fortunateone

Very unprofessional and sounds a little desperate, imo, neither are very attractive attributes for an sp. The only time you should receive a call or text from an sp is when they are replying (in a timely manner, or per your message instructions) to a message that you sent them. For emailing, since it is more private, there are still professional guidelines to follow: you agree to receive updates on their schedule, or other sorts of messages, from them. You agree to be on their emailing list. Anything else is ridiculous. Texts and phone calls come at any time anywhere, and in some cases, for anyone to view. Extremely immature behaviour, imo. Excuse me, but obviously this has me all riled up. :oops:

Just make sure you continuously report to abuse@●●●●●●●●●●.org. There is a form online when you go to the FAQ/help/abuse section and click on harrassing posts, but they can respond very quickly when you email directly. Include the link, the posting ID, put 911 in the subject line, and indicate what is the issue. The online form to report harrassment can give you the format, but I found in the past that emailing directly gets quicker results. Flagging is kind of like calling someone and not leaving a message. It may or may not work, and it may take too long to work. Reporting repeatedly can get the offender tagged, flagged and blocked at some point. Also if it is someone with a history of harrassing posts, fake "review" posts, etc and enough different people complain when they are targets as well, it doesn't take long for CL themselves to really cooperate with you, helping by providing IP info and/or location. This has happened a few times via the Vancouver CL section, and a couple of sps were able to get CL to help pinpoint the general area of the harrassing posts. If necessary, this can be used to charge the cyber bully criminally.:| CL is not quite as anonymous as these small minded bullies seem to think it is. And you can take swift action and get results by reporting the abuse.

Would removing the cam option reduce the cost? I haven't seen this feature in other chat rooms on other forums, and I think if it is something that is causing the sps to avoid it due to unwanted pressure to put on a show, removing it altogether will put the emphasis back on "chat". Most sp members have links to their ads, sites, rates, pics, services, etc, so it shouldn't be necessary that they should provide free entertainment for that portion of the viewing audience who end up wasting their time and preventing them from making real connections to serious individuals or just chatting with cool members from all over. just my 2 cents. Not a fan of chat -- too many try to pull you into private chat rooms, and you miss out on the main topic of conversation in the big room lol.

I enjoy it but have 4 other boards I have belonged to longer, 2 of which are more Vancouver based so spend more time there. Also, like one of my other boards, this one slows down my ancient computer, plus is slow to change/load/post on so that affects how often I spend time on a board. However, it is a board I recommend to others as a nicer place to visit and spend time on, and when BC based sps are interested in travels to the East, this is where I send to for more info on where to go and what to do. For community, topics and behaviour, it is a very cool board. For Van info and members, not so much, for my dos centavos.

Thanks! I appreciate this, since I discovered someone actually gave me negative rep points for this thread. :cry:

Ah, but huge difference between the young guys who are seen and the young guys who make contact lol. All young guys who get thru the door are kind, polite, and awesome. That's what I mean to say.

I do wish it had moved a bit faster. I had seen it & borrowed it from another poster on another site, but there must be other similar videos or articles that would cover the topic. Everyone should feel free to add to the thread anything they find. I guess the main issue too is that many people are using the internet as a way to say things or do things that they would never do if they actually had to confront the person. I watched a talk show a couple of weeks ago, paternity suit issues lol. The husband in the story had posted some derogatory things about his wife (they'd separated), accused her of cheating, the child not his, the usual -- except he posted her picture and all these details on line. Fact is, the test prove the child is his and a lie detector test proved that everything he accused her of was completely untrue. That would be a simple case of online harrassment; there are many many more cases of teen bullying, character assassinations, and lies posted as facts. It's on the internet; it must be true. :roll:

In my experience, it is young white dudes who try to come off like gangsta rappers, so I doubt if that stereotype black cliche holds up. Most (not all) younger guys act like the sp should not only be grateful that they called them, cuz they are so young and hot (and make sure you know it during the conversation) that probably the sp should pay them for deigning to meet you. Tho I am older, I have no doubt that the younger sps are also tired of that attitude. A younger voiced caller, therefore, will have to work extra hard to prove they are not a moron. Morons are not safe, because if they do not respect the sp enough to use hello, please and thank you what does that tell you about how much they are going to respect rates, boundaries and restrictions? Exactly. Many times they use the "sexy voice" (the ladies will know what I mean) Hey, how ya doin? Howzitgoin? Want some company? Sigh. Just say hello, I saw your ad and I'm just calling for a little more information. Sheesh. That is why they prefer not to see younger guys, experience not assumptions. Prove you are not a jack ass, like other younger callers, mind your manners, don't call at 3AM, don't assume that because she is an sp she takes drugs and drinks a lot, don't assume she is going to want to hang out with you because you are young, hot and can last all night. I cannot think that endurance would be an endearing trait to an sp lol. Don't assume that because she may see more older guys that you will be a welcome change. A smelly rude hot guy is never going to be more attractive than a stocky clean old guy.

