Leaderboard

My two cents... - I don't think haggling an SP is respectful or acceptable - I do understand that some SP's are more than happy to negotiate their rates/services, and that is completely fine. Each person is going to act according to their own values and comfort. If an SP has clearly stated that she is open to suggestions, then by all means take her up on the offer! However, after looking at many a website, I have noticed that an overwhelming number of them have CLEARLY stated that their rates are NEVER up for negotiation whatsoever, and the numbers based on meaghanmcleod's tallies speak for themselves (thanks for putting that together, by the way!) I understand that many people (specifically hobbyists) have mentioned that negotiation is a regular part of doing business, independent contractors especially. While I agree that it is a part of business, we are not talking about some intangible object or a 'regular' service based business. We are talking about a woman's body, mind and well-being here. Many of you hobbyists have no idea what being on the SP-side of this business is like; what kind of personal, mental and emotional tolls it can take. Yes a 'normal' job can cause distress and each have their own specific consequences, but sharing your body and your Self with your clients is a whole different ballgame. I don't mean to speak for *everyone* or speak in terms of absolutes here, either. Regardless of whether a woman has a solid self-esteem and sense of worth there are still many issues we have to deal with that a hobbyist does not. And while there are certain issues that the client deals with on their side of things (I'm definitely not saying you guys don't have to deal with risks or emotional issues of your own), I think you need to take into account that whatever issues you deal with as the client, ours are magnified a hundred times over. Our rates reflect (not necessarily all of these, but many) - Bodily maintenance like buying expensive lingerie, clothing, makeup as well as things like getting waxed, laser hair treatments, nails done, etc so we can look and feel our best for you... all of which are expensive and/or painful; Also frequent testing and risks of UTI's, yeast infections, etc from unhygienic clients or use of toys, all of which cost money and can be very painful and uncomfortable; - Costs to rent out/provide a space for you to come and enjoy us; - Touring costs; - Transportation costs; - Taking time off so we can heal, get our minds right, not be an object/living blow up doll for a while; **I'm not saying we all feel like this, or feel it all the time - but personally, there have definitely been moments** - Dealing with a hobbyists ignorant/mindless comments from time to time (I'd like to point out that the vast majority of you gentleman are great, respectful and a pleasure to work with, but the occasional asshat does appear and can make us feel dirty, ashamed or even scared for our lives) - The risk of being hurt physically, or even extreme cases where the woman is killed or sold. Honestly, how likely is it that an SP is going to have some kind of psychotic episode and physically hurt you? How many times have you heard of that happening? Yet how many thousands of women have died, been sold, been stalked, harassed, hurt or been in any kind of pain because of a client? - We take a huge risk in our personal lives for being stigmatised, called out, exposed, losing friendships/relationships and even family members; especially us providers that show our faces in our pictures. And I would also like to point out, for the people who are going to jump in and say "Well if she struggles with issues, she shouldn't be doing this job!!!" -- Okay, yes. There are people who aren't mentally/emotionally equipped for this job. And when the cons start outweighing the pros, that's when she should either take a break or retire. However - there are many women who are most definitely able to do this who have moments where they want to quit because we deal with a LOT. ALL the time. Regardless of whether a woman is able to handle this job or not, please recognize that we have a LOT more to deal with than the average person. Not to sound high-and-mighty or anything, but we do! So no... I don't think you should negotiate a woman's rates. Ever. If you think a rate is too high, find someone who offers their services for a lower rate. End of story. We take too many risks to be lowballed or haggled with by an opportunistic person who doesn't take into account all the things we go through and worry about so that we can be here doing what we do. Sorry if I sounded harsh, accusatory, or like a total whiner! I am not trying to come off as defensive or angry here; I just personally find it extremely insulting when people make comments about my rates as if I don't provide a great experience that isn't "worth" what I ask for it, or make me feel like they are doing me a favor by paying my asked price. Please!

:) hehe

- Your right (or left) hand: you had it since you were born. Spit in it and jerk off. It's always free.

I'm kind of late into this debate but here's the way I look at it. When I book an appointment with my Doctor, Lawyer or Dentist the fees are non-negotiable...none of you would ever dream of asking those worthy folks for a discount because you know it's just not going to happen. You also respect them too much to suggest such an arrangement. I agree that there are sometimes promotional considerations...specials offered for loyalty visiting or CERB gents or "time of the month" specials but those are offered by the SP of her own volition and not under the pressure of negotiation.They are business choices made freely and openly. I've had conversations with SPs who tell me that they get calls from guys who start by saying something like "I'd really like to book with you but you're too expensive..." for most of them that's the end of the conversation. It shows that the caller is in fact calling the wrong person..."Sorry wrong number!" is what one of my ATFs used to say just before abruptly ending the conversation. As the Mod stated...find a lady you like in line with your budget and go and enjoy....if you don't then you don't repeat and you look again. It's really just that simple.

