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The Whorephobia that the concept of a hybrid MA embraces is ludicrous and undermines the human rights we are fighting so hard to achieve. An MA that offers any services other than manual release is in fact an Escort, plain and simple. If it goes in a hole, any hole, that is full service. We are all sexworkers, there is no shame in being a full service provider. The issue I have here is ethics, SWs doing things that undermine their peers safety and security. As I explained, an escort (any provider that offers any kind of full service) can offer any services she is comfortable with but it's illegal and unethical to offer them in either a strip club, a massage parlour or club. Nicolette Vaughan clearly explains that in the facesitting thread that she offers both but she works alone and protects each service as individual offerings. I in fact, offer both; with a separate massage spa and a playroom for full service. As a independent escorts, that option isn't a problem because we are not undermining other providers either in price or adding the pressure to provide services outside of the service divide because we work alone AND we are full service escorts. Offering massage or dance isn't a problem as long as we consent to providing the services. Some of the opinions expressed in the OP and in part 2 of the subsequent post are suggesting if a client wants SP services (whatever comprises such) to only see an SP. If a client wants a massage to go to a MP and if one wants erotic dancing go to a Strip Club. I'm curious if any of these providers who posted on the previous thread feel at all targeted or agree with the OP's comments of being a part of or the problem itself? I don't see any reason anyone would feel targeted unless they know they are bleeding barrier divides (providing full service in spas and clubs) thus putting their peers in compromising situations. And if they are knowingly doing that, then they should be reflecting on their business practices and ethical position. They are on the wrong side of this and I'd be happy to sit down with pen and paper and show them exactly why. I guess another comment I don't quite agree with or fail to understand is the rational thinking behind the message stating MP owners/operators should fight for legal right or obtain a permit for providing anything more than a manual release. I may be unknowing so does such a permit exist? Do any SPs possess any type of permit for services they offer and render? Lastly, is the OP suggesting if a Provider offers massage sessions they should only offer this type of session at MPs, so no independent MAs or SPs should offer massage and SPs and MAs shouldn't offer Strip Tease? No, there is no permit to legally operate a brothel. It's illegal in every aspect. It would require criminal charges and pushing it through to a CSS challenge like Terry Bedford did. Then we would need to pray that the gov't in power made it legal instead of taking liberties away like they did with C36. So, the Spas and PMClubs allow full service while masquerading as legal enterprises when in fact what they are doing is illegal. They know what's happening and who it's happening with but they turn a blind eye. Only massage with manual release is legal in massage parlours and clubs. From a legal standpoint, owners who allow full service on site are endangering all of their contract workers if one of the workers is performing full service on site. Everyone in the location can be charged within common brothel laws; even the MA's who don't offer services and clients who don't receive them will charged as if they did and have to fight the charges in court to prove otherwise. From an ethical stance, owners are endangering their MA only providers ethically and legally. Even if they were to cover the legal costs of such fiasco, how do they repair the damage done with having a criminal record? They can't, you can't make the record of the charges disappear. But my concern isn't about the legal, it's about the day in day out abuse that SWs endure because of unethical clients and providers. Legally, independents can work independently and share space in small groups without issue for now but no one can own a business contracting workers and operating full service incall which includes strip clubs, spas and clubs. So, it's really quite simple. Independent sex workers can offer whatever services they are comfortable offering as long as they are in an independent location. Club contract workers, Dancers and MAs should offer what their location is legally in business to do. If a Dancer or MA wants to offer a client full service, take it off site into a separate location at an appropriate time. Not in the champaign rooms, not in the spa massage rooms. I hope this helps. smiles, cat

I work as an SP who offers massage services and have worked in a SC. I am going to agree with Cat. I really wish that while I was working in the SC, I was respected enough by clients and management, to ensure that only SC services were offered and received. The ladies who offered "take-out" made it so much harder for us who did not want to offer FS or BBBJs. Clients would always push boundaries and say "so-so" does it. Management would not care so long as LE didn't find out. Other then that, they did not do a thing to prevent it. If those ladies wanted to escort, they should have just done it like every other escort. When I offer a MA session, I will not allow SP services. Other then some light kissing and maybe a show of my breasts, it is a full massage with HE only. I won't even go as far as a BS because I think if you want the full MA experience you should go to a MPA for it. Sadly, clients, ladies and agents/management are never going to agree and therefore there will be "spas" that are basically incall agencies and "take-out" from SC. And SPs can certainly offer some of the related services of SC or MPA but for me, from me, it is a limited experience because if you want that full experience, I feel you should go where those are offered. I only offer a sample of those as well as my main FS SP session. Having said all that, the facesitting thread brought to light a major issue. Not necessarily about who should be doing what in the business. What was concerning is men feeling that they can "test the limits" by sticking their tongue on a lady's vagina without prior consent. The idea that the best way to get consent is by doing first instead of asking first is the main issue in my opinion. It seems really simple to me - if you want to try something with a SP, MA, or dancer - YOU ASK FIRST. Full stop. You don't try the physical act and wait to be told no. I think that is the shift that needs to happen in society. It has to change from trying and waiting for a no to asking and waiting to receive a yes.

