JoyfulC

I can't comment on the porn industry since I long ago decided that it wasn't for me. I have done a fair bit of amateur stuff for friends over the years -- and I have heard that these days, there are many female operated productions -- but back in the 70s when I first looked into it, it seemed to me like it was mostly about men trying to exploit that which god never gave them, and giving the women involved the smallest cut of the pie. (Even though, without the women, it wouldn't have happened.) Yes, you'd mentioned that many times. But I think you are perhaps making more of it than is really there. For one thing, I probably could be said to offer GFE and PSE type sessions. Still, if someone asks me up front about it, sight unseen, more often than not I say no too. And I don't really think it's hurting my business all that much. I find that legit customers don't usually get into all that explicit stuff in advance because they realize, as we do, that it's pointless. As you say, who knows what will happen when two individuals meet? Perhaps it's a matter of semantics. But like that guy last night? I'd have written him off about 6:15. ;) That's perhaps why it's not a good idea to commit to (or ask someone to commit to) anything sight unseen. BUT I also believe firmly that this is a service, and if you cannot give the customer what he wants, you shouldn't take his money in the first place. Yep, the anus does carry bacteria -- and unless you're seriously ill, it's the bacteria that mutually co-exists with us, and without which human life would not be possible. Trust me on this: when a mouth and an asshole come together, the mouth is always the dirtier of the two. But that said, washing or wiping -- like housework -- can be done quite well or not so well. To think that none of the fecal matter from your ass ever finds its way into your labial area is silly. Yes, your deep vagina is self-cleaning -- but that's not usually where DATY occurs. (But if you meet a guy who can navigate such depths, PLEASE! Give him my number! :-p ) ..c..

Yeesh, what is this? High school?? Analingus is a pleasurable form of sexual teasing. Many many guys do it to me (including physicians and others in the health care field) -- probably 90% of the guys who go down on me do it -- and I'm not at all embarrassed to admit that I've returned the favour many a time. If it feels amazing to me, why would I want to deny that same pleasure to a partner? Myself? I'm a sexual adventurer. I insist that my partners be human, adult, clean, and consenting. And of course, I will note that I am waaaaaayyyyy more selective than many of my friends in the business -- including you, Carrie. When you tell me about some of the people you see, I guess I can't blame you for being extremely restrictive and clinical. Hell, I wouldn't touch a lot of those guys with a 10-foot pole -- but I guess they've got money, and someone has to service them. Further, there's no greater risk from analingus than there is from DATY, considering the proximity of the vaginal and anal orifices. If someone's keeping herself clean enough for DATY, then she's clean enough for analingus too. If you wouldn't consider putting your mouth on a woman's asshole, then you should perhaps rethink DATY. One hundred years ago or more, oral sex of any kind wasn't all that appealing because we simply didn't have the facilities for personal hygiene that we have now. But we do have them now. My advice to anyone, male or female, professional or amateur, is if it doesn't seem clean in any way, run like hell. SPs should be clean in their person and their environments. If you meet an SP and her place is a hell hole, then you'd be a fool to think she has higher standards for her personal hygiene, regardless of what she claims. Buggernaut, can you be serious? Frankly, I always thought it was a bit hypocritical for an SP to only do certain things for extra pay. Either she's comfortable with it or she isn't. No one should do anything that he or she isn't comfortable with -- but too, if someone has a very narrow comfort zone, perhaps sex work isn't for her. ..c..

But there's no reason for anyone to "sweat" except those who are abusing the boards to attack and torment people. When I ran Lyla's List, I put it right in the user agreement that anonymity was a privilege, not a right -- and that person's violating the user agreement could expect to have their information turned over to their ISPs or the proper authorities. And there were times when I had to do this. When someone repeatedly disrupted the board or attacked other participants, I turned over my user agreement and the offending posts to the ISPs and let them deal with it as they saw fit. Hilariously, we had some troll who used to post as though they were an underaged girl looking to get laid -- the IP came off a federal government agency server. I did warn the poor guy, but he continued posting and ultimately, in a case like that, I had no option but to turn it over to the police and the server administrators. (One thing you can't afford to be unclear on is your stance on sex with minors.) I'll admit that I did see one unfortunate case where someone sued a board. The person who sued is a friend of mine, but so was the board operator. I empathized with her feelings, but I still feel that she was wrong to sue -- as much for herself as for anyone. The case was settled -- but only because the board op was advised that it would be more costly to fight and win than to settle. She takes it as a victory to this day. But frankly, I think we all lose in a situation like that. ..c..

