fortunateone

I agree. I've had both responses, and sometimes from the same person just different visits. I would suggest you start things off with some basic chat, and feel how things go. Make it a habit to further conversations you had with that person on his last visit as well. I usually do the standard cliche topics of weather and traffic to get the ball rolling lol. If new, then what sort of work do they do. This helps me decide what area of their back would benefit from more attention, or even to spend more or less time on their legs. Also interested in if they do any sports, for the same reason. If at the beginning you are getting one word answers, then you slowly drift away to silence. If you are getting questions back, then you move onwards. At some point you do need to get quiet. I usually start being quiet by the time I reach the legs, and spend more time on letting them feel the sensations before turning the touch more sensual.

May I just suggest that you seek a MINIMUM of 2 sps, preferably two that know each other and would be willing to attend together. That will double your budget, and I think you can understand why it would be inappropriate for you to think that one sp outnumbered by so many guys, gentlemen or not, for any event would put her at risk. At the very least, you should expect on site in the room security, and you may prefer the option of the 2nd sp over driver Dave in the corner lol. For three hours, outside of any other expectations, you should offer 500-600, bottom line. If you are not, you should expect her to charge that. If you simply want topless dealers/bartender, there have in the past been adult entertainment services that would set you up with that. There would be no side jobs (i.e. hjs and bjs) of course. The rate would no doubt be significantly lower. At this point, I would suggest that you do the work, rather than expect sps to contact you. For one thing, sps screen the clients who are coming to see them themselves, they see them one on one and both have a vested interested in discretion and mutual respect of privacy. There is no such implied contract in this scenario. We have some guys who will be meeting the sps, what they look like, working name etc, with no vested interest in keeping silent about it all, if you know what I mean. Are you prepared to provide all enough info about all of the attendees to the sps who express interest, knowing that afterwards she may decline? Will you allow her to contact them individually if that is how she screens? Not sure what is in the air today, but this is the 3rd thread I have seen on different boards with this similar theme. Up to and including the reference to the side deals. This is poker, the other a stag. Not sure what to think about that kind of coincidence.

I could care less lol. I can use the change for the laundry, transit, whatever, its no big deal if you have the coins, but I draw the line at quarters, and the other line is the entire amount can't be in coins, but up to twenty bucks, no big deal. That's the thing, this is a business. No, I don't make change or exchange US $ as I am not a bank, but taking care of business means taking care of discussing the $$ and not trying to dress it up like a date, imo. I have no problem taking care of the business, without envelope (save a tree!!), as long as we aren't discussing getting an additional discount. So if the OP said, well, I've got 240 or I can give you the 250 if you'll accept loons, I can't think any sp would really have an issue with that, and if she does, well, what does that tell you (and her) about the possibility of repeating?? lol

I think your success in finding this has less to do with finding professional sps, as it is that you are choosing the particular sps who already offer this style of encounter. If you didn't take the time to look at their ad style, and so on, you would be a lot more hit and miss. If you don't communicate before arrival that this is the sort of session that works best for you personally, and the sp is someone who has a much slower seductive approach, that doesn't make her any less professional, but shows her experience with the majority of clients is that her style works best for them. There is no one right way, and I'd say the overwhelming # of guys who take it slow, enjoying the journey not the SOGs, would not enjoy the sps who go for the gusto from the minute they arrive. All too often they are gone with that first gusto and feel shortchanged by the speed. ;-)

I agree with the risk/benefit, for sure. I don't see the point of taking that kind of risk, but I'd suggest the reward is (or would be) fairly significant, and probably involves an extended visit (weekend to a week), and pre payment of at least half of the donation. So she isn't risking half of it, or any of it if she can find a way to send the money rather than carry it, plus she isn't posting daily ads and setting up in a hotel room in a US city, but rather spending the time with one individual, most likely.