This is courtesy of a member of another board's signature pic -- and I will be posting it in the other areas as well, as a reminder to everyone, if nothing else, exactly what it is people like this are all about. When you see it happen, silence is not golden -- they need to be confronted. When it happens to you, same thing -- record & report. Bullies can't function when they are exposed and when good people refuse to remain silent. :thumbs up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp0zP8KPw0Q

I do find this an interesting subject. I don't go unless we've met before. From my POV, a lot more risks with outcalls (like the ones mentioned, the idea that the person may not actually be alone, too drunk to drive hence the outcall request, etc). But from the clients, he has provided full name, home address, etc. It seems like there are a lot more risks for him, if the sp sent is not known to him. Yet guys do this all the time, and many prefer it. And on the opposite side of the spectrum are those who need/want to call from blocked numbers or try to figure out ways of getting prepaid cel phones to call with complete anonymity. :mrgreen:

I guess my main point, kind of echoed by Outforfun, is that having the number gives an illusion of security that doesn't actually exist. Not having the number, but basing the appt on a 5 minute or more conversation, means that you are using other things as your security/checks. It is these other things that need to be developed (only happens over time, and actually using the phone to its full capacity -- i.e. avoiding phone calls will not help develop this skill.) This skill will not fail you, regardless of whatever else you use as checks. Guys with references can fake them, guys with phone #s can fake them, guys with ID can fake them. But guys who are not sober or are rude, cannot fake that when you talk to them. Majority of sps who have been doing this for a few years have done it before cels or when cel phone #s were always blocked. Many people didn't have cels, so payphones were always used. The payphone would prove that they are actually in the area, & if situated correctly, you would be able to see them there. There is nothing that can prevent a bad date if one is determined enough to meet you; but I think that trusting that a phone # is going answer or resolve that may make someone feel a little too relaxed. The one thing I see from sps who have been working for 4+ years is that phone conversation is mandatory. 2call system is mandatory. Nothing else will get the fella in the door. :-D Here is a simple example: In Surrey, there is a guy named Bill Russell. He has 2 phone #s, never changes them. He calls each and every new advertiser, sets up an incall, meets at the skytrain station, wants fun in the car (no payment received yet) then continue at his location. Due to discretion, he will drop her off at the front door then drive around back to go in, then let her in. He drives away and leaves her there. In some cases, he has pushed a girl out of the car while it is in motion. In other cases, he has removed the condom or deliberately broken it. Every month, someone new finds a review board to post a "warning" about him, or posts the warnings on CL. Every month, yet his information is out there, they (apparently) report him to LE, yet every month or so he is able to do it again. Here is someone who is able to provide a full name & phone number, and also the sp has his car make & model (possibly plate #), and possibly general address location. I for one would never rely on a phone # to decide who I will or won't see.

Unless there is some unusual physical condition that would affect the appt, I see no great reason to include pictures or descriptions. Sometimes it gives me the impression (with younger guys) that they are seeking some sort of deal due to hotness factors as tho their superior bodies are somehow worth more than the polite kindness of an older gentleman with few extra pounds. Detailed fantasies in the emails signal waste of time. If there is anything specific or fetish in your tastes, it is easy enough to simply say do you do foot fetish and leave it at that. Most sps can read between the lines, and frankly, a detailed fantasy story is more likely to hit the junk file only partially read. :-P

In Vancouver, a significant number of young single men have a significant amount of money: certain cultures won't let them leave home until marriage, they work the family biz, a marriage may be arranged or at least encouraged, etc. Usually generous & polite, but they can't necessarily pursue girlfriends outside of their culture: this is a quick & easy way to satisfy curiosity and attraction without upsetting the family. Also, the same reasons apply: in & out in a short period of time, know what they are getting, a different girl every week, fulfill an older woman fantasy, no pressure, no expectations, no morning after awkwardness. A young man's dream, really.