Just a little advice 'Ontherideau' because you are new and your type of general query comes up often with new members. First of all, before making your query, you should have gathered and provided more information about the provider, to make it easier for another member to assist you. Providing the name of the site where the ad was placed along, the title of the ad and the providers name is often insufficient information for another member be able to assist you. Ideally, you could copy the ad and attach it to your query. But often ads disappear along with their links so you should also include as detailed a description of the provider from the ad as you can, as well as the last four digits of her phone number. So even if the link to the ad ceases to exist, someone trying to help you will have something to go on to do so. You really can't expect another member to go fishing on Craigslist for you, to try to determine which specific ad and Jessica you are referring to. Ad titles change, many providers use the same names or change their names frequently, so I hope you can see my point. A lot of contributing members to the board have stopped responding to these type of queries. They expect ,with reason, that the individual will have done their own research and homework first, before making their plea for information on the board. You would therefore be expected to check pictures from the ad using Google image or Tineye, as well as using the phone number to conduct a search on Google for other ads and contradictory information, or links to well known porn stars for instance. If this search points you towards misrepresentation or fraud you know what to do. If the images and phone number point to a potentially legitimate provider, you should then search on Lyla to see if the provider is a member or if a recommendation exists for the same person. If there is no information on Lyla, it may very well be that members will be unlikely to help you, but I guess you could make a query to confirm that. Lastly, because of the extremely high percentage of fake ads, fraudulent pictures and descriptions and Bait & Switch cons, on both Craigslist and Backpage, you should really consider going solely for providers who already have a web presence, have a website, are members of Lyla or have been recommended on Lyla. Few Lyla service providers would advertise on Craigslist, but a few reputable ones do continue to advertize on BP because a lot of potential clients continue to use BP as their primary source of information, and these clients are probably not Lyla members. Some clients may think they will get a better deal on Craigslist or BP, but that is rarely the case and low cost providers often provide poor service. While not an absolute truth, it is almost always true, as they say, that: ''You get what you pay for!''. Many tears and much ink is spilled on the subject of negative experiences on those sites, not mentioning the hundreds and hundreds of dollars flushed down the drain due to Bait & Switch situations or other types of fraud. Buyer Beware! If you really want to have a good time with a lovely women, I suggests you stick with the wonderful and reputable women of Lyla, who have all have track records of satisfied clients and who assist clients by posting much usefulinformation about themselves on their Lyla profile and posts and often on personal websites, Twitter and other such sites. Lyla also has recommendation type reviews you can look at to guide your selection of your SP or MP. Or you can contact the provider directly through the site if you have any questions her ads, profile and websites do not answer. But read those sources carefully first to learn about the provider and her services, so as not to annoy the provider from your first communication. Providers must do a million things to keep their businesses running smoothly, and they don't like having their time wasted, just like you! And the more energy they spend fielding unnecessary queries, the less time they have to prepare for and offer their unique and very special services. Hope this helps!

I spent some time with her today and enjoyed myself. Pics are her and recent. Posted via Mobile Device