I was just going to reply asking why wouldn't you always have non-fs options at a lower rate. That would cover all the guys who are never interested in fs. I don't agree ever that non-fs sessions should be the same rate as fs with gfe sessions, unless you are doing a kind of gfe non-fs option with kissing, cuddling, bj, daty (assuming not that time of the month, just that you offer the non fs all the time). I think you'd be surprised how much interest you would have in the non-fs option, by which I don't mean a quickie bj at half rate, but a full on erotic massage encounter with a non-fs finish. It's worth a lot to the right clientele, and that clientele is not the same as fs guys or bj guys.

Plus it's not like up here. If you are not willing to provide personal info about yourself (or alternatively join a date-check site, then you will definitely be taking a risk seeing providers who do not check or require references or screening techniques. Meaning you are opening yourself up to the possibility of a sting, or worse. Seeing a professional provider will probably mean providing your employment info, along with full name and phone #s. Plus, 2 references from other sps that you have seen, who are easy to search to be reputable.

I only do last minute appt bookings, at least I require a confirmation call not more than 30 minutes before the desired time, and won't prebook appts at set times for many reasons. However, there is absolutely no possible way for you to do this by email alone. If you phone the sp, then you and she both know you are on your way. If you send an email, you have no idea when she is going to read it, then you are still sitting around waiting for an email back, then back again, it is definitely NOT a good way to manage same day appt bookings. You can, if you think you might have some time coming up within a certain time period, email the day before and ask if the person is available, then both sides confirm it is ok for you to confirm that appt (preferably with a phone call) an hour beforehand, with the understanding that the sp may or may not be available after all, or that there may have to be some time adjustments. If the sp does not have a phone call option, then you will simply have to move onto one who does. It works better for both sides for same day notice, and the ones who do this will have a # for you to call. Other sps may require you to do some prescreening, after which they may be available for you to do a same day appt booking, so you just have to check out your options to find one that works for you. Also, even I don't mind phone calls one or two days ahead, or the morning of, just for the purpose of getting information and to make sure I am in all day, or have other plans.

It is more agency and primarily they have mp locations, and even some indys work with agencies (if they are traveling, for example). MPs outside on Ontario (assumption) are presumed to offer all services not just hjs, fwiw. Pricing often seems awkward. Your budget of 200-250 is fine, you might encounter addons for some services you might assume would be part of gfe. I am thinking the OP has been and gone already lol. I think the names are seductions unlimited, class choice, charlies angels, to get started.

My thoughts on the CL style is that it usually gave an illusion of choice, of choice that actually isn't there. As mentioned the same advertisers posting several times a day isn't variety, it is just a lot of ads by the same people day after day. It also (no offense!) made the viewers lazy. They couldn't figure out that someone who didn't place an ad today was still actually available today, because they didn't see her ad. Considering the flagging, ghosting and account blocking, it was sometimes impossible to get an ad up there, and due to that announcement reliance, she would be assumed to be off that day when nothing could be further from the truth. I would like the time to come where the viewers/clients do not expect a daily announcement, and do discover that an ad placed a week ago is still an ad for a working sp lol. When all the ads were in the weekly newspapers, nobody picked up a paper that came out on Friday and decided on Monday that the ad was no longer valid lol.

Well, to be blunt, for 'pefect" safety, don't do it at all. At this point, your paranoia whether outcall, incall or hotel room rental is destroying any chance at all of relaxing enough to have a good time. This is not something you should be doing. If however, you can stop the scare tactics (on yourself) and actually listen to reality, (not your fanciful imaginations based on American television) then even a tiny bit of common sense will tell you that the chance that LE is sitting around, wiretapping or email inspecting your chosen sps interactions with potential clients enough to narrow down the exact day and time that you plan to show up, then while watching from outside her location (assuming that they have also been monitoring all of your conversations (whether by phone or online) to the point where she has provided her complete address, so they know where to go, after 10 minutes or so of you being welcomed by your chosen sp, they bust down the door of the lobby, and using that same door busting device, then break down her apartment door, and a half dozen officers armed to the teeth, plus one dog for effect, burst into that apartment while you are just starting to relax and start shouting and breaking things, while you scramble into your clothes, hit the ground arms over your head and......... OK, so the other thing that is wrong with that scenario is that not ever not once has such an event ever been mentioned, reported or even reported in the news....for a independent sp working privately from a discrete incall location, on her own. And to answer one question, choose someone in an apartment not a house.