No, I'm not looking for that business model -- but then, it's not the retailers selling goods for a few hundred dollars looking for that action, it's the credit cards. Guys can -- and DO! -- get cash advances from the ATM machine to visit. But you're absolutely right. People quote the "average" costs today for housing, transportation, clothing, food, communication, etc. but built into those "averages" is a lot of luxury spending. Don't think that isn't lost on me when some guy is telling me I'm the best one minute, and then complaining to me how much the overruns on his kitchen renovation or landscaping or the cottage he's building cost. I notice too that my clients -- guys who are used to luxury -- all manage to find the $$ for nicer cars, technology, vacays, etc. My husband and I (admitted "thrift terrorists" since long before it was trendy to be so! ;) ) have bought three new cars since we were married in 1983. The most expensive one was a little under $13Gs. No airbags, no ABS, no a/c, no power windows, no moon roof, not even a radio. Definitely no status. It was basic transportation -- and yes, the cost of basic transportation has at least doubled since the early 80s. But the "average" price one of my clients spends for a new car isn't for basic transportation -- it's for the status, the luxury, the performance, and all the bells and whistles. So nope, the argument doesn't hold water that people simply have less disposable income these days. They have it for anyone enterprising enough to charge them. Unfortunately, for whatever reason (probably much like those I outlined a couple messages back), we as an industry failed to ensure our rates kept up with the cost of living. I'm not blaming the guys. It's entirely our fault. And if we get the chance, I hope we won't make that mistake again. ..c.. (PS, and Carrie, you know what? I think the airlines have made pretty much the same mistakes we have all along. And it's killing them. It will be interesting to see what happens to them over the next couple years.)

Then how, exactly, do you explain the consumer boom and recent unprecedented levels of spending on entertainment, recreation and luxuries? We're just coming out of a phase in which people had tremendous amounts of discretionary income -- and perhaps some of it was due to credit -- but they had it and were spending it. When some guy walks in with a Blackberry and he's wearing a gold watch and Tommy Hillfigger (sp?) underwear, and all Land's End clothing, sorry, I'm not buying that he just doesn't have much discretionary income. I don't dress like that because I'm too cheap! (and I don't even have a cell phone ;) ) ..c..

