JoyfulC

When I first started working in Toronto in 1982, the going rate was $250/hr. Today, 27 years later, that's still what I'm charging. And I imagine that to be a mid-to-hi rate for this market. There've been times when it's gone up or down by about $50/hr, but there seems to be some sort of glass ceiling that we just can't get past. Why? In that same time, costs of many other goods and services have skyrocketed. Some costs have perhaps come down, such as some technologies -- a cell phone, for example, costs almost nothing today compared to what it cost in 1989, but advances in solid state technologies and growth of cell networks have played roles in reducing costs. We've apparently just blown through a period of way out-of-control consumer spending, but it doesn't seem to be trickling down to us in the form of cost-of-living raises. When we look at things like rent, gas, food, utilities, all these things have increased markedly, while our rates appear to be stagnating. When I first started in the business, I remember reading articles about call girls living lives of extravagant luxury and jetsetting around, working only a couple months out of the year and living among the beautiful people the rest of the year. Those articles may have been grossly exaggerated, but I'll note that I was able to put myself through school and still comfortably maintain active social and political lives while working. I fear that the only way today's SPs can make enough to earn even a slightly above average living is through volume -- and that doesn't seem very appealing. What's the deal? ..c..

So Cumquat, if I'm reading you right, you think it wouldn't work basically because too many hobbyists are sleezebags who would take advantage of it to rip SPs off by paying them rates that they know to be unfairly low? Perhaps you have a point. Myself? I do have a lot of good regulars, and I'm pretty selective (even to the point of paranoid) about taking new clients, and so perhaps I sometimes forget that my average client isn't representative of the average hobbyist. (Frankly, many of my guys would overpay simply because they would never want to be viewed as being unfair, much less ungallant.) There is something else your post has me wondering about, but I'll ask it in a new thread. ..c..

You know.... wouldn't it be cool if a condom manufacturer ran a similar contest? Roll Down The Rim To Win? ..c..

The more I think about this, the more I like it. Maybe it would serve to post median, mode and hi/lo rates for various markets with a breakdown for subsegments. (...and I know how much Mod loves us thinking up new chores for him! Maybe he'll need some volunteers from the hobbyist community to compile this info. Hey Dummpy! ;) ) ..c..

I don't think anyone was implying that anyone thought less of someone who has a sale or makes a special offer. Although I don't think the "sale" strategy would work well for us -- after all, it's not like we're looking to get rid of last season's inventory here! I suspect that having sales would lead to guys holding out for them. As you note, Dummpy, Ottawa has a healthy contingent of bargain basement shoppers. I know that my husband and I take very much this same approach to buying meat -- we know it will come on sale several times a year, so we wait until then to buy it. Not sure it would work as well with an escort, though, as we don't really freeze well! ;-) ..c..

But what if you met someone who gave you a really terrific experience? Would you forgo seeing her a second time merely over money? I suppose some would -- but many more, it's been my experience, would be happy to pay a higher rate for subsequent visits when they know it's a sure thing. (And when I experimented with this, ironically, I also found the reverse was true. The intro rate allowed certain customers to see me at least once who otherwise might not have been able to afford to do so. And a few of them, it turned out, I was happy continuing to accept the lower rate from as their needs were less than my typical clients and I liked them. So it works both ways.) If it's not seen as fair to both by both, then it's not fair. Plain and simple. If two people cannot agree on what's fair, then they're not for each other. Wouldn't you agree? (However, I would suggest to any SP trying this that in the event of a dispute over what's fair, she accept the customer's decision. If he wishes to return to her, then at that time, it will be up to her whether to accept it a second time.) But you make a salient point regarding baselines. Pricing in our business is all over the road. I even read a thread on here last summer about someone who was charging $30. !!! There is absolutely no way that any SP who is supporting herself through this could match that rate. It isn't at all uncommon that we have to compete with people who essentially are not relying on this for their livelihood, and who are, basically, just looking to make a little "pin money." Some ideas might be to have the SP publish her expected rates. Or another idea might be for an impartial third party (CERB?) to publish a median rate for an area. But that's just the thing. I'm not suggesting replacing it, but rather, strengthening it. I'm not suggesting for a minute that any SP would have to take customers that she might not otherwise -- rather, I think being selective would be even more crucial under such a pricing structure. And too, we also have a problem in our business with people slapping a high price sticker on themselves just because they think they can.And many of them do well with once-offs this way. The true measure of an SP, from what I can see, is her ability to generate repeat business. Such SPs should have no difficulty doing well under a "pay what you think is fair" or "introductory rate" pricing plan. Really, I think this is a very exciting and worthwhile idea. I'd try it myself except I've been around a long time and I deal almost exclusively with regulars. If I see a new customer in a month, it's like woohoo! ;-) ..c..

