fortunateone

And I feel it important to note that 'bawdy house' does not mean 'brothel'. It doesn't mean that any city is going to create brothel licenses or issue new body rub licenses which they may or may not have available. The distinction can be important, and don't expect your neighbourhood massage parlour to start sending out flyers with acronyms of available services. mps are governed by city business licensing, and unless one has a body rub license that are not legally permitted to open as a brothel, afaik. The most impact this ruling will have is on independent sps, who currently are concerned about breaking the law by working from home. It may inspire them to stop renting hotel rooms (risky in all sorts of ways), and possibly share apartments with one or two others with peace of mind.

What do agencies do now regarding incalls? I imagine it will depend on the answer to that. I think some folks are assuming that massage parlours will suddenly turn into brothels. Cities are still in control of licensing businesses, that won't change. Some massage parlours have body rub licenses and are legally allowed to do hjs, but nothing beyond that from what I understand. This is not common at all to get such a license, and the majority of mps afaik do the services without the proper city licensing/ It might be possible for those with existing licenses to be able to start doing all sexual services, as they would (assuming complete removal of bawdy house laws) not be breaking the bawdy house law at all. No client would be arrested for being in a bawdy house, no owner could be charged with living off the avails (the other law). I think the main thing is that now, and most sps will finally be comfortable setting up incalls in their own homes or even to rent a 2nd aparment full time and set up one away from home, and no longer assume they are safer doing incalls in hotels. As Samantha points out, a hotel room is not any more legal than your own home, but I have found that a lot of sps think it is. The laws have been sufficiently confusing that the majority of the public also continued to think that prostitution itself is illegal.

I liked that one, were you asked for your opinion. If you are invited for dinner and dinner is made for you at someone's home, you may not enjoy what they enjoy eating. So what. Do they ask you if you liked it, and if not, why would you say that you didnt? Why don't you remember instead to simply thank them for inviting you to their home and providing it for you? Because that is the important thing here. And like someone mentioned above, no one is deliberately making a meal that they know for sure is really bad, and that no one wants to eat. They have invested time and effort into pleasing a guest. Anyone who comes in, sits down at the table, then proceeds to show how ungrateful they are for this should never be invited back. Showing manners isn't lying, it is what adults do in polite society. Canadians possibly more so than others, but still, very few people go out of their way to ensure someone else feels bad for something they have done, or something that they cannot control. Constructive suggestions are helpful, but they need not be delivered with a blunt force instrument. cc, I like that you brought the topic back to yourself. I was curious because I think among the first posts you had were responding to some fairly negative comments about yourself. As far as the original posters were concerned tho, those comments were 'brutally honest". But they were honest, in their own minds, not yours. So if you put that out there, wanting to be brutally honest is going to be only according to your own version of events. And your version, like the guys who post 'brutally honest" comments, may not even be the real truth.

I was thinking by #4 maybe he means that the sp ad, in they way you also describe here, has made the effort to fix the spelling, grammar, punctuation, and/or to ensure that what she is trying to say is being said. colloquial might refer to using a lot of slang and short cuts. If a guy was looking for a professional type of sp (by that term I mean someone who cares about good customer service, and more), he would ignore any ads written in text speak: r, u, cum, gr8, etc, and a ton of spelling errors, not just a few typos. If an ad is only 8 sentences or statements long, how much time can it take to fix it up. It is just putting your best foot forward, it is the very first impression you make. For clients who don't really care about these little details, it won't matter that the sp takes this time and effort. But for the other half of the potential clients out there, it makes a difference and it might mean they call the sp, so increasing its effectiveness. Here is an excerpt from an ad posted on another site. I have actually fixed the spelling errors because I can't remember them, but the entire ad was a mess: "Collage student in need of help to pay for school intuition." It may not be a surprise to anyone that the same advertiser used fake pics, spelled out their phone # so it wouldn't be found to match to other ads, multiple names and set up multiple accounts when the prior accounts got blocked for various rule violations. So many ads have so many clues that many savvy clients learn by trial and error. A great sp needs to take care that her presentation doesn't get her lumped into the 'avoid these ones' piles that good clients make on first impressions based on their ads.

