fortunateone

The new zealand regulations cover a great deal of things, and their study has indicated that the free for all that was anticipated just doesn't happen. The fact is if you regulate the industry, as they have done, it means you regulate anyone who attempts to be "paid" by sex workers. They require a criminal check & pay for a license. If they don't have a license they can be charged. It is very simple, really. I don't see how this can possibly translate into pimp parades.

My whole point was that when you ask the sorts of questions you have listed here, everyone (honest or dishonest) is going to give you the same answer. That makes your questions, as you have posted them which is all I have to judge you by, useless. If you are now saying that you do have other sorts of questions that can be a little more diplomatic, in order to get the information that you are looking for, by all means share. I don't think you understand that if someone is lying in their ad, they will also lie when you ask them, on the phone or email, whether or not they are lying in their ad. If you ask a reputable sp, who has taken the time to present herself professionally and honestly, these same questions in the way you have presented them, chances are she will not reply. And guess what, your opportunity to actually book an appointment with someone who is true to their ad just flew out the window, making it much more likely that you are going to continue to have bad experiences over and over and over again, until you finally figure out that it is you, not them, who is doing this to you. Clearly you are someone who is only going to be happy with escorts who provide full 3d images, several reliable reviews, and so on. Which is fine, but if you stray from choosing them this way then you might limit your choices seriously.

I am hoping some of the members here can share their stories on www.rabble.ca in the babble area (feminism and sex worker forums) where susi has pretty much been the lone voice trying to get this message across to biased abolitionists. Primarily, viewpoints from service providers will have the most effect, especially those with some knowledge of the statistics regarding the indoor work, and any issues you have had specifically as a result of the laws that inhibit safer working conditions. Anyone who goes there needs to be able to deal with a great deal of bias, misconceptions and the use of faulty & biased statistics to support positions. What the heck, in this biz we are certainly used to a few little misconceptions about what we do and who we are aren't we? Remember, many of these people rabidly support the Swedish model, which in effect makes criminals out of customers while leaving prostitution itself legal. This way, sex workers can't be charged with prostitution, but their clients can be. Their own government and police studies say that the initiative has actually increased dangers faced by service providers. Street workers (yes, it did not eliminate street work, big surprise) are afraid to carry condoms (as are the customers) because police can use the presence of condoms as evidence against them.

I think the de-crim will directly and immediately affect some of the ways we conduct business. Although it will be possible for street workers to discuss rates and services in public, the city of Vancouver for example has anti-loitering type bylaws to address panhandlers. No reason why they can't use that to control street work to a manageable level. The one most indys and mp workers are looking forward to is the bawdy house stuff, and also regarding living off the avails. Living off the avails means they can legally hire drivers and security, or just have someone else around when they do incalls. The bawdy house thing will address being able to legally work from home (one or two people, not a group of course). The folks in New Zealand decriminalized and their 5 year study after initiating it found no increase in overall numbers. I was looking for the actual report, but maybe I will post it later. For now, below can give a quick break down of the laws that were removed in NZ, which seem exactly the same as the ones in Canada, and the outcome of removing them -- by which I mean, the new regulations that came about to address most of the concerns about decriminalization, and the problems most anti-prostitution lobbiests tend to go on about. http://www.nzpc.org.nz/page.php?page_name=Law

What I personally do is make sure I lower expectations, and repeat some of the things that I am and am not. I hope that given all of that, they can be pleasantly surprised when they arrive. The point being that they are using more than pictures in the first place when they choose to see a mature massage plus provider. I offer what they are looking for, including maturity, and if I can also be beautiful in their eyes, they find this to be a bonus. I just make sure that they are not expecting young and beautiful, but older and attractive, not perfect but friendly. I am just going to select the questions that, imo, are worthless to you. For the simple fact that anyone who is a "yes" to these is going to say no regardless, plus it offends good reputable sps to have someone imply that we are all drug addicts, by that particular question. Anyone who asks me that gets the "sorry, I can't help you. Good luck in your search". Already, before we meet, all I am hearing is that you either have expectations that are too high, you personally are high maintenance, you have a negative attitude, and are not easy going and go with the flow. In my experience, these are the sort of clients to avoid. Here are the questions you should not bother asking: Do you do drugs or abuse alcohol when dating? She is not going to say "yes, I ABUSE drugs and alcohol" even if she is falling down drunk when she says it. This is where common sense comes in. Age? This should be indicated in the ad. Don't expect her to vary from it just because you ask. Physical condition? If you mean general physical description, fine. Why not ask instead "Can you describe yourself to me, I don't have your ad in front of me right now." I get the sense tho that your question is an attempt to find out if she is a bbw posing as a super model. She is not going to tell you this outright if she is lol. You don't have a penis do you? Such a question is so offensive I can't imagine how you would expect any sp to provide you with a good time after proving she does not have a penis. Seriously, half the questions are really offensive, and guaranteed to ensure you are going to have less than exceptional sessions lol, as the ones who would provide exceptional sessions would get ticked off and not see you lol. :butt:

I would have to agree. Doing incalls only, not at any mps, but private, I have not had any bad experiences in over 8 years, and I see many many people a month (it may have more impact if I say that I do currently have over 70 visitors a month, some repeating of course; but the emphasis is not one problem) However, I personally screen all visitors, unlike an mp or agency where they send in anyone, whether it is a good or a bad match, the sp is expected to do her best. One young sp in Edmonton's "best" was to be killed by the client in an outcall, inspite of the driver being close by. Another young sp's "best" was being sent by her agency to one of her brother's room-mates, because they refuse to give these escorts any information about the people they are being sent to. Some of the SWs may actually better street smarts that those who work indoors, altho their risks seem greater. Many work around other SWs, whereas some new indoor sps may just place an ad and have no clue about how to keep herself safe. And an indoor worker can get the same disrespect and violence as any SW simply by advertising "no restrictions" and lower than standard rates. I obviously don't really have a point here, but maybe we should also remember that there are other workers who have risks, like hospital workers can get attacked violently, and so on.

One of the posters there thinks that clients must be tested, which makes no sense, as customers you cannot require mandatory tests. As employees somewhere, then yes, and that can be mandated. But not from the customers side. That same poster seems to think that there must be industry regulations re: fluids, but I am not sure what exactly he thinks is already happening or likely to happen, but it is interesting when someone is willing to approach this biz from an industry/labour standards POV lol. I think that the possibility that many sps are technically self-employed and determine their own "regulations". It is at the mps and agencies that such standards could and maybe should be adopted.

I can't say I know why a booker would not have replied, since it isn't about them and at the very least they should be able to give some information for you. But I can say that I would not have replied, based on the bolded items in your email. (but then, in my first email, I would have given you a phone # to call for info, and if you replied in an email I would have ignored it because I specifically ask for you to call lol, so bear with me here) 1. which would possibly be a turn off I would have been offended by this, even tho I do not have any scars or tattoos lol To me, it sounds like you are high maintenance, fussy, picky, more interested in looks than personality or the overall experience 2. the last date I had gave birth via csection and I had a hard time getting past that. See # 1 (Too much information) 3. Like I said before I know what I want and I want a lot of it Yeah, this is totally not attractive, not appealing at all. If an sp chooses who they see, this does not sound like someone who is easy to get along with, fun to be with. Sounds judgemental, demanding, and arrogant. Not saying that that is what you planned to sound like, just my POV. 4. I might book her for an overnight This is usually code for, I am wasting your time. It is the carrot dangling in order to get more for less, or something for nothing, and a very common thing for guys to say who are trying to make a deal, or who are complete wastes of time. Put it in the donotuse file along with "money is no object". Or, she simply would not even consider booking any overnights without having 2-3 short appts first, to judge compatibility. She would not consider extending a short appt into an overnighter, so she decided not to reply based on the idea that you were looking for someone willing to extend on short notice. 5. does she do threesomes While good to know, based on everything else in the email, this to me would sound like someone who actually does not know what he wants, or is again dangling that carrot, specifically to the booker who may benefit from being able to set up a duo. I think the main thing is that most escorts have seen it all before, and a short sincere email goes a long way. I think the fact that you specifically sent the first email looking for rates and services but did not get them should have meant pass. She may also have only been there for a short time, and since the first reply has left town. On the other hand, she may not have received the email at all. Strange things happen to my email accounts (google) and it is damned annoying. Why not remove the offensive bits and re-email to a new ad post, if there is one, and try again?

Yep, no class whatsoever, with those shots. I always think, why bother if that is what someone thinks is "sexy" lol. What ends up happening is it attracts a ruder caller, someone who thinks that a pic like that, and a CUM C ME line with a phone # is enough. I always say you get who you advertise for, and a low class ad = a low class encounter. No one to blame but yourself if the only guys who call say "how much of a discount can I get" or offer 50 for a blo and go, cuz that is exactly the kind of vibe those shots and ads give off. The callers think she's desperate and/or incapable of putting together a more thoughtful advertisement for herself.