I also saw it around that time mentioned on another site. The idea is to snag guys who are googling escort, massage, sexy, etc, onto the site as tho it is an legit escort site. Then they do an auto search replace to edit the ads. Pretty = ugly; sexy becomes something rude; incall becomes sh*thole; and more. The link that I saw originally was very specific and to the point. It basically said "why pay for escorts when you can hook up for free", and click the link takes you to a dating site. It tries to take all the escort ads and make the ladies look like trashy, skanky, std ridden scare tactic methods, of course.

Yes, you should be researching literary agents and book publishers. You'd start with a Canadian publisher, for hardcover, and then sell the rights for the US and international markets, in hard cover or paperback. But you never start with the selfpublishing route. The major houses have the distribution and the funds to pay for printing and promotion. No need to market your own or pay for it either, imo. You can check out similar theme books and see who publishes them. If you are going to approach agents and publishers tho, you need to make sure your presenting a very tight example. No typos, decent grammar, etc. All submissions need to be double spaced, single side, with a cover letter that presents a brief outline. The submission is not the entire book, just the cover, with a synopsis, and one chapter. Double spacing looks like this an extra space between each and every line. You should find lists of literary agents in the phone book or on a website. Just google canadian literary agents. Same for publishers, if you want to submit on your own directly (not recommended for non-fiction). A reputable or establish agent presenting a topic has more credibility than just over the transom (unsolicited). An agent can submit to a few publishers and start a bidding for the book, getting you the best deal.

For all that and many other reasons, I only book by phone, and all confirmations need to be done voice to voice, not voice to voicemail, by phone. Yes, you can use a payphone or block the #, but if you don't reach me for the confirmation half hour in advance or so, there is no appt. If you choose a payphone or block #, you also have to take the chance that I can't reach you if something goes awry, which could be many things since we last talked. INcluding, once where something went wrong with my phone, I wasn't paying attention to the front door or checking for messages, and someone could not reach me thru calling or intercom. Had he left a # even with the message he left, once I realized the trouble, I could have called him back, especially considering I could see him at the front door walking away (too far for me to get down to the lobby too lol.)

Yes, the stats were selected from a study that only interviewed young street workers (all under 1 8 and only street workers, apparently (although there are few underage indoor workers anyway). And she blames her sex work for her ptsd I believe, but also describes a pretty sad abusive life pre-sex work, so I don't get the connect. She also mentions that she wasn't told what the work involved with her first job in an agency, but this has been debunked on another site by an sp with a lot of experience, who said that in every mp or agency she worked in, the first thing they do is tell you what you are going to be doing, the rates to charge and safety. So based on that and many other things, you know this book is more about saying what she thinks people want to hear, not the truth. As an sp and an employer, she was always very pro sex work on the forums, often defending herself and her practises lol. I believe she was also very manipulative and found ways to "encourage" young women into the work, as a few mentioned being her girlfriend and working in the biz, and she often placed personal ads in w4w, which to me sounds like someone aggressively procuring sps. As mentioned, she did have a few misunderstandings about the legalities, which I think means that something is legal if it benefited her, and illegal if it meant she could control the sps working with her. She was also found out to have an underage girl working in one of her "penthouses", which can only mean she didn't even bother to do an age check. I mean, the majority of people don't do any of the things she did, even agencies and mps don't aggressively seek out civilians and try to get them into the trade. They post ads and interview women who know full well what is up even if it is simply that they place an ad in escort services with a 'hiring now" note on the ad.

