, as I strongly disagree with your theories and the many lectures and courses I've attended have taught me differently I would like to know your sources in order to compare. Rather than debating point by point I'll simply agree that negotiating is not a good idea but for vastly different reasons. I am a trained negotiator and have attended many workshops put on by various business schools on the art of negotiation and economic egagement. I've also taken many marketing and social science courses where I've learned that there is a difference in how people approach different scenarios and that the mind does not and cannot apply market values to all engagements, that many people actually apply social values to many business engagements and that this is actually a very effective way for people to do business and that we often achieve higher tangible results by setting a social values environment. When social values are applied to a setting you'll find that switching to a market values mindset often offends the other party. Imagine having your mother-in-law make a really nice dinner and instead of bringing a nice bottle of wine (which is a form of payment, but a gift is a socially accepted payment) you at the end of it decide to stand up and say "that was great, now what do I owe you?" and proceed to count out some cash and toss it on the table. That would be socially unacceptable, you would be applying market values to a social setting and she would not find it funny. Instead saying "That was wonderful and I appreciate your hard work, I'd like to get you a nice gift." would be a socially acceptable response. We as a society accept gifts in kind for our hard work in social situations. When escorts are working they generally apply social values, hence they ask for the money in an envelope and not to be discussed. Because the discussion of money begins to bring Market values into terms and they now have a business mindset which is hard to get out. They can no longer feel like they are out with a friend and having fun, which ruins the social mood, they are now applying market values. Since they cannot just accept gifts as they do require payment as a source of income they have found a way to keep the market values discussion to a minimum by using 3rd parties (agents) or using the advertisements to set rates on their behalf. Negotiation beyond an initial discussion will ensure that a market values mindset is in place and girls will feel like they are entering a business transaction which I cannot stress enough will for many not allow them to get the 'social/date' atmosphere back and they will not be able to enjoy their meeting. This is not about being professional or not, it's simply the way the majority of peoples minds work across all professions. This is an area of marketing that is studied and taught in Universities and Business Schools around the world and it's very effective in gaining our trust and getting our business. Understanding this is how we think and how we act goes a long way to explaining not only the SP industry but why we purchase the investments we do, why we select a certain Doctor, Bank, Insurance company (Like a good neighbour State Farm is there - an example of a social values marketing), etc. I would probably say that the opposite is true, it's a sign of professionalism for a girl to recognize that many clients apply social values to these situations and that avoiding a market value situation is important in ensuring a good call for a vast majority of clients. I have read many a review where the client posts that they felt uncomfortable that the topic of money was brought up, this is often because they unknowingly switched to a market value mindset and could not suspend the social values belief. A good friend would not have brought up the issue of money, it goes back to the scenario of counting out the money at the Mother-in-laws table, a good SP will recognize the difference and does not allow market values to enter the equation otherwise she risks putting her client in an awkward situation. Likewise clients that have a market values expectation of negotiating each detail should not book SP's that have social values and SP's that have market values should not seek clients that have social values, the two will not be able to engage each other and will feel terribly disconnected from each other. Studies show that most people once they apply market values to a situation they cannot return to social values. The majority of clients and ladies see it as a social environment and need to suspend the belief it is not a transaction so bringing market values into the transaction is not something that can be done. It is not about the persons abilty to negotiate, I know how to negotiate and have no difficulty doing that. It is about understanding marketing and social sciences. If you continue your research and learn more about the nuances of negotiation skills and the mindset behind it then perhaps you'll learn that there is a lot more than just the dollars and cents aspect. I'd suggest reading Predictably Irrational to start as that's the book I referenced most. In addition the MIT Opencourseware on Negotiation is an easy access if you don't have access to the certification programs at Shulich or Rotman. http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Sloan-School-of-Management/15-667Spring2001/Syllabus/index.htm

