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Ya, I was talking about Federal Law, not the Ottawa or Ontario regulations. I know that some places are officially sanctioned by the City and others have worked around that. The fact that the two are wildly inconsistent simply reflects how screwed up the whole sorry mess has become. The problem here is that we live in the world we're in, and we have to deal with human nature as it is. There are plenty of decent people out there, but there are enough assholes to be a problem, and that won't change. That issue is by no means unique to this industry. We have to collectively figure out what to do about it. To go off on a slight tangent for a moment... from my perspective, one of the most striking things about all we've heard since Weinstein is that general and non-specific descriptions of abuse have been replaced by specific ones. The power of that transition is not to be underestimated: a specific accusation by one person against another, even if it isn't then followed by many others backing it up to demonstrate a pattern of behaviour, is far more persuasive than generic statements that really bad stuff happens. That transition can't happen here as the board rules prevent it, but... I get the impression that the latter part of your paragraph above alludes to the possibility of providers pursuing prosecutions against clients for sexual assault, or worse. Is that right? If so - and being fully aware of that old saw about being careful what you wish for - would it be a very bad thing if that shoe dropped? It would *really* send the message that no, you can't do this, and there will be consequences if you try it, and the days when you could get away with it are over. I'm sure that would change the calculus for those who may feel inclined to try. And it would replace the general descriptions of abuse with specific ones. Of course, that's not something to be done lightly, and the law of unintended consequences undoubtedly applies, but I can see how it could be to the industry's long-term benefit. Additional Comments: Bearing that in mind... Perhaps we also need to try and get away from terms like "full service". Clearly defining boundaries is great... but it relies on everyone understanding the same thing by the words used, and if that isn't happening then there will be problems even if everyone's trying to do the right thing. Please, nobody try and hijack this thread with a debate about what GFE means.

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Thank you Cat for bringing up this important conversation. I still remember when I provided massage rates. I would explain to a client that this was a happy ending. One client in particular said "I don't want intercourse" a number of times. So I thought he understood. However, as I was massaging him, he lifted his head up and licked my pussy. I stood back to use body language that this was not ok. As I again went to massage him, he did it again. I stopped and said "it looks like you want full service. Daty is not included." He again said "I don't want intercourse". So, his opinion is that full service means intercourse. My opinion is full service means any of my openings. Mouth, pussy or anus. I stopped saying no Greek and spelling out "no anal services" because so many thought that meant their penis. However their finger or tongue were ok. There is a push from clients for more and more for less and less. I do notice that the prolific reviewers typically rarely are ideal clients. It feels to me anyway that there are those that view sw's as a piece of meat they can use as they wish. Ideal clients are clear on boundaries. Consent must always be enthusiastic and continual. On both sides. So many providers grit their teeth and don't speak up during a session where the client has crossed the boundary. I've seen this myself, so know it happens. As a client, please make sure boundaries are clearly defined BEFORE the session begins. As a provider, please don't allow clients to get services from you that you don't want to provide. You have the right and obligation to say no. Clients must also speak out when they hear other guys say things that are clearly not ok.

I simply do not understand why anyone who would want to meet someone who would want to offer an unsafe service nor someone who would devalue themselves by offering themselves by negotiating their advertised rates. Yes....red flags! But if certain punters are willing to take the risk then these women will continue this dangerous practice and expect the rest of us to conform. It's simple...block the jerks who contact yòu that do not have respect for what you offer and move on. I know it's frustrating and I understand your plight but some people just need to push the boundaries to feel that they àre in control. Sad.

Hi lady and gent, Is it me or low baler and people asking for bare sex is more and more frequent? Is it me who is becoming less patient or it becoming a real problem? Just today I block 5 person from asking bare sex or/and barging...on top of people not reading ad !!! Sorry guess just need to vent a little.

I totally agree have been an SP for many years off and on. But in the last year this negotiations and or asking for Bare everything has become out of control. I have never been asked these two questions so much but in the past year. My guess to why is once one lady offered it than it all began to fall apart. This industry was a diamond on a ruff before it became so main stream. Now i do understand if a SP wants to give a regular client a deal once and a while but for someone you never seen before to ask you to cut your already reasonable rate in half is ridiculous. It really is becoming so frustrating but hopefully as time goes on we can fix things to accommodate the rest of us who still take pride in what we offer and do a good job at it. Sorry rant over!

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The big orange bigot has his moment in the sun. I expect the experience is about to get more interesting.

I spent some time with her today and enjoyed myself. Pics are her and recent. Posted via Mobile Device

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Postponed :)