I don't know. I think with some tweaks, it could work. At first they might -- but they might also learn something from it too. I think the cream would rise, and the rest would flush. For the simple reason that guys would quickly learn that any excuses they gave for not wanting to pay a full rate the first time may very well prejudice an SP against giving them another appointment. In times like these, it might be better to have a situation like that than to have to drop your rates, indiscriminantly, across the board. Yeah, I've met guys like that. I always tell them that maybe they should place an ad. I doubt I'll need their services, as between my personal life and my work, I'm good -- but I'd be happy to give them a review. So... if that's the case, why are they using the services of SPs? Why don't they just go get a 1-night stand? Yep, met a few of them too. One option is to send them packing. Another, more deliciously evil, approach is to see them and give them the most amazing session ever. And take up the matter with them the next time they want to come back. (I've done this! Too much fun. ;) ) That's a good question, but for many of us, deciding who to see is the big question anyway. Being selective would be as important as ever, of course. Asking customers who want to take advantage of this offer to verify might dissuade some of the cheaters, and keep us safer too. But that said, the key here is "fair" -- if someone is out to cheat you, obviously they're not going to be fair with you anyway. I was trying to think of what some of the more legit reasons might be given for paying less than posted rates on the basis of fairness. Here's a couple I've thought of so far: "Other girls charge this rate." Well, that's true -- but why not see one of them then? Why come back to me? "I'd pay you more if I could, but I just don't have it." This is a tricky one, especially in a bad economy, when there are a lot of lay-offs and such. Obviously this is a luxury -- not an entitlement. Depending on how well you like the guy, you might want to either tell him that he'll have to do better if he wants to see you again. Or agree to see him at that rate but only temporarily -- say, revisit the rate in so many months, or if he gets another job. Or see if you can negotiate for something else that serves both your interests. (My personal favourite: ) "Yeah, well, what about right now? You're not doing anything. At least if I came over, you'd make something, eh?" Mm-hmm. But what if something better comes in and I miss it because I'm with you? Like my grandma used to say: if Prince Charming rides by while you're out back kissing frogs, you just might miss him! When I read the article, my first thought was that while it was working for the cafe at this point in time, I don't think he'll get durable results with it. However, I think it could possibly work for us. I'm not suggesting anyone try it (or even saying I'd try it), but some variations on the theme might be to keep your published rates, but make it clear to a *qualified* customer the first time that he can pay what he feels is fair. If he pays less than your rates, then you know he either wasn't that impressed with you, or he's cheap, or he just doesn't have the money. All that's information you can use in deciding whether to see him again, or prioritizing him against other offers. Another option might be to agree on a rate for an introductory session, but make it clear that subsequent sessions will be at full prices, if he wants to come back. I've actually tried this, and not only have I had people come back happy to pay the full rate after a discounted first session, but I was surprised to have met a few guys who could never have afforded me at my full rate, but also don't need anywhere near my full service or time. It can be a way of connecting with people you might otherwise have overlooked. Pricing is something that has always fascinated me about the business. It's interesting to note that when I first worked in Toronto in 1982, my rate was $250/hr. Today, it's still $250/hr -- only it buys a helluva lot less! Still, I'm not entirely sure we can blame the guys for that. Sure, they're trying to get a deal -- and yes, some are trying to cheat us -- but often they're also just trying not to get ripped off. I've worked in other places and times when the pricing structures were extremely predatory and unfair to the customer (such as working on "tips" expecting a guy to negotiate with a hard on). ..c..

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/03/17/lippert.qanda/index.html?eref=rss_topstories#cnnSTCText Interesting article! But would it work for us? I'm interested to hear thoughts from hobbyists and SPs. ..c..