@phaedrus - Yes, in Ontario at least the legal standing is that HE is legal in a spa but the spa needs a municipal business license which are limited in number and grandfathered in. This is why private members clubs have started. There was a spa who took on the legal fight and won years ago. I agree its in human nature to push and be self centered but it doesn't mean we have to. We can do better and we need to. Anyone who believes that their wants/needs trump all else consistently contribute to the abuse SWs experience as a whole. Each and everyone in the industry needs to realize that or else things will turn. Out providers will eventually start considering legal options. I've sat and listened to multiple no brand Dancers and MAs discuss it and the truth is that these women make up the bulk of workers in the industry. It would only take a small number of these women cooperating with LE to ensure industry wide disruption due to legal entanglements. Trust me when I say it's being seriously considered here in Ottawa so LE may be highly motivated to start book throwing. @WIR I'm unsure where the conversation here could be considered uncivilized. Perhaps if you point it out, those who have offended would I'm sure be happy to apologize. Of course Phaedrus was clear, concise and on point. He is an exceptionally considerate, articulate and self aware man. I would expect no less from him in any conversation and we have had more conversations over the years than I can count. As for your comment regarding MAs contributing here, perhaps you are unaware of the way the spas work. Most MAs don't participate on the review boards accept to post ads, it's the owner/managers that are active and I don't expect any of them to step in here given their unethical business practices. I'd be surprised if 15% of MAs have ever read anything other than their own review threads. Providers choose Spas to maintain their anonymity, having an online presence in the sex trade is at best uncomfortable for them, participating in threads isn't one of their pastimes. I think what you are missing is that if any provider chooses to offer services, they are welcome to do it. They just should have the decency to respect the service divides. Any contract worker that provides extras are escorts so why don't they just go work for an escort agency? It makes no sense. Please trust me when I say this service bleed is resulting in acts that are in fact sexual assaults on a daily basis and rest assured, there will be backlash sooner than later. I'm unsure why you can't grasp that what I'm saying is that service bleeds has led to sex workers being regularly assaulted in these venues. You can't deny my claim and I can actually back it up with proof. I'm trying to inform this community that there need to be changes because there could be serious legal fall out coming. Why you insist you are standing on the high ground is disconcerting and speaks to the attitudes that lead to this problem to begin with. Being the problem is a truth whether you choose to see it or not. Even if you haven't crossed a boundary, your attitude empowers those that do. I appreciate you are entitled to your opinion just as it's my right to explain why your opinion contributes to the violence workers experience in this industry. As for the judgement statement, the fact that I am in this industry and I'm immersed in it wholly means if I can't speak to the aspects of the sex trade that are dangerous, who then can? Who is suppose to try to protect and ensure workers aren't violated but the workers themselves? Are clients to be our protectors, the voice of reason here? Many could be, judging from the pms I've received; they understand what I've been saying but I don't have anything to be ashamed of being a sex worker and being non judgemental doesn't mean "anything goes". Rapists, sexual harassers and boundary pushers aren't the weird, creepy guy living in secluded safety of his mothers basement. It's anyone who thinks their behaviour is acceptable after being told it isn't and anyone dismissing or denying violence is happening after being told that it is happening. I think that's a fairly simple concept to grasp. And I'm trying to tell you, it's happening. I'm unsure how to make it any more clear. smiles, cat Additional Comments: This is exactly the issue, it's a good read... http://www.myajc.com/news/local/cheetah-dancers-allege-sexual-assault-top-atlanta-strip-club/6udoC3nhtw2JXJM9uzv3vJ/

First I don't know what you would feel this discussion is not civilized but I will try to continue the discussion anyway. To the first bolded part, I believe I can speak as an SP because I was a dancer. So if I have experience from both sides. There are many SPs who were in massage and changed as well like I did. So that is why I feel I can state my opinion on both. To get to the point about services offered. SP services are Full Service. That does not mean sex. That means everything including sex. That means the possibility of massage, striptease, sexual services, dinner dates, social outings, overnights, companion trips, etc. I don't know how better to explain it but escort services include MA and SC services. You don't go to a MPA for a striptease, you don't go to a SC for a massage. I don't get your confusion on this. Most escorts, however, are like me and only offer those services in a limited fashion because personally, I want to focus more on the intimate sexual acts vrs the teasing. To the second bolded comment, I don't see where there is judgement happening expect regarding discussion of consent. And as you have stated everyone is entitled to their opinion. Not to mention that some opinions about men licking vaginas of MA's without prior permission are just that. Opinions, not judgments. At least not in my opinion. You are free to disagree. However, I will ask directly, do you think it is okay to do trying for a sexual act first and wait for a no, or should men ask first and wait for a yes?

WIR, I was going to do my best of answer you last night . However I see now that cat has already done so . Probably in a more clear and concise way. Aren't we lucky to have her!!