With all due respect Dummpy, I strongly have to disagree with you. The Gentleman who wants to negotiate a donation is out of line and demontrates a total lack of respect for the Lady he wants to spend time with, especially that the acts shared between those two people are so intimate! I don't think, at any time, a negotiation of donation is acceptable in this industry! When I go for a real, professional massage, I pay for the full 60 or 90 or 120 minutes and tell her/ the masseuse what I'm looking for and what I am confortable with. I do not ask the Lady to not massage my feet or my upper back or my lower legs just to save a few dollars. I wonder what the Lady's and the spa's reaction would be if I tried to negotiate the rate of their services! :shock: They would probably tell me to take a shorter session or go somewhere else that is less expensive!!! You either want to spend time with that Lady or you don't. Negotiating price and acronyms should not be part of the experience. By starting negotiations with Gentlemen who feel the need to do so, you will only open the door to more headaches! Maria, I believe by creating a "menu a la carte" will only complicate things for you in the long run and may attract a clientele of Gentlemen who may only be looking for the lowest price with the most acronyms available! Is it really what you are looking for?... Negotiating price and acronyms?? Now, if it is the type of Gentlemen you are looking forward to spending time with, then it might be a good solution after all. (I guess it all depends on what your/our personal definition of a good time and quality time/experience with a Gentleman means to each of us.) On the other hand, if you are looking to share a more pleasurable experience with a Gent, then I don't recommend you use this option. Now, if you decide to offer a special lower donation during a specific time, then the Gents should take full advantage of it and appreciate it that much more! By the way Dummpy, the "NO, NEVER, NOT" is not the mood killer... Asking to negotiate in the first place was! :wink: xox Just a little side note: Maria, I will tell you that when I first started in this industry as a companion (my hobby :boobies:), about two years ago, I created a "GFE table d'hote menu" for my Gentlemen to consult before our rendez-vous... (It helps to create a certain level of confort and we don't need to stop and ask if xxx is ok to do during the passionate moments)... I used to send it via email to everyone who contacted me then decided to post it on all the boards a little while ago... Anyway, if you want to take a look, you will see that I list everything I am confortable sharing with Gentlemen and acts that I refuse to share for personal reasons. If the Gent doesn't want to share a specific activity with me, my donation still remains the same. :wink:

There is currently a separate ongoing thread discussing the merits of whether hobbiests should have their own secular "reputation points" system. I'm suspect that this is an issue easily resolved. However, I would be interested in a somewhat similiar discussion. Simply put,....from the SP's perspective..."What was your favourite experience?"...,"What makes/breaks the atmosphere for you during a session?"..." If the hobbiest looks like George Costanza but sings like Julio Iglassias....is that enough?" I think you know where I'm going with this....perhaps some of you talented, charming and lovely SP's could look upon this as an opportunity to ....."give us hobbiests a little direction and incentive".....either way..I think that it could be fun. I don't believe that any names need to be mentioned...but if the experience was shared....I'm sure the hobbiest would know who the SP was speaking of. 8-)8-)

Miss Butterfly, I have to agree with you 100% that it does make me sound arrogant or even cocky to say this, but I really believe that every moment is a priviledge. I believe in respect and appreciating every moment. And well, I do think I am special, as is everyone. I do feel It is also a great priviledge that I have, to be able to work in this buisness and meet wonderful people and be attractive enough and enjoy intimate times enough and be a good people person.. yes I am also lucky to be able to live of this buisness and to meet men who are nice to me. I just find it extremely disrespectful of men to ask for discounts and make me (or any woman) feel like they have to do what ever they want. I get frustrated by injustice and disrespect, I can't help it. It must be my passionate nature.

OK, I have some input on this. I provide service of a different kind and my clients share( by word of mouth) how good my service is. This is how I get more business. I would never share with them personally or publically how their receipt of my service was, it would be terrible for business. I do however share with other providers of the same service if I have a non-paying client and over demanding client etc... Futhermore, An Actor doesn't review how well a movie goer watched his movie, a chef doesn't review his diners etc....Sps/MAs provide a service and we hobbiests review/recommend this service. Imagine your mechanic telling other car owners how well or poorly you maintain your car, a dentist your teeth or even a doctor your health... Every so often when reviewed/recommended an SP/MA will comment and its a nice feeling to get feedback, but I think a form dedicated would be unwise for Mod, Hobbiest and SP/MA alike. Just my very humble opinion.

i like getting to know my clients. Through email letters,calls, chatting or even just here on the board. Reading what people have to say is a great way to get to know someone. As far as greatest experiences i have had many and i'm sure i will have many more. Can i say one was better then another well sure i can but will i.....not a chance...lmao As for looks the truth is i can see beauty in everyone. Everyone has something special to offer another person. Maybe its the way they smile.their laughter,their sexuality or their brains...but everyone has something. May sound like bs but people who know me know i have a big heart....unless you are closed minded...lmao kisses, Emma

My most memorable session was with a much older gentleman who didn't rush, had the envelope upfront, and we clicked instantly. Much of what an ideal date with me would describe on my website was pretty much to a T of what our session was like. He wasn't the best looking, nor the highest paying, but he was very very respectful, sensual and generally nice.

