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So you walk into an encounter assuming you're about to be ripped off? I have to ask: if this is the case, why did you book with her in the first place? If you're going to pay anyway, why bother going to the effort of making the SP you're with worry that you're going to rip her off? What's the point? How does it make the encounter better for either of you? I have no doubt that this is true, although I suspect I'd make the same statement with a rather different emphasis.

That happened to me too a few years ago and since then, I appreciate the envelop at the beginning of the encounter. There is no way I ever want to hear again, while on his way out, "how much do I owe you?" ... tell him the cost for 2 hours-after confirming via email prior--can you say awkward?-- and dealing with the fact that the "gentleman" didn't even have close to what he owed me on him OR have a new client say "sorry, I left the envelop at home or at the office, can I come back to pay tomorrow?" and you guessed it, he becomes the best disappearing act you have ever seen! Under the circumstances, being trusting with a new client or with someone you haven't established a comfortable level of trust with is, unfortunately, not to a lady's advantage and by not receiving payment upfront, it is automatically putting the lady companion in a most vulnerable and precarious situation. On top of this, if you know the lady requires her donation upfront and you decide to show up and refuse to pay upon arrival and when she reminds you of the "let's get he business aspect out of the way first so we can forget about it" and you decide to leave because of it, you have just become a major waste of time on a power trip! Things like this are not up for negotiation. It is what it is because ladies do not want to get taken advantage of. Period. Nothing more, nothing less.

The arguments I have read so far (just skimmed the thread) about not paying ahead of time are ludicrous. Why on earth would I ever trust someone I had never met before to follow thru at the end our our encounter. I would be on edge, anxious and not a heck of a lot of fun; but hey, if that gets you off, guess it's another story!

I'm operating under the premise that the only ones posting fake bad reviews are disgruntled clients who didn't get what they wanted from the sp, even if what they wanted was to pay after the session. :) :p And I'm also operating under the premise that just because a site has a recommendation only policy, it does not at all make reasonable people think that all the recos are fake shill inflated glowing reports. Even on sites that allow the trash and bash fests, there are still lots of good reviews because there are still lots of great sps. I've always been puzzled by someone's negative willingness to believe the bad reports, but not the good ones, even to the point of excluding all the good ones just because one person posts a negative comment somewhere. Are all bad reviews fake? Probably not. But neither are all good reviews fake. Hence the term 'review fraud', and I don't know many sps who haven't been victims of review fraud of some kind or another. A fake review posing as a good one, indicates services provided the sp doesn't offer, increases her calls requesting those services. Causes trouble for her. Why does she want a good review pulled? Because it was giving misinformation. How many sps have requested edits or removal of these kinds of reviews? How about most if not all of them. Additional Comments: It occurred to me that in fact an sp who wasn't paid in advance is very likely to withold some services, or make sure the time ends at the half hour if not sooner. After all, she has no guarantee he brought enough money for the encounter he claims he wanted. He says he wants the full package for an hour, she thinks what if she provides that and he hands her enough for a half hour massage, and says, oops, my bad? This method is far more likely to lead to a short change in services, no wonder he thinks it works for him, I can't imagine too many sps providing the full deal without seeing he's got it with him.

Things have changed a lot since I became involved in this activity. It might have always been this way and I just didn't know the extent of it. There have been local girls who have either been forced out or had to go underground in order to operate. There's no doubt it's jealousy and frankly $$$. On one hand I'm a supporter of the local community but on the other hand like any business if the local community can't provide what the buyers want then they will look elsewhere which certainly seems to be what has happened here. Is it the nature of the beast? Perhaps it is. Too bad as some good providers and good clients will fade way when it becomes too much hassle. Peace MG

It actually does happen in a lot of other cities, however with the Maritimes (Including NFLD) being much smaller in comparison population wise - the amount of BS this year alone is worse than in any other place (see for once Im not bashing just Moncton :) The real problem behind all of this; is jealousy. What most fail to recognize is some of these new to the scene ladies (and some more experienced ones) are far from nice when it comes to other women. (don't get me wrong they will be sweet as pie when it comes to a client) They see any other women who is successful as a threat and resort to childish and immature behaviour ie: fake booking form bookings, endless emails or fake texts as well as slanderous ads on other sites. Dealing with all of these things take up ones time that could be better spent doing many other things. This has been going on for a long while, however as of late it has been getting worse(and not just in the Maritimes). The end result will just mean less reputable ladies visit these cities. It is very expensive to tour, and it is hard enough to stay safe without some crazy causing problems. I know Victoria well enough, to know that if she felt she had to post about this issue publicly - the BS was bad and I don't blame her for not wanting to visit again.

