d*mm*y

Here is a lengthy conclusion to my last week of thought on this subject, with a case study for good measure. I am surprised by the lack of contributions to this thread and happy with the number of votes and PM’s. I do understand people’s reluctance to verbalize information and feelings on this subject as it is very touchy in our community. I do know that over the last week I have been ostracized and put down for my opinions and been the brunt of some peoples anger, so I can understand the position on this one, rule #1 don’t talk about fight club (and some of you have relayed stories to me about similar experiences I feel for you guys too) As much as we would like to adopt the Beavers mentality of Sharing, Sharing, Sharing it is a very tough walk. The irony is that we live and breath the Beavers mantra even if we do it in silence! I have been in the hobby since 1983 when I picked up my first street walker at Dalhousie and Murray, she had long blond hair white vinyl jacket and short, short, skirt and those massive CFM boots in white of course. She was probably 5’5” (with the boots!) and maybe 100 pounds, I was so nervous I took off down the street the wrong direction!! She just thought I was a wild guy so I worked with it. I guess it is fair to say that I have been hooked ever since August of 1983 that adds up to 25 years. In that time I have had service from way too many ladies to ever count plus so many non paid conquests etc… If you live for sex you have a knack for getting it. When I look at this history I do believe that for the most part the sex was covered and oral not, and yet after 25 years no infections or disease? Also worth pointing out this community is not very monogamous, so I would have been exposed to way more that I actually ever saw. Beyond this point I see at lease 6 ladies that have been in business for many years on E-C etc… that offer BBBJ and some even advertise BBBJTC/CIM and several that don’t advertise it offer it, and yet these ladies some of them in business now for 20+ years are still alive to tell and don’t seem to be any less the wiser for it? (I can tell you that if I was getting repeated issues from something as a service provider I would stop that activity immediately!). Now you cannot simply say that the ladies can pick the right ones, because there is too much cross contamination, witch brings me to my next point. If 20-30% of us still troll the streets, and also visit mid priced ladies and some of us visit mid priced ladies and hi end ladies than all the infections and diseases would be already be spread, from the street right up to the penthouse condo. As soon as we see more than one lady a year we start to be big contributors to the cycle, at this point I think the vast majority of ladies are doing BBBJ vs CBJ, most of the popular agency girls are and several of the long time ladies are and then the rest area mix. Also most of the ladies are in business and see several at least 10 clients a week, so If I see a lady on Tuesday and she has seen 40 clients in the last month and gives me a BBBJ, than effectively I am exposed to all the things that those 40 guys have seen and done. Then if on Thursday I see a lady and we perform unprotected oral sex than she is getting the 40 that I got on Tuesday and I am getting the 40 she saw and lets say that all 40 had seen someone else in the last month, so the 40 has seen 40 and been exposed exponentially to 1600, and the 2nd lady seeing me is then at 3200. In all of this all of it BBBJ in a thirty day period times 12 months a year times 25 years that would be nearly 39,000 people of course I am Dummpy and I don't see 2 ladies a month so it is probably more like 130,000, and I know that my simple math is missing some other factors that would catapult this number to over a million. I am under the impression that if oral sex were an effective means to transfer STD/STI that I would have caught something by now? So the fact that I have recently finished my 64th STD/STI screening and tested negative proves that oral acts do not transfer STD/STI’s to me. All that is left to determine is whether I am super man or oral sex is just not that affective at transferring STD/STI. I am OK with either conclusion that you draw, however modesty forces me to choose the later. Now any scientist or brainiacs (or regular dummies like me) out there want to help me find the error in my conclusions? It’s important we need to make sure that all the cards are on the table and no stone is unturned. BTW a disproportionate amount of anti sex STD/STI stuff is on the web from the Pentecostal and Baptist churches in the US, you want a good laugh read that crap!!

Yup stuck in the southern states with dueling banjo's playing "squeal like a pig boy!"

If you are not a Suite kind of guy that it will show last thing you want to do is show up in a suite, I think the ladies are looking for happy, confident, and enthusiastic as well as clean. Some people look more confident in a suite and like my good buddy Cowboykenny in a cowboy hat and boots sporting a nice big belt buckle. I think the idea is that if you usually were a suite than you should if you usually were jeans than you should, I have some very grubby suits over the years what ever it is it should be you and should oooze confidence and be clean. For me it is often my Borat bathing suit of course the ladies don't see this until the end of the strip show!!!

Not much for spelling but I do like the Brazilian ladies!! (I am of course English)

[email protected] at least that is whats on her site. Probably should go in the announcements section I almost missed this here!!

Ah ha with 48% of black Americans having herpes, and comfortable clothes one of the recommendations, now I know why rappers were pants 10 sizes too large and around there knees and let there cotton boxer blow in the breeze!!

Thanks Dreamer, nice review!