Negotiating is one of my professional areas of expertise (large construction and/or service contracts, sponsorships, labour contracts etc.). Most (not all) of what is being described and discussed in this thread is better characterized as haggling or asking for a price discount, not true negotiation. Negotiation involves an exchange of interests, building a relationship for the future and multiple variables that can be grouped in different ways to create value for both parties. Sp services would be akin to personal/consulting services contracts. In these service contracts hourly rates are not negotiated. What is negotiated is how much time, effort and quality is expected in the service provided or product delivered. Even then, there is a service threshold below which a company will not go just to obtain revenue. This is because the quality of service will be below their standards and will affect their reputation and future business. With the exception of a Sugar Daddy arrangement, there doesn't seem to be much room for an sp to negotiate the quality and quantity of service while maintaining their service standards and hourly fee. Here are a few examples of discount, haggling and negotiating. Price Discount A price discount usually involves a percentage or flat fee discount off the usual price in an attempt to increase volume (e.g. summer specials, early bird discount). The seller sets the discount rate, announces its terms and the length of time it's available. Some sp's advertise these discounts. Others may provide price discounts if they have received a retainer (cash in advance) for multiple sessions. The client doesn't "negotiate" you pay the advertised special rate. Haggling Haggling works for sellers when there is no posted price or the posted price is higher than what they normally accept. The seller tries to get the maximum amount of money from each client. (Think Moroccan market). The client asks the price or offers an amount. The seller responds with a price which is higher than they were offered and is in fact higher than what they usually accept. Back and forth for a while. An unsophisticated client will pay more than others. So gentlemen, be careful what you ask for! In addition in an Internet age the various prices will get around and damage the sp's business. Some men will be upset they paid more than others, while others will now only pay the lowest price they've seen quoted by other clients. Haggling works for a purchaser when the price is fixed but there are overhead costs (e.g delivery, installation etc) which are built into the business and the seller has some flexibility to "negotiate " those costs. While sp's have overhead costs, there aren't a whole lot of flexible costs that they can discount, without it coming directly out of their purse. I suppose if you wanted to try their make up on, they might indulge that for no extra charge lol. But don't touch their shoes or stockings lol Forbes magazine describes haggling as short-sighted "Which is emotionally charged, combative... that leads to low-quality solutions and results in lose-lose outcomes." Negotiation Here's an example of defining the terms of a Sugar Daddy relationship which involves true negotiation, but which I don't believe can apply to a 30 minute to multi-hour appointment with an sp. A client approaches an sp about formalizing a Sugar Daddy relationship. They discuss whether it will be an exclusive relationship, the net income the sp expects to make, the frequency and type of services which will be provided. How much payment will be cash and how much will be Value in Kind (e.g. housing, grooming, clothes, travel etc). How much cash income does the sp need (car payments, tuition, entertainment etc.) Let's take one element, housing. Maybe the Sugar Daddy offers a high end condo that he owns to offset some of his cash fees to the sp. Maybe the sp doesn't want to move. Maybe if she moves, she wants a lease to guarantee a one year occupancy and 2 months notice in case the relationship doesn't work out. Maybe the Suggar Daddy wants to assign a $3000/month market value to the condo as part of his cash and Value in Kind offer. The sp responds that even if it's worth $3000, since she's only paying $1000 a month rent now, she can't afford to lose an additional $2000 income just to live in greater luxury. My point is that there's a complexity to "negotiations". There are lots of variables in play. Each party describes their interests, but they also try to understand the other party's interests and satisfy them. They also want to build a long term relationship with a win/win solution. Asking for a discount on a one hour session or offering the $200 bucks you've got is not negotiation. Personally Personally, although I'm very comfortable negotiating, I don't try to negotiate, haggle or ask for a discount from service providers. I understand, accept and appreciate that the service providers I see, and most of those posting in this thread, operate on a fixed price model which is common for most goods and services in North America. Just accept and respect that. On a lighter note... If you've made it this far. When I typed "Maybe the Sugar Daddy offers a high end condo" autocorrect changed "condo" to "condom" lol

count me in as well. these events are always a great chance to meet some of the fine ladies (and gents), and have a few drinks along with it!!! misterT... I will be getting in contact with you soon to reserve my spot!! cant wait