Probably someone else responded to this, but on the other hand, mps aren't making minimum wage, since the employer isn't paying them. As tiff says, if they had no clients, they have no money at all. I am pretty sure this is illegal, and wondered how the owner of these places can get away with having no employees on the payroll. added; having read more posts, I would have to say I didn't find the original waitstaff/ma analogy particularly offensive, as I had seen it more to compare two jobs that rely on "tips", and there are few other jobs out there that we all relate to where tipping is automatic and expected, and also the one receiving it really depends on it for a decent wage. And so do the ladies in mps, or so we think. But usually in mps we are aware that the "tip" is for the service, after the room fee is paid and that this is their only income there. I think referring to the payment as "Tip" is what is confusing actually, since it isn't really a "tip" it is actually "payment for services". And as I mention, I can't think of any legal reason why the MA's are not paid minimum wage for their shift times, since a condition of employment is to get a schedule, have to show up for their shift, and be avaiable and prepared for clients. That is a job, and just because there are no clients, doesn't mean they shouldn't get paid. Otherwise, they should be able to hang out in a nearby cafe and only come back when clients show up, or stay home and come in when there is an appt. The fact they are given specific hours to be there, and may not even just be able to show up when they feel like it, all that makes them employees and the employer is getting off easy since they don't have to pay anyone wages, just collect money when people show up.

And even if he does, under a different email, well it won't take long for the OP to recognize him at the door and advise of the new pay-before-play policy. Plus this gentleman will be required to double the fee, to pay back for last time. It always comes as a shock to sps when a regular rips them off, but it shouldn't. Typically they do wait for the comfort level to increase before they play this game, and tho it is really NOT common, it happens often enough especially to new sps, that I sometimes wonder when the idea to allow post payment came along? JUst curious, why had you made the habit of post payment. Did someone suggest this, or was this common in some way in where or how you were working? I've always been prepay, and know very few who are not. Even the envelope should be checked before the session, imo, since that is also a place where these disreputable guys will short change. Again, NOT commonplace, but it happens. Also, never assume a board member of any forum is more legit or trustworthy than any other client. That is something a disreputable client will use to lure in unsuspecting sps. ' Also noted a comment in post #19, "its happened to us all", and have to disagree. It has never once happened to me, giving service without payment, because I have never once done a session without prepayment. It is a simple problem with a simple solution -- as mentioned, sometimes asking to get the business out of the way, comes up with an excuse of forgot the wallet, in which case, you know if they don't then come up with some $$, then they intended to get the session without paying for it, going after the fact for the wallet and not returning. there is little incentive after the play for someone who is now no longer in need of attention to produce the compensation, lol.

It's not illegal for you to discuss or post rates/services in ads. I haven't checked but it simply might be the policy of this particular site to not allow rates in ads, so you should feel perfectly free to provide that info to anyone who pms, or direct them maybe to your EC ad for more info than you can provide by pm? I just got the impression that you think that sex work is illegal, with that reference to LE, and you should be assured that it is not. When discussing things in public, that pretty much means what happens with a street worker situation, not someone asking or providing the information on a phone call, or email.

I soooooo agree with you here. I find it creates a distance, and for such an intimate encounter, and when you consider the extra immediacy only available from voice to voice, nuance, tone, and politeness, it just lacks so much. Also, I am highly suspicious. A text can be sent and received by anyone anytime. I watched a movie once setting up someone via text pretending to be someone the person knew. It could be any gender answering/sending. It has history, so it could be a recording of setting up incall, giving address, rates, services, etc etc. It just seems like a very bad idea. Anything other than a direct phone call seems to be tediously lengthy, to do something than can take a very short time and turn it into an hour of back and forthing, in short spurts, lol. Oh, and as anyone can see, I find it difficult to keep to short messages and compact sentences lol.

I don't really understand your comments. cerb allows recommendations, which you post if you wish to recommend someone to others. So cerb is not stopping you from posting good comments ... you are stopping yourself from posting them, isn't that right? You seem to have made a choice to allow the 80% of good sp encounters you have had to be influenced by the fact that you cannot also write bad reviews of the 20% you have seen. Rather than just posting recommendations of these 80% you want to somehow make a "protest" about the policies of a site you, of your own free will, decided to join in spite of its policies, and are now trying to subtly (?) complain about the same policies that were there when you joined. Just seeing if I am following what you are saying, lol. I think the only person who might be suspicious of a recommendation from you is you. The rest of us would enjoy seeing them, especially from your area, if they are good experiences, and if the sps are not getting recos from anyone else, why would you not want to do this for them?