Everything Samantha says is bang on. Some people skip either the 2 call system for the incall or getting the full name and hotel number for the outcall, but these are crucial if for no other reason than you reduce the time wasters. (and address collectors). One thing I find interesting is the underlying belief that calls from block numbers are somehow unsavory, less safe or more likely to waste your time. All callers have an equal chance of being good calls, or bad calls. Totally equal. The only thing you have going for you is your experience, translated to gut instinct. Spending time on the phone call, finding out what they are looking for and what they are like, cannot be replaced simply by knowing their phone #. After all, they could be using this: Knowing a phone number, over not knowing it, gives a false sense of security, all things considered. I do not rely on that, but I do record the exact time of the call. If they make an appt, it can still be just as easily traced if necessary. Numbers are not blocked or hidden from the phone service providers; pay-as-you-go phones will provide a #, and absolutely no accountability.

A good r&t takes as much time, care and attention to detail as any fs. A good hj is not a jerky 30 second-are-you-done-yet experience. A good r&t approaches tantric longer encounters, includes a massage that is either or approaches certified and is normally preferred by those who can't or don't want fs, or bjs for that matter. A good r&t provider (out west anyway) is worth her weight in gold and a rare individual as r&ts are not commonplace in this area. And, of course, the point of me mentioning it was that guys who think it doesn't deserve a higher cost will post something like the above even tho they have no intention of experiencing r&ts, but the end result is that those who do enjoy them feel funny about posting their experiences. The result is that r&t guys are rarely able to read reviews about r&t providers without having to wade thru a lot of price point comments lol. (I mean, of course, in the unlikely event that a review is even posted, since the r&t guys can anticipate the negative reactions).

A good r&t takes as much time, care and attention to detail as any fs. A good hj is not a jerky 30 second-are-you-done-yet experience. A good r&t approaches tantric longer encounters, includes a massage that is either or approaches certified and is normally preferred by those who can't or don't want fs, or bjs for that matter. A good r&t provider (out west anyway) is worth her weight in gold and a rare individual as r&ts are not commonplace in this area. And, of course, the point of me mentioning it was that guys who think it doesn't deserve a higher cost will post something like the above even tho they have no intention of experiencing r&ts, but the end result is that those who do enjoy them feel funny about posting their experiences. The result is that r&t guys are rarely able to read reviews about r&t providers without having to wade thru a lot of price point comments lol. (I mean, of course, in the unlikely event that a review is even posted, since the r&t guys can anticipate the negative reactions).

You can find links to other sp bloggers thru this site as well. There are several US & UK bloggers, so you get insight into the work in other countries. There isn't always time to see everything everyone has to say lol, but there is a lot of fun reads out there. Other things you can do is to seek out sp only sites or forums or sites with private areas for sps. There is a lot of information and networking available out there that shouldn't or can't be posted in a public all eyes area, but for verified sps with a solid reputation for discretion, access is granted.

There is a site called tineye that can help verify pictures in ads. There was someone in Vancouver who actually used fake pics on her website, until she got her own photos done lol. But this site is apparently very useful for identifying the original source of pictures. One good clue tho is that if they look like pro shots, and the sp does not have a website, it is less likely that they are hers.

This would be a perfect post on that board that rhymes with cerb but starts with P. I would add: 1. I get that you don't appreciate the sensational sensations of the r&t, but don't put down or belittle the guys who do & who post their reviews. Frankly it makes you look like a cheapo jackass when you say he's an idiot for spending 180/hr for r&t instead of getting micro fs for 120/45. 2. I get that you like bbbjs, but I don't want to hear about how it is zero risk for both parties again and again when it has been confirmed by the Health Nurse that it is high risk for the sp. Let it go, and leave it alone, instead of trying to coerce the sp in a review who only does cbjs that their biz will suffer because of that. It won't. 3. Leave your two cents out of an sps ad. She paid to be there, you didn't, and posting IN her ad that you don't think she is worth the rates she is charging, or can't possibly look like her pictures, makes you a jackass. 4. Learn what to look for in an ad. Learn what to ask for when contacting the sp. If you don't do either of this, learn not to complain when you don't get everything you assumed. 5. Go to have a good time; go in with a good attitude. Sps respond better to a smile and a thank you than they do to arrogance or questions about their health or latest std checkup.