Put me in as a potential

Everyone in porn does AIM testing, which is a special kind of testing that can detect HIV within 14 days of infection (regular testing can take up 6 months to show HIV) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_Industry_Medical_Health_Care_Foundation Your test results contain either your passport or driver's license number as indentification, so that way when you're on set no one can use false papers that say they are clean. I had to go to Detroit to get mine done (was living in Windsor at the time), it was always very pricey (about 300$ a hit). Then they gave me my special papers to use on set. So in porn, it's much safer and I'm willing to to uncovered services as I know my partner is clean, whereas with escorting I'm a total safe GFE, as there is no way of knowing my partner status, and i'm not going to take chance. With porn, you also get a say in your partner, so you can pick someone you're attracted to. With escorting, the gent picks you, so you never know who you are going to see :) It's alot of work and usually is many takes before you get the shot. I always laugh when i watch porn as i can tell when she's into it and when she's like "omg get the shot already i had enough" or " im really not feeling it but i need get paid so OH OH OH" Porn is fun lol but another world completely................

great! as long as those getting acquainted with other people's views are actually LISTENING to their views ;) thats never a bad things either....regards

Most of this has already been debunked. I found a post in a other thread a while back that I'm going to copy. "Interesting. - I had a barber for 10 years, and although the rates increased over the years, they didn't for me, and I kept my regular every 2 week appointment. - I have an accountant, and because of the money spent on corporate accounting, my personal taxes are free and I regularly receive discounts on the hours charged. - Doctor visits are covered, but a health plan gives people discounts/free prescriptions, that not everyone receives. - Dentists, if you don't have a health plan, and their charging you the full rate, switch dentists. They only charge the full rate to get the full plan pay. If your plan pays less then the full amount, often you can negotiate with a dentist to accept what the plan pays. - lawyers. Put one on retainer (meaning you guarantee them a sum of income to be available for your needs) and you'll get great service from them, and very likely at a lower rate than any joe of the street, and you'll have access to them whenever you need, unlike a joe off of the street. - I'll add bankers also. Once you have a personal banker, you'll never line up for a service. You don't even pay them. Your portfolio is just that important."

It seems to me that the newbies only want us to give to them without them giving anything in return. They don't even want to read what has already been posted but just start off with their childish cries of "someone PM me with all the information I'm too lazy to read about myself" When they don't get the information they then cry " I am special and entitled so now I am going to have a childish rant until someone gives me what I am demanding." How about trying this for once you FNGs. Read the forum, call someone well regarded. Post a recommendation on one of our favourite ladies out there. Then make a couple thoughtful comments on what is available and the scene. Show some respect for those of us who have invested a lot of time and money learning our way around the Winnipeg scene and to have established relationships with the wonderful ladies out there, several of whom are regulars here as well. Then ask some questions. Send us PM's asking a question not just a general PM me with the information. There are several new guys who followed this path and are now respected members of this board and get to share in the information that is available. ( I know because that is what I did. I have also helped others who followed this path to become trusted members of the site.) Get it ....share... not ...demand that we spoon feed you... then cry when we don't.

I'm sorry but I just have to say this what is so different between this guy and you guys?? because he got caught?? he didn't deny it he was open about it he admitted he did something wrong now would you do that in the same situation I don't get it just because he's a public figure? I understand he was out of his territory and he didn't know the laws and what not but it's no different than anybody else he just he got caught.... we should be so lucky that entrapment is illegal in Canada otherwise we would hear about this everyday lol I just don't like when somebody says that this guy had a lack of respect for his wife and kids because he didn't he was just doing what other guys do everyday so for you to turn around and say that he had a lack of respect for his wife and kids is like saying that so do you...

The SO and I completed our Emergency First Aid and CPR + C training course today. Now if one of us has a cardiac event, we won't need to rely on 911 getting out to the country within the golden 9 minute rule. Country residents have been known to die while waiting for emergency assistance. That and the fact that I couldn't live with the knowledge of my wife dying before my eyes and I did nothing to save her. At least now I've taken steps to preserve her life, and she mine. To me, that is more meaningful than Roses and a hundred Valentines cards.