Johnny, I looked back at your earlier posts too, and I think part of the difficulty with them is it doesn't come across like you've clearly stated in prior communication your intention to proceed with certain activities. You say things such as letting a lady know that you "like to please", "I state before that I enjoy it", and "I never state it has to happen". I'm not sure that's the same as asking if an activity is allowed. And phrased like that, I don't think the onus is on the lady to say it isn't or assume you have an agreement. Especially since clearly many MA's think it not part of their profile. Can you see how MA's--who have chosen specifically to offer an MA experience--may rightfully assume they don't have to proactively say No? That implying you like something and not getting a No is not the same as getting a Yes? Based on what people are saying, some MA's may indeed be open to discussing/allowing more. But clearly many do not and view such activities as outside their role. If indeed the line is blurred, is it not that much more important to be certain beforehand rather than potentially misread the situation? I think the issue here is you believe you have asked permission and been given consent, but that is not clear. Even in your own words it sounded like you thought it was, at best, implied. Comments like "if a lady leads me to it...", and "I've always taken it as an invitation especially if I told her I like it..." or "There have been times when the lady said during the booking 'no' so I wouldn't even dream of tempting my luck". Can you see how that comes across as not having clear consent or prior agreement, for otherwise how would it ever be "tempting your luck?" Why need to wonder if it was an invitation? How would it ever "backfire?" Maybe this is not how you meant it. Maybe it was a poor choice of words. But phrased the way you did it's easy to see how it reads as pushing boundaries and not "false advertisement".

you are known Mystique, although i never had yet the pleasure of seeing you. i considered lately but only saw adds in the rub section. It is unfortunate that some..hmmm, how shall i say..hagglers, cheapskates? try to barter your wages. This industry is not a dollarama. I've heard some dudes try to get as little as 20$ off??? really, if you are so strung out that you have to barter for 20$ then you have no business seeking SP's. I've always been of the thought that rates should not be negotiable. If you want to see a lady, then accept her restrictions and rates and be respectful. It's really puzzling to me to try to figure out why one would barter rates. Seems to me that if you manage it then you set yourself up for an hour (or HH) that will only bring the minimal out of the lady because she will feel demeaned or worse that you are just cheap and don't deserve much attention. If on the other hand, you respect all she asks, are nice, clean, presentable etc...you might find on occasion that a little extra TLC will go your way. Just my 2 cents. But i digress, i've heard often that Ottawa appears to be the city of hagglers which is unfortunate and puts us in a dim light. Are guys here that cheap? Or maybe they are thinking of the next 2 beers they'll buy at the strip club, who knows.

Hi All: I was wondering who you would nominate (always some YMMV I suppose) for a provider of outstanding passionate kissing with lots of tongue play. I will say right now my nomination goes to JessyCeleste, but I would love to hear yours as it's is something I am always seeking.

You got to take this with a grain of salt. Most of these bills are only turned into law for political gain and rarely enforced. Websites and social media platforms won't change the way they monitor users and will continue responding to complaints. They will only contact law enforcement in extreme cases. The U.S. is already more severe/hypocrite on the matter. Another law created to pad a resume won't do much impact there and even less here. They should be a bit more concerned with the application of current laws and keep sex offenders out of Congress, the Senate and the White House.

Thank you Cat for bringing up this important conversation. I still remember when I provided massage rates. I would explain to a client that this was a happy ending. One client in particular said "I don't want intercourse" a number of times. So I thought he understood. However, as I was massaging him, he lifted his head up and licked my pussy. I stood back to use body language that this was not ok. As I again went to massage him, he did it again. I stopped and said "it looks like you want full service. Daty is not included." He again said "I don't want intercourse". So, his opinion is that full service means intercourse. My opinion is full service means any of my openings. Mouth, pussy or anus. I stopped saying no Greek and spelling out "no anal services" because so many thought that meant their penis. However their finger or tongue were ok. There is a push from clients for more and more for less and less. I do notice that the prolific reviewers typically rarely are ideal clients. It feels to me anyway that there are those that view sw's as a piece of meat they can use as they wish. Ideal clients are clear on boundaries. Consent must always be enthusiastic and continual. On both sides. So many providers grit their teeth and don't speak up during a session where the client has crossed the boundary. I've seen this myself, so know it happens. As a client, please make sure boundaries are clearly defined BEFORE the session begins. As a provider, please don't allow clients to get services from you that you don't want to provide. You have the right and obligation to say no. Clients must also speak out when they hear other guys say things that are clearly not ok.

She is legit and uses good hotels, so no safety concerns. Service was amazing. She is a very nice girl with a great personality. The second time I tried to see her, we made arrangements and she was no where to be found when I showed up. No response at all. I see she posted another ad and I think she is in a different hotel. Maybe something happened at the last one. I would still consider her a good choice, even though I experienced a no show. I will be giving her another call at some time when I have a chance.

@WIR What on earth would entitle you to think I'm unhappy? Only an assumption on your part; rest assured. You bowing out is appreciated given your inclination to dismiss and deny by claiming what I've said to be simple opinion. Again, that is the problem at hand I've been trying to address. Have a lovely Christmas and may all that you put into the world come back at you 10 fold... smiles, cat

Needs more bacon.