I wouldn't be surprised if some element of gang stuff isn't involved here. Police across Canada seem to be grappling with that lately. On other sites, discussions have quickly deteriorated into criticisms of the justice system, young offenders act and immigration policy. And for sure there are concerns in all those areas. But for me, I'm just really happy and proud to see our police getting such prompt results. I'd hate to see their good work be overshadowed by anything else. A number of my friends are cops, and so I know too well that it's big news when one of them screws up, and too often no news when they get it right. The argument can be made that it's their job -- but we all appreciate recognition for a job well done. They're no different. (You don't have to hug them -- in fact, some might take that as an act of aggression. A thumbs up or applause or "way to go!" would probably do fine. ;) ) ..c..

Sorry Pete -- I think you had to be me to see that one. I've fixed it now. ..c..

(I wasn't sure where to post this, but I think we really need to get the word out and start a movement.) http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/story.html?id=1379251 In the face of an uptick in armed robberies, Ottawa Police appear to be wasting no time solving the problem. That must be some of the most dangerous work that our cops can do. I propose we start a movement. When you see an Ottawa cop, give 'em a thumbs up. Give 'em a round of applause. Hell! Give 'em a hug! Now's the time to let them know that we really, really appreciate their hard work and willingness to take on the baddest of the bad guys for us. ..c..

Flirting. ..c..

First, think about this notion that we shouldn't work for the days of the month that we're menstruating -- is it practical? How many guys here would be willing to stand down 2-7 days with out pay every single month? Most SPs aren't living off their trust funds. We have to make livings and support our families just like any of our customers. Secondly, no, you can't always know when it's going to happen. Sometimes you get absolutely no warning; other times, you're symptomatic for nearly two weeks. Sometimes a woman will have a regular cycle, and at other times of her life, not. It's just not a reasonable expectation that we should know for sure. Nature didn't build the system this way. Third, there are many customers out there who don't mind -- either because they're old-hands at marriage and accustomed to a woman's various "moons" or because they don't require the type of services where it would be a problem. My suggestions to younger sps: 1) This is another reason why it's important to build a good strong base of regular clientele. That way, when you know you're coming up on or in that time of the month, you'll have a better idea who you can see and who you shouldn't. If a guy is into DATY, then he's probably not a good candidate. (I say "probably" because I've met men who swore they didn't mind.) It doesn't hurt to cultivate regulars with a broad range of interests. Not only will this come in handy when you are in your moon, it might save your butt right after having dental surgery. Think about it! 2) Use a barrier (such as a cup or sponge) when a moon is imminent, just to prevent an accident. (If nothing else, it's hell on the sheets.) 3) Don't take new customers when a moon is full or imminent. 4) Be honest with your regulars and let them decide for themselves. They might surprise you! 5) Again -- and I can't say this often enough -- if you can't give a guy what he wants, don't take his money. I am in menopause and I'm thrilled! I haven't had a moon since November -- although a week or so back, I did spot a bit after a particularly vigorous bit of "rumpy pumpy" with a friend. It quit again right after that, though. (I still have an IUD, so that might have been a factor.) I look at this as the final frontier of my adventure as a woman! I did have one 24-hour period during which I bawled like a baby and considered everything from divorce to suicide to homicide to running away and joining the circus. (And when I ran out of things to be pissed off at/wounded over, I downloaded Sarah McLauchlan's "Angel" and played it over and over, while wringing out the last of my tears.) Once I realized it was hormonal, though, it all seemed pretty hilarious! I don't mind the hot flashes either! They feel a bit like cinnamon tastes. (Of course, that's in the dead of winter. I might be singing a different tune come the sticky heat of mid-July.) Moons are part of us. I don't like the idea of using chemicals to prevent them -- that seems unnatural to me, and like one of those things that, decades from now, we're going to wish we'd never tampered with. Trust nature and your body. ..c..