I'm in for sure :)

Having recently returned from a business trip to Ottawa, I am pleased to say that the culmination of the three dalliances I had there with the lovely ladies of CERB was two hours of passion with Victoria. She was my first erotic GFE MA experience and I can't recommend or thank her enough for an absolutely fantastic time. As my CERB handle indicates, I am an oral person. It is my favorite thing to do and to have done to me, but because those options were not open to me as part of a massage session, I had my doubts about it. Man, was I stupid! For anyone who hasn't had an erotic massage, but who has been with an SP, let me tell you something that will explain it all. They are akin to chocolate and vanilla ice cream. While the flavors are very different, they are both delicious and completely satisfying in every way! If you're smart enough to see Victoria, trust me when I say that you will be completely satisfied. :cool: After booking my appointment with Victoria far in advance, we exchanged several PMs which greatly built up my anticipation. When I arrived at her location and gave her the envelope, we proceeded to the shower which was both delightful and stimulating. :boobies: When we returned to the candlelit room with soft music playing, Victoria began slowly working her magic on me. After 4 days at a business conference, I totally needed a fantastic massage and she delivered the best I've ever had. :D Sliding herself all over my back, rubbing her amazing nipples against me and breathing passionately into my ears, I could not believe how aroused I became even before she told me to flip over. Once that happened ... well, things got really intense. :boobeyes: Although I was enjoying every touch and stroke, because we had two hours together, I wanted to return the favor as best I could. So we switched places and I massaged her as best I could with my limited skills, which her whimpers and gasps indicated that she enjoyed. :motion: Once again, I laid down on the table and Victoria began to bring me closer and closer to nirvana. When she began playing around with an area that I have always considered to be "exit only", and cutely asked if I was OK with it, I was feeling so good that I encouraged her to continue. What followed was my first PM and it drove me absolutely over the point of no return. My legs shook, my muscles spasmed, and I gave in to one of the most intense hand-induced orgasms I've ever had. I don't think I've experienced anything like that before, but now feel that I should try it again just to be sure that I liked it. ;-) After she toweled me off, we finished our time together with an excellent conversation, some light kissing, and another really enjoyable shower. I kissed her goodbye when she walked me to the door and I left feeling so relaxed that I wasn't sure it was safe to drive back to my hotel. Do yourself a favor ... book some time with Victoria and experience her passion, touch, charm, sexuality, deep kissing, and beautiful body. :D

You are a beautiful lady who is supportive and shares herself with others (and not in the obvious ways). Your thoughts are helpful and timely and you are also warm and sexy! Can't wait to see more....happy you are here!

I never ever do this to MA's or SP's. plain and simple... its not polite nor tolerated in any forum. I don't understand why people try to do this.

Hello Cerb! Just wanted to make a statement about the Vanier ladies, being one myself. I've been getting asked alot if I am a street walker...answer to that is No! I am not, nor are the ladies here on Cerb. We are service providers, escorts or companions! We are in homes, hotels or otherwise not walking the streets flaunting ourselves for a quick Buck or drugs. We work to support our families, buy groceries pay tuitions and so on. We are respectful ladies who deserve to be treated as such! Thank you!

mmmm lucky me...Emiafish...those big juciy lips that I have so many fantasies about, playful personality, supportive, thoughtful....just *rawr*

Another story http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/07/17/mike-allen-prostitution-charges_n_3611917.html Story states in part while he was President of the local Chamber Of Commerce he wanted the police to crack down on prostitution Also sounds like he is separated/divorced, so why not legally and discreetly see a companion in Canada RG

You make some very good points Kennidi. My biggest concern is that he was representing Canada in another country, and whether we agree with the law or not, he broke that country's laws. Second, and this is only a personal assumption, but I suspect, given his party affiliation, he probably has stated some views that are very contrary to his actions. It would be like a public figure who is very anti-drug getting caught with a bag of marijuana. A harmless, victimless crime, but when you're elected because of your views on controlled substances . . . And for a public figure doing something illegal in another country, he demonstrated an alarming lack of common sense about it. As its been stated previously, there were much safer and much more discrete methods of seeking what he was looking for. He apparently didn't make this decision with the head on his shoulders. Having that kind of rash judgement present in someone who votes on laws and makes decisions spending tax dollars should be reason or concern.

New owners had taken over, unfortunately they do not have the same standards or code of conduct.

As you can see it is not only my advice but the advice of several others senior members on this board as well. What makes you think that you are entitled to just show up and start demanding information and then get your panties in such a wad when we do not trip over ourselves to provide you with everything you demand? Did your mommy wipe your ass until you were a teenager and always tell you how special you were? Newsflash, this is the real world and we simply do not give a shit about you and how special you were to your mommy. Grow up and realize that fact. When in a new place one must always pay attention to the culture and ethos of the place and at least appear to respect those. The new place can be a physical place or a virtual place like this forum. On just about every forum on line that I have been involved in across a wide spectrum of topics, there are always a few posters who have by virtue of longevity or the nature of their posts risen to a senior status. These posters have to be shown at least a little respect or you will get absolutely nowhere on the forum. Show some respect for the culture of the forum, here we provide information and then receive information in return. The majority of the really good information is usually sent by PM once a level of trust is established and to do that you need to post some information in a respectful manner or all you will get is replies like this while I'll get a lot of thank yous and nominations for putting you in your place, just like several others who have done the same to your childish rants have gotten. By coming in here and pissing us off you have just about guaranteed that you will have a hard time getting any useful information out of us. Now tell me did your little hissy fit make you feel so much better that it will be worth the long term hassle of being considered a non-contributor and unworthy of receiving any information that you seek?