Interesting statistics on herpes however I am not too sure about the type of populations tested as the results also mention that 48% of Black males have herpes and 17% of white males, it would be interesting to see were the samples came from. It is also good to know that with no signs of the disease I probably don't have it, unlike something like Chlamydia, were it just sits there and starts to fester far worse things. http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public/pub/std/herpes.html There is no question that STI/STD's are no joke and that is why condoms for full sex and anal are a no brainier, however I remember years ago the government (early 80's) warning about herpes from kissing I am glad to see that they have determined that this is indeed a very low risk. I also do believe that with the lack of dental dams being used in this in town and the supposed hi rate of herpes that oral is probably safe, I know that I have not even had as much as a cold sore let alone any rashing or blistering in the genital regions, and after 25 years you would figure if this was the way it was transmited and at 25% of the propulations if oral was a transmiter would not every SP have it (Accept the ones useing dental dams and CBJ or obstaining from oral sex) well why don't I? I think the simple truth is that oral sex has a very very low if nill transfer rate, I have been emailing and calling health organization and statistics Canada and physicsians etc... asking for a defenitive study that show evidence that oral sex alone is somewhat effective in transmiting STI/STD, many studies show a small percentage and then go on to say that they can't realy trust that the sample population was sure that it was from oral. No worreis about me being stupid enough to not wrap that rascle for vaginal or anal intercourse, however I am going to keep enjoying my DATY and DATO with out a dental dame until someone can actualy show me a case of someone who contracted an STD/STI from oral sex, and at the same time I am not affriad if the lady is willing to perform BBBJ that she is a dirty girl because of it. I might add that if I were to get an STD/STI I would be torn limb to limb in divorce court!! So this is a subject of great importance to me.

Hey Suburb, Those are some great stats you have found, it is interesting to see the number of same sex and intervenes drug users to the heterosexual populations, also interesting to see the number of infections from people visiting hi risk countries or there citizens visiting Canada. If only you could guarantee that the person you were with had never been a same sex partner or an IDU or with a person from a person hi-risk country, of course if someone they were with was with someone well you get the picture. Anything out there on herpes? that one is transferred with kissing inst it? (and other oral activities I have always been told?)

Ah yes my very dearest GF one of the best ever, only did Greek cause she did not want to lose her virginity!

Thanks to a few pointers from some of the members around here that wish to remain anonymous I have started to unravel some interesting info (well interesting to me). The world health organization does keep statistics on Canada (not Ottawa of course!) here; http://www.paho.org/English/DD/AIS/cp_124.htm And this is some interesting stuff "HIV\AIDS: At the end of 1999 there were an estimated 49,800 Canadians living with HIV/AIDS, a 24% increase from 1996. Approximately 4,190 Canadians became infected with HIV in 1999. From 1996-1999 there were increases in new HIV infections per year among homosexuals (30%), heterosexuals (26%) and females (48%), but a 27 % decline in the number of new infections among injection drug users. The incidence rate of AIDS cases in Canada in 2000 was about 17 per 1,000,000 population with a M:F ratio of 8.3:1. Sexually transmitted infection (STIs): In 1999, there were 41,676 cases of chlamydia; 5,381 cases of gonorrhea; and 187 cases of syphilis." Considering that is out of a population of @ 30,000,000, I do know that the Ottawa Clinic has very few cases, because I always chat them up when I am there! (the new female Dr is sexy as hell!!) Also worth noting the WHO has concluded that 45,000 Canadians die each year from smoking, hmmm, glad i don't smoke, i think I have picked one of the safer hobbies!! I am going out on a limb here as I do not have any hard evidence yet, however I am going to guess that the vast majority of these cases are in larger centers like Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal. As Ottawa acounts for less an 3% or @ 1,000,000 including or Quebec twin Gatineau even if we just extrapolate linearly that means in 2000 17 new AIDS cases here in Ottawa. And in 1999 1500 incidence of chlamydia, 150 cases of gonorrhea, and 5 cases of syphilis. It's no wonder why my Dr. is so relucant to check me for this stuff he must think I am waisting OHIP cash and his time. Hopefully I will start to get some more stuff from the rest of you on this it is interesting and far from anything that I have ever researched before. I am an idiot wading through a world of acronyms and statistics that for the most part take about a week for me to decipher!

So UT in your opinion we don't have enough to go on to make a hypothesis? Can we not consider the known and look at the cross population of active (sexually that is not verbally) say that it is safe to assume that among the general populations of SP's and cents utilizing the cerb forum that it is very unlikely that oral sex will lead to any STD/STI? (just cause it looks like no one around here eer has, well except for maybe Frinto!!)? Jus to wondering you can lecture me about this kind fo stuff and reaserch tomorrow, I know that when I took engineering that if you droped a peice of chalk to concrete 100zillion times that if it broke every time this became xyz's rule of chalk? It was also understood that one time the chalk might not break and would break the rule.