Victoria my sweet, I think what that other SP is doing to you and other SP's is ridiculously childish. Why does She need to worry about competition? If she was offering a service that clients enjoyed, then her service would sell itself. Instead she plays immature games to try and mess with other people. I think that letting her win, so to speak, is a bad idea. She doesn't get to bully everyone. I live here -- and I too have gotten some insane emails lately. More than usual. But I'm not going anywhere... So I just pay no mind and keep doing what I'm doing. You are an upscale, well respected SP. Keep doing your thing. The trash will fade and the pathetic will lose. Xoxo

At the end of the day, a gentleman should respect a lady's policy for payment and if she requests it upfront, that's what he should do. If he's worried he's going to get cheated out of the service, then maybe he needs to research the reputation of the lady beforehand or look at his own behaviour if he feels this is happening to him on a frequent basis. I can't add much to what was already said by Cleo, Cat and some of the other ladies.

I find it disturbing that an SP is trying to destroy your reputation. I hope any gentleman that hears anything negative about one SP from another will stop and ask the very important question: "Why is she telling me this?"

If a client refused to put the envelope down at the beginning of an encounter, I would ask him to leave. Someone holding money over my head for me to perform for them is not a way to make an encounter enjoyable. It would make me feel like he is playing power games. I ask my clients to put the money down before we take our clothes off. You get that out of the way, because do you want your girl worrying the whole time that you aren't going to pay her? It's something I hated at the spas too. THere it was standard to pay after, and guess what, there were a few men who enjoyed my service only to tell me after, 'OOPS, forgot my wallet! Don't worry, I'll come back'. Who wants to guess if they did? Stop comparing us to mechanics. Yeesh. If you are paying a woman to get naked for you, for her to perform intimate sexual acts for you, you give her the respect to pay her first. Do not power-trip and refuse to pay until she performs. I can't even believe someone would think this is acceptable.

I'm in!! All paid up and getting excited :)

Sorry, but just because somebody doesn't want to get drawn into this argument and say they take payment after, does not mean it doesn't exist. In fact I have personal knowledge that it does exist. Not everyone, not in every case, but it does happen. If some client doesn't want to pay you upfront, then you have the choice to tell them to move on. The same as they have the choice not to see you. If an SP for any reason chooses to accept payment after, then that is their choice, and I am sure they have weighed the pros and cons. To suggest otherwise is rather presumptuous. And because they chose not to post on this thread is not proof that they don't exist. Seriously, given the tone of this discussion, I don't think any of them would post on this thread, with you rounding up a bunch of torch carrying villagers to chase the monster into the windmill. Now I wish the thread would go back to the far more interesting and original intent of discussing what kind of contract a client and an SP have.

Do you think maybe those two things are related, just not the way you think? If thanks to your behaviour the session begins with the SP actually having to come right out and remind you about paying the fee before you'll pay her at the start, then some of that "YMMV" you refer to elsewhere may have kicked in... and you may find the session goes a little more tortoise, and a lot less hare. (Plus, it sounds like you'll have decided that since she asked you to pay up front she must not be "relaxed, fun and for real," and you've maybe gone all pouty and ill-disposed. Little wonder things seem to go poorly on those occasions.) Look, the women here take enough personal risks every day in this profession. As clients, one of our first priorities should be to never contribute further to those risks if we can avoid it. One of those professional risks is guys who dick around about the fee -- negotiating, pleading, or looking for a way not to pay at all. The fact is, when you don't produce the agreed-upon fee up front, it's not clear whether you're planning to pay at all. You've imposed risk on your provider where none was needed. I'm frankly stunned you can find anyone who agrees to this arrangement. Treat your provider with respect and remove that particular risk from the equation. In my experience, paying smoothly and up front establishes your own trustworthiness, and helps gets everything off on the right foot. I'd personally be ashamed if I ever considered doing otherwise.

