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Who joke about hate-fucking and raping their classmates and colleagues? You're really going to put a 95% number forward for that? Citation please. Nobody here is saying that is okay. What you've identified there is another example of speech that should have consequences. Not a reason why the Dalhousie students shouldn't face any.

There is a difference between drugging and raping women and locker room talk. When 13 guys decide to post about raping women...it gets real in every woman's life. Unless you are a women and have been raped by a man or a mob of men, it's hard to understand. However, women talking about men getting their dick chopped off is not ok either. Ever. It reminds me of my ex husband describing how he's not like a rapist so his crap is ok. Let's understand that ANYONE who is saying rape is ok, needs to be stopped. Whether they are a man or a woman. It is never ok. I have a female dentist because I'm not comfortable being put under by a guy I don't trust. Now I will never go under by a guy for this reason. I'm upset this went as far as it did. The "locker room" crap went way too far. Please don't defend them. This was not "private".

A dentist is empowered to administer powerful anaesthetics to patients. An unconscious patient is at the mercy of that dentist. And the dentist is responsible for the safety of that patient. This is a much more srious responsibility than most face and we have every right to hold these professionals to a higher standard than a group of office workers in a lunchroom. Dentists have been convicted of sexually assaulting patients that were under anaesthetic. This is not some hypothetical possibility...it is a documented reality. Joking about it on facebook shows they are stupid. Joking about at all suggests they are unfit to be trusted around unconscious patients.

If you are smart enough to get into Dental School you should be smart enough to understand that "privacy and facebook" don't really go together... if you post it on facebook you should be willing to accept the fact that anyone may see it And when they do there might be consequences. If these gentlemen want to take legal action against their fellow student who broke the impenetrable privacy they established I will just say... good luck with that. When I entered into this hobby and hid it from my wife and others I understood that there where risks and serious consequences if I was caught but I continued knowing this. If I am outed now as you suggest I certainly will be mad at the individual who outed me but I somehow doubt my wife or the divorce court judge would give much credence to my argument that my privacy right had been breached and therefore I should not be held accountable for my actions. You are right we probably all have thought we would not want to publicly declare... that's why we don't declare them publicly... that's why we don't post them to a facebook group... it's call common sense. See note above about being actually responsible and accountable for our own actions. I don't give a rates a...ss what most people think of my actions but do hold myself fully accountable if my actions hurt others especially the people I love. My position on this all along has been to let the process that the university has in place proceed... the only question in my opinion is what is the appropriate recourse and to be honest that is hard to know based on the limited info we have. Two words... Personal Accountability Just my Opinion Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

They didn't just think these thoughts. They thought about it. Then they went a bit further.... They sat down at a keyboard and typed them out. They shared them with the group. The group discussed the thoughts. Some agreed and expanded on the thoughts. It appears, although I'm no expert on behaviour, that they were enjoying it, were entertained, even aroused by it. Sooooooooo much more than a dirty thought that stays in one's own mind. Just sayin' ps.. it wasn't stupid to start this .. I think we've had a really good discussion. And still are. :)

Not even doctors are expected to uphold their doctor / patient oath with regards to privacy if they feel someone might be harmed if they do so. About the only person they could have disclosed this to and expected it to stay private would have been a priest, during confession. The fact that the facebook group included the school's name makes this hardly a private matter between buddies in a group. They fucked up. And they got caught.

I will call bullshit on that... thoughts breed behavior especially when dangerous thoughts are left unchallenged. Just my Opinion Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

Someone's 'supposedly' totally private, online group, not hosted by the creators, on a social media platform... There are lots of ways to keep something private. This isn't one of them. jmo..