@Jessica Rain About, "do you think it is okay to do trying for a sexual act first and wait for a no, or should men ask first and wait for a yes?" Of course I don't think it's okay! Yes, clients should always ask first. @cat It's unfortunate you feel as you do at the moment. It's nearly the Holiday Season, be happy! To both Jessica and cat This is what I stated on my previous post, "I'm not looking for or intending any type of back and forth unless in a civilized manner." I didn't mention nor do I feel it has become uncivilized anywhere on this thread so one should not feel any need to apologize. As for this thread generally of opinions, I'm now seeing the same opinions being expressed over and over again by the same members so I will agree to disagree with some of the opinions here. As such, I'm removing myself from this thread at the moment. Cheers,

I'm not looking for or intending any type of back and forth unless in a civilized manner. Phaedrus made ultra valid points on his post in regards to exotic love. His points are well stated and well written in a very respectful manner that would make even Plato proud. I realize MAs who don't offer more than a HE may also agree with the points made by the OP and in the subsequent post. Other than that, I only see SPs posting on this thread having an issue with who offers what services. I will use this term in the most respectful manner possible, sincerely. Why does it appear that only SPs are seemingly the ones feeling entitled to offering what they feel are SP only services yet at the same time feel they can offer massage and strip tease? Even SPs do/offer/render HEs yet opinions are being made that this is all MAs should offer. I don't agree and I've only had two MA visits. Like Phaedrus stated; if this makes me a "bad person", a part of or the problem itself in thinking this way, so be it. :) We are all entitled to our opinions. My personal belief on all of this is that between fully consenting legal adults, regardless of gender and number of participants (in or outside of the industry), will never be free of opinions but should be free of public judgement. In the end, as previously stated by GoinDown, who are any of us, all being in this industry, to publicly judge anyone.

Hey - I am traveling into toronto late tomorrow - looking for some recos - someone preferably with a killer ass!

Happy Holidays :) I am available this afternoon starting around 2, till about 8 this evening and tomorrow (Wednesday) 11am-7pm. I offer a fun and safe relaxing experience in a private discrete location on the southside of Fredericton. My rates for our time together 120 for 20 min 140 for a Half Hr 170 for 45min 200 for 1 hr email or text [email protected] Hope you have a great and happy day :)

I agree with Misha 223 respect goes a long way. The provider has set her rate and that should be what she is paid. If she wants to offer you a discounted for what ever reason that is her decision...

Amazing, going to read again once I find my glasses

went to see Megan, I can confirm too what inthenavy72 has posted above. Easy location, accurate pics, and a friendly pup :-)

Hi Gentlemen, I'm your private dancer, Beautiful, Erotic and Oh-So Exotic... Let me entertain your body and spirit... I'll be dancing my at Barefax afternoons/evenings December 11th, 13th, and 15th (Today, Wednesday & Friday) 4 pm - at least 9 pm perhaps later... Located at 27 York St (in the Market) See you there! Contact: http://www.LuxeMulvari.com