I don't think this is much of a problem here on Cerb. The ladies here are professionals and have their reputations and their livelihood to protect. They have a vested interested in this. But if we are to be fair, we know there are a lot of ladies out there with the intent of deceiving. Just have to read the diary to know this is true. Of course the sp is looking out for her best interests and the client is looking out for his best interests. Don't think anyone is being evil here. I think the best thing guys can do is do their research and make informed choices.

Thanks guys and for sure I will not miss this one

Such good news; thank you gentlemen for this

New quality control testing will be required on drinks. I am up for the task but may need a new liver lol!

I do not know the exact circumstances that lead to the nasty texts but I can definitely tell you that when a lady has pictures available on her website and/or in her CERB albums that asking for more pictures is generally not a good idea; you can easily be perceived as a man who has no intentions of booking and is only collecting pictures. Yes, SP picture collectors are out there. You have to remember and understand that ladies are busy people too and have full lives (and sometimes other work too) outside of this lifestyle. Not every lady is able or willing to become a daily online pen pal with a possible future client.

TEXT YOU ! NEVAR ! What's your number sweetie ? Wait nevermind.... it is in your avatar there Christine ;) I had to chuckle when I read that comment. I did and do text a lot....apparently randomly ? A time waster perhaps but I do show up eventually damnitt :) I like to get to know a lady before I meet if possible and vice versa .... makes for a more chillaxed first meeting and follow up dates. I won't ask you if you give bbbj .... that's for you to know and for me to find out .... but I might ask you if you like Cheez Whiz ! My kinda girl .... but I have had equally good experiences with ladies who keep communication to short and sweet bookings. Go with the gut....Less relaxed perhaps....nervous as fuck actually on first visits for me !! ha But once you meet it is smiles, laughs and shagging and stuff :) Life is good . VJ has discussed the language barrier here and the shorter correspondence. Just the way some gals do business too. Very common and understandable. I was nervous as fuck crossing that bridge to see her first time ! Now I bounce quickly over that bridge on my penis like a pogo stick !! haha ;) Anyhooooooo I do respect your guidelines and parameters ladies .... this thread perhaps opened my eyes a tad bit as to how I operate moving forward. Ramblings from Friendly Manitoba

Yes, my goodness, the cops are the lesser of any problems any sp needs to worry about. And because prostitution is legal, it is perfectly legal for a cop to come and see any sp (although he would probably do outcalls not incalls since incalls are not so legal) I am always concerned about sps who do not understand the laws about prostitution in Canada, and rely on US TV or sites to tell them about it. For those sps convinced that asking that question will help them, keep in mind that in the US LE who do sp stings don't have to answer truthfully, and they can go just as far as those examples shown above, and not be in any kind of trouble at all. No sp is going to complain or report the extent they went to to get the sting done. AND these guys are willing to do it on camera, drop their pants, let the sp touch them, touch the sp, let the sp raise up her top, etc. I've seen them arrest sps who came to them, (in the US mind you), recording the whole thing, and do that, and not once did either of these sps on camera talk about rates and services at any time, but still got arrested. This does NOT happen in Canada. LE is here to help you, not sting you. Even if they knock on your hotel room door, in full uniform, they are there to ask you if you are OK, of age, and not doing this under duress. To the OP, you are giving them a freebie lol. Stop doing that, it could put a target on you as an sp who is green and ripe for being ripped off or worse.

yes, clients would have to be inside the incall location, whether a hotel room, sp apartment or massage parlour room, for it to be considered a chargeable offense. And even then I don't think the clients suffer for that as much as the sp does (loss of income, embarrassment, out of pocket expenses, having to move locations, etc). From what I can see in many LE investigations of bawdy house locations they are looking more for anyone 'living off the avails" in some way, or trafficking, underage sps, coerced sps, etc. And keep in mind, about LE, these are guys who seem to be incapable of reading ads on bp or elsewhere and finding incalls that are mini brothels set up in houses and apartments and staffed by illegal sex workers (as in sps in the country on student or tourist visas that do not allow them to work in any capacity). I have a hard time believing they are capable of knowing who the OP texted, that he went to see an sp, engaged in the legal activity of prostitution, and then followed him home even though all they really needed to do to find out where he lived was look up his license # and stay in the relative comfort of their cars in the hotel parking lot.