On forums, I use fortunateone, I like to be called FO, an endearing term really. A mark of respecting my handle, as my sp name has been used as an insult on other boards. I am daughter, sister, aunt, great aunt (!), and friend. I am opinionated, bossy, and yet compassionate and kind. I have strong ideas about justice and fairplay, and get highly agitated when people lie, slander and trash others. I don't tolerate evil, or arrogance for that matter. I have a college degree in business, have worked in a wide variety of types of industries, and lived almost my entire life on the west (wet) coast. I was born in the shadow of mountains, live now in the same shadows, and the only time I lived out of the country, it was in a valley surrounded by volcanoes, so still 'mountains'. I cannot imagine living without the ocean. I have a very functional family, don't drink, don't smoke, don't take drugs, used to be totally vegetarian AND organic foods (not so much now), and if addicted to anything, it is a well made latte. I don't much like cooking, but I can bake many things. I try not to do much baking, because I can also eat many things. I love movies, and cannot imagine a world without them.

I think the main thing is that we can't apply the same brush to all sps. There are escorts (who excel at the longer dates, and being companions, plus the intimacy). For those 'elite' courtesan sps, their marketing reflects that. Their professional poses and photos are meant specifically to attract the type of client who is looking for someone who is putting in that extra effort (and investment) into their business. Other sps have to balance the work with school, family, even another job, so investing time and finances into that level is not profitable for them. Even taking an evening or weekend away from their other life is not possible. Even age or style of service is a factor. For sps like me, it doesn't actually make sense to have pro photos, websites etc. On the topic of words, words in advertising are extremely necessary. As mentioned, someone using 'elite', a client pursuing more information, discovers the rates are out of his range. Even before that, he has an understanding that the word would mean her rates would be out of his range. So the word, in the ad, is doing its job. It sends the signal to anyone that the sp's rates are going to be on the upper end. Just as 'upscale' refers to location of incall, means that the location is going to be very nice. A 5 star hotel type of nice, compared to a Travelodge motel type of OK. 'Classy', imo, is a signal that the sp is not going to tolerate graphic language, and does not provide anything close to PSE or high risk services. Also trying to avoid really rude callers. Sensual, the same sort of impression. Just as 'mature' is used to try to reduce the number of rude and younger callers. Words have the power to convey what the sp cannot show. And they are meant to leave a particular impression and tone. Words that do not work, imo, are "Hottest", "You won't be disappointed", "you'll leave wanting more" (which how that is supposed to be a good thing, I am not sure), "The Best", "#1 in the city", and variations on that theme. Some things cannot be shown, until you meet. These are things that are hard to live up to, and usually result in extreme disappointment.

There are massage parlours with body rub licenses, this allows touching. If you are concerned, you might want to ask what kind of license they have.

This is my point of view on this issue. I feel that the husband who spends lunch hours in deep emotional conversation with a co worker, and takes time away from his SO and family after work with that person (no sexual contact whatsoever) is much more of an erosion of the married relationship than that same guy taking an hour every couple of weeks to see an sp for a quick tuneup. I think somehow that sexual monogamy is supposed to be the benchmark of all relationships, but yet there are swingers, bi women who get married, bi men who get married, and polyamorous groups, and so on. There doesn't have to be 'one way' for a marriage to work, and if it works because someone has sex with a person not their spouse, then why argue with something that works?

Here's hoping each day gets a little brighter, as spring comes so shall warmth in your heart grow as time goes by.

I find this question is quite regional. In the Vancouver area, it is rare any sp sets up in a hotel, unless she is visiting. Even very part time sps who cannot work from their own home for some reason will take the time to either share an incall apartment or rent one, then rent out on a day by day basis with other sps when not in use. I don't know of any (outside of the mini brothel style) where more than just the one sps is in that location at any time. (if there were, I think they either leave the apt for someone else's appt, or are out of sight out of mind. If someone is at a motel, it would be assumed she was a big risk to visit (or from out of town and doesn't realize that BCers are snobbish about motels and sps, and of course the history is that sps locally use them on a per hour arrangment lol) The same assumption is typically made of someone in a house, especially in certain areas. They would be considered a high risk incall, due to all the rooms, being on the ground floor, etc. A very reputable sp can pull that off, of course. But reputable and well reviewed and well established sps can break a lot of assumptions lol. Outcalls to hotels are usually because the client is actually staying at the hotel from out of town. Otherwise most outcalls I believe have the sp going to his actual home or apartment. Most incall sps either rent a separate location or work from home, and the majority with no ill effects. No LE interference or risk of exposure, for the majority of sps the majority of time (always some kind of exception, I am sure). From time to time, some entrepreneur arranges an apartment in a condo that they rent out on an hourly basis to sps unable to secure their own incall location, or where a hotel room may be impossible or not cost efficient. My main point being, that every effort is to provide an incall location that is not a hotel room. Those who can't do any of the options above, would very likely work at a massage parlour, since I can't think of any other viable alternatives here..

