fortunateone

She may have more restrictions to reflect a lower rate, or the lower rate may be fewer services, and the PSE style is still around at the usual rate. Sometimes it is best to ask her directly, mention you have seen her before tho, cuz it makes a difference.

Use tineye.com to check out the pics. My guess is that some are fake pics, and some are real. Usually anything that looks like a professional shoot is fake. Also, there is a good chance they just post names and info, and the girls actually circulate between here, Toronto, Vancouver, Alberta. YOu might have a hard time booking Betty, for example, for multiple visits and end up getting someone else lol. That is the trade off. If you expect that to happen, then you are pleasantly surprised when it does not.

Once sps consider this not a business relationship, however friendly it becomes, then they are dating that client, imo. If they do not wish to cross that personal line, then they will always always ensure pay for play, and payment at the beginning of the appt, not afterwards. It is there because, at the end of the day, she needs to pay her bills, and needs to do that in order to be available on a daily basis like this. Seeing someone for "free" means she is unable to respond to inquiries or book an appt with a paying client. She may be saying yes for fear of somehow offending the client who is asking for the comp, play now pay later, and goes thru with it. To me, this is not a good enough reason. If she wants to do a buy 10 get one free card, then that is her decision, and she can offer that as a perk. But she should never be approached or asked for this, imo. It is similar to booking an appt, knowing you are short, but showing up anyway and telling her after the fact. Be up front, let her decide if that is ok or not ok, and then book the appt if she agrees. To me, it is just respectful, and the other, comping, is manipulative and not something that is desireable in a client, imo.

Hey, I know that guy!! lol To the OP, no, never, nunca, there is really no reason to do that whatsoever, regardless of the circumstances. If they will have the cash later in the week, then by all means come to see me, but no, it is not acceptable to ask. It would be exactly the same as going to your favourite daily coffee place (owner operator, not a chain, for the example) and saying you don't want to pay today, but you want your coffee anyway. Basically, if you would not do it then, or at the grocery store, or the gas station, why to an sp? Basically it comes down both to respect for the service and that this is a luxury, not a necessity. It is certainly something he can do without for a day or two until the funds are actually in hand, right? :confused:

I usually would just say, hi, I'm returning your call. My # is always blocked, so if he has called a few people, then he will ask who is calling, and we go thru the info. I usually reply to all polite emails that my advertising tells them to phone for details. I include the phone #. I do not reply to 2 word emails. I do not allow texting, for the same reason. Personally, I need the voice to confirm gender and sincerity and courtesy. Emails and texts can be abused, and have been. For the OP, you should simply do whatever it is that you request for contact. If you do not request them to send their phone #, but prefer them to email you or phone you themselves, then just remind them of that. Don't bother calling them. To me, it could well be they are not providing you with a legitimate phone # (no name included) and you might end up in a very awkward conversation with who knows who. If you are ok with a phone call, email them back with your # and tell them to call. For someone who does not give a good call back time, the basic rule is one hour. If you return it within an hour (always block your number, do not say Hi, Its Sexy Sadie calling to book you for that PSE you are looking for, just say you are returning their call (no names used, his or yours) and hope you are calling at a convenient time), otherwise no. If you have varied hours, but your ad is out there, just change your voice mail message so anyone leaving a message hears your hours. as in, I'm not available right now, but if you leave a message I can return your call after 4PM, or call back after 4:00 to speak to me directly. If they leave a message then, and don't give a time, then you can be assured they can take the call.

This is one of the many "No Go" zones, on both sides actually. There is no good excuse for discussing anything personal or even going so far as to ask exactly where someone works, if they have kids, or whatever. You only talk about what the other brings up, and never ever ask about anything whatsoever that they do not, regardless of whether you can see a ring on their finger, or if they showed up in coveralls with the name of the place they work and their real name on a badge. It may seem crass, but you are paid to keep your mouth shut, fulfill the fantasy, and there are very very few guys who actually want their wives brought into their session, imo. There are also very few who want to talk about what they do for a living, or have someone ask them for a favour, or anything that might create a non-fantasy experience.