Simon_Templar and Misterdynomite30, yes, I seem to also recall that pre-internet, another wave that hit and offered a major alternative to traditional services was the phone sex phenomenon. So perhaps there's something to be said for new technologies offering cheaper alternatives that have watered down the value (if not the demand) for our services. Buggernot, with respect to Boomers being less likely to participate. I am one myself, and I prefer to work with others of my generation. I haven't noticed much of a slowdown. If anything solutions such as Viagra have increased their participation, and the enhanced financial stability of senior clients makes them a better bet, even during downturns. I will note, though, that in recent years, it seems that there is an unprecedented amount of interest from younger customers (20s and even teens) who have never been married. Traditionally, men in this age range have shunned professionals, preferring the challenge of attracting women on their merits and not their wallets. Traditionally, prostitution was the solution of men who weren't really free to pursue casual relationships, and preferred the proscribed nature of encounters with us. (You know the old saying, they pay us to go away?) I chalk up the interest from the young 'uns to the rampant consumerism and too-easy credit of this past decade -- but hopefully those conditions (which haven't been very good for us!) will wind down, and young men will go back to chasing tail the old-fashioned way. Dummpy, could it be that you've simply journeyed through and sampled various rate strata, and not the other way around? Yes, some girls do come in low and hop up a level or two as they gain confidence or realize they can do better. But it's not as though those levels didn't exist all along. Last summer, in the Ottawa section, someone put out a notice of a very attractive woman giving a great service for $30. Let's hope, for her sake, that she's figured out that she can do better. But if she's charging $250/hr today, then that doesn't mean that rates went from $30 to $250 in 9 months. (I still think putting together some stats on rates for advertisers here is a good idea -- you say you're a paper pusher. Wanna help? ;) ) As a business, we have gone through some substantial technological and sociological changes over the past thirty or so years. But too, I also know that our business is different from many in that many SPs tend to be young and/or only in the business briefly; we tend to come to the business with all the same stigma-based preconceptions that anyone else in society has (I was certainly no different); it's easier to start right off as an independent these days, which -- while it spares many from being exploited -- also prevents many from learning from the experience of those who've been around longer; often a new independent's most plentiful source of information comes from the customers and she is a bit alienated from other SPs; and many operators lack any solid business training or background. I am inclined to think that, despite whatever else might have affected our business, that collectively we have managed ourselves poorly, for the reasons above. This is why the rest of the world is marching on, and we're being left behind. I'm not sure we can do much about it, though. As some of you may have noticed, we SPs tend to be a hard-headed bunch. ;) And many are in it only to surf a little quick cash, but when it starts feeling like work, they're gone. (...not that I'm suggesting there's anything wrong with that -- I suspect this is also what keeps the business fresh -- but back in the day, most such girls worked for agencies and never made it to the independent stage where they'd get involved in setting their own pricing.) I dunno! Maybe we could put together an MBA for SPs or something. Demand is still healthy, and we still seem able to attract a healthy supply at the moment -- although I suspect that's because, for the moment, we still have a reputation for being a good paying business. Few of the women I know today who've been in the business any length of time cite the money as the reason they stay in the business -- and most of the women I know who've left the business over the past ten years or so have cited disappointment with earnings as a reason for leaving. What happens when we lose the lure of good money? (Which, frankly, we haven't so far only because of an enduring stigma.) In the future, as Dummpy suggests, perhaps the best service will be had in "exotic locations" (...a euphemism for third world country?) where "luxury service" can be purchased for dirt cheap rates because the service providers live in an entirely different reality than their customers. The reason I think this is important now is because (call me a doomsayer), I think our whole economy might possibly reset itself here over the next five years or so. If that happens (and in general, I think it would be a good thing), it could give our business a second chance. I suspect that rates will start out lower -- and our customer's disposable funds will probably also be lower -- but hopefully all our costs of living will also be lower, AND we'll have the opportunity to manage ourselves better from that point forward. It's a possibility! ..c..

Yes, it is a slippery slope. Whenever we see something like this, the spectre is always raised of dissidents being carried off in the dead of night for having expressed anti-authoritarian opinions. But all of us who participate on boards have also witnessed vicious, fairly well-organized attacks -- on both individuals and the boards -- for no other purpose than shit-disturbing. Our industry boards are distinguished in that the advertisers who participate have no real expectation of anonymity, whereas non-advertisers can choose how much to reveal. It's an ideal set-up for trolls and troublemakers. But that said, I've seen little evidence that any of the antics have actually led to injury beyond severely upsetting someone. There've been claims of ruined business, stalking and such, but I personally haven't witnessed (or experienced) that. It seems like most of those hardest hit by the trolls eventually emerged stronger for the experience, and with their credibility more intact. So it's tough to say. I checked the site (freedominion.ca?) out briefly yesterday. I guess it's supposed to be some "conservative" site. I'm a little once-bitten/twice-shy on those who bill themselves as "conservatives" lately. If anything or anyone has been defamed in recent years, it's probably true "old-school" conservatives. Those who parade themselves as conservatives these days -- Limbaugh, Coulter, and this idiotic Gutfeld character -- seem like anything but "conservative." ..c..

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2009/03/25/tech-090325-anonymous-posters.html?ref=rss (Apologies if this is already posted.) ..c..