I agree, the use of nonpro is very irritating to me. You're a nonpro until you get paid, and you can never be a nonpro more than once lol. I tend to think as others do that guys looking for the non-pro or seeking out those ads are doing so because the "pros" see right thru them, won't let them get away with anything, and typically in my mind these guys are looking to get away with something, and a reduced rate. They want someone who does not know not to provide certain services, not to understand their own worth, and not to have other reasons to watch the time, and who compare a hundred bucks for a few hours is way better than 50 bucks for working a straight job for 6 hours. On the other hand, I've seen lots of pros use the nonpro as an advertising tool, to attract these guys. When they provide rates, you will find they are by the hour and pretty standard lol. They may be trying to appeal to the guy who is uncomfortable with the idea of pay for play, who wants to believe he is seeing someone with little experience, like himself, and maybe the illusion she needs him more than he needs her, that he is "helping her out". The Sugar Daddy wants to feel important. He tends to be older, and likes to have someone younger and pretty to go out with and spend time with, something like a trophy to show off. she is compensated by not having to deal with multiple clients, advertising, schedules, etc etc, and can (usually) concentrate on her education or the non-money making thing she does (maybe artist, etc). Her expenses and an allowance are paid; and they have an arrangement of the # of visits and when and for how long already set up. Maybe she goes pro and sees other clients, but usually not. A real professional SB is doing this so she does not have to see multiple guys, regardless of the increased income it would provide. Personally, I find it anti-pro-sex-work, this sort of nonpro and/or SD/SB setups. They seem to work on stereotypes of sex workers being bad, or sketchy, or hard. I think that sex workers as independent business owners are the epitome of "radical feminists" lol.

Yes, sps are definitely posting in the therapuetic section of CL. I had heard some suggest the casual encounters, but that is just a WOT since what we are doing is a business, and as such, we have no business posing as potential free dates lol. Therapuetic is where escort ads started out; erotic services were created after it became clear sps would use it. I hope the RMTs etc are not too pushed out; it is a darn shame this happened, cuz as mentioned the escort ads are going to keep posting. It won't take long for guys to check out the service section, looking for erotic, and click on all the other options and find the ads in therapuetic after all. I almost feel like suggesting that no sp post in one of the city sections of TS, and allow the RMTs and licensed advertisers a place to go without being flooded with ads for bjs and sexy times. Pic or no pic, there is always a way for an ad to be posted. I missed one client on Saturday who uses CL to find my #, even tho I have seen him multiple times, because common CL practise is to not save #s lol. They just check the ad daily or when they are on the road and know they have time. Another called me a half hour or so ago, saying "I found you!" lol. He didn't even want to make an appt right then, he'd just been looking for the ad for later on or tomorrow and got worried to see the section was down, and again, didn't have the # saved (not on that phone anyway). I just hope people realize that whatever it was intended to do, it isn't going to do it, and that it took about 24 hours for most to find the alternative on the same site. Whether the clients are going to be able to find the ads is another story. As mentioned many CL users are not experienced hobbiests, who have all the escort ad sites and review forums bookmarked, and due their homework before making a call. They just saw the ads by chance, and I think most sps who use the site often are quite appreciative of the fact that so many guys saw the ads, put a sense of legitimacy and normalcy to this business, and made that first call to see their first ever sp. It opened up the business to many guys who probably had the typical stereotypes in their minds; rather than something to be furtive and ashamed of, trying to find info in the back pages of a newspaper, or on a street corner somewhere, and not really knowing enough about the internet to find other direct sp ad sites, nor being confident enough to just enter "escort" "city name" into google and see what happens lol. And many established sps used CL as just one of a few or many different advertising venues. Newer sps without the $$ or experience yet (or even the computer know how or business know how) could also use it, just the same as that new to this client. From there, if it worked for them, they would then eventually find out about other sites to advertise, pro pics, websites, and all the rest of becoming a full time professional. You have to start somewhere, and somehow the idea of spending several hundreds of dollars to set up on something so personal before knowing if you will be able to do it seems a bit over simplified.