Totally agree. Same for what clients should be looking for are sps who post their ads between say 7AM and 5PM. Anyone posting at 3AM, well, figure it out. Anyone who cannot shift between upper and lower case, take the time to actually spell "you", take the time to tell you about herself in some way, give you good solid contact info with anything from a real #, real email, website, etc rather than just email to the posting address, all of these things add up to someone who wants to be found, is assured of their abilities and is looking for a professional encounter. Any sps who use it can eliminate a lot of troubles by making their ads tasteful, include a minimum rate, indicate bbbjs are not available, or if non-fs make that very clear. I have found out here that the ones who advertise bbbjs are available have a higher rate of requests for discounts and requests for bbfs, odd as that may seem, they are just considered risk takers, desperate or something. I mean this is a CL ad: She is very well reviewed, 40+, and very part-time. She does not, to my knowledge, advertise anywhere else except for one quieter review site. She uses a fairly tasteful pic. I have removed the contact info tho. It was posted around 8AM, one of 2 ads only. This was posted at 2:30AM: So really, is it that hard to figure out which one of these is going to give you an honest, quality encounter? :-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D

this is the site I was looking for another time. Depending on the time I have and sometimes size, I always do at least some of all of the examples. I do not think there is any of them that I do not do at some point. Some of the techniques are ideal for someone who is PE, because they are so light, slow, or use just a little contact area. :idea:

If you google it you might be able to find a site or two or youtube that shows a variety of "handy" techniques they can use, then just pass it on. Also, give some direction. If they are younger, actually they probably have no clue and little desire to find out more. If they are responsive to direction, they could get a LOT more repeat biz or new biz and be very busy if they find out how to give a truly erotic experience. All you can do is pass on the info and if they have no desire to learn better techniques, to just not return. Personally, I use both hands at the same time, fingertips, wrists, ;) Tease, denial, prolonging things, etc

I think we are agreeing lol. I would not complain about CL because I think it is a great tool (which is why I only rant when someone is complaining about it without actually using it, and so how can they know?) I think that the numbers are so much higher, that it seems like there are so many more problems, when it seems to me that the problems exist in any advertising venue. There will always be good ones and bad ones, good clients and bad ones. They come from all venues. The trick is to not actually have to spend time in an appt with any of them (goes both for sps and clients)

It is ideal for anyone able to do 2sog, because instead of rushing to do the first one, to allow enough time for the 2nd one to happen at all, the first one is a nice pace, plenty of time for everything. The other thing to note is that longer sessions are not really because you are doing fs for 90 minutes straight, or even for doing sexual activities for all that time, but it is about the social component (some may start date like by sitting down, a glass of water or wine, conversation, then move to the boudoir, and the others may start with full body erotic massage (and conversation, icebreaking, etc))

I do not do bbbjs, but I think trimming is better whether cbj or bbbj or even hj. Too much hair just gets in the way whatever the outcome lol. Re: beards, please treat the hair on your face the same as the hair on your head ... soap & water, keep it fresh and smelling good, especially if you are a smoker. I would say give yourself a scrub on arrival, up and down lol

I think because greek is so very hard on the body, and too much can lead to serious issues, that a couple of things might be happening if she is saying that greek is "ymmv". One is that she cannot handle another one that day, or possibly is not prepared for it. If you are looking for this service, advance notice appt might be required or recommended. Two is size. If she considers you too large, for her, she would have to decline. It is better to say ymmv to give herself an out if someone is simply overly large. If you are also asking, what's up with all the greek, then I think it is just trendy. An sp who provides it may do so because it is in demand, she can charge a premium for it, or because she knows most guys will not last nearly as long as they would in fs, so they are in and out faster and she gets extra $$. Very very few women actually get pleasure from it, and in some guys minds, that is the point, plus it is a very dominant position to be in -- getting off, believing there is pain suffered or at least little or no pleasure in it for her. Plus it is quite popular in porn, and as goes porn, so goes the imagination to fulfill lol re: asking about something not on her menu. If her menu is not very detailed, and you are looking for something specific that is not listed, you could ask. If it is very detailed, then do not bother. If she does not have it there, you should assume she does not offer it, or at the very least is not going to provide it to someone she is not seeing regularly. It is not a good idea to ask about things during a session, if it is going to put her in an awkward position right in the middle of things. If you have a good time, want to return, and you are on your way to leaving, you can always ask then, just for your own information. I suggest waiting until after, because it is only afterwards that she will have a good impression of what you are like in a session, and that you are not being rude to ask.

