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In university I took a philosophy class in critical thinking and it was harder than any mathematics course I ever took. It was apparent that most people do not have a clue how to debate and that was evident even with the class after working in teams and believing we had it down pat, all failed our first exam. I believe the debate team in high school only scratched the surface on logical deduction etc. So even if I followed the modality I was taught to a tee, I would be basically be talking to myself or the wall when it comes to dealing with most folks out there. Personal beliefs, ethics, prejudices, misinformation, reacting from emotion often cloud one's belief that they are arguing logically. I choose my battles now in regards to who I wish to engage in discourse because deflection, red herrings, blanket statements based on hate or prejudice just aren't worth pursuing. And to the OP, why is so important to you that you should have the right to debate without fear of of being criticized. I say, if you put it out there, you are not responsible for what comes back, but if you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.

If someone wants to believe in an idea that is really stupid they do not deserve tolerance. Lots of stupid ideas out there that only continue to exist because they are "delicate". It is a shame that debate is not taught in school, or considered a sport as important as football. Instead of teaching students to play silly children's games they should be teaching them critical thinking.

Thing is, right out of the gate you're phrasing the question to demonize views that differ from yours. Read back over your posts. As you phrase it, the only reason people might want to put limits on speech is because they're unenlightened, shrink from debate, and uncharitably out to crucify people. I think your portrayal is itself uncharitable and belittles from the outset anyone who would disagree with you. Pot, kettle. Personally I think that it's reasonable to place some limits on speech in some environments (the workplace and schools, for example) to preserve a civil environment where people are trying to get things done, and counter discrimination against traditionally powerless groups. It's not just fire-in-a-crowded-theatre stuff, but casual expressions designed to demean groups you don't like. Want to do that in your own home? Sure, go ahead. Want to be an obnoxious bully to your colleagues at work about their race, gender, or sexual orientation? Sorry, dude -- you lose. BUT... while I cautiously support hate-speech and hate-crime laws, there should always be specific fora in which anything can be discussed. That way, people looking to engage in fiery debates on hot-button topics have a place to do that without censorship, and the rest of the world doesn't have to put up with it in their daily lives unless they want to hang out in those places.

I think that being able to debate, whether it being on a light topic or a deep one, is very much cultural. I am originally from France, and my friends from France living here and I agree to say that here debating is a very difficult thing to do. Nobody wants to hurt anybody. But there are ways to debate without insulting others, while still being able to strongly affirm one's point of view. So sometimes people mix "debate" with "fight". Hence the first debate TV show that appeared on TéléQuébec years ago, hosted by Marie-France Bazzo at the time - I don't know if this show is still on - that was called "Let's go for some sport!". And the song lyrics of this show were simply: "Let's go for some sport! OK, but I'll stay calm" (hopefully my translation is good enough to be understood properly). For French from France, debating is simply a natural cultural thing to do.

While Canada is a country built on immigration - just like the north american continent has been - our government has decided that immigrants or individuals who became Canadian Citizens - even when they were born here - can be considered just second class citizens when they do not fit in the picture anymore: https://bccla.org/2015/06/its-official-second-class-citizenship-goes-into-effect/ Asked in a very simplistic way: is this right or wrong?

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Love it. :) My favourite is The House on Saturday morning. I love hearing M P 's and Senators put on the spot. They are hilarious when they try to avoid the truth. A few have exposed themselves as true scum. It annoys me that debate has stopped in Parliament. The Tories rarely answer a direct question, and instead they respond with "speaking points" which may be irrelevant. We will see a lot of this in the campaign now starting. Same thing on most news programs about politics, instead of debate we see people ranting about their own agenda and disregarding the topic at hand. Or sticking to a party line that they know is factually incorrect, but the speaker adheres to for ideological reasons.