As an independent you can certainly do that. But an agency or mp booker should not be discussing services on the phone. They could refer to a tip rate or range tho. Legally, I believe they have to avoid these discussions, and if they don't, could potentially be talking to LE, which could potentially lead to a bust. just a word of caution to anyone calling and expecting full disclosure, and getting miffed if they don't get it.

Actually escort agencies are not legally permitted to provide employees who offer sexual services to their clients. There is no reason why an agency owner could not be charged with exactly the same things as a pimp is charged with. Especially if the escort agency is providing incall locations, like paying for hotel rooms etc. I kind of get what you are saying tho. One of the reasons the laws were challenged was that sps were not legally permitted to pay anyone to help monitor their safety and security. The laws specific to 'pimping' tho don't really refer to security, as much as they are referring to forced sex work, intimidation and coercian, and procuring. If you wanted to pay someone to take care of the details of marketing, advertising, as well as to be security, that person would be your employee if you are doing it from that perspective. If someone approaches you and suggested you should do sex work so you can both make money off of your work, then punish you if you don't make quota, and in addition takes all of the money that you do make, that is pimping. Agencies take a fee, but they don't take the entire thing, nor do they beat people up if they get sick and can't work one day.

I think SofV is in Halifax. I agree this guy seems like a nervous type. Also, my cynical side says he booked a week in advance deliberately, then strung you along until he knew it would be too late for you to book someone else. I suggest instead of turning away other interested clients, instead ask them if they would like to know if you have any last minute availabiltiy, and that you can send by email within a certain time usually on the same day if you have an opening, then they can phone you to let you know. You will know the approx times, or the 2nd person wanting an already booked time would just be contacted if something goes sideways. In this case, you didn't hear from this guy at the time you ask for confirming. At that time, you simply would have set up the time for the 2nd client. When the first one finally calls you 3 hours ahead, you would simply tell him that time is no longer available. If you do have an alternate, suggest it to him and tell him the only way to book it is by phone, and he needs to provide the #. If not, you cannot set any time for him. It is almost impossible to prevent no shows/no calls. You can only set up a booking process that will help both deter the true time wasters (fake bookings) and reduce the impact of these types of callers. fwiw, I never give out exact location to any new caller that far in advance. They get sent to cross streets within 5 minutes of me, then call from there for the exact address. I would say giving it out to someone who does not commit to getting to the cross streets may open you up to some problems when you are working out of a hotel incall. You don't want someone getting that info many hours in advance, then come to it early and wait around watching to see if they can catch sight of you prior to the appt. (again the supsicious side of me rearing up here)

Sps who do have FB accounts with loose privacy settings might want to consider that at some point someone who knows they are an sp and knows them privately may have a falling out with them, and that person will or can decide to expose them. Happens more often than one would hope, and isn't usually a client exposing the sp, but more like a friend or family member, ex roomate, or someone who benefited from their working in some way then had those benefits cut off.

afaik, that is why they will focus on multi person setups with obviously foreign sps. Investigations can take months, including visiting the location, and I suppose phone calls for rates/services. All that for one single lady in her own apartment, no. Easy tho to target sps working in a more public location like hotel rooms, far too many ppl around. (in other words, I don't get why someone does this lol, as it seems just ripe for management calling LE).