I agree with your points. To me, outside of the "naughty" words which CL blocks (btw, naughty is one such word), there is no excuse for bad grammar, punctuation, use of ALL CAPS, and spelling errors. It is an advertisement, not a text message to friends after all, and the person posting it is running a business (her own or maybe it is an agency posting ads). There is no excuse good enough for a shabby presentation in advertisements, imo. Because at the end of the day (seen here in this thread) for those it matters to it matters a GREAT deal, and for those it doesn't matter to it won't make much difference. But for the first group, they will not see such an sp. For the 2nd group, they will see an sp who spells correctly too. So the sp who spells correctly, takes the time to present herself professionally, will see guys from both groups. The sp who does not, will only see half of the potential clients. So, an sp who does not take the time and care to write a proper ad is not taking her business seriously. An sp who does not take her biz seriously may be assumed to be an unprofessional and unconcerned sp in general in every aspect of that business, meaning she can be assumed to provide bad service. Yes, a lot of assumptions, but what else does a reader have to go on other than that first advertisement, and what she has chosen to do and not do when posting the ad? The thing is, for the clients representing the first group, that is exactly what they assume. They will stick to the sps who advertise as Angela mentioned, and they will take the time to tell the sp exactly why they are contacting her. (I get the same comments all the time as well). So an sp can choose to be complimented and chosen based on the quality and care she takes with this initial presentation (the Ad), or she can sit around and wait for the guys from the 2nd group to check out her ad. 8)

I spent more time in a chat room on another board earlier this year, and primarily the chat was about current events etc, and for guys and sps to chat in real time, maybe about topics on the board etc, and for jokes and fun chatting. I suppose it can't be used as a tool for booking appts, but I don't think it is the best use of it, since I think sps would rather be approached via their stated contact methods, not because they happen to be in chat. I find what you describe to be the equivalent of the obscene phone call. These guys are trying to get off by engaging you in a conversation, and have no intention of contacting you directly, booking an appt, and making a real effort to meet you. Frankly, I find it offensive, as I would find the same "can you help me out" comment on the phone offensive. The example you give is of a person very few sps would choose to see, so in a way, he is doing you a favour by showing what kind of guy he is, if you want to look on the bright side of it lol..

That's my POV too. when it comes down to it, exactly how much lower do they expect to be paying? In some instances, it is for the sake of 20 bucks. I have said this a few time: If 20 bucks means that much to you, or is that hard to part with, keep it and the remainder and do something else with your time lol. Or to the guy who claims they were hoping to find something for 50-60? Good luck with that :roll: cuz unless they plan to drive around and have someone hop into their car, 50 is not getting much in this biz. THIS IS NOT AN ESSENTIAL SERVICE lol. This is a luxury, a treat and pleasure, not unlike going to a concert, game or special event. would you do any of those things 3 times a week, and therefore need a serious discount? Of course not, so why would anyone expect or ask for a discount because they want see sps 3 x a week, so they need the sp's rates to be lower than what she charges?? There is an sp out there at just about every price point, and with a variety of services, shapes, ages, etc. I find it hard to believe anyone has to barter and bargain with each and every one of us in order to find someone who will provide at a rate the bargain-seeker can afford. If the rate doesn't work for you, thank the sp and move on to the next advertisement. But if you want to see that particular sp, find the $$ she is asking for. She is not here to accomodate your budget; she is in business to provide her services at a rate that she already knows is appropriate for her. Note about posting rates, I don't see any reason for an sp who has rates to post them with the services, etc, and not really sure why this site has a no rate policy? I am thinking maybe in recos, in the case where a rate might change or the client may misquote the correct rate leading to misunderstanding, but for the sp herself to post the info is that not permitted for some reason? On CL ads, it really is, altho yes you see it alot, but for an sp to not post in a CL ad just means she is paying attention lol, and she wants you to specifically contact her so she gives them to you directly. There shouldn't really be a big problem with this -- a lot of times, sps leave out info in order to steer a client into contacting her in the way she wants to be contacted as a form of prescreening. went off on an unrelated tangent there lol