I don't know anyone's circumstances, but there are a couple of things to consider: - women may not be as up for it on the spur of the moment. I have heard that we respond very well to "date nights", i.e. scheduling sex into the week. This way they know about it, are thinking about it, and anticipating it for say Saturday night at 8pm. It is true that the more we have, the more we want, so even just getting her to bump it up to a regular routine can improve the chances of other encounters thru out the week. - For the head scratchy guy, 45 minutes is a very very long time. I have a feeling that this is her way of signalling that she is interested in having sex with you. Next time, do it for 10-15 minutes, then move onto more. Women are really bad initiators, but when they are "in the mood" respond really well to pursuit, imo. - Also, for bjs, keep it clean and soapy all the time. If, every time she does agree to give one you are ALWAYS fresh and minty, she will not have that same reluctance to do it when she in the past always encountered a less hygienic experience lol. You: head to the bathroom, no sound of running water for washing up, come back and say I'm ready for my bj honey, and she is NOT going to want to put her mouth on you lol. It is pretty clear you don't make it all about the sex for the relationship and happiness, and some guys really do use it like that is all they are interested in from her, and she gets resentful of that. But showing you are interested by suggesting counselling or talking about it in a non confrontatiional way can help. At least you know what she is thinking about it.

There are, as mod points out, several sites that have such things and you would still be able to participate and advertise on those sites. Each site has its own set of rules, and if there is one that you have joined or paid for advertising on and they won't respect your wishes, simply withdraw your support and place your $$ and postings elsewhere. If you have a website and/or in your ads just say you have a No Review Policy. Alot of established reputable sps have this because they do not want any new reviews or need them. That means that anyone who books an appt with you agrees as a condition to see you that they will respect that request. These are about all the things you can do. If might be advisable to allow a couple of approved reviews, like on this site, to link into your website for potential clients to refer to, so it is more obvious you aren't refusing reviews due to bad service. You would only want a review, tho, from a well established board member with several reviews behind them. There are a lot of respectful reviewers who will allow you to remove certain things from a review for your privacy or comfort level.

:wink: John's Voice: http://24.85.225.7/johnsvoice/docs/JOHNS_VOICE_GENERAL_RESULTS_EXECUTIVE_SUMMARY_FINAL_DIST.pdf

seekingarrangement.com findasugarbaby.com sugarsugar.com Professional sugar babies are looking for one single benefactor, in exchange for their exclusive time and attention. The terms and conditions are worked out beforehand, and they would definitely not consider anyone who cannot fully afford it, because also at the end of the day they would expect a trip, car, and gifts along the way, and someone who can barely cover their rent and expenses is not going to be able to do that. These are not independent. A woman like that would not choose to depend on one single person to provide their income. The SD does not live with the SB, but visits her. Generally, they work out a schedule like one weekend per month, and 2 overnights, and so on. She might be a student, who gets rent, an allowance for expenses, tuition and books as the arrangement. It is in her best interest to stick to the arrangement, because the apartment is not in her name, etc. She might be pursuing a career that is not making a lot of $$, like acting, modeling, singing, or dancing. They usually present themselves in a submissive way, younger looking for an older gentleman to take care of her. It is completely different from sp/clients who both get to say see you later, and like it that way. It definitely has nothing to do with getting written into the will or living with the guy and probably, but not necessarily, nothing to do with looking for a future husband.