Seen her on Friday..Hard body little spinner. cute and sexy...She told me to do anything I wanted...and I did..no anal but thats all we did not do..I would strongly suggest you go see this little sex kitten asap..I will be goin back, again and again...

I just had a wonderful notion. I'd like to recreate the orgy scene from Caligula, but set it in modern times. Then I'd invite all the ladies of CERB, take a Viagra bath and dive in!! It may not make a lot of sense, but damn it sure would be fun!!

Lol just joined and looked at all the photos and videos...I'm definatly at 8 close to 9...and nothing planned until at least 3 days...:( oh well...I'll use "BOB" batterie operated boyfriend :D or better..."magic wand" hehe!

You are such a sweetheart OBG.. It was a real pleasure and honour to have been chosen as your first MA experience... And very happy to know that I delivered great pleasure and was able to show you who I am and what a Sensual Massage is all about!!! Thanks for such an amazing Recomendation! And like I said when we met, I was a bit worried about the length of the session but your genuine and respectful personality really made time fly by.... I am sure you know this... But I want to say it... You have a Friend and I am here! Any time ;-) I am sure Rebecca and Emily also agree with that! Thanks again for giving me the honour and for just being YOU! Xoxo V

So I have read through all the pages of this thread, and would like to suggest that perhaps there is some misunderstandings of intent or arguments of semantics happening. I'd like to propose the following statements, worded as straightforwardly as possible: 1) It is a lady's right to charge whatever she wishes. 2) It is a lady's right to offer/advertise her own specials or discounts. 3) If a certain service doesn't have an advertised rate, no one will mind if someone inquires what the donation amount would be. 4) If a rate is listed or provided, it is in everyone's interest and good etiquette to accept that as the rate. 5) If you don't accept a lady's stated donation amount or make repeated attempts to argue it, you're likely to get an inferior experience at the very least and quite possibly blacklisted. 6) If you insult a lady because she isn't willing to lower her rates at your request, then you should be hung upside down and repeatedly whacked with a herring. There has been some interesting discussion on this thread and certainly there have been points requiring clarification or that people have disagreed upon. But I think at least some of it has been with people arguing at cross purposes when on the main issues I suspect everyone in fact agrees. If I'm wrong and someone does disagree with any of the statements above, please speak up and we can better see where we actually disagree. Cheers all, I'm out!

Well lets discuss the definition 1 The customer wanted to negotiate over the price The ladies set their rate. What is to negotiate. Their rate is their rate, end of story 2 We negotiated a fair price Fair in who's eyes. This lifestyle is a luxury, not a necessity, and stating you are negotiating a fair price presumes the ladies' rates are unfair. Whatever the lady charges is a fair price, it isn't for you, me or any other man to question You ask a lady to drop everything to see you. If you ask her what her rate is for the inconvenience of running to Kingston to see you, that is not negotiating, you are asking her what her rate is. Once she tells you her rate, that is it, it is her rate. You don't negotiate over her price, and whatever price she sets is a fair price. Plus don't be surprised if travel costs are added to. I know with some ladies that I see in Toronto if I stay by the airport there are travel fees just from downtown Toronto added to the donation As a sidebar, assuming the lady is in Ontario, you could always travel to the city she is in to see her, hell all my encounters I travel to see the lady, be it in Toronto, Kingston, London, Hamilton, Ottawa. Not only do I have travel (gas) expenses, but hotel as well so I have a very good idea and appreciation of travel expenses . So if you want her to travel to see you, don't be surprised if her rate is actually higher than posted on her website. And that isn't negotiation, that is finding out what her rate is RG

I've traveled to the USA and had encounters very safely. This MP called up a so called SP on a "online site" as they say which could of been BP or CL who knows, his error in judgement and not very brilliant on his part. Ladies (VIP) down south use more professional sites of advertising or screening it is for their protection and safety. I choose to pay the higher scale to see VIP ladies when I travel to the USA not from a online site like BP or CL. It takes common sense, well thought out planning before traveling to participate with an SP in the USA. I keep in touch with a few of them weekly now :) it's all good ;)