The police could, I suppose, treat her using the hotel room as a bawdy house. As others have said, however, in general the police have bigger fish to fry. However, for the client I believe the offence is being "found in" a common bawdy house ... not "having once been to" a bawdy house. For the OP, therefore, I suspect that if they didn't bust in while you were with the lady, then you have nothing to worry about, since you were not "found in" the location. Relax, maybe there is someone operating an incall in your building, or more likely the police have found it a convenient spot to have a nap at night after enjoying a donut. Porthos

" The donation is for my time only..." This sentence says it all. It is always the "hobbyist" that request an encounter and ask the SP to be available for him. And it's a duty for the hobbyist to inquire before he ask what he can or can't expect from the SP. And what happens during the encounter does not rely "only" on the shoulders of the SP. Chemistry, feelings, perceptions, expectations, and so on, between two strangers cannot rely on only one side. So, it is obvious to me that when I request a date with a SP, I will pay before hand every penny that was agreed on. Some SPs will wait few minutes to allow the hobbyist to be sure that he still wants the encounter to happen; but even if this is the practice of the SP, the duty of the hobbyist is to pay the full donation. After all, the SP that has accepted to meet the hobbyist at his request, has already given a lot of time to prepare herself, and has blocked a few hours and may have refused to see other hobbyists.

If this approach works for you and the providers you see, and is mutually agreed-upon, then that is what works for you. I think what is problematic here is that you are advocating that everyone should follow this approach, and that if they do not, then they are being fooled, or ripped off, or that they won't receive the services agreed-upon if they do not pay at the end. If you don't want to see providers who ask for the money upfront, that is your choice, and you will have to choose providers who are okay with this. But please don't advocate that everyone should go against the rules set by some providers -- there are many, many reasons why we choose to ask for the money up front, including ensuring that we ARE getting paid.

Well that's the first I heard of paying after an encounter and still scratching my head over that mindset Starting off an intimate encounter with that much mistrust can't be good. And frankly any lady would be well within her rights to show such a character the door Not only do I pay up front as gentlemen do I now utilize in many cases email money transfers paying for the encounter in full even before I see the lady Ladies take most of the risk in this lifestyle which must be a source of stress for them Why unnecessarily add to their risk and stress by making them during an encounter wonder if they will even get paid A rambling RG

You don't pay for service, you pay for time. I think this is the simple way to look at it. Any letter combo posted by a provider (bbbj, dfk, cob, and so on) mean nothing, the provider and only the provider makes the descion on what services are provided based on the client upon meeting and talking with them in person. Texting, email and PM is a very impersonal way to communicate. A great example a provider a has the power to refuse digits if I have cuts all over my hands for her own and my safety. Posted via Mobile Device

But when you go to pick up your car without paying, they don't give you the keys and you don't get your car back! This is a ridiculous statement to make. I would love to see what would happen if hobbyists started walking in and refusing to pay for service first, I really would. I am a provider that is fairly relaxed about the timing of fee collection and I have been screwed over many times because of it back in the day. Now, I have provisions in place that if a client screws me (without paying), it will bite him far worse than it will hurt me. I can also say that the first time clients that have stiffed me intended to do so before they ever walked thru the door because I have never in my career promised services I couldn't or wouldn't deliver. State upfront that you intend to pay on the back end and see how many appointments you get... cat