- 30 min not enough time? - start with massage, get totally relaxed and then go from there. Many clients I see do not always get as far as fs, considering the way I do an erotic massage, hj, and so on - do not expect to finish in fs, but at the end move to hj or bj as long as there is no condom. Condoms can add extra stress, imo, for someone who is thinking they are not going to cum. - At the finish, make sure you are NOT on your back. Standing or kneeling is better. - Repeat repeat repeat, meaning choose one sp and keep returning to that one sp until you achieve this goal. Switching partners is almost a guarantee to not get what you are seeking; staying with one sp means that by the 3rd or 4th visit, you will increase your chances of success. Make the first 1 or 2 visits non-fs, and aim for a hj finish. I have found all of the above techniques very successful, and work also well for someone who cums very quickly. The idea is to enjoy the journey.

Everyone has great points. There really are a lot of factors to rates, like location. Altho Vancouver has generally higher rates for sps who closely resemble the Montreal type non-asian sp with their youth, few restrictions, etc. Here, if the same sp was downtown, she would easily charge 300/hr, some would charge and get more. I am thinking of the sps who are 22-24, slim, extremely pretty, offer bbbjs (not all that common in non-asian encounters), GFE to PSE. There is an mp outside of downtown where that rate (cbj mostly) is 320/hr, msog not necessarily provided. There are also a lot of suburb areas within a half hour of dontwown where the rates adjust a bit lower for similar experiences. The # one impression in Vancouver is that because asian micros offer GFE full service at 120-140 for 45 minute sessions, then everyone should if they want to get business. But, primarily, the asian micros only compete with each other, and mostly non-asian sps do not have the same clientele at all. And this is such an individualized personal service, that simple pricing for anyone with interchangeable parts is cheaper (including the b&s, fake ages, and not keeping appts that are set up, shared space with multiple clients & other people in the apartment during your time, complete or nearly complete lack of communication with an sp who does not speak your language & did not agree to the services promised to you, and on and on). That is why non-micro sps do not actually have these as competition, even tho it would seem that their low low rates should drive all rates down to their level. But the reality is that the micros cannot possibly compete with the much more limited supply of non-asian sp who provides honest advertising, individualized and personal service (in your language), and is also someone that you can visit next week, next month, next year, and have a similar experience time after time. So even tho a 40+ sp outside of downtown who does not provide bbbjs and charges almost twice as much as these places still is as busy as she wants to be.

Great points. And please always always always remember that prostitution is NOT ILLEGAL. You will never ever be charged with prostitution, and in an outcall situation like to a hotel room, there is absolutely positively NOTHING that you can be charged with (either the sp or the client, for that matter) But I don't think there would be a problem with having large amounts of alcohol around, tho, is there?

I know I did not see the first thread on this matter, but I do know that a thread like this one that refers to something many readers are not going to know about, that makes some accusations without saying why or explanation and in ALL caps does not generate sympathy. I also think that we might be dealing with a couple of people communicating in English where English is not first language and that it is extremely easy to misunderstand or get offended by something where no offense was intended. I am not saying that this is the case here, but I simply have a hard time understanding why an indy sp would feel like anyone could possibly force them to work for an agency if they did not choose to do so. How are they planning to make her work for them., exactly? Hold a family member hostage? Lock her in a room, and book all her appts for her then escort the client to this locked room? Call up all her appts and cancel them before she meets them? But the sp in question is the one who needs to tell her own story, and perhaps the readers can judge for themselves. Or the two involved, the sp and the agency, can present what they believe happened. I think the OP has good intentions, but now that she has posted what she believes to be true, maybe just allow some time. I would hope that no one would take one person's word as "proof" of wrong doing, without investigation or input from others, before casting out any members just on the say so of someone who is not even the injured party. I think that the OP would agree that if anyone accused her of wrongdoing, she would expect that she would have more than a couple of hours to address the accusation, and not allow her own good name to be muddied up by someone's posts. I think that in the interest of fairness, that mod is obliged to offer any member some time to work things out, if possible. :D