I'm with emily on this....i have only read two pages into this and still have yet to believe this thread has lasted as long as it has. if it was said already...I apologize but would you go into a high end restaurant wanting a steak and saying you could eat cheaper at mcdonalds and have in the past? well great! go get your macdonalds but you will get what you pay for. but dont tell the 5-star restaurant that they should consider lowering their prices because youve eaten for less elsewhere. also put yourself in the shoes of anyone who gives such an intimate service to you and ask yourself how you would feel if someone tried to get you to perform that service for less...just because you guilt them that this is what other people are doing. SO WHAT?? no reason really is good enough for someone to ask you to lower yourself to any lesser standards. as for the Kingston comment....I have had clients ask me to come see them in kingston or outside Ottawa and many girls will agree when we say that we charge for travel time....not LESS....and I'm pretty sure thats the norm. if you have a better deal than that...awesome.....keep seeing that provider but dont try and educate us on why our prices are "wrong" or let one exception make you the expert on "the rules" guys.

Sorry I completely disagree here. This thread has gone on and on, and personally I am sickened by reading alot of what has been written here. I travel ALL across this country of ours and my donations are the same in every city and it is NEVER an issue (I dont offer discounts, not even on multi hours). When I have visited Kingston in the past, I never altered my rate and it was never a problem, so don't go telling these girls that they should change their donation to reflect the lower economic standing in a city, that is complete bullshit. The expenses are still the same regardless to where one travels to, so why would one cut there earning potential to travel somewhere? If you cant afford it save up, this a luxury not a necessity.

solicitation ? I always thought rates were for time spent together? Or for back massage? : )

Ive always been so interested in doing the porn thing as i watch a lot of it myself and tend to film a lot of my own intimate sessions with a significant other (at their will of course) ;P

I think this is a key differentiator between an $80 BP experience vs. what you might get with some of the higher end courtesans on this site. A 'cheap' experience might mean she just lies there and lets you do stuff to her. The kind of experience most of us enjoy is so much more. Personality, chemistry, laughter, cuddling, interesting conversation. We're paying these ladies for so much more than sex and I think it takes a certain special type of person to be able to connect in a genuine way with so many different clients. Edit: This is not meant as any sort of judgement or criticism of "$80 BP girls" but rather a generalized statement that one should expect to get what they pay for. You may very well get a great experience for less money but in general, the world doesn't work that way.

Quite frankly, if you have to haggle over 20 dollars, maybe you should consider that you can't afford to see escorts.

ORIGINAL POST: In the original post (shown above) you decided it was wrong for clients to politely ask. You spoke for everyone on that. Above you state that politely inquiring is the same as ("akin to") negotiating, which you had already named a "not acceptable" action. I disagree. as my last post suggested, I would only find a gentleman rude if he pursued after I clearly stated the word NO. And keep in mind, my entire post was not directed at you personally, it was a general reply to the thread and intended for everyone involved. I felt it was necessary to voice that not all SPs think the way this very one-sided conversation was going. I especially hated this part: Have you been with these women yourself? If not, I would avoid speaking on what you can get for $80. And know that any reply made to this particular comment WOULD BE directly aimed at me as I do offer a "special" at this price once a month. And for those of you who think I should not offer such specials, that this behavior is what leads to "higher-end" (I had to put that in quotation marks because it's not the term I would have used) SPs being "low-balled" then I simply say to you: Until a day comes when anyone tells you that you MUST offer specials, do not presume to tell others they cannot/should not. If "special rates" don't work for you, don't offer them, but your own rules are yours to follow. Yours. And please do not again presume what magnitude of service I (or any other ladies) offer... I am kinda taken back and incredibly insulted by your thinking that your rate alone makes you a "better SP" than I (or other SPs). That was slightly off topic. My apologies. The real matter here is reality. The reality is that unless NO ONE "bends" on prices, people will always ask! DEAL WITH IT! It is how a potential client reacts to the "no" that should classify him as rude/not rude. Again, I do agree with you all that if you advertise your rates, say they aren't negotiable then there is nothing wrong with being angry at the guy and blacklisting him. HOWEVER! Politely asking if XXX service/time is available at XXX amount of dollars should not have created such an uproar. Which I might ad, in conclusion here, is exactly what the OP suggested should never be done. Good day.