This would be a perfect post on that board that rhymes with cerb but starts with P. I would add: 1. I get that you don't appreciate the sensational sensations of the r&t, but don't put down or belittle the guys who do & who post their reviews. Frankly it makes you look like a cheapo jackass when you say he's an idiot for spending 180/hr for r&t instead of getting micro fs for 120/45. 2. I get that you like bbbjs, but I don't want to hear about how it is zero risk for both parties again and again when it has been confirmed by the Health Nurse that it is high risk for the sp. Let it go, and leave it alone, instead of trying to coerce the sp in a review who only does cbjs that their biz will suffer because of that. It won't. 3. Leave your two cents out of an sps ad. She paid to be there, you didn't, and posting IN her ad that you don't think she is worth the rates she is charging, or can't possibly look like her pictures, makes you a jackass. 4. Learn what to look for in an ad. Learn what to ask for when contacting the sp. If you don't do either of this, learn not to complain when you don't get everything you assumed. 5. Go to have a good time; go in with a good attitude. Sps respond better to a smile and a thank you than they do to arrogance or questions about their health or latest std checkup.

I totally agree. Never assume certain unsafe activities are automatically included because you define GFE or PSE a certain. I read a post once from someone responding to a definition of PSE that bbbjs should not be assumed -- I thought that was pretty strange, as I can't imagine a PSE with a cbj lol. GFE is just to differentiate from straight fs, which will not often have any bj, covered or uncovered, and certainly no kissing or daty. Also, I once pointed out to someone who assumed gfe automatically included bbbj, that they didn't assume CIM or COF, which is exactly what they would also expect from a real gf. So, basically never assume, & it is up to her to define it. Sometimes they will advertise cbj, but bbbj is available only for regulars or at the very least only for someone who shows up ymmv.

Sue Davis from this documentary (the sp with all the condoms and lube lol) is an advocate for safe workplace, coops, etc to help lessen the impact of the ridiculous anti-solicitation laws. Also much work is being done by the organization she is involved in on the whole topic. Vancouver seems to have such a simpler way of dealing with this business, it seems, than other cities. In spite of the FACT it is a legal profession, it seems like a lot of you live in areas where you are targeted and can be charged for providing those services. Here, the focus is on the street trade -- such a small portion of the sex work business, but the most visible and the easiest one to make the most impact in a short period of time. I cannot for the life of me figure out what kind of reasoning goes into placing fake ads or arranging dates with sps in order to lay charges on clients and sps. I think there is more on www. w c c sip . ca Susi does post alot on the pacific version of the board that shall not be named. Hopefully she will find her way here and duplicate the info that she so generously shares elsewhere. :neutral:

re: phone calls, just hit the highlights when they call, don't let them steer the conversation too long. You can do it in 30 seconds, rates, services, location, stats. It doesn't take forever, and you end up sounding like someone they want to see rather than someone all irritable because they don't read the ad. They NEVER read the ad, lol, just the phone #. They don't often know who they are calling lol, it isn't like they are looking at the ad when they call. Usually they search in the morning, or before leaving work, and call while driving or out and about. There isn't any reason why they should or can remember the details. Most of the time the questions tell them a little about you. If you is impatient or flip, then you is not who they choose to see. If you is patient and helpful during the phone call, you sound sweet and welcoming, then you is who they will choose to see. Who would want to see someone who sounds all pissed off, bothered by what to them is a simple phone call? Having said that, I usually get choked at the "are you clean", "is it safe", and one other question that escapes me for the moment but equally annoying if only because, as I usually tell them, who on earth is going to answer with a "no"? The question itself is meaningless.

Prostitution (exchange of $ for sex) isn't illegal now, so there is nothing to decriminalize. This is one subject that irritated me when I read news stories on that Malerek book, where it is actually stated that prostitution in Canada is illegal. It isn't, nor is having a phone discussion of rates and services illegal. It is very annoying that people outside of this industry publish such misleading information (rant over) What would be nice is to allow the SWs a safe place to work, so that they can discuss rates & services without violating the law against solicitation in public. Outside of Vancouver, some of the city bylaws are ridiculous, and IMO actually contradict the federal laws re: prostitution. Edmonton seems to have a set up that is ideal, for both clients and workers. Requiring individual biz licenses for the workers, and most of the activity in massage parlours.

My POV, is I pay you to paint my bathroom, and with the money you made you can either choose to pay me for my services, or someone else. No worries, no hard feelings, no "trying" to arrange a hookup time that won't interfere with a "paying" client. Anything else just seems unnecessarily complex.