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Exactly, critical thinking should be taught in schools (a course that, by the way, I am certainly going to take at Queen's University next fall). In debate, there is respect, even in strong verbal and idea exchanges. In fights, there is no respect. In debate, both parts can learn from each other. In fights, there can only be a winner, or a looser. But society looses then, anyway. The ability to debate is a very important motor of a society so that it can grow in a healthy way. No dialog, no evolution. Do you sometimes listen to the CBC Radio show "The Debaters"? (every Wednesday). It is hilarious. For example, a debate can be about: "Which is the better Canadian Icon, the Polar Bear or the Beaver?". This is how we should learn how to debate, about topics that might seem ridiculous and that we don't really care about, even having to defend a point of view that we don't even believe in. Because human perception is not just one. And because there is not just one, a healthy society needs to have the courage and the ability to listen to all perspectives. Although this has to be done with strength, it must also be done with respect. Yes, it is possible.

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Well 3 of the 4 pictures show up in MANY other sites. If that helps...

It is important to remember that scientific ability or intelligence is no measure of character. Plenty of brilliant people are outright jerks. Plenty of not so bright people are wonderful and kind hearted. Watson, one of the discoverers of DNA was a totally disgusting person, but got a Nobel Prize and is highly thought of by many.

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You pose a difficult question. I think it's extremely important for people to be able to both listen to and debate within differing viewpoints about ANY topic. I think it's even more important to be able to keep ones mind open to different views and perspectives and to update your personal ones as you grown, learn and evolve. In this world of "political correctness" I don't think there's room for any of that however. The underlying thought seems to be one of "not upsetting anyone" by limiting what you say and how you say it. Tolerance and acceptance aren't the standards by which people govern themselves anymore it seems. Not to say there haven't been many trends of non acceptance, judgment and intolerance through the years but at least then there seemed to be more of an open discussion/debate where now it's more a "don't talk about that you'll upset someone" frame of mind. I think it's sad that those with differing views or opinions are threatened with violence or some sort of punishment or in some arenas, completely ignored as not important or valuable. Things are definitely broken when it comes to free speech, respect, open honest debate, tolerance and acceptance (in a broad sense). I believe the internet ushered in a new way of doing things as it gave a voice to the masses however didn't give the responsibility that goes along with it.

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I'll throw my own two cents in here, or at least one of them -- since I can just borrow one of them Phaedrus, who expressed a lot about my own state of mind. CERB has served for a long time as a sounding board for my own thoughts about sex and human relations, and other things. And I read attentively and learned a LOT from the other clients and the women who posted their own fascinating perspectives. I found a few months ago that I had said a lot of what I had to say, at least for now. And as Phaedrus mentioned, even the discussions by others seemed to cycle around to the same topics. I've seen that wheel turn a few times now, and haven't been much inspired to post and (probably) repeat myself. Finally, I have some other (good) preoccupations in my life that are consuming some of the energy I expended here. C'est la vie. Some of it has been the new law and in particular the constraints it put on language here. A core part of the appeal here was to "speak" openly about topics seldom discussed elsewhere, at least not in the same way. With the necessary self-censorship and obliqueness, that charm evaporated. The double-think intruded badly into my own ability to generate and express my own thoughts. A few familiar faces have departed, and that puts a dent in things too. But that kind of churn and change is natural, not just here but in life generally. You miss people, but you adapt and meet new ones. So less of a factor than the others. As this post shows though, I'm still lurking. I expect my own wheel will turn too, and I'm hopeful there will come a time when I'm once again motivated to jump in with both feet. I've got only good wishes for the community in the meantime.

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I completely agree with Peachy. For me it has nothing to do with the new laws that I have been fairly silent recently. It's simply that sometimes getting picked apart time and time again just makes it discouraging to participate. The thread about the risks of STI's comes to mind for me, where I felt I had to validate and defend my desire to obtain better information. It's tiring to do that, and not worth the effort. And I've seen it done to many others, where if there opinion doesn't go with the masses, they are berated. I personally would love to talk about more issues and am tired of every thread becoming about the 'new laws'. So I'll start a new thread now and see if I can start a discussion that I am sure will bring out a variety of opinions... Or at least I hope it will

Seriously ? She's a member on this site. Why not pm and ask for clarification ? Peace MG

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