Ladies and gents, its now official !! The Ottawa Christmas Social will be held Thursday, December 12th, so mark your calendar!! We are opening the Christmas festivities for 70 members in good standing (35 gents and 35 ladies). Loneskater and I have taken all the comments the attendees have made during the last social to keep improving these events! We are also be holding the festivities at a new venue. Gents, tickets are available at a cost of $35 (payable in person or e-mail money transfer), which will cover snacks, a drink for the ladies and door prizes. You will be kept updated via this thread as things progress. As it's an event organized by and for the CERB community, please contact myself or Loneskater directly should you have questions. Cheers!! MisterT

I couldnt agree more with Phaedrus! If you book a reputable Sp.. Why on earth you would have problem that she doesnt deliver what you want? Of course there is always the YMMV thing.. before meeting somebody we can never guarantee somehing at 100%. If you are not sure about the service you will receive or the chemistry.. Book a shorter appointment.. If it click.. Amazing! If not, move on! Dont book her again. So if you go through the appointment and it wasnt like you expected.. You dont pay her?! You try to kiss her and.. Ohh I dont like the way you kiss so I will just leave? Doesnt make any sense.

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Sex is a sensation caused by temptation, when a man puts his location in a woman's destination, did you understand the explanation or would you like a demonstration?:smile: For those who havent met me,My name is Maya,The GreekGoddess MA ,and Im here to Accommadate your wants,and needs.For those whom met me,well you know me Ive been in this Industry A while,so the experience is limitless... I am an easy going person,down to earth,open minded girl,easy to approach.. My Recos Range from Ottawa,Montreal,and Toronto,basicly,my Greek Ass is known for my talents My Rates i believe is quite reasonable and fair,you wont be disappointed,only happy about it. My description is;Long curly raven black hair,beautiful alluring eyes,olive skin,5'3,nice A&T Curious about XXploring the Greek Islands?PM ME for this... The rates are:50 30mins 60 45mins 80 hr I work Mon-friday 330-11pm! Looking foward to meeting you Gents!!!!! See you soon!XOXO MAYA Call Angel's Touch 613-274-7073 to book your UltimateGreek MA __________________ Call Angel's Touch 613-274-7073 to book your UltimateGreek MA

I think the problem with the word love is that we used that same word to mean so many different things. People say non-sense like love is never having to say you are sorry... that's just nuts. People say, that love is unconditional, but that's often just simply not true and frankly loving someone no matter what is just nuts. In my opinion, "Love" is a bonding instinct works through the limbic system, and that bond is actually pretty stupid. Its similar to an addiction. The limbic system is controls desires, but is a pretty stupid system that can easily get hooked on dysfunctional behaviors (drugs, alcohol, excessive gambling etc.). Love is however very important for survival. Love for example of a child is a bonding instinct that has very little to do with their behavior. A child has to be pretty awful for a parent who loves him/her for the parent to seriously waver in that feeling towards their brats... Good thing too because if that wasn't the case then many young children wouldn't survive past their 2nd birthday... and those that do, wouldn't make it past adolescence. Love of a child can be virtually unconditional when the parent is well bonded to their child. Children can also be strongly instinctually bonded to their parents, but it is not necessarily as strong, and may well not be unconditional. Any parents who has had a teenager will come to hear statements such as "you're ruining my life". But the good parents will still welcome the wayward child back home etc. and the children will move past that stage and come to love their parents with more affection (well that's been my experience with my kids anyway). Romantic love sometimes comes in a similar strength to parent/child bonding and is from time to time irrationally nutty. It can be unconditional, but it sad when its not mutually of that strength. As with the parent child bond romantic love was important for survival during our hunter gatherer days -- at least until at least one of the kids reaches the age of 7 -- an age at which the child has the strength and intelligence to survive and help out his or her mother survive. I often wondered if that's the origin of the 7 year itch phenomenon. Coincidence? Its not as crucial to survival anymore but we are all powerfully motivated to seek out that romantic love. Also that romantic bond is often not mutual and in my opinion its the same bond -- the same limbic system links -- whether is mutual or not. This is because unrequited love has many of the same characteristics as mutual pair bonding... without the mutual bit. Friendship love, if you call it love, is rational, and based on how they act. Its in my opinion one of the most beautiful interpersonal relationships when its respected equally by both, but its NOT really unconditional. That is a friend that betrays ones trust could very well end that relationship. Romantic love and friendship often do coincide. That is the person who one loves as a romantic partner is also, hopefully, someone who you like as a friend. I'm not really sure if I love my wife, but I like her... were friends... and in a sense that's probably more important for why we are still together. Then there is admiration -- not a friendship per se -- but admiring someone of high status, or great importance. We use that same word again, love, to describe a great writer or philosopher or politician or performer of some kinds that we admire. Is that love? Its not typically unconditional because if the admired person proves unworthy, that love will disappear pretty quickly. Then there is the love of pets. That's probably the same as bonding with ones children, but I'm not entirely convinced by that. When my pet fish die... its not a particularly traumatic experience, but perhaps for dogs or cats, that bond is stronger. Calling all these things love can makes talking about relationships very confusing, and its important to specific what one is actually talking about.