What is meant by "legal" though. I mean these are already businesses paying business license fees for something, so aren't they already operating a legal businesses??? I often wonder why politicians never seem to know what the actual laws about anything are, when they are often the ones saying something like prostitution should not be legalized. Oops, too late, lol. It already is. So now what. :confused: And 3000!!?? Seriously, are there really 3000 mps in Toronto alone?? Are there enough people to work in them, let alone visit that many lol. That is also an interesting comment. Does he imply that there are no local women working in mps? They are all illegal and/or tricked into the biz? And how is "paying for advertising" suddenly a bad or sinister thing, exactly?

Very good advice. OP is not ready yet to try to make a new decision on who to see, but rather should try a visit where first time nerves are automatically lower due to going to the same place with the same person. Develop some comfort, some skills, then he will know what he likes or doesn't like, and that is what helps make good decisions.

I am always heartily offended when women are lumped in with children. The concerns of children are not the same concerns of grown women, and it also makes an assumption that all women have children, therefor the concerns of children and women are interchangeable and linked. I also feel that a case could be made that the side laws re: prostitution are specifically designed to limit women's ability to make a decent wage in a field that can actually be a stepping stone towards a good education and different career, or to simply be able to afford to both work and care for their own children. Alot of guys are able to choose to do very hard demanding work for the same reason, or to simply earn a very large wage. Prostitution allows women to make an income that matches or meets any traditionally male employment (trades, resources like oil or fishery have traditionally been male dominated with huge paycheques but women typically do not get hired in these fields. When they were young, men may not have dreamed of working on an oil rig any more than a girl would not have dreamed of becoming an escort. Both would see these fields as opportunities, or simply a good yet demanding way to make a lot of money in a short period of time. But no one is worried about "children" or young men choosing to work in fishing, logging or oil, and no one has set up laws which make it difficult for them to find out about or apply for such work. Or to let it be known that they do such work either, fwiw.

Unfortunately, sps will be under a lot of pressure to continue to provide full gfe (if they do bbbjs, they will encounter problems from clients if they try to replace it with a cbj) and if they kiss they will not be able to not kiss. Just as client pressure has created full gfe over straight full service, it is really unlikely clients will book if the sp attempts to add restrictions when she had very few. Those sps who have always had some restrictions will continue to be able to provide a similar level of service, but I can just hear the complaints already if any sp attempts to establish some safety precautions. It is unfortunate that so many out there consider themselves invincible, and after all, if they get ill, it won't affect their income. If they bring illness, she is out of luck, in their opinions, but since they wouldn't have a need to revisit for a week or two anyway, does not affect their lives. :cry:

I agree. To me, if someone thinks the experience of sensual and sexual stimulation needs to be "enhanced" in any way thru artificial means, then they're doing it wrong lol. (and, no to whoever mentioned this: protein powders or vitamins are not included nor assumed to be included with drugs and alcohol. They are not mood altering or depressants, obviously)

All good points. Black list areas are more effective when the subject on the list doesn't know he is there. I have seen a couple of guys info get posted more publically in a Neighbourhood Watch area, as these people are dangerous, deranged, etc. Or it may be info on a scam that targets sps. Posting in a NW area puts it out there for anyone thinking of doing the same thing to hopefully make them think twice. The person presenting this bad date info is shown to only a select few. On a different board I am on there is also a separate forum for escorts, and an "anonymous" feature has been added, which allows the poster to choose to post their info without revealing their handle. (Since all the members with access to the room have all been screened this is more for their own privacy) One thing you can also consider here is to have group leaders who actually phone and talk to the applicants. They can discuss the rules of the area and it serves to "feel them out" and verify gender. Not everyone is mature enough to understand how to be discrete, and I think we have all seen those ones post here and there lol.

The fact is, on the other board, there are around 100 sps who belong to the escort only forum specifically designed to support and encourage each other. Sweet Tart, SS, Missy M, myself, and more are all part of that group, yes group, yet accused here of being unsupportive?? The fact is that you were also welcomed into that group yet somehow managed to screw it up by your own behaviour, lack of discretion, lack of support of other sps, petty and catty, and more. I don't think you lasted a week in there, much like your sp "career" it was short lived. Had you understood better how to get along with others, the value of discretion and the importance of a sincere and honest approach to this business, even retired, you would still be a part of that group. You were voted off the island by the majority of your peers there, however.