While the desire to ''get the most bang for the buck'' is understandable and legitimate, it should never involve pressuring or manipulating a provider to work outside of her comfort zone and boundaries, and must always involve clear and informed consent. It used to be that hockey players could just about kill each other on the ice, because it was considered a game, and as such outside of the purview of criminal prosecution as it was interpreted until relatively recently. As we all now know, the interpretation of the same Criminal Code today has resulted in a small number of hockey players being charged with assault. Following the ongoing Tsunami started by the Weinstein affair about sexual harassment of mostly women and what may be considered adequate consent; the societal goalposts have moved significantly on these issues. We can assume that the courts will interpret the laws on sexual assault and reasonable consent more stringently in line with the movement of public opinion in that same direction. The interpretation of laws by men and women who sit on the bench are guided by legal precedent, but also somewhat by the majority views of the population. I would guess that if we had taken the same survey of a random sampling of Canadian adults this time last year as we would today today, the views against those who sexually assault women have hardened significantly in that short period of time. And I would argue that the movement on that issue continues to move toward against any form of sexual harassment or assault. One only has to look at the Anti-harassment codes in the federal government, where an unwanted touching of a colleagues shoulder may result in a loss of employment. And such codes do not consider the intend of the accused when he touched his secretary's shoulder '' as a gesture of appreciation'', but more on how that gesture made the woman feel and whether she had consented to that specific touch prior to it happening. We can argue that the code makes it far too easy for false accusations to be made, but that is the direction such codes, regulations and laws are being written and interpreted. We can choose to ignore the shifting of these tectonic plates governing relations between men and women and act however we deem appropropriate, but the risks of such an approach are increasing quickly. So testing or pushing boundaries with a provider to see how far we can get, may now open that client being charged and convicted for sexual assault. But, more importantly, from an ethical point of view, the payment of money for sexual services should not in any way change the way we view consent and respect in our relations with SW's . Drawing on the arguments made by Cat in this regard, nothing should be assumed by a client when meeting a provider and unambiguous consent must be sought and obtained before doing something not already clearly agreed to. And even if agreed to beforehand, a provider may decide during the meeting to restrict certain services for a number of reasons, hence the expression YMMV. I would argue, that we men are able to know when we are about to go too far with a SP, MP or dancer. I can usually sense it by body language and facial expressions. I have known providers to give a physical signal, such as turning away or impeding access, which should be a clear enough signal we have already gone too far. But by that time the harm has been done, and a provider may legitimately feel that we have acted disrespectfully. Now, as clients we are happy when a provider is enthusiastic and shows warmth and genuine affection. But if disrespectful behaviour by clients occurs as little as 10% of all SP's and MP's appointments, let's say for argument; the emotional burden and suffering from being disrespected day after day, over a long period of time, not knowing when it will happen next, by potentially hundreds of different men; may have a cumulative effect that will force some women to quit the business, others to break down physically or emotionally, and for the majority to become hardened and more wary from these negative experiences. I don't know how we as clients can expect all SW's to be carefree, enthusiastic, and always horny and raring to go, if we know that they are subjected to demeaning behaviour on a daily basis. I don't know anyone who is subjected to disrespect in their workplace, if only by one person of authority, over a period of time who does not suffer greatly from a lack of self-esteem and and end up either severely depressed, forced to leave their job or worse. And this type of client-provider abuse must be serious and pervasive. One has just to look at the tweets of random providers to see how bad the situation is. As clients, we either bite the bullet, accept this is today's reality and actively do something to stop it, or we can continue to be a big part of the problem. While I would never think of the majority of men or male members of this board to be disrespectful in the way I have described, but we can still be active and part of the solution by supporting SW's rights and improved working and health care conditions, and by calling out other men who brag about how they pushed a vulnerable provider to provide the maximum mileage at the minimal cost and got all kinds of extras that she initially said she didn't provide. They should no longer find any website, bar, club house, locker room, water cooler or man cave where such pride in committing sexual assault will be tolerated, never mind encouraged. It will take guts and commitment, but change sometimes come one conversation or tiny action at a time. And for those of us who admit to have been disrespectful and taking advantage of the situation with SW's in the past, it is never too late to make amends and promise ourselves to do the honorable thing from now on.

She is real and a nice enough girl. I think the pics are older and she wasn't exactly my type so I wrapped our session up early. She wasn't rushed in anyway and gfe.