This refers to uncovered oral sex. I have seen several different studies and charts, all pretty much agree upon the risk levels of these activities and the difference between giving and receiving. (and yes, that 1/10 is WAY too high lol) The facts answer that age old question of why an sp who does cbjs still offers daty. It is a risk factor, which is way low for her at risk of receiving an std via daty vs it being quite high for her to contract an std by giving a bbbj. It also answers why many guys are ok with receiving bbbjs, since their risk of contracting an std is very low. This is the risk factors of rimming, fwiw. These are the risks of uncovered sex, fwiw. I do not see a huge difference between uncovered full sex and uncovered bjs, btw, excepting as it applies to the male receiver of bbbjs: www.inspot.org/std-info/sexual-risk.aspx?regionid=48&sitelvl=1 sps who offer bbbjs should be treated with a great deal of respect, imo, as they have made a decision to provide a preferred service at great risk to their personal health and safety. They do this knowing that many of these stds are curable and treatable, but that they will be at increased risk of exposure, if you consider that men in and out of this hobby tend to not get themselves tested (based on a TER poll a few years ago, an overwhelming majority of men had never been tested at all, and this on an escort review site) :confused:

Altho msog is often asked about, in my experience it is rarely actually accomplished. It seems to be one of those things that a client reads about (maybe in a review, maybe sees it advertised) and thinks he should have one too, regardless whether hei sphysically capable. And, while msog is probably doable by about 10% of guys within a half hour recovery time, chances are very good it ain't gonna happen. In 2 hours, it should be doable, but again no guarantee. Many guys are asking that the sp guarantee msog, whether they themselves are capable of it, and that is why you may see a number of sps who simply don't offer it, don't offer it in the hour (or under)) appts, or charge extra for it. The extra is related to the chance that the 2nd is not going to happen, but she will end up having to deal with an unhappy client, or he will insist on her continuing over the previously agreed up time until he does manage to get that 2nd one off. MSOG I caution should be for clients who KNOW for sure that they can do it, within the agreed and paid for time frame. And if it is your first visit to an sp, keep in mind she is going to be skeptical lol. In the OPs case, he indicated this was an hour session. After 40 minutes, did he really think that he was going to cum then and then she would assume he could do it again with only 10-15 minutes left? (I get that it wasn't a cum but still, it is not enough time to recover, start again, and cum again, especially for someone who took 40 minutes with the first one). If I have a visitor that wants an msog, the first one is done right at the beginning, allowing the maximum amount of time possible to recover, start again and cum again within his chosen session. As mentioned above, the journey is far more important in many cases than to just shoot out as many times as possible. That is not exactly how I would enjoy spending my time, and to prolong the anticipation, spend more time in the preparation and to maintain a state of arousal for 30-40 minutes with one bigger bang at the end is far more appealing. The msog all action with limited erotic and sensual stimulation does not sound like as much fun lol.

I agree to a point, in that the most essential thing is that there is non-GFE, GFE (safe or otherwise) and PSE, and that it is ok to use the terms GFE and PSE, but the sp needs to be aware that in her region these terms do have pre-determined assumptions as to what they mean. It is kind of like saying that in a retail store they put up a sign that says "clearance sale" but not one thing in the store is discounted. Everything in the store is "for sale" but putting up the sign implies that something, if not everything is going to be discounted off regular price. Using a term like GFE in advertising already implies some services are included in that price, and that it is not going to be straight fs with no extras whatsoever other than a friendly smile and romantic music. I mention this because some sps do advertise GFE and this is what they end up providing. You can state ymmv whenever you like, but to advertise with a term that does have certain expectations will eventually lead to misunderstandings, hurt feelings, upset and unhappy clients, and that is never a good thing. I would just add that anyone expecting a GFE provider to engage in anything that she considers risky (like bbbjs, for the easiest example) is not very "friendly" of such a client, imo. One hopes that the clients seeking Girl Friendly Experiences ultimately are looking for a fun, relaxed and friendly sp who is comfortable with providing a more intimate encounter while still protecting her own and other clients health and safety.