Posting about chloroforming women, specific women by name, and having hate sex (rape to me) with them...that isn't far enough for you to have the university to expel these 13 men. We aren't even talking criminal prosecutions here, just expelling them from university. Or is it more important to you that they continue with their education, become dentists, and in a few years down the road be in a position where they have the means and opportunity to practice what they uttered about doing on FB The real protection of women is far more important than the abstract protection of FB hate postings. If that makes me Orwellian so be it RG

First, are they being denied the chance to explain themselves? It would be nice to hear their side of the story. They are the ones choosing to be silent, and not explain themselves. So all we have to go on is the CBC story and the FB posts. Second was their privacy really invaded? They used social media...social media gets it name for a reason. Only a fool would believe that what is posted on the internet is really private irrespective of the settings on your FB account. The minute you share your thoughts with anyone on the internet you give up any control of privacy. The only way for your private thoughts to remain private is to share them with nobody Third, as of yet, no one, I believe is treating what these guys did as criminal...I may be wrong here. The university is reviewing their status as students and they may not graduate, and Ontario wants the names of those students in case they try to get licenced in Ontario as dentists. It sounds more like some are being proactive, showing concern for possible future patients (and maybe victims)...but that is not the same as treating them as criminals, with arrests, prosecutions and possible incarcerations Fourth, yes it is words they are being judged on. Prejudicial, far from it though. Everyone gets judged on their words. A person's words reflect a person's thoughts. And his/her thoughts control his/her actions. And a person controls what he/she says. These "men" freely chose to post those words, so how can one say it is now prejudicial that those words are used to judge them. With all that being said, wouldn't the university and various licencing bodies, be it Nova Scotia, Ontario or whichever be negligent not taking action under current circumstances. If they allowed these students to graduate and the licencing agencies licenced them, and subsequently they did drug and rape a patient what sort of liability would they face. Put another way, doesn't the university and licencing agencies have a duty to protect future possible patients from students they know have expressed thoughts of drugging and raping women. RG

Good grief. I'm sickened that people really think this was ok. We don't need rape culture to win wars... not that China and Russia have a goddam thing to do with this. I'm actually really, really glad they were stupid enough to post it all on a facebook group that included the school's name. Morons deserve all they've got coming and then some.

I fully support the "expectation of privacy" idea and would fight with you if this was a case of big brother accessing private records and using them against you... that's not what is happening here their comments became public because one of the group exposed them. If a party to the communication makes the communication public then how can we realistically suggest that our rights to privacy are being taken away. Making inappropriate comments on a social media group and expecting that it's private is just silly... this is not personal communication between two individuals it's a group posting. In my opinion we undermine our actual rights to privacy when we try to extend them to things like Facebook groups. Just my Opinion Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

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A thought can breed an action. If anyone has grown up around a misogynistic father who has a son, then the son has son's and you watch them grow, then you'd understand that words can turn into actions and can transform personalities. All human beings are stupid, look at what we are doing to our planet! We all say stupid things. But when the stupid comments are about harming anyone, man, woman or animal, then lines have to be drawn and punishment and consequences given. We must teach compassion and love not hatred and abuse. Many in powerful positions have , I'm sure said worse and perhaps done worse. Lets hope this case opens a lot of ears and eyes and is the start of a new day because if one person listening to them acted out their comment, thinking their behavior would be okay because "soon to be doctors" said it, then that is far to many. On an end note, and I'm sure most are aware, but I'll say it anyways, a guy thinking about wanting to F--k a girl is not having the same thought process as a guy thinking about wanting to R--e a girl.

Why wouldn't you think they would drug and rape. They want to enter a profession where they can in fact have the means and opportunity to do what they post on FB they want to do A person's words reflect his thoughts. His thoughts guide his actions Do you think rapists don't think about rape Dumb rapists just post about their thoughts on FB RG

Really the thoughts aren't that private...anyone who communicates on social media runs the risk of his/her thoughts being seen by people who were not intended to see it. That said, even if the intent was to keep the words private, those words indicate hateful thoughts. And thoughts affect one's actions. Those "men" shouldn't be in a position where they can be alone with anesthetized ladies. Ladies who could be your wife, daughter, mother, sister, girlfriend, friend well you get the idea. These "men" showed everyone who they are. They showed they aren't worthy to be entrusted with a patient's well being Restorative justice isn't the only consideration. What confidence would the public have in the school and licencing agency if they were granted their degrees/licences...not to mention legal ramifications they could face if they granted a degree/licence to one of these guys and he in the future sexually assaulted an unconscious patient A rambling RG