Thank you, Cowboy Kenny. It's true I'm creeping up on 40 years in the business in some form or another. I considered myself very lucky to have been born in a place and time when it was possible for a woman to choose to make her living providing sexual pleasure. In other cultures and other eras, what was thought of as "prostitution" is something I think more of as sex slavery. The next frontier will be for our culture to welcome the same type of services provided by men for women. It's true it won't/can't be exactly the same, as women aren't the same as men -- but I hope it will happen and that it becomes commonplace in my lifetime (and they'd better hurry up! I ain't gettin' any younger! ;-) ). I also hope that if it does, I'll still have a few discretionary sheckels to treat myself at least once or twice. I have always been thrilled and amazed at my life as a prostitute. Since my late 20s, I've always maintained other avenues of income, certain I was going to get too old for it any day now -- but so far, the phone keeps ringing and the guys always have great big smiles for me. This makes me feel like one of the luckiest human beings to have ever lived. ..c..

I'll probably get flamed for commenting on this, but I've been in the business since the 1970s, and I must confess that I don't always get the rationale behind some SPs policies. I agree, if a guy's breath is bad or he has an open coldsore, an SP isn't going to want to kiss him -- but she should make her reasons clear up front, and professionally give him the option to cancel without penalty. If she doesn't want to hurt his feelings, she can always make some other excuse to pass -- but don't take his money if you can't give him the services he's looking for. I do bbbj, although I will use a condom if requested. (I find it unpleasant, though.) I have been lectured by others on this, and yet I can't help but notice that they insist on condoms for customers, yet will fall into bed with some character they met at a club just hours before, often not bothering with any condom for oral. I have a friend who insists on condoms for oral, and yet, she makes exceptions if a guy is particularly "hot." There are two clients I'm thinking of that we've both seen regularly. One is "hot," the other is not. She doesn't use a condom with the hot one, and does with the not one. And yet, she knows neither use condoms for bj with me. So how exactly does that make sense? This is one of the big problems with STDs. We tend to demonize them and the people who get them. But really, they're no different (from a disease perspective) from any other contagious disease. The only difference with STDs is the "shame factor" -- and much of this stems from the "infidelity factor." I'm married, and my husband knows what I do. So if I had to go home and tell him that I got the clap, it wouldn't be any different than if I had to go home and tell him I got strep throat or chicken pox. Because we don't consider my work "cheating" and because I haven't lied to him about anything, we would only worry about the actual disease part of it. But for someone who is married, if he had to tell his partner that she needed to be tested/treated for a disease, then not only would they have to deal with the disease, but also the breach of trust. This whole demonization of STDs is particularly sad when it comes to young people. Because STDs are "bad" "dirty" contagious diseases, I think many young people are left thinking that only bad dirty mean people will give them to you. That wonderful, desirable, sexy person who seems to be crazy about you and wants you to meet his or her mom wouldn't/couldn't give you an STD, could they?? (or get you pregnant, for that matter) The truth is that STDs are no more and in some cases less prevalent among prostitutes and johns than the general public. Why is this so? I suspect because we are sangfroid, dispassionate about our risks. Most of us (but not all apparently) make informed decisions not affected by things like love or trust. I also believe that most people exaggerate the frequency of their testing. There are a couple considerations here: 1) The overwhelming majority of people infected with an STD are asymptomatic. Some of us may be more confident than we should be. I'll take a risk here and state for the record that, if nothing else, I'm sure I've been thoroughly exposed to HSV-1, the virus that causes coldsores. I've never had a cold sore, though! 2) A test is a lot like a snapshot. You can test negative at 2 PM on Friday, and pick something up on your way home from the clinic. 3) The consequences of an STD infection are not the same for all people. As I've already stated, if I had reason to believe I'd acquired an STD, it wouldn't be any more serious than acquiring a non-sexually transmitted contagious disease with a similar prognosis around my house. I've had many people lecture me about the importance of their wives not finding out or of *my* possibly infecting innocent unsuspecting wives -- but I don't even know these people. I did not take any vow to them, nor have I ever given them any assurances. Husbands must take active measures to protect their own partners, if they are still sexually active with them. Taking the above into consideration, one really needs to decide for oneself what his or her policies should be. Respect others and never pressure anyone to do anything he or she isn't comfortable with. As for SPs taking swipes at one another, sadly, yes, I can attest that it's true. Business hasn't been great lately, and people are starting to get nervous. One of my friends has made numerous comments suggesting that she thinks I'm getting more business because I give bbbj -- but as we see here on this board, there are as many guys who will avoid an SP who provides this service as will go with one. And besides, it's a silly point since I mostly work with regular clientele, some of whom have been coming back to me for ages -- I've been in Ottawa since 1989, and I have clients I've been seeing regularly here since then! She takes many new clients, but I don't -- and I have strong age and other preferences that limit me as well, that she isn't saddled with. Times are simply tough, and she's looking for someone to blame. And just last month, someone reported some of the pics on my site that were being hosted by Picasa, and google removed them. I believe this was another SP (although probably not one I know -- I hope not, anyway!). The pics removed certainly weren't obscene, there wasn't even any full nudity, and similar or more erotic ones weren't flagged. I suppose it could have just been some troll, but it smacks of another SP. I also find that any ad I've ever placed on has been quickly flagged, even though I've never posted anything that violates the terms of use, and ads which are in obvious violation are allowed to stand. For about a year, there was some crazy chick who used to get her dumber-than-a-post boyfriend to call me up and make rude remarks, and when that didn't work, she'd grab the phone and start screaming that I was old and when was I going to retire? (I tell her "when people stop making appointments, of course!" ;-) ) I think we are in for a bit of a rough go with the economy over the next year or so. Gas prices last summer ate into the play money for most of us. Many of my clients are seniors and have been in shock since about mid-September. Recently, I'm starting to hear that some of my younger clients are getting laid-off. That not withstanding, right now, I think a large part of what we're dealing with is psychology -- not economy. There will be those who react to this without grace or integrity -- but we're all adults and we know it when we see it. I recommend just ignoring it. ..c..