I feel that while Lyla was affected by legal changes, it has successfully adapted and continues to thrive despite those changes, as it continues to meet the needs of the vast majority of its members. Yes there were some inevitable growing pains for the board when the new and faulty legislation was introduced to control sex work. New rules were quickly introduced on the board, restricting the use of certain vocabulary and postings explicitly referring to sexual acts. Yes, we lost a few members along the way. And yes a number of other members became more circumspect or reticent to post their recommendations and other views. Initially the pendulum had a negative effect on the board as it swung towards caution and less openness between members, but as in other life situations when major change occurs quickly, the pendulum has begun to swing back gradually towards renewed openness and sharing between members. The one exception might be, that it is only a minority of members who now share recommendations about their experiences with SPs and MPs they have visited. That is an unfortunate and worrying trend for Lyla's future growth potential; as recommendations are perhaps one of the key elements drawing new members to the board for the first time. But, Lyla has survived and found new strength thanks to the common sense leadership at the top by our tireless and infinitely patient Mod and by the hundreds of its members who support him/or her and his advisors. Growing pains do not happen without, well ''pain'', disagreements and frustration along the way; but these things gradually have a way of working themselves out, as they have done amazingly well on our board. Client members continue to realize that Lyla is the only place on the internet where they can easily find many many beautiful and reputable SPs, MPs and dancers of all shapes and sizes; offering services just about any man could dream of. Most of these providers have positive recommendations under their belts (on in their sexy panties) and provide a wealth of information about themselves, their services and their personalities. You can also get to know them by reading their useful threads and postings on Lyla. Other sites, which I will leave unnamed, are expanding minefields of frauds, misrepresentation, B&S, money down the drain, mountains of regrets and seas of frustration for their many clients, known for their incessant whining and gnashing of teeth about how they were deceived and robbed of their hard earned income. It's like the guy, stumbling down the steps of a seedy bar in the wrong side of town, at 3 in the morning, who decides to take a leisurely shortcut down the darkest alley around; who when he is mugged and has his wallet stolen complains bitterly to his buddies tear drops spoiling his full mug of cheap beer. Boo hoo! And all the queries and discussion about such disreputable sites on our board is largely negative and unfortunately takes away the well-deserved and more logically attention, which we should be investing towards the legitimate and reputable providers who are members of Lyla. Not just our attention and interest, but our ongoing patronage too! In the past I have also contributed to the discussion about those other sites on Lyla, but I will cease to do so now! Lyla is also unique and irreplaceable for its members for another important reason. It is the last bastion of respectful, frank and civil communications and information sharing between sex workers and their clients that I know of in Canada. While discussions get out of line once in awhile on Lyla, I have found that to be the rare exception and not the rule. When things get a little too personal or out of whack; invariably a member will step in diplomatically to call for a truce and a return to harmonious and friendly relations. And mysteriously and magically -- poof, the tiff is over. Lyla is a recommendation board and not a review board as we all know, which sets it apart from all of its other review based competitors. While some members would prefer the green light to speak up about negative and/or disappointing experiences; a view I first held when I joined the board; after a few years of observation, participation and reflection about the day to day and long-term of goings-on of the board; I am now convinced it was a very wise decision by the founders of board to discourage negative content and commentary. This simple and yet radical decision has ensured that the board and its content did not degenerate into the cesspool other sites have become with their constant backbiting, personal attacks, open hostility, disrespect and extreme misogyny towards sex workers. Lyla is the only such board I have found on the net, which while not perfect by any means; collectively strives for a higher level of civility and camaraderie that is sadly in decline in almost every corner of our society! It is also a wonderful and diverse resource of helpful information for clients and providers alike, about sexuality, humour, real life experiences; as well as advice on movies, food, accommodation, travel, technology...and on and on. Every day I go on the board, I am gobsmacked by the intelligent, thoughtful, informative and altruistic commentary by many senior members and by others doing their small part in making this a better, safer and informative place for all than it already is. I have learned tremendously from you all and from your generous contributions, and I thank you all sincerely for this gift! Long live Lyla I say! Don't focus on its few and insignificant defects and instead celebrate the overwhelmingly positive and progressive influence it continues to have in improving the understanding, respect and common interests between our many beautiful and amazing SPs, MPs and dancers; and the majority of us extremely handsome, charming and irresistible creatures of the male species! Nor do I wish to ignore by the preceding comment, the many other permutations and combinations of sexual and/or sensual intercourse and expression, nor the equally charming, intelligent and exceptional human beings involved in such pleasant advanced mathematics! ''Vive Lyla....Vive Lyla Libre!''...as Charlie DeGal once declared from a Quebec city balcony in the 1960ies....or something to that effect!

she's legit ! easy location to find. pics are very accurate ! will say this ( I'm a dog lover ) she has a puppy and Megan does put her puppy in her kennel.... still a little on the loud side... cute puppy too !

Caterina, the spirit of your post is very well said and your points absolutely valid, but in Lycrathong's defense I don't think he personally argued or even meant to imply a woman's absolute right to her body or her restrictions should be compromised for the sake of business. There seemed to be a number of conversations going on, and I believe he was responding to a couple sentences in one specific post. Whether that poster meant to imply enjoyment played no part and it is only about the money I don't want to theorize about, as I don't mean to distract things from what is a worthwhile conversation. There is a very important discussion happening here, but I think some comments and posters are perhaps getting crossed, and to be fair to Lycrathrong I don't think it was any of his posts that implied doing anything without prior and explicit consent. More generally: This thread started with one quarry and evolved into something more. I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing, as there are issues ladies face on a daily basis that--as much as us guys may wish to think otherwise--we can be blind to. When so many people speak up about an issue it's worth taking a step back from what your gut response might be and try to listen to the intent of the argument and the experiences being shared. As hard as it can be not to feel defensive or attacked, one can try to understand the frustration women are feeling and rightfully expressing. Self reflection and consideration of these kind of issues is important, especially for those of us that take part in this. Hopefully we can keep listening to each other with empathy, to really hear and try to appreciate the experiences and frustration being shared. And to do better.

You GO Girl!