I am excited at the prospect of having our first case of oral transmitted STD/STI, don't forget to vote after you get your answer from the clinic!!

I had the pleasure of partying with the ladies last night and they have decided that they prefer the underground visits with a few people and have had a change of heart about offering there services on mass. Sorry Guys, these ladies simply love sex too much to jeopardize the great feelings they have when they are making love! Might have a Lebanese and Argentinian couple come out of the closet and offer their services in the next week or so stay tuned.

Nice L2C those are good plans on the wish list!! I think I may take your list over to Mistress Paige, now she would be awesome at smothering and face sitting while I was tied up mmmm.

Maybe the scholarly types around here can comment on the size of the sample that would start to have some validity understanding that we can assume that in normal population terms these voters are "Hi Risk" as they engage in multiple partner encounters? Is 100 a good sample do we need 1000 or do we have enough to start to draw a conclusion???

Those were qualities that I appreciated about you Erin!! confident, well groomed, carried yourself very well, we need to get out for another afternoon on the patio before the weather turns!!

It does appear in our micro poll that this seems an unlikely cause of any STD/STI in this area?? Is there anyone that will click any of the top six?? I know that if it happened to me and I had a chance to warn other anonymously that I would. Most of the studies regarding oral STD's and STI's have a very small percentage reporting due to oral however every test also mentions that it is dificult to say the actual casue because there can be other motivators for the condidates to miss lead about the actual sexual activites engaged. At one time I was surfing the interenet and found some great statisitcs on university populations and there sexual habbits and occurence of infection and disease, for the life of me I can't find it anymore, also found one that was specific to same sex partners and the actual clinical reasons why this is higher risk for general spread of sti and std, if anyone is in the trade or has the info and is unwilling to implicate themselves pm me and I will post it. I am an idiot about this stuff that is why I just keep going back and getting checked (ow oh was that an itch) I would love to see some definitive information that was not based on small samples or full of scenarios that the information may not be accurate.

Now that is a good one but probably accounts for most guys being tested !! I know it was a strong instigator the first time I found the clinic that and my ex in universtiy called me and mentioned that she had the clap and was not sure if she got it after our last time or before!! Luckily it must have been after.

In the spirit of Mod's post (if this poll can be construed in that spirit cause I don't think he is 100% sold on the idea) Lets ensure that the client SP relationship are the professional SP's that we have come to love and the streetwalkers and etc... shall be in the non or other category.

K the question begs to be answered, this is open to hobbiests and SP and the more the better of course. The question begs and answer and your anonymity is guaranteed. Of course Mod will be able to see if someone logs on through multiple accounts to scew the numbers however I believe it is in everyone's best interest to keep this one 100 accurate, our health and good time are on the line here. By the way you can muti vote just in case someone has contracted multiple STD/STI's from multiple scenario's

And digits, and 2 ladies sharing a guy, ph issues and std/sti transfer, not too mention kissing etc... to think that one type of oral is unsafe and all others are safe is like sticking your head in the sand, however I do believe that the actual risks from this community of carfully educated people is minimal. And yes agreed that BBFS is a baddy, however IV drugs and same sex intercoruse are the vast majority of the bad stuff going around, at least that's what the people at the clinic told me last week. (and I do beleive them) I am not a doctor and not an authority however I am in the sample and had a certain amount of experience in the sample population and as lab rat am fairing very well, you would think that after +- 25 years I would have contracted something? (and the includes broken or slipped off condoms at least 2-3 a year)

If it's not as advertised I walk every time I do feel for sorry for the lady and usually give at least $40 but that's it. If it was false advertising I tell her that if she were honest she would guy's that appreciate her the way she is. If she was set up and it was not her fault I might give her $60-80. i also think that it is fair to simply run with no explanation or contribution they should be able to figure it out, I am just not that ruthless (well Ok I am a marshmallow and my friends call me MR. wobbly because I am so flexible to others needs!!)

I have been around the business in Ottawa for over 25 years and have never heard of anything being passed on this way. I know that vindictive people have started rumors to try to advance there won chances and eliminate the competition however I do not actually know of any real case. I would love to know more about this if anyone has first hand knowledge of this happening directly to them, I do understand the controversial nature of this so I think a PM is more appropriate than blurting it our here in public chat. I am going to start an STD poll that is of course anonymous just for my own curiosity.

I have a closet full of suits from the old days when I had to wear them, I did not wear once for nearly half a year in protest when I no longer needed to wear one, but I have come full circle and do enjoy slipping one on every once in a while, I love the way people react when they see me in one. I kinda feel like the Dragon from Mulan you know Mushu "I am all powerful mmmmwwwwwwhahahahaha"