I don't think Missy M and Sweet Tart are doing anything more than trying to bring some light onto what can be a delicate subject. Anyone new, who has worked for that minimum 6 months or so, may not have enough experience to know what those tough questions are, and what to look out for with any kind of offer that comes their way. This is one of many offers that may come their way, and they need to hear all of the questions that they themselves should be asking before they commit themselves, their privacy, their POV to any endeavour. And, as the young lady above suggests, which I totally agree with, in her experience of 5 months it is impossible for her to consider any of her repeat clients to be regulars. Regulars visit regularly over a significantly longer period of time than 4 months. Personally, I have seen the same gentleman for over 8 years 3-4 times a month, as well as one I see 4-5 times a year but for 5 years now. Plus, in this business it is not considered proper etiquette to solicit reviews. It taints the spirit of the review, making them less meaningful. Had you listened to the advice given to you, MB, when you asked for it, you would have understood this and not made such glaring mistakes, including the barter and trade setup you also thought there was nothing wrong with. At this point, the sp with 5 months has a lot more experience under her belt lol. When you have had as much real time experience as the sps you are referring to, then you can feel free to complain about their opinions. Until then, perhaps we can all just agree that, at this point in your life, it is time to step away from the boards as they really have no place in your life anymore by your own account. I also find the inference that higher rates = better class and quality clients. I think that all of my massage clients are good "quality" even tho they choose to do a session that is easy on their budget. I feel offended on behalf of all of the escorts in your area who charge less than 300 and for the clients who pay less than that.

I do not think there is any excuse for exposing anything in a pm. It is, after all, short for private message. Anyone who reveals something said in pm should suffer some sort of repercussion, like banning or restricted access. We should all feel perfectly comfortable in saying whatever we wish in private. If what someone says is offensive or threatening, they can easily be reported privately as even then it shouldn't be revealed. On the topic, I think it bizarre that a hobbiest should be enquiring about personal info about another hobbiest. I have rarely met board members who admit to being a board member anyway, but to admit to it then ask about another one is just wrong. Personally, if it were I that that guy had come to see, I would have warned the subject of his conversation and, if I knew it, would report his handle to the mod. Further, I would not see him again and would include his info into the blacklist forum I belong to. I would probably do much the same for anyone who pries too deeply into the life of an escort member.

Ah, but that is exactly my point. "Experienced hobbiest" actually make up a very small percentage of clients :mrgreen: It is the new ones or the infrequent visitors, or those who find someone right off the bat and stay with them for years and years that escorts also need to reach. These are not so experienced, but their numbers are significantly higher than the review board folks. Also, your average review board user is not necessarily a repeater, but often looking for the next best thing. The sps who only look for 5 or 6 appts a week are going to find these sites are more than enough. But from an sp standpoint, using sites that significantly increase our exposure to repeat clients is much more important than missing out on some of the experienced hobbiests due to our preference for using CL to advertise. Just something to ponder and, after all, you will not miss out on all reputable sps because the majority of them will be advertising on the sites you mention......as well as CL :mrgreen:

CL is free, and all free advertising is good advertising lol Also, no other advertising site can ever possibly compare when it comes to the number of hits a CL ad will get. To check ads on Cerb or EC, or similar, a potential client would have to know about such sites. A huge number of people on CL are there for other reasons and stumble across the erotic services, or learn about that section from a news story, etc. If, and that is a big IF, an sp is able to get all of her appts thru other sites, great. But that is a huge IF for sps who have a lot of available time and are actively seriously seeking business. Again, who passes up free advertising when the alternatives cost hundreds and hundreds of $$ a month for mixed results. CL clients account for a significant part of my biz, with paid ads making up a distant second. It is the only viable advertising venue for someone who is new and actually has no money to pay for pics, advertising or a website. It is the only place someone new to the biz is likely to find a place to advertise at all. For more transient sps, like those who come to Canada for a short time to work in micros, or even just someone who travels to Ottawa from Vancouver a couple of times a year, it is the most obvious place to post an ad prior to and during the visit, since paying for a more Ontario based site does not make any $ense at all, lol. The key thing when you look at a CL ad is exactly the same thing you would be looking for in any other ad: what does the ad look like, how much of it is hype and how much is believable, how much effort has the advertiser put into her ad, what kind of clientele does she appear to be looking for, do you feel that she has just slapped something together with only a glance at literacy, or has she taken the time to check her spelling and create a sense of style, professionalism and care. If she has taken the time to tell you about herself, checked her spelling and grammar, and shows you that she cares about how she is advertising herself, I think that you can feel confident that she cares about taking care of you. There are a few tips: she is constant and consistent in her advertising, she doesn't change her name every 3 months, she doesn't offer to party with you, she doesn't post between midnight and 5AM. These are the things that make CL different from other sites, because you can post ads every day whereas with other advertising venues, you may only do so once a week, or just one time and change it only when necessary. When you contact her, she replies promptly and professionally, is friendly and approachable, she gives you the info you need and if you do make an appt, she shows up on time or is ready on time. I know of very very few sps who advertise on many different sites, including this one, who do not also advertise on CL. Their ads on CL are almost exactly the same as the ones you see here (Classy Angel, for example). Other sites have sketchy sps advertising, so paying for an ad, or looking at "reputable" sites doesn't always really help. The additional thing you can do when you see an ad on CL, just as you would when you see an ad anywhere else, is to look for reviews, or do a 411 on the sp. Due your homework, in other words, lol.