I really appreciate some of the comments by the ladies in this thread. I might be a "semi good guy" maybe. I've always stayed within the boundaries during my encounters with sex workers when they've been clearly defined. That's a given and strive to find out what the boundaries are before engaging. On the other hand, when things aren't clear, I have gone ahead without getting a green light and now realise more than ever how wrong that can be. Although, in the heat of the action I have stopped and asked for consent and stopped when told to, has to be. In any case, to me, the woman's comfort is more important than mine. In fact I'd rather be told that I'm acting like a dumb ass than not. From now on, I have to remember, bottom line, consent is the key. No "weinstein" for me.

Congratulations, YAY!

Day 32 without smoking. It feels great to be free and I know this time I will succeed.

This thread was grossly hijacked. If you all would read the original post by "Lycrathong" as follows: "Looking for good recommendations on a massage with facesetting included. Preferably Asian." as posted in the massage section... CLEARLY stating he would like a massage in the massage section with a preferred additional service added. This used to be a heavily moderated act on this board what happened? I'm not disrespecting peoples arguments/points/narratives but why is Lycra being attacked here? The amount of projecting in this thread is unbelievable. DoM

It might make things easier if most clients actually read anything worded in a backpage ad. ;) Rather than chasing down a local newspaper, most of us thought a website would fix that pesky "Is she real?" wonderment. All teasing aside, some kind of verification would certainly help but the issue is that girls who don't have a website usually aren't inclined to do so... smiles, cat

I am fairly new to this board and hobby. And I just do not get this thread at all, I am an older guy, and my parents taught me to respect women. (they taught me to respect everyone, every race and every gender) Respect is very simple, listen and adhere to what is being told to you. If you respect women then crossing their boundaries should never ever happen! No matter what you may think, if it is discussed in previous exchanges and the answer is no, then quite frankly NO MEANS NO, and to violate that is akin to assault on any level. Even if it was not discussed, do not assume anything. Making assumptions simply means believing things are a certain way with little or no evidence that shows you are correct, and you can see at once how this can lead to terrible trouble. In Short, if not discussed don't do it, if discussed and not allowed, don't cross the line. SM007

This thread is really upsetting, and I want to thank all of the service providers (both massage attendants and escorts) that have participated in it. What saddens (and enrages) me most is that what some of the clients in this thread have admitted to doing is something that happens all of the time, even by 'well-intentioned' and 'good' guys. So many men, in general, 'test their luck', push boundaries, and assume they can 'give us compliments' (cat calls), 'touch us' without our consent (a form of sexual assault), or 'have sex with us' because we 'were asking for it' (rape). My boundaries are clearly stated on my website. I don't offer anal play on me, ever. Yet quite frequently as a man is going down on me he will lick my asshole without asking me first, or try to stick a finger in my ass while we are doing 69. When I react badly, they say "oh, but your asshole looks so inviting" or "oh, I didn't realize that", or "but it looked like you were enjoying it." This has happened with clients who have amazing references sometimes. Guys simply don't realize that it is NOT OK to do this without asking first. Furthermore, sometimes, when I've reacted badly, they've actually tried to do it again. In the times that this has happened I have stopped the session and simply stated "if you continue doing this, even after I've said no multiple times, I want you to realize that what you're doing constitutes sexual assault." They lose their boner and go home feeling like I'm an angry feminist, and I don't give a fuck. Any sex worker can offer any service they'd like, as long as those services are negotiated in advance and consensual. Don't assume complacency is consent. On my website I say I don't offer anal play on me, but if I didn't stop the client they would continue, and this is still a violation of my boundaries and constitutes sexual assault. Not all sex workers feel comfortable saying no to clients because they fear reprisal, bad reviews, or an escalation in the assault (licking my asshole could turn into raping me, if I protest too loudly). Please seek out ENTHUSIASTIC consent from sex workers you meet. Never "test your luck" or assume you can do things without pre-negotiating first. Also, don't assume that all sex workers are good at negotiating consent face-to-face. Make ALL of your desires known BEFORE meeting with your sex worker of choice. It took me a long time to feel powerful enough to say 'no' to men who were doing things to me that made me feel uncomfortable. Women, in general, aren't taught how to do this. Keep that in mind.

Having had the privilege to indulge in the pleasure of the passionate kisses by both Jessy and Parker (on separate occasions), I join my name and tongue to nominate them as Super Sensual Kissers who can take your breath away!

I have met both Jessy and Parker and agree that they are both great.

There's also Avah at club cmj which is very tall. Her profile says 5'11". :)

It's been discussed before but my vote goes to two ladies JessyCeleste and Parker

JessyCeleste is a very good nomination! She is fantastic at it. Topic had been discuss previously this year, here.

Same thing out west. Most use the other boards and most don't even know about lyla. I wish more used it.