This is yet another complication of the American Taliban mentality towards the sex industry (... uh, make that sex in general). For whatever reason, there's still some persistent and influential notion south of the border that society must police morality. It reminds me a lot of the old Jim Crow laws which sought to do an end run around emancipation and the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution. Culturally, people just weren't ready to accept racial integration, and so they lashed out with state and local laws, and business policies to accomplish a comfortable level of segregation. It was another hundred years before American culture came up to speed -- and some might argue it still hasn't, in pockets. ..c..

Dummpy, I'm not saying that our rates "haven't kept pace with expenses" -- I'm saying that they froze in time. What other job or profession in North America has experienced no appreciable movement since 1982? I don't think there is any. So we will have to agree to disagree on this one. I half wonder if discussion of rates don't make some nervous. I'm not suggesting that our rates should dramatically increase overnight -- nor am I even suggesting that there wasn't a good reason for the stagnation. Since I don't know why it happened, I can't say that it was a bad thing overall, eh? Perhaps -- as with print magazines/newspapers and local TV -- we're being slowly phased out as a viable industry. For example, on a smaller scale, when I was younger, we used to do something called "freelancing" -- this was an upscale version of streetwalking. Basically, we got dressed up attractively (but modestly), went out to hotel lounges, ordered virgin drinks, and managed to make dates with guests staying in their rooms. It was very common back in the 70s -- but I doubt you see much of that now. Why? Well, for one thing, in the 70s, a single woman sitting in a hotel lounge could only mean one thing! A guy could wink at her, buy her a drink, mutter his room number as he sauntered by without having harassment charges brought against him. But these days, it could just mean she's there on business and wanted a drink. Further, the hotels are less eager to tolerate prostitution pick-ups in their lounges (even if discreetly) now that they have more female business travelers. Back when the lounges were mostly filled with single men, couples and us, it was no big deal. But in this case, it wasn't supply and demand that changed -- but rather a social dynamic. And overall, although it deep-sixed freelancing, it was a change for the better. You can't have it both ways. On the one hand, you point out that wages in other jobs haven't increased as much as expenses -- but are you looking at us as a wage or an expense then? We can be defined as both. And still, our rates have been stagnant for decades, while the rest of the world has moved on -- evenly or unevenly, but they've at least moved. We haven't. Further, that argument isn't cogent considering the consumer frenzy we've been through in recent years. If people had less disposable income left over after meeting their basic costs of living, then how exactly did this whole phenomenon happen? (..yeah, I know -- CREDIT! ;) ) North Americans have been spending on luxury, recreation and entertainment at unprecedented levels in recent years -- and they continue to spend on us -- but our rates remain stagnant. (I won't say "low" because that's a subjective term. Some might call them "high" -- all we know for sure is that they're stagnant.) This suggests to me that something else is going on, such as (and these are just suggestions -- I honestly don't know, as much as I'd love to): -- We're collectively mismanaging our business. -- Our perceived value to consumers has sharply decreased. -- The viability of our business is fading; we're going extinct either through inevitability or through lack of vision. I mean, if we take the emotional factor out of this -- that which seems to make us defensive -- and look at other industries that are not finding purchase in new markets -- such as local TV and print media -- what would you say happened to them? Were they simply overwhelmed by new alternatives they couldn't compete with? They didn't die off overnight. Or did they fail along the way to remain competitive, and now they can't possibly catch up? Were they so certain that it couldn't happen to them, and that their flagging profits were just a sign of the times, that it caught them unawares? I would like to learn the answers -- after all, this is my life's work. Can you blame me for being curious? I don't think that gaining any insight will change things much for any of us here today, but who knows? I'm still interested. ..c..

Nope, we quit a couple years back. My husband had been jumping since '71 and me since '82 -- we'd had our fill. I still miss exit, and freefall, and (oddly enough) packing. Now we're discovering this whole life outside of skydiving. It's amazing! ..c..