Actually, dear one, what we're discussing here is the fact that there really is a rule or moral code that is being broken when someone attempts to negotiate our fees. You may think this is silly or trivial, but we don't. The consequence for most men will be that they're not going to be able to see the lady whose rates they've attempted to challenge. A man may have the right, in terms of the free speech right, to launch a challenge, but he will also have to accept the probable outcome. We, on the other hand, are under no obligation whatever to accept his challenge as appropriate, reasonable or something we should consider accepting, nor are we under any obligation to see someone who has tried this. You see, for most of us, attempting to negotiate our rates is a violation of boundaries and, once someone starts that kind of thing, we know that there's potentially no end in sight. The next thing we know, he'll be trying to pressure for services we don't provide, or to forget using the condom for some things or even all things. He may decide he's entitled to run overtime significantly. Or he may consider that, having our address, he's should be allowed to drop by, unannounced, as "friends" often do. He might see these things as reasonable. Most of us see them as the thin edge of a very wide and potentially dangerous wedge.

...but you nevertheless seem to be putting a lot of effort into convincing them that they should be more open to the idea. That's just an observation, of course. Everyone is free to draw their own conclusions. But does she have the right to judge him for having asked? I think that's the issue where we disagree here; you seem to be advocating consequence-free haggling, and the ladies (and others) are telling you that this doesn't happen. When all's said and done, this really isn't my problem. The SPs here are well-used to dealing with this, entirely capable of deciding what standards of behaviour and mutual respect they expect from a "gentleman", and equally capable of deciding what sanctions to impose on any prospective clients who fall short of those standards. If someone decides they'd like to try haggling and doesn't get to see the SP they wanted to see as a result, it's no skin off my nose. Or hers, for that matter.

Did a tin eye search, 25 matched from something called salespider from Virginia mostly...

I LOVE CIM or a combination where you take things to the edge and then as the yummy hot jism starts to flow you move it from your mouth to your lips and then all around mouth, cheeks etc...painting yourself. Of course you need to scoop and lick some afterwards *rawr*

Quite right!!!! No wiener pics!!!! Really guys, your little fella may be your pride and joy but frankly she has seen mine and it is so much better than yours, really. Plus it's a known fact that emailing a picture of your penis decreases your sperm count and by exposing it to the internet, you could get a virus. Not a Trojan virus because you didn't wear one when you snapped the pic... you should have worn a condom... and now you will have cooties. Penis cooties. The worst kind of cooties. Penis cooties eat your penis from the inside out. You'll be standing there with a happy Johnson and one day it will just collapse in on itself. Fall off on the floor. Your cat will drag it away and eat it. Then your cat will die. Your kids will hate you due to the fact that you killed the cat. Your wife will leave you for a non penis emailing man because you are now a eunuch. You will have a mangina. Your mangina won't be of much use either because the cooties will eat that too and not in the good way. You will lose your job and become a homeless, penisless, pennyless, rotten mangina cootie freak. You will probably end up being run over by a bus filled with men who have never emailed a picture of their penis to anyone. And you deserve it.

OD, what were you thinking? Come on! :sadomaso: You forgot to include in your number 10 that NO lady wants to see a picture of their male junk :obs55:, big or small, shaved or not, in their introduction email ;)