I don't blame you for ducking out. There was clearly some miscommunication, otherwise why did the receptionist not seem to know you were expected. It wasn't so long that you'd called, unless she assumed the other guy waiting was you and you were an unexpected arrival?? She seemed a bit clueless otherwise, or would have figured out not to put you both in the same place lol.

I like to ask what sort of work do you do, I do not need to know where you do it or for how long, etc. Sometimes, as I do massage first, this tells me where it hurts most lol. Clients should not know anything truly personal about any sp. We are talking about simple boundaries to prevent future trouble, stalkers, etc. If you are practised in not discussing real identifying details about yourself with everyone, then everyone will have the same info. If necessary, make something up as a story that you stick to. Frankly, certain details about you and your life are none of their business. It cannot be considered just "conversation" if it strikes you as odd or unusual, compared to other clients you have. (However, I do find that some reviewer clients who don't mention they are review board members do ask different sorts of questions than other clients ask -- not in a stalkerish way, but their types of questions are quite different) You should not be asked nor tell: where you live, if you live in the same place you work out of, where you were born, when you were born (even your actual month/day birthday), where you went to school, when you graduated (or if you didn't), where you are going or went to post secondary school, where you work (if you have a second job), if you have kids (unless it is obvious), if it is obvious then you should not mention how many and what their ages or gender is, if you are single or not, if you are not single whether you live with a bf, if you are alone (in the incall -- unless it is obvious), names ages and number of brothers and sisters, and I can't think of anything else in particular. There is a very wide selection of other topics of conversation available from the weather today to what shows they like to watch, sports, movies, etc etc etc etc.

I quite agree. It would be putting negative energy into what should be a mutually beneficial experience. What I find about the hagglers is that they themselves refuse to compromise in any way. If offered an option of services, time or whatever that matches the rate they are suggesting, they won't even consider it. In fact, they begin to ask for increased services or more time, etc, for this wonderfully lower rate. The bottom line is that if you do agree to a lower rate, for whatever reason, with these individuals they are the worst sort of demanding and arrogant client that you would instantly regret it and vow to never see them again, and so on. One sp I used to know would do "specials" every now and then, about 25 off her half hour rate. Sure enough, some asshat would call up and offer 50 off her half hour rate instead. The sale price was telling him she is desperate for biz and willing to negotiate even lower rates, when in reality it was that she wanted to work hard for a day or two before helping a friend move. She indicated that having tried the "specials" a couple of times, she would never ever do it again because of these lowballers calling up and looking for her to agree to an even lower rate. On another board, there were comments about the services sps offer as "commodities", which is quite offensive. Or that because some sps charge lower rates, then everyone should "or else" they will lose business for sure. One comment I thought of at the time was that sps always choose who they are going to see, and who they will not. And clearly the lowertheprice types are getting refused left right and centre, and they are the ones with fewer and fewer options available to them, whereas the sp is happily seeing the clients who are happily paying the posted rates.

Must have for Winnipeg. Don't compromise, because you have LE issues there, unlike some other places. References are a good way for you to make sure the individual calling is not a sting. You do have an opportunity thru membership here to also use the members handle as a screening method. Many sps on other boards will accept that in lieu of sp references, or as an alternative to the exchange of some personal information. For example, you get a pm from coachg to make an appt with you. You can look at his posts and see that he has reviewed other sps and get an idea if you and he would be a good match. You have the option of pm contact with the sp reviewed if she is a member here to confirm him if everyone agrees to that method of a reference.

That's the other side of the problem. The ones who have no clue that there is anything wrong with it; the ones who think if there is no CIP there is no problem. Well, when you think about it, how different can it seem to them if they look at a bbbj and a bbfs and they ask you what is the difference? Some cultures don't have the info. I saw a CNN report not that long ago where a young sp in China thought that someone had given her a shot so she was "okay". bbfs is not uncommon in asian micros either, just not talked about. And not usually for extra $$, just for repeat business. If people lack education about stds, which we know they do otherwise no sp would do a bbbj, then they are going to think everything is "okay". Certainly teenagers don't think anything will happen to them, otherwise the rate of stds would not be so high among the 15-20 year olds and the incidence of bbfs is much higher there too. :ablow: Ack! Don't get me started, lol. Pet peeves.