Although the conventional wisdom answer is "supply & demand," I have trouble believing that since I've worked through the past 30 years (and more!) and while it may wobble back and forth seasonally or market to market or year to year, supply and demand have pretty much remained in balance through the decades. But what the market will bear? That is affected by more than just supply and demand. In another thread, we discussed whether a "pay what you think is fair" pricing scheme would work for our business, and the conclusion was that it wouldn't because, with exceptions, too many men would simply refuse to be fair to women. Men, in general, could not be trusted to enter into such an arrangement in good faith, but would rather be looking for a way to take advantage of the terms at the SP's expense. I'm wondering if that doesn't have something to do with why our rates have stagnated, despite no significant enduring change in either supply or demand, over the course of decades. Where will this go from here? Already, the buying power of an hour at the median rate has plummeted -- a fact no one seems to dispute. And obviously, the lure of making good money is a motivating factor for women entering the business. To borrow a phrase so common in the news these days, "however will we retain good talent if we don't reward them properly???" :) ..c..

I thought of a way to try to explain what I'm trying to say in a way that perhaps won't make some people feel so threatened. Look at chicken wings. When I was little, my grandpa was a butcher. He regularly cut the wings off and tossed them out. My husband's mom was a widow with 8 kids to raise. Her butcher used to package up the wings for her because he knew she could and would do something with them. But in general, they were thought to be a worthless part of the chicken when I was growing up. But then someone -- possibly a bar owner in Buffulo, NY -- got the great idea to serve spicy roasted chicken wings as appetizers. Buffulo wings were born, and the price of chicken wings went from close to zero to as expensive as chicken breast overnight. Recipes proliferated -- honey garlic wings, mahogany wings, cajun wings. The status of this piece of the chicken carcass skyrocketed in a very short time -- almost as though a quantum leap. Now, yes, there was more demand for them, and technically, that's why the price went up (as opposed to down, since you need to grow a whole chicken to get a couple wings) -- but the reason that the demand went up is the essential factor here. Chicken wings went from being a food that poor widows found a way to use to a trendy sports bar food. We've undergone a trend in the other direction. Considering the buying power of $250 in 1982 and in 2009, it's fair to say that our social status has decreased over the past several decades. But why? What factor was behind that? That's what I'm interested in. ..c.. (oh, and ps. no, this is not about my business. You'll note I don't advertise here or take advantage of any of the free promotion tools here. I'm here to participate, to discuss issues I'm interested in, and to raise concerns or ideas I have. That's all.)

I dunno! I think just plain old jumping out of perfectly good airplanes was adrenaline enough for me! Did anyone here see the video where the wingsuit flyer hits some "terrain"?? Too hilarious! ..c..

Sorry if I offended you. It was not my intention. Supply & demand is always the answer given, but I've been in the business well over three decades, and I'm sorry, but while I accept that for fluctuations within, say, a ten year period, I don't see it as a legit reason for the stagnation of our rates over the space of decades. Nor am I complaining. Obviously I'm still happy with what I'm making doing this, or I wouldn't bother with it. But that said, I remember when our earnings had a lot more buying power. People like to talk about the correlation between rates and class -- it seems to me that if our rates have stagnated, and the buying power of our earnings has gone down, well... what does that say about us? About the status of our profession? Could it be that we're running ourselves into the ground? I think we're in for a tough economy for at least another 2-5 years -- and likely our rates will either go up (if inflation rules the day) or go down (if deflation rules) -- but I think that figuring out what went wrong over the past 30 years or so might help those to come after us. And I know, many SPs could care less about that. Please forgive me if I do. You don't need to bother yourself with such discussions if they make you uncomfortable, you know. ..c..

As a result of all my years working with human sexuality, I think a person who doesn't masturbate at least once a day is asking for trouble in the sex department. We're not static creatures. We're changing, growing, aging, going through phases all the time. Masturbation in the way we can keep in touch with our sexualities and therefore know ourselves better -- be team mates -- with our bodies when opportunities arise to play with someone else. I'm surprised that the medical profession is so silent on the subject, considering the benefits. ... well, okay, maybe I'm not *that* surprised. After all, the benefits of massage are massive, and yet, it's rare you'll hear a doctor advising a patient to get a good massage. Daily masturbation can make a huge difference in someone's life. Don't have time? What? Don't you take showers? You know what they say -- if you wash it for more than a minute, you're playing with it. ;) ..c..

That sounds like the kind of thinking that got us into our current economic crisis. ;) Supply and demand play a role -- but there are other factors. ..c..