Happy Birthday CK Enjoy your day RG

Have a great day CK. Happy Birthday

In Berlin Lounging on a mattress and watching about 10 people getting tied up

a few of the posts before mine tell him he has nothing to worry about since "prostitution is legal" .... which is true in the case of his texting, not so much in the fact that he visited a lady at her incall location. Additional Comments: reply to the comment made on this post: Regardless of his texting being perfectly OK, I thought someone who is paranoid already may appreciate knowing that incalls are illegal.

Happy Birthday CK!! You are one of a kind and very much appreciated for all that you do. If only the Maritimes could clone you! Have a Great one!! Giddy Up... Huge Birthday Hugs, Lexy

Happy birthday, Cowboy Kenny! And thank you for all the work you do to inform us !

Happy Birthday CK from all the sexy ladies at Angel's & Paradise hopefully some naughty cowgirls are in your birthday wishes today!

I've been trying to step back and see your point of view, but I just can't get my head around it. You say "simple, smooth, no issues" but I question what happens if you feel you didn't get what you expected. It's hard not to picture you calculating in your head what % of services you received and only giving that much of the donation. Or if you don't receive everything arranged ahead of time, do you not pay at all? If you don't pay the full donation, then even if you didn't get every agreed upon service I'd still say you were in the wrong. Not happy with an encounter, then don't repeat with that provider. But if you spend the time, then leave the donation. It's as simple as that. If on the other hand at the end you're always giving the full donation amount (as you imply happens above) then I don't understand why you wouldn't leave it at the beginning as most people seem to prefer. Even if you personally have had experiences with ladies that don't mind waiting until the end, can you truly not see how most--even if they don't express it to you during the encounter--would be spending the time worrying about it and be more at ease having the donation out of the way? How it doesn't at least appear like the client is holding the threat of not paying over her head? Even if it's not a power dynamic to your mind, can you not see how it appears that way and would be used as such by others? Bear in mind too that the ladies are always taking more risk than the gentleman, especially with first time visitors. Yes, there are dangers for the gentleman and obviously an encounter may be a disappointment. But compared to how much a lady has to protect herself from it's hard to compare. So as Mightypen said, anything that clients can do to help put a lady at ease, we should do. Doing your research, being respectful, and booking with reputable ladies will do a lot more to ensure a positive encounter than withholding a donation until the end ever will.