And others will die with their boots on. ;) ..c..

The thing is, time is time. Most SPs' rates are based on time (just like most wages or charges), and so it really doesn't matter whether we're playing tiddly winks in private or tearing up the dance floor. (And some of us will even charge more to go out, as there's extra time involved in travel, etc.) Sadly, this is just another one of these deals where there's no such thing as a free lunch. I get some guy phoning me all the time, wanting me to go to Sens games or dinner or whatever, and not charge him for the time. His reasoning is, it should be just clean fun. My reasoning is, I have a partner to do stuff like that with. Like most people, when I'm working, I need to be paid for it -- or else I'd better find another job to support myself! Have you tried any of these social clubs where you pay an annual fee and then get deep discounts on various outings (from travel to adventure sports to cultural events)? My daughter is currently endorsing a similar group in the US (she's in radio). It looks pricey, but it also looks like a good deal. Because you're going along as part of a group (as opposed to having to pair off first, before you even know each other), you get a chance to meet and be met under circumstances you enjoy. And I imagine you'd get a chance to scope out and get to know people under much lower pressure than dating. It looks like a good deal to me! I met my partner skydiving -- and not only did I get a chance to get to know him, but I had a chance to see how he interacted with other people and what others thought of him. It was a huge advantage. It seems to me that how any two people view spending time and money is essential to the relationship working out. This type of social interaction is perfect for getting a bead on such before committing yourself. Good luck! ..c..

I know you say this guy is a friend, and you were trying to be helpful -- and I've done it myself -- but frankly, these are grown-up boys. I think if they're mature enough to be using the services, they should be mature enough to find someone on their own. A lot of guys ask me who I'd recommend, and I tell them where they can find info to make their own selection and their own arrangements. Even if they don't have a computer (which is rare these days), they can still do things old-school. I have found that it's just best to avoid the whole hand-holding and reporting-back-to-after thing. Good luck! ..c..

As annoying as it is, sometimes you just have to accept that the world is chock full of jerks and scammers. That makes it easier to pick your battles. If they're using pics of you to bait & switch, then word will get around -- soon everyone will know that site isn't on the up-&-up -- and everyone will be looking for the sexy local whose pics they can't resist stealing. (Aka "The girl they wish they had on staff!") You just have to trust that, in the end, decency will come through and fuckwaddery won't be rewarded. Good luck! ..c..