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@phaedrus - Yes, in Ontario at least the legal standing is that HE is legal in a spa but the spa needs a municipal business license which are limited in number and grandfathered in. This is why private members clubs have started. There was a spa who took on the legal fight and won years ago. I agree its in human nature to push and be self centered but it doesn't mean we have to. We can do better and we need to. Anyone who believes that their wants/needs trump all else consistently contribute to the abuse SWs experience as a whole. Each and everyone in the industry needs to realize that or else things will turn. Out providers will eventually start considering legal options. I've sat and listened to multiple no brand Dancers and MAs discuss it and the truth is that these women make up the bulk of workers in the industry. It would only take a small number of these women cooperating with LE to ensure industry wide disruption due to legal entanglements. Trust me when I say it's being seriously considered here in Ottawa so LE may be highly motivated to start book throwing. @WIR I'm unsure where the conversation here could be considered uncivilized. Perhaps if you point it out, those who have offended would I'm sure be happy to apologize. Of course Phaedrus was clear, concise and on point. He is an exceptionally considerate, articulate and self aware man. I would expect no less from him in any conversation and we have had more conversations over the years than I can count. As for your comment regarding MAs contributing here, perhaps you are unaware of the way the spas work. Most MAs don't participate on the review boards accept to post ads, it's the owner/managers that are active and I don't expect any of them to step in here given their unethical business practices. I'd be surprised if 15% of MAs have ever read anything other than their own review threads. Providers choose Spas to maintain their anonymity, having an online presence in the sex trade is at best uncomfortable for them, participating in threads isn't one of their pastimes. I think what you are missing is that if any provider chooses to offer services, they are welcome to do it. They just should have the decency to respect the service divides. Any contract worker that provides extras are escorts so why don't they just go work for an escort agency? It makes no sense. Please trust me when I say this service bleed is resulting in acts that are in fact sexual assaults on a daily basis and rest assured, there will be backlash sooner than later. I'm unsure why you can't grasp that what I'm saying is that service bleeds has led to sex workers being regularly assaulted in these venues. You can't deny my claim and I can actually back it up with proof. I'm trying to inform this community that there need to be changes because there could be serious legal fall out coming. Why you insist you are standing on the high ground is disconcerting and speaks to the attitudes that lead to this problem to begin with. Being the problem is a truth whether you choose to see it or not. Even if you haven't crossed a boundary, your attitude empowers those that do. I appreciate you are entitled to your opinion just as it's my right to explain why your opinion contributes to the violence workers experience in this industry. As for the judgement statement, the fact that I am in this industry and I'm immersed in it wholly means if I can't speak to the aspects of the sex trade that are dangerous, who then can? Who is suppose to try to protect and ensure workers aren't violated but the workers themselves? Are clients to be our protectors, the voice of reason here? Many could be, judging from the pms I've received; they understand what I've been saying but I don't have anything to be ashamed of being a sex worker and being non judgemental doesn't mean "anything goes". Rapists, sexual harassers and boundary pushers aren't the weird, creepy guy living in secluded safety of his mothers basement. It's anyone who thinks their behaviour is acceptable after being told it isn't and anyone dismissing or denying violence is happening after being told that it is happening. I think that's a fairly simple concept to grasp. And I'm trying to tell you, it's happening. I'm unsure how to make it any more clear. smiles, cat Additional Comments: This is exactly the issue, it's a good read... http://www.myajc.com/news/local/cheetah-dancers-allege-sexual-assault-top-atlanta-strip-club/6udoC3nhtw2JXJM9uzv3vJ/

I work as an SP who offers massage services and have worked in a SC. I am going to agree with Cat. I really wish that while I was working in the SC, I was respected enough by clients and management, to ensure that only SC services were offered and received. The ladies who offered "take-out" made it so much harder for us who did not want to offer FS or BBBJs. Clients would always push boundaries and say "so-so" does it. Management would not care so long as LE didn't find out. Other then that, they did not do a thing to prevent it. If those ladies wanted to escort, they should have just done it like every other escort. When I offer a MA session, I will not allow SP services. Other then some light kissing and maybe a show of my breasts, it is a full massage with HE only. I won't even go as far as a BS because I think if you want the full MA experience you should go to a MPA for it. Sadly, clients, ladies and agents/management are never going to agree and therefore there will be "spas" that are basically incall agencies and "take-out" from SC. And SPs can certainly offer some of the related services of SC or MPA but for me, from me, it is a limited experience because if you want that full experience, I feel you should go where those are offered. I only offer a sample of those as well as my main FS SP session. Having said all that, the facesitting thread brought to light a major issue. Not necessarily about who should be doing what in the business. What was concerning is men feeling that they can "test the limits" by sticking their tongue on a lady's vagina without prior consent. The idea that the best way to get consent is by doing first instead of asking first is the main issue in my opinion. It seems really simple to me - if you want to try something with a SP, MA, or dancer - YOU ASK FIRST. Full stop. You don't try the physical act and wait to be told no. I think that is the shift that needs to happen in society. It has to change from trying and waiting for a no to asking and waiting to receive a yes.

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Met her once over a year ago. She's a mature clean plus size lady with nice soft skin, large breasts and hosts in a small clean apartment. Her English is a bit limited with a thick Asian accent, but written communications are much better. Her massage skills are soft and basic but still quite relaxing. The choice of finishing touch varies from hj to fs and her rates are quite reasonable. If you're fine with her description, you'll likely enjoy her company.

Shd looks gorgeous. Does any body have any recent info?

This may sound a little strange, but would it make sense for people posting services on BP to include a picture of them that features the current edition of the newspaper from the city in which they are located? This would take an extra 5 minutes, but think of how many potential issues this one simple act would instantly put to rest (i.e. authenticity of photos, age of photos, actual location, etc.).

He never stopped campaigning and spends more time on Twitter and golf courses than actually working on his policies. If he won, not sure anyone told him. LOL

Additional Comments:

it sure is fripple weather today ! :(

When they clearly offer adult services, yes. But when they try to maintain a reputation as serious health professionals, it gets old very quickly. A few years ago I met a Chinese woman giving Thai massages. The real thing and not the body slide. Before the session she vented a little on how many calls she was getting from men who wanted sex and were clueless on what a real Thai massage was. I could definitely understand her point of view.

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I PMD you. I had no messages yesterday that I didn't reply too. unless they are rude, asking for B B F S. or asking for 40$ service.If I didn't reply there must have been a reason. I pride myself on my excellent customer service and I reply to everyone if I'm not being disrespected. Im a busy girl and I don't text during appointments. That is very rude, you as a client should respect that the most. Have a great day

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