Guys haven't been fooled into thinking this is the 'norm', this actually is the norm. It changes the dynamic when the sp is afraid she is providing the service to someone (new or regular) who may not pay her. I am not sure how that 'dynamic' is going to be a good thing. An sp who isn't going to provide certain services, isn't going to provide whether you prepay or post pay, and what are you going to do if you don't get what you believe she promised? Not pay the fee you agreed to pay when you made the appointment? Are you going to have her shout and berate you when you decide you aren't going to pay her what she told you was the rate before you made the appointment? Are you prepared for her to follow you out of the building, take down your license plate, and post your name, # and car on the internet because you ripped her off? or are you simply going to pay her the fee in full. And if you are going to do that at the end, why not just do it at the beginning, and get an sp who is not tense and afraid that she is going to be, yet again, ripped off? I wonder how you think you can get away with that, when someone is charging for her time, and you spent the time with her in full lol To me, the only sps who are ripped off are the ones who accept post pay, and the only guys who are going to rip off sps, look specifically for sps who take payment after. One of the worst things any reviewer can do to any sp, especially if she is new, is mention in the review that she takes post payment. The only exception that i find acceptable to sps who do a post payment method are sps who work in a spa, massage parlour, with others, because the client comes in knowing she has backup, the place has security cameras, and so on. I still think it is a bad idea, and mp attendants still get ripped off due to this sort of policy, but at least there is more than one vulnerable sp in the place with a client who has decided to not pay. Additional Comments: Not every business is like this business tho, and for that matter, many estimates from a mechanic, for example, rarely matches what you end up paying even tho the work done is the same work agreed upon lol. It doesn't matter if they take and put away the payment. It doesn't always matter what they said (or texted or emailed) prior to the booking. You are meeting a new sp, and assuming she did the booking, it might not be true, or it might be she doesn't connect you with the questions she answered before. She might be confusing you with the guy who didn't want DFK. So what you do is face to face prior to handing over the money, is go thru that list of things that got you to the door. Most sps in your area have a money for time set up, not a money for specific services set up, so if you get your time, there is no opening to ask for a rebate. If you don't get your time, or there was an extra charge to go from GFE to PSE (which I take from accompanied showers, DFK and toys could be the case), then you could ask for that amount back. If she doesn't upcharge for toy show, then no, there isn't any amount you can ask back because you have not been charged a particular specific fee for that. you see where I am going with this? Communication gets you to the door, but once you are inside that door with a new provider that you don't know how credible her promises were, you just run thru them again face to face minutes before sessions starts. She can't avoid not providing something, if she promises it directly to you, she can't be confused about who she is seeing who was asking to do more, and who asked to do less, for example.

I have been to the Lord Elgin lots of times without any issues. I am always discreetly attired. I am not aware of anyone else having issues with nice looking visitors.

I only call back if I've missed the call by a few minutes - five or less. If they want a call back otherwise, I'm assuming they will leave me a message asking me to call back. I also have my phone number blocked when calling out, so if I call a gentleman and he doesn't answer, or someone else answers, they wouldn't know who it was that was calling. My most important discretion issues are upon arrival, and I know there have been threads on this. When you come to my building, please don't stand in front of people outside when calling me, and repeat HI CLEO? YES, RING ##, APT ###, because you have just told anyone around who I am and where I am. Please do not bang loudly on my door when you arrive, and don't say HI CLEO, NICE TO MEET YOU! When i open the door. My apartment does not have a soundproof barrier, and any neighbour home will have heard that. And they don't know me as Cleo. Please knock quietly (Or, I usually will be waiting and open the door as you walk up, please don't still insist on banging on the open door). Enter, and wait until I've shut the door before we start saying hello. Once we're in my bedroom we can be as loud as we want, but I'd rather not have my neighbours hear people arriving.

she is hot. if you like a brunette with a nice body, face and attitude this one is for you. enjoy.

The first thing to do is communicate well during the appointment. Maybe she's forgotten some of your favourite details. No problem; bring up the topic of the missing bits with a smile and a laugh, and guide her and the session on the course you had discussed. If you haven't established friendly, positive back-and-forth communication with your provider, then that's your first problem right there. Then again maybe there's some reason why, now that the moment is upon you both, she doesn't really feel comfortable following through. Again, communication during the session is key. Raise the subject in a friendly way to make sure she hasn't forgotten, and if she's not comfortable with X, work together to find another way to have fun that works for both of you. But ultimately, if all of your discussions to resolve the problem fail, then you need to remember that the contract between the client and provider is solely for time spent together in which things will probably happen, but there's never a guarantee. She's a human being, not a vending machine; your money gives you no claim over her body. So all of those details you discussed are requests, but there's never an ironclad guarantee they'll be fulfilled. If you ultimately aren't satisfied with a session, and your conversation with the provider hasn't resolved that to your satisfaction, then just don't go back. Chasing after your money with "but you didn't do X! Give me Y dollars back!" is crass and fruitless. And, last of all: don't compare sex work to other industries. The comparison is always misleading when it comes to these types of up-close human interactions. Your SP is not your mechanic.