Don't worry about the rep points. I learnt that myself. Some long time members here have little or none, and some newbie members on here have more than 50 and are trusted members. Just be yourself and post as you want. Treat everyone on here with respect, and you will be fine.

Shall I be the first sp to comment? I didn?t read this entire thread just skimmed through it and everyone has good points. Just to let you know there are several boards for sp?s only in which we can verify men and also make comments on them which is for safety only, not to give details about his performance. The things that are usually noted are ?shows up on time as scheduled? and other important info that is necessary for this business. These sites are mostly in the USA but many Canadians also use them. I use them because I do occasionally work in the USA when I travel and I have many American clients who come up here. P411 is a good example here is a link http://www.preferred411.com. A clients first and last name, his phone number and occupation are listed. This way you don?t get any problems and if a guy is a problem everyone knows about it and he is stopped quickly before he can hurt anyone else, it also helps with no shows cause then if he screws up others will be hesitant to book him and if he doesn?t want to lose his good name then he will treat you with respect. this is more so needed in the USA because of the danger as escorting is more under ground there hence it being illegal. Since you can walk into a massage parlor here it isn?t needed so much. Men in the USA know to book escorts they need to give their info and they don?t have a problem with this. Anyways this was just to inform you that there are some systems set up incase you weren?t aware. I hope that made sense as I have a sinus headache. I wrote a review here once I think it may be in the fat bastard comedy section. :) Haven?t heard much from them lately maybe their agency folded.

OK, I've been doing it for years. It started slowly when customers asked me to stick my (gloved) finger in their bums. That's when I realized how popular it is and decided I will offer it for a fee. I am an erotic masseuse and I can tell you 90% of men LOVES being teased around their bum area. Many love a finger in there, and a smaller percentage is absolutely crazy about it. It can range from just sticking a finger inside to a real finger-fucking, excuse my French :) I get the occasional customers who try it and don't like it, but that's why I warn people on my website so they know this is not everybody's cup of tea. And because it is still considered a taboo subject, many guys don't have the courage to ask for it or try it. Also, it needs experience, because if done incorrectly, it can hurt. Needs a lot of teasing, you have to prepare most guys. Of course, there are the ones who have used dildos or butt-plugs on themselves many times before and they are so into it that they don't need too much preparation. My job is to find out at what level they are. And, I have news for you. There are a lot more men then they would admit interested not only in prostate massage or strap-on, etc, but who admit TO ME, that they fantasize about being done by other guys. These guys are not gay, they are normal guys with a special interest ;) One thing I love about this job is that you learn so much about men's sexuality in the process.

I don't write reviews for all the women I've seen on the board. I have seen over 12 women off of here and only wrote 3 reviews. Because the other dates did not warrant reviews. And if the guy enjoyed himself he shouldn't be worried about being reviewed. I thought it would be fun for both the SP's and the clients. Again ITS NOT A BAD DATE SECTION! NO NEGATIVE REVIEWS! Like the SP reccommendation section. I would love to put up 2 bad reviews on 2 ladies I've seen, but I can't.:evil::shock:

My two cents.. In an industry such as this, where DISCRETION is of the utmost importance, I'm baffled by this request? First, If safety is the concern, why would a pic help? A crazy man's not goning to care if he sends you a fake pic.. by the time you know its a fake he has the address/info.(ie: crazy guys will not be weeded out) If personal hygiene is your concern, a well placed " Let's take a shower" or "would you like to freshen up" will usually suffice. So to sum it up.. I'd say its not about either of those factors. This industry is well suited for women with depth of character and a love of men (of all shapes, sizes and ethnicity's) vanity and a "high opinion" of one-self will do you absolutely no good in the long run. I understand it is the personal choice of each sp, but in the end alienating half of your client base is just, bad business 101. Just my thoughts.. Kim.. (p.s. Most of my BEST sessions tend to begin, with the most timid and shy emails I receive..lol.. It's an intimadating thing, (contacting an escort) So I would say she's missing out on some great clients.. who DEPEND on DISCRETION) .