Yes, there have been a number of news shows and documentaries. Scarlett of Scarlett's House and Sue Davis have both appeared on some. There is a fairly good one that deals with both street work, mid range, and higher end hotel type escort. I found it very balanced, neither anti nor pro, just showing real people doing real things. i believe this particular W5 story was about a very specific and don't forget very real part of the sex trade as well. The one that is exploitive and pimped and violent. Even in this day and age when any woman can set themselves up if they have a phone # and a computer, there are still that kind of guy out there who deliberately try to lure young (as in money maker) women into it, maybe not against their will, but making it sound like a more glamourous thing than what it turns out to be. It could be glamourous, if you are not burning out or humiliated or told to work healthy or ill, by some guy sitting on his ass. Cathouse, on HBO, is one part train wreck and one part happy hooker stories. The ladies are clearly making money for the fat bastard who runs the place, but seem fairly happy doing what they are doing to get it. Others; http://www.thepromotionpeople.ca/clients/brothelproject.htm http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/passionateeyeshowcase/2008/ladysguide/

I am not sure from the guy perspective, but I am not sure about doing this for that particular reason. It can relieve a feeling of loneliness, and relieve stress, but it may also leave a bitter aftertaste. It might depend on the feelings surrounding the breakup. Sad feelings will cause different reactions than bitter and angry ones. The angry ones will probably benefit from a nice revenge PSE sort of encounter, but sad ones maybe just want a gentle massage session without expectations, and someone to listen.

I don't understand why she would exaggerate the $$ by such farfetched amounts, unless she meant to say per month. Or even in a week. The other thing is I don't understand why she then started talking about Euros, instead of just saying what it was in $$. Maybe she is not good with numbers, because she is saying she made 66,000. In one night. Now I can see if someone gave her a luxury car, that was valued at that price, on lease or something. I just don't see the point of pulling such crazy numbers out of the air like that. The general public will think that even making a couple of thousand on one appt, or one day is already crazy money, so why push it so far? It will only encourage young women to get into the business, thinking they can do one weekend and bank 20 grand. Sps who don't mind pulling all nighters with coke heads can usually make a great deal of money, for doing very little, as the guy (often can afford the drug, so has a lot of cash on hand?) doesn't want her to leave, wants someone to hang out with while he is high, needs a hand to hold as he gets a paranoid or whatever. Plus he has no sense as to how much he is spending.

I have heard one lady who worked at an mp say that there was a drawer filled to the brim with stuff like watches, etc. They were required to do the service without the cash tho, with collateral, so basically the facility gets their door fee, the lady gets ripped off. About the only advice is already given: ladies who accept post payment will get ripped off. Ladies who always get prepaid, never do. She has to choose if she is going to allow someone to do that, or not. And once a rip off guy knows of the sps who accept post payment, they will and deliberately go to visit those ladies. I would rather have a guy give the 'forgot the wallet in the car' excuse before services are provided, than afterwards.

I agree. There will be a buzzer entry, just use that and try not to shout out the sp name and/or apartment number while at the front door of the building.

That is a milestone. Always appreciate your POV. :icon_biggrin:

That is why it is so important to be discrete. I think some indy sps can get neighbour complaints, if they are not careful about how many ppl are coming in and out of their apartment, plus hours of the day. I think LE is mostly concerned with that when there are multiple sps in one location, which leads them to think of trafficking, living off the avails, and illegal foreign workers. This is a much bigger bust than one single sp working out of her apartment and seeing 3 clients throughout the day 5 days a week even. A shop setup is going to have 4-5 sps working out of it, and seeing 4 to 8 clients EACH. That is not something that can be hidden away.

:lol: too funny Many people stop thinking at HIV, and assume that is the only STD out there so only care about the transfer methods for HIV. Ignorance is bliss I suppose. http://lifelube.org/experts/comments.php?DiscussionID=25 As someone I have seen a couple of times before asked me recently can I do a bbbj, because as he says he is "clean". When I replied "How do you know?" and "When was you last test?" just a little smile, before I change the subject. Basically, "how do you know?" is you don't. Taking unnecessary risks because you think you know with a non-pro is one thing, but to do it with someone who is always and often taking those same risks with many other trusted individuals, has just increased your own risk level 1000x

They do this often in Alberta, I believe the driver has to have a city license maybe? Not sure, but most stings are city bylaw officers contact an sp advertising (who does not have a license or does not provide the license # in her ads), and bust her for working without a license, and at the same time were able to charge the drivers without licenses. http://www.globaltoronto.com/police+nab+17+in+escort+sting/40189/story.html They do not seem to attempt to bust for federal laws tho