Unfortunately, the "pro life" people tend to brand anyone who doesn't agree with them completely as a leftist radical (murderer). I guess my point was that the guy must not have been some degenerate drug addict pervert hanging around playgrounds in a grubby quick-flash rain slicker. He held a position in the governor's administration, and a "faith-based" one at that. Repeatedly, we see Americans in high places, responsible positions being tripped up on prostitution charges. To me, this suggests that maybe prostitution isn't the terrible social-fabric-threatening crime that some south of the border like to view it as. Maybe it's just a legitimate service industry. I'm wondering when the US is going to come out of the closet on prostitution. ..c..

Did you notice the bit about how the guy charged in Ohio was formerly the head of one of the governor's "faith based initiatives"? "McFadden formerly served as director of the Faith-Based and Community Initiatives office under Gov. Ted Strickland. He was transferred to a job with the state prisons department in 2007 and laid off in March 2008 due to budget cuts." http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/news/2009/01/police_ohio_man_ran_hooker-review_web_site.php ..c..

As I noted earlier, when I first heard about the incident on the news, it struck a chord with me because I've heard of it happening before and I've heard some SPs talk of such a thing. I didn't want to say anything at first, hoping the media wouldn't make the connection -- but obviously they have. I don't think they would have pursued this early lead if there weren't more to it. I think there will be more to come. Amber, having been in the business for more than 30 years, I have long believed that hotels completely understand and accept as a reality of their business that their guests invite SPs to visit them on the premises and that SPs take rooms when traveling. If anything, I think they are among the few that don't paint us all with one broad brush, and who realize that there are decent, respectful, responsible SPs, and there are others who aren't. It's always been my experience that if we conduct ourselves responsibly and discreetly, the hotels are only too happy to accommodate us. I've always been treated very well by hotels across Canada and the US. It's horrible that this happened at the Radisson, but I don't think they'll hold it against us all -- I hope they realize that we are as outraged as anyone else by this person's behaviour. Although what she did is sick in the way that any violent crime is sick, I don't view her as some poor invalid in need of treatment -- I view her as someone whose choices render her a danger to public safety. She hurt innocent people, put many more at risk, and damaged property over a situation that could and should have been dealt with through civilized means. And I think that most of us involved in the sex industry would be the very first to say that what she did was totally unacceptable. ..c..

?? The article I read said something about a man hitting her in the face. Actually, the article I quoted did pick up on this, and I imagine we haven't heard the last of it. ..c..

I dunno. I'm not so sure it should just be left to burn out -- at least not here, among us. Recently we heard of a case in which a hobbyist was duped out of a considerable sum of money by an SP, and it sparked a call for fundraising to compensate the poor dear -- even though he was a willing participant in the fraud. And yet in a case like this -- where innocent third parties are injured because of the ignorance and maliciousness of one of our own -- we are too stingy to even condemn it publicly. What does that say about us? I'm sorry, but I've seen this technique before. It's a common ploy of streetwalkers and those who've jumped up to outcall service from streetwalking usually. The customer pisses you off, so you set the hotel on fire. (It usually involves spraying down the door with hair spray and lighting it up.) No regard for the hundreds of completely innocent people -- men, women and children -- who are being put at risk. If the customer did hit her (and I say "if" because, sadly, there've been too many cases where that sort of thing was fabricated as a justification after the fact), then she had all sorts of options that wouldn't have put any one else at risk. She could have called the police -- I understand that Ottawa police now have some sort of unit or something dedicated to following up on crimes against prostitutes. She could have contacted hotel security. She could have put him on a bad date list. But to set fire to a hotel and put other innocent people at risk is just SICK. I hope they take her off the streets and lock her up for a very, very long time -- because she's a danger to every around her. There simply is no justification for what this woman did. And there's no justification for our keeping silent on it. We actually enjoy a very high degree of tolerance and acceptance, by historical standards. Perhaps we sometimes fail to appreciate just how good we have it with respect to having the freedom to pursue our interests. But we have responsibilities too -- and we should be the first to be outraged by this. I know I am. ..c..

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/story.html?id=1141743# At the end of the article, it notes: "A flyer advertising ?complete service? massage by a woman named Daisy, whom the flyer states is five feet eight inches tall and weighs 135 pounds, lists Ms. White?s apartment?s address for in-calls." ..c..