8. Safety first If you are a guy you KNOW that wearing a condom is akin to drinking beer with a straw. It's not as good as without but in the end, it's not that bad. Wearing a condom let's you go home to your significant other and not wear one. It's as simple as that. It also lets your wickedly awesome provider also go home to HER significant other (if applicable) and not have to demand that they wear one. It creates that safe barrier between both of you and the great unknown. The likelihood is that you are both very clean and very safe... but why take the risk??? If I can only make one super serious point in this entire thread, it's this. STDs are ugly. HIV is heinous. AIDS is deadly. Nuff said on dat. 9. Fragrance I know it's aesthetics, but we all like to smell good. Many of us have a particular scent that just works with our body chemistry. Not every commercially available scent is good. Ice Blue Aqua Velva is a manly scent that many of your grandfathers wore to cover the fact that their homes had no running water and that they could only bathe monthly. Aqua Velva, Brut and Hai Karate should not be worn by any man with a birth date after 1919. Bay Rum is used by pirates to kill scurvy and to keep other lonely, lusty pirates away. Anything that you purchased prior to the millennium should probably be used as drain cleaner. Febreeze is not an acceptable cologne. Scent should be used in a delicate fashion. You should be able to smell it only at very close range. Ohhhh... and your twig and berries do not require the assistance of any eau de cologne. No. They. Don't. Spray cologne on your arm. Now lick your arm. Lick it again. And again. And again. And again. Now give that arm a suck... oh yeah baby, that's what I'm talking about.... lick that arm until it gives you the goods... STOP. What does your mouth taste like? That's why you don't spray stuff on your tackle and bait. Ohhhhh... and here's a tip for both ladies and gents: If you are somebody that has sensitivities to fragrance PLEASE let it be known at time of booking. We all want to have a sexy time. Runny eyes, snotty noses and swollen tongues ... not so sexy. 10. First contact. Ohhhh the jitters. You have seen her. She is beautiful. She has two of those, and one of those and a great one of those... she has a beautiful mind, she expresses herself so well.... she's funny!!! She's profound. She's smart. She's perfect!!!!!!! I gotta write her. I have to PM her and ask if we can get together. I went to her website and checked the rates and the menu (like all SMART hobby guys do ;) ) ... and now I am ready to write her. I know what I want... I have the money put aside (thanks for reminding me of that Old Dog!!)... I am .... FUUUUCCCCCCCCCCKKKK.... what do I write??? Dear Alotta Fagina ... I have a 10 inch meat girder pulsing with lusty intent <THWACK> ... you're right maybe I was exaggerating, thanks for the head smack. Dear Alotta Fagina... I have a 7 inch purple python of love poised and waiting for your girl cave <THWACK> ... okay... maybe that sounded a little stalker like, but I do get kudos for being more accurate. Thanks again for the head smack. Dear Alotta Fagina... I have a 5.5 inch throbbing man stick just waiting for you to... <THWACK> ... okay... WTF??? Why do you keep hitting me???? Try "Hi Alotta, I saw your website and would be very interested in meeting you next Tuesday afternoon. Please let me know if that works with your schedule! Thanks, Happy Hobbyist." Simplicity works. You aren't writing a Penthouse letter... you are booking with a professional provider. She knows you are interested. She will see your penis. (There I said the penis word. Whooops said it again.) No need to go into goofy graphic detail... plus when you write that stuff, you get that creepy smile and that's frickin' scary ... stop it now. 11. Bacon Sandwiches. Providers - you know it. Bacon sandwiches save lives. It's not necessarily a deal breaker but I think it definitely would be a pot sweetener if you had bacon sandwiches as a mandatory refreshment at your incall. I like mine toasted with lettuce, tomato, mayo and a little salt and pepper. Cut into triangles, but you don't have to cut off the crusts. MegForFun cuts off the crusts for me but that is because she loves me. Bacon sandwiches will improve your business and will put you that much further ahead than providers who only provide ham sandwiches or cheese sandwiches and much further ahead than providers who don't make any sandwiches. Bacon sandwiches just make good business sense. wait there's more.... later ;)

7. I am cleaning. Can we have BBFS sex? Dear M. Delirious, As a fertile woman, still in her sexual prime, I would be delighted to collect, ahead of time, 18 years of child support, and of course, a generous college and university trust fund for our child. Also, please consider the following as part of our contract: marriage, full salary from you when I am on maternity leave, upscale housing and 25 years of above average spousal support for a stay at home mom who enjoys the finer things in life, plus my regular hourly compensation for every time you would like to be intimate with me. If you would like to discuss our future, long-term arrangement, please contact my lawyer for an appointment. If the above is not a suitable option for you, perhaps the following will be: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condom Still not interested? Learn about what your potential new friends can bring to your life! AIDS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS STDs: http://www.cdc.gov/std/ And here is where you can play Russian Roulette: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=list+of+casinos+in+canada Most sincere and warmest regards, Gabriella xox ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- The short answer to the question is... are you fxxxing crazy?!! ;) Happy hobbying!

I log myself out of facebook chat a lot too. If someone is just like 'what are you doing', and not trying to make plans or ask me about something, I feel like, why are you chatting at me?

Just giving my reason why I do not visit chat anymore. There is eight pages on chat etiquette, any where from a man looking to pull out his penis out to show and tell, OR men asking ladies to show more on cam, back door chat rooms with nothing accomplished other then this 8 page thread on etiquette and complaints about members going into private chat rooms, so I just don't visit the chat room...what is wrong with that? what is out of context? other than my choice of not visiting the chat room? If you visit the chat room enjoy your stay and have fun,this is my own preference of not visiting, but please ensure you play nicely inside the chat rooms.

Megan, sorry that someone had to get his jollies and being disrespectful. I had been in chat the last couple evenings after work, and I had not visited for the longest time, (and I mean a long time) anyways the last 2 nights were totally awesome, great ladies, and gents, good conversation, and good fun while being respectful. The unfortunate part for me is that it is so dam hard keeping up with messages,posts...but I do try, it is fun, so lets all keep it that way. And I found my long lost brother in chat too :)