Love and sex are two completely different things. Over time our culture has put the two into the same bed, so to speak. Bad idea as 2 people can love each other but have different needs that have nothing to do with the heart. One can love someone, but have sex with someone else and that doesn't change that love, unless you cannot separate the 2. One is an emotion, one is an activity. Your reasons are your own and your question is one I think we ALL ask ourselves at one point or another. Only you can answer it honestly. For whatever choice we are here, most of us are here because we want to be, SP or Provider. There are exceptions of course, and thats when the struggle begins. It is a good question to ask yourself, but is it a reflection of you having sex with an SP, or an SP having sex with you? Additional Comments: In this I have to respectfully disagree. You are talking in completely monogamous terms. The human species was never meant to be monogamous but our culture dictates whats right and whats wrong. If you follow mainstream norms, then yes your statement stands. But who really falls into that category other than sheeple? No rudeness intended, I just disagree, :) C

I have seen Brittany a few times recently and she is absolutly one of the hottest coolest girls I have ever met! I realize this should probably going in the recomendations section but as I am still a new member the system wont allow me too. Brittany is easily one of the hottest girls I have seen in this town by far! Brittany was easy to get a hold of and despite some troubles finding time that worked for both of us. She is so worth waiting for. I also got to see her once with Scarlette and it was one of the best experiences EVER!. I won't go into specifics but all I can say is I'm eagerly waiting for our next meetings. These 2 girls look soooo hot together and a great time was had by all! Great girls allot of fun to be with in and out of the bedroom!!

I think that one thing to keep in mind is that most providers who ask for a reference also have alternative screening methods if a reference isn't possible. So it's not quite the roadblock some have made it out to be. I would also say that it is not the case that providers who ask for a reference are not also paying attention to tone, manner, wording, etc. I do not believe most SPs substitute a reference for their own impressions, so I find it odd that it's presented as though there's this dichotomy - either she uses her gut or gets a reference. A reference isn't an excuse not to think for yourself. I'm sure most girls know that. But as to why they would be requested at all, I think that a very good explanation has been given already for why travelling providers use them, but I would also point out that references can be very helpful to someone new to the industry. It's fine to say that we can go by our gut alone, but generally it takes some experience to hone our instinct. Instinct is not some magical talent that some people have, it's not a sixth sense. It is data gathering and pattern recognition most of the time. It takes time to gather enough data to start spotting patterns and figuring out what sounds like a time-waster and who sounds like bad news. We've all interacted with people all our lives so we don't come at this with no data. But for most girls this is still a new way of interacting with people so they need time to learn. In the meantime, references are a second opinion that can help you figure out if your impressions are correct or not. I know that some people are proponents of the school of hard-knocks, but I think in this business the knocks can be pretty hard. For those who are not so new that continue to ask for references, I would simply say why not, if it has always worked for them? For many gentleman, obviously, it is not seen a hoop to jump through so there is no particular reason for them to change a working model. And, as I mentioned, most will offer to screen by more old-school methods if a reference isn't available. But honestly, the whole debate about references only applies to providers who do advance bookings. I don't see how a provider who takes short-notice bookings could ever be expected to contact and hear back from a reference in time. So I think there are just as many valid arguments to be made for not using a reference. I don't think anyone should be judged for using references, as though they are failing to use their own good sense and are making clients jump through hoops, nor do I believe it's ever fair to insinuate that a provider who doesn't require them is being reckless. I also believe that there are reasons a provider would choose not to give references as a policy. I won't go into them in detail, some have been mentioned, but I don't think it's really necessary to defend. CERB is very positive and I love that things can be discussed and debated but I get a bit frustrated, or maybe dismayed, to see people put down for their preferred (and effective) methods of screening a client.

Lexy902 from the East Coast:bowdown::bowdown::bowdown: