fortunateone

On the side track issue, yes I don't actually know of any doctor, chiropractor, or dentist or other similar professions that don't have 24 hour notice requirements, before charging the client for the appointment that they no show or cancel on the same day. In these days of medical insurance, I would hazard a guess that those who don't know about these standard policies just don't know about them because they don't pay out of pocket. I book appts for a friend for a chiropractor that has to be paid in cash, and get reminded on the phone that if the patient is too late to make the appointment and the doctor can't see him he will be charged for that appointment anyway (because he is chronically late) I also get involved in booking hotels and exhibit booths, and some hotels and all exhibitions require prepayment. The exhibit is paid half in advance, and the other half closer to the date, but definitely prior to set up. Some hotels require payment of the first night, which is non refundable unless changed 24 hours in advance. So if the party arrives to the hotel and doesn't want to actually stay, they will still be charged for that night regardless. Lots of examples of such nonrefundable or cancelation policies are out there. Like it or not. And the difference here of course is that sps who do not have the good reputation or professionalism are not the ones coming up with cancel fees. We are talking about sps who incur costs to provide that appointment, who have solid experience, history, and reputations, good business practises, good ethics and good attitudes. These are the ladies who not just deserve to be compensated for that no show or late cancel, but need to be because they are the ones who went out of their way to accommodate the client's requests. Same with some sps require deposits for longer appointments, travel arrangements etc, non refundable as well. For other sps, we work on short notice, same day bookings, use confirmation calls half hour prior to the appointment time, and other ways to reduce the impact of no shows or late cancelations. We are unlikely to ask for or need any cancel fees, because we are unlikely to be out of pocket just setting up the appointment for the client in the first place. Some sps do cancel last minute, and some maybe should be offering a discount on a future visit, but when they cancel the majority of clients are not actually losing the appointment fee. It is, for the most part, still in their pocket. It can still be used to see the same sp, another sp, or go towards the bills. When a client no shows on an sp who has a more involved booking process, lost income cannot be recovered most of the time. They don't have a waiting list of guys to call in the event they get some time freed up. And that is really what we are talking about in these cases.

There are subtle differences which can end up feeling like huge differences. I like different types and brands because the actual sizes can be different. A lifestyle large is not very large, but it does still give a small bit of extra room for someone who is not fitting into either regulars or Magnums. And Trojan does the biggest off the shelf extra large size if you get their Magnums. Magnums are larger than anyone else's large, and sometimes you need that. What is in short supply, no pun intended, is a snugger fit for a smaller size, even a longer guy who is smaller girth can swim in a regular size condom, and an illfitting condom can not only slip off, it can probably reduce sensation if it isn't fitting snugly. I order XXL (durex makes those) and Snug Fit (Lifestyle does those) online, as the only place I can find them. I get any Lifestyle that is ultra thin or natural feeling, or ultrasensitive, any of those are fine. Then one Large size, usually Lifestyle because overall I prefer LS over anything else. I do not like the smell of the Bare condoms, but the sensations are really great. Anyone who feels like they aren't getting enough sensation should try non-latex condoms, the difference is really noticeable.

plus one I read thru 3 pages of posts, and still come back to the word in post number one "most" . "most" sps don't offer bbfs. No kidding, really? From the complaints of many sps tho, rarely a day goes by that someone isn't calling asking for it, which is a sad sad thing. Imagine how desperate or how little self confidence his 'ultimate' now retired sp must have in order to provide this 'ultimate' service. Fear she won't get repeat clients, fear she might lose the regulars, fear she isn't worth not providing risky services or no one will like/pay/see her? Thoughts like that run thru my head. And yes, there is no reason to side track this bbfs talk into a bbbj talk, which has been well discussed, and well documented, and really as someone who understands the risks well, I don't appreciate anyone coming in to say it is the same as kissing or not a high risk activity. It is, but people do it anyway, enough said. Like bbfs, 'most' people understand it is a high risk activity, but they do it anyway, and 'most' people will get thru it without any problems, but some won't.

I would think other sps might be like me: I don't mind a phone call early in the day asking about a later visit, providing they can give me some kind of ETA and it is before midnight. If they wait until late to call, for a first time client, I would probably either not be answering or not want to go thru the getting to know you, here's my rates/services conversation and then wonder if the booking is legit or not but having to wait a full 30-45 minutes to find out. If you get the particulars earlier, and give an ETA, then the next call is just confirming that you can make it and what time.

It occurred to me also that the Picton enquiry should also highlight the dangers of outcalls, not just street workers being picked up.

Absolutely agree. This is the last place I'd expect anyone to say 'status quo' as in do not decriminalize and remove the laws surrounding prostitution, but there are some who do want that. They are happy the way things are right now because they can't be sure what is going to happen with decrim. I am not happy with not being able to legally do what I am currently doing, it makes me vulnerable to extortion and eviction the way things are right now. I'd prefer to not only have the right to do it, but to have everyone else know that I have the right to do it. Same thing is I would prefer to have the right to pay a driver to take me from point A to point B for the purpose of work, or an agency to book appts and advertise for me more freely than how they are able to do that for their employees now. I think it would be safer and more comfortable for an sp working for an agency if the booker could say yes or no she does or does not do A, B and C, and this is how much it costs. That is not possible now, and even tho you see some doing that, it doesn't change the law that says 3rd parties cannot be paid by sps or take any portion of their earnings for any reason. Additional Comments: re: the residential restriction, I think they have a point. Currently sps who work from home in NZ do not need to get a license. Licensing is for business front or places where there are more than 4 working in one location. Then one of them would have to be the 'owner', obtain a license (after criminal screening), and pay for the license. But think about that for a second. There can be 4 sps working out of one location which can be in an apartment building or house without any sort of licensing from the city or government. That is a lot of traffic, potentially, and i can't think of any other sort of work from home that might have 4 employees on site seeing as many clients as 4 people could see together in one day being able to run a business out of an apartment setting without drawing attention from the neighbours. If it was a shop or store or cafe, for example, it couldn't be done that way. It is different if the law said well, 2 sps can share one space if working out of a residential building. There will always be some who abuse this sort of thing, my guess is the majority of indy sps are working solo from residential buildings or maybe 2 or 3 share a space that they don't live at, but from time to time you are going to see a set up where there are obviously more than 4 sps, plus friends or security or whatever else, all in one 3 bedroom condo, running what can only be described as a brothel that should be in it's own commercial building.

What I put in my rep comment is that it is also unlikely for anyone to see professional athlete or actor, or any number of things that are not straight up 9-5 kinds of so called legit jobs as options. People are always uncomfortable with work that pays well but usually means those doing it are using their bodies, relying on their bodies to perform the work, and are not likely to be doing the work within an 8 hour day 5 days a week that they can identify with. The concept of getting paid today, but maybe not tomorrow, or not getting paid if injured or not getting paid if not hired is typical to these types of work: acting, sports and sex work. Parents don't want no retirement plan and medical benefits or the uncertainty of income for their kids anyway, no matter what the work actually involves. :)

What might seem dull to you isn't dull to me, or any stranger who works in customer service lol. Really, I like to hear about other people's jobs or hobbies, etc, without going into anything too personal or revealing of course, you can always discuss what sort of work you do, and so on. I've learned alot of behind the scenes stuff of a variety of different things, which I find very interesting. Sometimes you find your common ground right there, in sharing work related stuff.

I will also add that you can't have two opposing requirements. One argument is that according to the charter, no sp can turn anyone away for any reason. However, one of the fundamental things in the NZ regulations is that of course no sp can be forced or required to see anyone. If she decides to decline a session, that is the final word on that. So no one is going to be able to take her to court and use the charter against her without challenging that. One of those requirements trumps the other, and I think it is obvious which one of them is not going to be enforced.

It is I guess illegal but I don't think anyone is going to go to jail for bbbj. Protection must be used because in NZ they are subject to Occupational Health and Safety protocols. Just as you want your food server to wash their hands before making your sandwich, so are sex workers bound by the kinds of regulations that make interacting with them safer for everyone. :) I want to see regulations for health and safety brought in. I think it is the only way, everyone needs to be subject to the same kinds of protocols so no one is pressured to provide things that are simply not safe. whether they believe it or not, whether they want to or not. There are a lot of things that are unsafe that we want to do, but if they are regulated that you can't do them, then you proceed at your own risk lol but the sex workers will now have the ability to say, oh well, can't do that, rather than know that the one in the next room can and will, and they then start to feel like they 'have to' as well. This kind of thing protects

I have only ever done cbjs, and honesty is the best policy. One thing you can say to those who try to argue about it with you or you feel pressured by is that your cbjs are never YMMV. EVERYONE will get what is promised to them, unlike many who advertise and promise this service but don't deliver on arrival. The same thing with CIM. You can and will ALWAYS provide CIM to anyone and everyone (who is trying to finish with a bj of course), and that ALL of your bjs are done without hesitation and full enthusiasm because unlike the ones providing (or not) bbbjs, you have nothing to worry about and the difference is going to be obvious. So they can go to a bbbj promiser and a CIM promiser, and maybe they will get that bbbj and maybe they won't, and that's ok with you. Because also, at the end of the day, I want to see the clients who want to see and spend time with me, not a list of services.

That group is not actually a good thing. They want to criminalize clients paying for services, in order to pursue an agenda to abolish prostitution altogether. Clients can get charged, sps do not. Right now neither can be charged for the act of paying for sexual services.

This is what i do with clients as well. Encourage them by saying there are hooks on the back of the bathroom door for their things if using the shower, etc. For one thing, if we are not alone with their things we cannot ever be accused of taking anything if they misplace an item or few bills of their $$. I disagree with the sp who told the OP about how trustworthy she is, those are just words, and probably among the first things anyone would reassure a client of before they rifle through his belongings lol. I just make sure i am not putting myself in a position of being accused of wrong doing in the first place. No one has any reason to trust me when they first meet me, it would be foolish of them to do so, or to leave their belongings behind out of some fear they might offend me. I am difficult to offend, fwiw, taking your stuff to the bathroom isn't one of the things that offend me.

I've turned someone down when they've mentioned reviews before. Mainly because a review reader might be a review writer and I didn't have any interest in meeting up with one of those. I have found that reviewers aren't big on repeating, and I don't really want to spend my time with someone unless there is a chance of repetition at some point. I think that if she had a website and if she had reviews she would have included links to those or copies of those on her site. If not, then it might be she doesn't want them and doesn't need them and doesn't want to see anyone from review sites? You have to keep in mind that review sites are not like cerb. And many many sps have been badly burned by the fake trash and bash reviewers, and they are likely to have a knee jerk negative reaction when someone even says the word 'review'. She might be DNR due to harrassment or other reasons as well. What you could have done is just google searched her name and number and see what came up that way if there were no links on her site, rather than ask about it.

I agree that sps run their biz the way that suits them. I do things with my sessions that gives that extra care and attention that someone paying 100plus dollars should expect and receive. I think about the only thing i would take issue with in situations is where clients expectations go to excess because they might be left with an impression that an sp who actually stays on schedule with the agreed upon and paid for time is now considered a clock watcher or worse, rushing lol I don't mean the times where sps are actually shortchanging agreed times but simply providing the agreed time. At some point that that isn't good enough, but are we now expected to provide 10 to 20% extra off the clock time in order to avoid being accused of clockwatching etc? Things I ponder over the years. :) And of course, we can't forget that when these things are provided, on a regular or infrequent basis, someone is going to put it into a review or discussion topic and the sp will be inundated with calls and appts from people who won't respect the time paid for, and they will be difficult for her to get to leave on time, or compensated for the extra time not freely given?

I think she should just go apply at an established agency and see if they will take her on. That way she can see the difference between what she is doing for herself and what they can do for her. Eventually she will figure out what she wants and doesn't want, rather than having someone else decide for her how to market her and who she should be seeing. That is when she'll go back to being independent,

I don't mind a cancelation, someone calling to say they cannot make it after all. I use a booking process that eliminates a lot of the time wasting by the pranksters calling. At the same time I do not double book, if someone calls after the first appt is made I simply let the 2nd one know my next ETA, and he can book that time knowing that i may be available plus or minus 15 minutes from my estimate. I say I might be available earlier simply because the first caller may cancel or may not show up, making it possible for the 2nd to come earlier than expected. No shows are so common that even repeat clients do it, make appts that they do not show up for or call to cancel. No idea why they have the time to make the call and appt, but can't seem to call to cancel or say they can't make it for whatever reason. I would say that out of every 10 appointments made, at least 3 or 4 of them will simply not show up. And I don't mean a vague reference to calling when or if in the area, or saying at 2pm they want to come by at 5pm, then failing to call to confirm. I mean the ones who call from less than a half hour away, set a specific time within then, and fail to show up, and/or the ones who call for the address and fail to show up within the 5 minutes it should take them to get from where they are to my front door. At that point, that kind of caller becomes a safety issue, getting the address but not showing up.

I think what I find is that people take a lot for granted or have been spoiled by a site like cerb that has forums, feedback and admin moderation to control the advertisers, so to speak. Most advertising only sites don't have recos, reviews, discussion, or networking, and what happens it seems to me is that someone who relies on a 3rd party, in a way, to vet the posters has a certain amount of confidence that the poster is legit. But they shouldn't because really it comes down to more than just an ad posted and a phone number for most here to make a selection, so it should apply as well when you use any other site. I think what I find is that people tend to spend even less time with their selection process on the other ad sites than they would on this site, and that makes me wonder what the heck are they thinking? lol If you use this site, you are going to do a variety of things: check other ads, the profile, the discussion posts, possibly contact by pm or the sp's preferred method, check their website if they have one. Maybe even do a google search to see what the sp has on other sites. But on other ad only sites, the typical method is see ad, call sp, make appt, show up. What you could and should be doing is: see ad, contact sp and ask if they have a website to view, search the phone number on the site to view other ads, and google the phone number/sp name to see what comes up. Phone or email to get a feel for the sp herself, since there are no posts for you to view, and then and only then, make an actual appointment. Advertising sites are not created good and evil, and therefore dismissable simply because a few bad apples use them. and not every reputable site is able to filter out the bad apples or fake pic users or ad content stealers, or name stealers or any number of things. There are just as many pitfalls on this site that might come up as there are on CL, bp, or anywhere else. I do get tired of being labeled as disreputable simply due to the location of my ads, and I am sure many others are as well? I am also not that fond of having my clients from those sites being labeled as undesireable.

I like living alone, and prefer it that way. I prefer to do things on my own schedule, not someone elses as well.

It is possible the infection rate is higher for two reasons: they have sex in a higher risk category (bb anal) and second that they are getting tested in the first place. There also appears to be some evidence that there are a high number of people who are infected but don't know it, and that this is in the younger population. We do see studies that show that the highest incidence of chlamydia appears to be in the 14-20 year olds. I would think that a 15 or 17 year old is unlikely to tell their parents they need a full STD workup when going to the doctor.

Perhaps you should direct these providers to the STI health nurse or experts. I can't remember the last time any expert said to not use lube in the condom, in fact everything I had read or seen says that it is recommended. It helps not just with sensation, but helps the integrity of the condom to not get breakage. I can't imagine an sp not finding out the facts about this. What they can NOT use is oils or oil based lotions in this manner. Additional Comments: I was also going to say that the topic originally was about bbbjs in general, and also about asking do sps feel pressured to provide them. I take this also to apply to sps who provide them due to this pressure as well as sps who do not provide them being pestered for them even after they have said it is not available. If every second enquiry is asking if bbbjs are available, any sp is eventually going to figure out that if the answer was 'yes' every time, she'd most likely get more appointments. It also reminded me, when someone said that cbjs should cost less than bbbjs, well, here's the thing, out here at least. bj only sessions tend to be not just the cheapest service available, they are most often done bbbj. 40 bucks, 50, maybe 60, come in, get off, get out. So how much less is a cbj only session supposed to cost? Another thought came to me reading some of the comments here, which basically is if you as a client do not want an sp to provide bbbjs only because she feels pressured to do so (not that she would ever let you know that), then stop asking for them. When you contact her, don't ask, just accept what is provided. If she offers it, turn her down and ask for a cbj. If you really are uncomfortable with an sp's motives for providing any higher risk activity, then be that guy who doesn't do it, doesn't ask for it, doesn't accept it. See what happens. And fwiw, lets see what happens to the laws around prostitution in Canada. Licensing is getting to be more common, regulations of the business may not be far behind. If/when that happens, you can bet the number one thing covered by regulations is Occupational Health and Safety, and there is no way that uncovered services of any kind is going to be allowed, meaning only that if it is it won't be advertised and it won't be something people can ask for before showing up for the appointment. (given that services that are not permitted will likely still be available that is, what should change is what is in ads)

um, what??

As a safe cbj provider, I have to disagree with this, mostly because I find and have found that I have to justify and prove my choice a lot more often than the bbbj provider has to. I actually don't feel like I should have to defend myself for stating the facts, and then turn around and have yet another person not actually read the risk chart which is fairly obvious and not biased account of what actually happens, tell me that I am wrong about the risks lol. If someone tells me they do it with full knowledge of the risks fine, but when they tell me they do it because they claim to not 'like' the taste of condoms I have to say that's marketing BS because it is a really lame reason, imo.

Chart for everyone, but I think someone was specifically asking for it a few posts ago. http://www.sfcityclinic.org/stdbasics/stdchart.asp I want everyone to repeat after me, 10 times, then write it out 1000 times, over and over until we all get this one significant point: HIV/AIDS IS NOT THE ONLY STI/DISEASE YOU CAN GET OR PASS WITH UNPROTECTED SEXUAL ACTIVITIES. Personally I think that people who support the bbbjs/bbfs seem to miss this one important fact. Condoms are not only about prevention of HIV/Aids, but every other thing out there, some of which can be with you forever, and many of which, if you are a sex worker, can put you out of business either forever (because you pass it forward) or for one to two weeks during treatment. Chlamydia is not a joke. Gonorrhea is not a joke. Syphillis is not a joke. All 3 of those things can enter and infect the throat, and none of those things get into the throat by bbfs. I was going to add to Samantha's post the point that not just SWs are likely to give into pressure for bbfs for financial need, but that there are enough stories about 'high end' escorts doing the same, usually after an exchange of test results, but still available. I have no idea what motivates sps who are intelligent and educated enough to run their own business, but fatally flawed enough to provide this as a perk to one (yeah right) special client, as tho they fear losing him as a client. Then there are the ones from out of the country, who didn't have the benefit of the education, but believe what they are told, who figure that it seems to be a perk out here, something like greek they can get an extra 40 on top of the little amount they get to keep of that 100/45 minute appt. Is it common out here, probably not as easily obtainable as it seems to be in other cities, but it is still done by the full spectrum, upper class, middle class, lower class, and street workers.

You can't really generalize. For my own opinion stated in the past as well, and from what I can read by Alyssa, and even others who have admitted succumbing to the pressure to do bbbjs, many do not find bbbjs risk level acceptable at all. We don't admin the board and we don't get to decide what is or is not acceptable. There are quite a few ads that say 'No restrictions' from time to time, a code generally understood to be referring to bbfs, but admin on many sites disagree that No Restrictions means BBFS is available, so what can you do? If you have some facts to support your statement that someone posting about the risks being similar and the same for different stds is not telling the truth and/or fear mongering, please provide a link to back that up. Talking about the facts that stds are very common in giving bbbjs is having a responsible talk about safe sex. I am always curious when someone comes along to try to debate it. With sps who provide the service, they have acknowledged that they know and understand the risks and whether they feel comfortable, pressured, or forced by financial circumstances, it is something that they have chosen to provide regardless of the known risks. I don't like to get into a debate about how bbbjs = bbfs, I don't provide either one of them because I personally have looked at the risks as comparable and unacceptable. It would be my pleasure to see any and all ad sites to forbid the discussion of high risk services, which I include rimming, bbbj, cim, cof, etc. In fact there are a lot of sites that forbid posting any sexual services in ads at all.