It's always been a YMMV situation, as long as I've been in the business. The term, GFE, is relatively new though. Even today, I still have friends who are very clinical about everything. It's a comfort level thing. I think that all SPs will be GFE with some clients, and some will be GFE with many, but few will be GFE with all. There are guys, too, who make it clear that they're not into the GFE experience. C'est le guerre, I guess! ..c..

Oh, sorry! ..c..

Suppy and demand might explain short-term fluctuations in a market's pricing, but it doesn't explain why rates have been essentially stagnant for nearly three decades. Look at housing, for example. Sometimes it's up; sometime's it's down. But as it trends up and down in the short-term, over the past three decades, it has steadily risen in most markets. Another thing about today's rates is that, in many cases, we are supplying more value. In 1982, when I first worked in Toronto, almost no one did incall. There really weren't even that many massage parlours, as I recall -- something about the city cleaning up in the wake of the murder of that little boy, Emanuel Jacks. (Although no adult operation had anything to do with it.) We weren't even responsible for our transportation costs, as back then, it was customary to quote your rates by the hour, and add whatever amount for transportation -- usually $20-$50. Today, however, in some areas (such as Ottawa) incall is expected. This places us at a higher risk, legally and physically, but it's more discreet and also more affordable for the customers, since they no longer have to get the room as they did back in the day, if they didn't want to receive us at their homes or offices. So our overhead costs now include rent, utilities, furnishings, linens, upkeep and maintenance, etc. (I even got yelled at by one guy in the winter of 2008 -- when we'd had so much snow that the city couldn't keep the streets clear -- for not providing a "dedicated parking spot" for my customers. This was a half hour customer, mind you, who takes a shower when he arrives and another when he leaves, and always goes MSOG. I like they guy -- he's a doll -- and I know he'd had a hell of a time finding parking that day. But I thought it was a bit over-the-top nonetheless.) Some of us save a few $$ by working from our homes -- and I've done that -- but it's stressful because now your home and your family are subject to your work schedule, and if there's ever a problem? Not good. I was never tremendously comfortable with it. I never considered foreign workers as part of the problem. It's been happening a long while, but last I looked, these girls were mostly available within their own ethnic communities. From what I read here, that's changed. One thing that I find difficult to discuss because I don't want to come off sounding judgmental, but a huge problem I've noticed is that we have a lot of women in the business who are just looking for fun money, but have other income from family allowance or disability. And too often, because they're just looking to make a few quick dollars to go shopping or hit the casino, they undercut or will drop their rates quickly in a slow market.* This really complicates things for those of us who are trying to make a living. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be in the business at all -- but rather, I wish they would take us into consideration and behave ethically. And let's face it, the customer really doesn't distinguish between us and them. All the customer cares about (rightly so!) is whether she's pretty, charming, fun and satisfying. And that's another thing: when many women come into this business, their biggest (sometimes only) source of information is the customer. You can't blame the customers for giving advice and information that's skewed towards the customer's interests. Many of us who are doing this for a living make the effort to conduct market research and reach out to one another. As you can imagine, we don't always see eye-to-eye, but I think we all do recognize our common interests. (*I'm not suggesting that SPs should never lower their costs during a recession. But to lower rates in response to business being slow -- without seeing any reduction in our overhead first -- is suicidal. $50 isn't going to make that big a difference in many cases for the guy who has serious concerns over where the economy is headed and what damage has been done to his retirement savings, value of his home, job security, etc. It may bring a small flurry of samplers who will take advantage, but in the long run, business will still be slow and now you'll need even more appointments each month to cover your overhead. It just won't work.) ..c..

Isn't this a board where you have to be registered to view many (or all) threads? If so, then I don't see the numbers as being that out-of-whack. On other boards (mostly non-adult) that allow guests to browse, it's not uncommon to have a lot more guests than registered members. ..c..