Well I am not sure what these young men said so my comments are not that informed. Generally I kinda feel we should be accountable for what we say and do. When we apply to attend University we accept the rules and code of conduct implied by the institution we decided to attend so it is way to late after the fact to seek mercy when we contrive the expected code of contact. Certainly we are all aware that in our youth our conduct may have at times dropped below a level which we might later in life think appropriate but often this behavior is private and therefore hard to be held accountable for. In the new age of social media and ever present cell phone cams the risks of a one time indiscretion coming back to haunt you has certainly increased. It was my understanding and I may be wrong that the victims of these inappropriate comments wanted a restorative justice approach... if that is true I think it would be an appropriate approach. Just my Opinion Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

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The issue that I have with the Original poster is that he mentions "restorative approach" to work with the women affected/targeted. Some of these women had no idea they were being targeted. And even if they did find out, part of the restorative justice approach is ensuring the victim's interests are protected without being harmed. How do we know that these women would be negatively affected through participation? From a public perspective, the school has a lot to lose by not suspending even in the interim the men involved. And no comparing what women say about men is not comparable as the effects are not the same; effects like misogyny which contribute to violence against women (like rape!). All of this considering the larger narrative of how these comments affect women's rights. Considering the men's interests, I think some sort of shaming/public apology which is informed by the effects of their actions would have been helpful. They don't lose out on their education but still receive some sort of punishment. Suspension doesn't really address the issue as to how their actions hurt the school community and women--this isn't an isolated incident occurring on one campus.

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Well, I really haven't followed this. Just bits and pieces and really have found out more reading your posts on here. Having said that, These guys are idiots for talking about rape fantasies and crap like that on something as public as Facebook. Should they be expelled? Probably, I suppose. Honestly, I don't think it will matter that much. Where in this country will they be able to have a successful private practice anyway? They could get their degree and hang their shingle up in a nearby penitentiary maybe. The inmates will have a ball with them. Okay, I shouldn't make light of this but really, a bunch of indignation and anger doesn't help either. These guys have royally screwed up and they will have to live with it for the rest of their lives. They will likely be punished and so be it. They deserve what they get because of sheer stupidity. I don't condone their actions or statements but I guess I have become desensitized to all the stupid crap people do these days so I just can't be angry. I don't know, let the powers that be deal with it. I don't think there are any chances of dentists doing much these days. Most offices are pretty open and there is always an assistant in the room. It would be pretty difficult to follow through on these things. My dentists office is completely open to the hallway, no doors anywhere. Most modern clinics are going to that design model, I think. Sorry, I edited this a little.

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You are right we all sin and we all judge as you are in your above statement. Some simply do it less, more inconspicuously. Even I know some subjects are just to serious and hurtful to joke about. Even with my foot and mouth disease. I won't state what their punishment should be because I don't have that knowledge or ability. But I have enough sense to know what they did was wrong, very wrong. On a moral and professional level. Should they be punished for life, no, but they should be punished. Then again, ask a rape victim how long it's taken them to heal from their trauma.

I hear you ... but I think that's a lame excuse. Here's why. My son did something really stupid in grade nine. Nobody was hurt, but I suppose someone could have been. Regardless, the act was irresponsible, and although not criminal, most certainly not acceptable in a school setting. He was expelled for the remainder of the semester. His academics suffered. He was shamed. He was punished. In grade nine. 13 years old.

when did they regress into kids? I thought these were fourth year university students. On one hand we're accused of emasculating the western man, and on the other we're overreacting to a bunch of silly kid behaviour.

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No this is the case of them stupidly assuming that a group on facebook had established rules that protected them from being held accountable for their actions. Stepping up and protecting others from inappropriate actions is in fact having standards and if my son or daughter stood up and did that in high-school or anywhere else I would be very proud of him. There is no big brother bully in this story... just a bunch of stupid men acting badly Just my Opinion Sent from my Passport using Tapatalk

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I won't defend them because they were idiots to think FB is private, but otherwise I will defend their right to talk shit about women, because you can't police thought. And anybody who thinks they would actually drug and rape is an idiot.

My question is, does this mean the city of Winnipeg should be charged with profiting from the services of an escort??? And this doesn't really change the law, it's not illegal to offer services, it's illegal for someone to partake of that service.

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Maybe it was the way it was asked...seemed more prying and personal than an attempt to make conversation. RG

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