Although the internet has brought us much more affordable and fully-valued advertising, I'm not sure I can agree with you on the costs of print advertising. And unfortunately, it still remains that only a fraction of the market uses the internet to find SPs. I have been reading that print advertising is in big trouble lately -- whole newspapers are going under, for example -- but the last few years I have found that my print ad costs spiralled. The Sun, for example, loves to mug us -- and they're very creative about doing so. A couple years back, they arbitrarily decided that we needed a 4-line minimum. Never mind that I myself could get by on 2 lines, and was already paying for 3 because of their minimum. Then last Fall, they narrowed their classified ad column, tightening up lines by 6-8 characters, I believe. Same price. You just get less. And less. And less. I only advertised in the Sun for one reason: I have a number of clients who cannot or will not go online to find me, and they don't want to keep any information lying around amongst their personal effects. In many cases, they have partners or kids who are much more computer literate than they are, and they're concerned they'll leave tell-tale trails, or they have a partner who doesn't respect their privacy. So I don't really need to do "Fire Sale" huge-type every day advertising -- I just need to be reasonably represented such that people can find me. The Sun offered me a deal -- 7 insertions within a 10-day period for $150. To me, that doesn't really seem like much of a deal, but... anyway, at some point last summer, I approached them and proposed that I could budget $200 a month, but I'd like to get more even coverage throughout the month, even if it's fewer insertions overall, rather than have my entire budget blown in one little clump of days, most of which I'm probably not going to be working anyway. It seemed like a reasonable proposal to me, but they wouldn't even discuss it. Now... most businesses try to work with their customers to find solutions. But when it comes to us, the Sun isn't so much as interested in working together with us for both our benefits as they are being predatory and exploitative. I get the impression it's a morals issue with them. Screwing us over allows them to feel self-righteous. We have a very bad situation with respect to print advertising here in Ottawa. However, I haven't bothered with them since November. Maybe they've changed their tune recently? Yup, and that's great for people who can and will use the internet for this purpose -- but not everyone does. I know that it's hard to remember that the world doesn't end at the edges of our boards -- but really! It doesn't! Probably 90% of my customers never heard of CERB or any of the other boards. I try to send people here whenever the opportunity comes up, but it's just not for everybody. Yes, and I think I addressed that previously -- there are some areas where costs have actually gone down, but there's always a good reason for that. As I noted before, with cell phones (and computers too), prices came down because demand went up AND new technologies made it more affordable. But the basic necessities of life -- housing, transportation, education, food, health care -- have all gone up significantly over the years since 1982. And all with pretty much the same supply & demand trends affecting them. So I really can't believe it's just a matter of supply & demand. (Incidentally, sure you can eat for $5 at McDonalds -- but you wouldn't believe some of the meals my husband and I make at home for under $5 for both of us! I'm talking steak and potatoes, cheese blintzes with homemade fruit syrups, coq au vin, dim sum, sushi, stir fries, roast pork and much much more. McDonalds, while cheap, isn't really such a good deal. Any frugal person would avoid fast food like plague.) ..c..

Actually, I recall us being pretty busy back then. At least as busy as at any time in the previous few years, and much more busy than in this past year or especially past few months. I don't know much about drugs, so I'm sorry that I can't discuss that intelligently. But it does seem to me that there are some new formats for these drugs (crack as opposed to regular cocaine), and there are many who believe that drug pricing is regulated by those looking to manipulate populations. I'm not sure we can compare the illegal drug trade to prostitution. At least, it's not an argument that would have ever occurred to me! ..c..

Unheard of? I think not -- compared with the people they associate with. If someone is making 7-8 figures a year, it's not unreasonable that their service providers are making 6 figures. After all, you can bet these guys aren't brown-bagging their lunches either. And their costs and risks much higher than those of local SPs, as well. Add to that the impact of their problems -- a no-show on a $1000 customer is a serious matter. There are only so many customers that can pay this rate in any Canadian market. And obviously they can't show up every two weeks. I'm not sure it's such easy money. But the point is that rates at various levels, except for the very top (where we really didn't have such outrageous incomes and costs until the past few years) have remained stagnant. How do you explain that? ..c..

Please bear in mind that's not a "wage" -- as in a bring home pay. It's income before expenses. Add to that the risks and stigma, and it's not such a great deal by today's standards -- do you think? ..c..