Capital Hunter

Thanks for your comments. The New Zealand approach is too liberal to my taste and that was why I did not favor that in my OP. My knowledge as fas as NZ prostitution laws is concerned is limited to what I have read on the internet and it says that pimping is permitted under that model and as I have indicated in my OP, I do not agree with that. Neither do I agree with street level prostitution which is mostly forced prostitution (by pimps or need to finance drug addiction). So in my view only private voluntary prostitution between consenting adults should be legalized but pimping must remain illegal. This is a great link which describes prostitution laws in many countries, including New Zealand, if you are interested. http://prostitution.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000772

I very much share your concerns but more likely only a majority conservative government can impose backward laws and their moral standards upon our nation and undermine citiizens' rights protected under the charter of rights. There are many elements of religious right and former reform party ultra right elements within the new conservative party and I believe that the nation is smarter than that not to realize their hidden agenda and will again deprive them to form a majority and hopefully and preferably this time they will be voted out.

Excellent post by the Mod and also a very good point by WIT. I agree completely WIT that sex workers should be able to support their loved ones and it never crossed my mind that living off the avails of prostitution can be extended to supporting family members from earned income and I don't think anyone has been prosecuted or even charged under this category so far but you are right, any prostitution law should extend to protect family members from prosecution. It is important that we also address other issues associated with prostitution. Governments must step in and support those sex workers who want out or with addictions with financial support, loans or temporary housing and health clinics to out the addictions to pave the way for a smooth transition to another profession. Public should be educated about sex trade and sex workers and the existing social stigma attached to profession must go away over time. The LE needs more funding, extended authorities and more resources and tougher laws to genuinely and effectively combat what I call the dark aspects of prostitution like human trafficking, forced prostitution, pimping, underage prostitution. The one question that I still do not have a clear answer and has not been clearly commented upon so far (as I posed in my original post) is how to deal with street level prostitution which is causing public nuisssance (harassment of mothers, sisters, daugters by clients in the neighbourhood, traffic jams, scenes being viewed by children .....)??. We have to find a compromise between the right to work for sex workers and the public safety or concerns. I have been thinking about the subject since my original post and I believe while voluntary prostitution in private between consenting adults should be legalized, however, it would be best that solicitation or prostitution in a public view should remain illegal but designated areas (away from public view) should be assigned for street sex workers to work safely and under LE protection.

There has been plenty of news coverage about prostitution laws in Canada especially with conservative MP, Joy Smith recommending the adoptation of some part of Swedish model which buying sex is illegal and punishable harshly up to six months in jail while selling sex is legal and the recent Ontario's Superior Court of Justice ruling that the Criminal Code provisions relating to prostitution in Canada contribute to the danger faced by sex-trade workers and therefore throwning out key provisions of Canada's anti-prostitution laws. I am curious to know what you as a private citizen and as a likely service provider or hobbyist think the correct prostitution law for Canada should be?. I realize that this is a hot topic. Please note that this is a debate and exchange of (relative) views and educational and there may be no absolute right or wrong on this subject. I start the debate by expressing my views as a private citizen: In my view both the Swedish model of prostitution law (recently spread to Norway and Iceland) and the liberal German/Dutch prostitution laws (also implemented recently in Australia and New Zealand) are unworkable and not proper for Canada. I believe while governments must combat the dark aspects of prostitution more vigorously and must put aside sufficient funding and law enforcement resources to fight off forced prostitution, underage prostitution, pimping and human trafficking as well as legislating harsh punishments for human sex traffickers especially those pimping and forcing the underage as well as those clients who knowingly hire the underage or forced prostitutes, however, the voluntary prostitution between consenting adults should be legalized and regulated. I am not sure what would be best policy for solicitation (and prostitution) in public view (causing public nuissance) as whether it should also be made legal or remain illegal. Likely designated areas away from public view should be assigned for the street sex workers to work in a safe environment.. I do not believe that living off the avails of prostitution by pimps should ever be made legal, though service providers should be able to legally hire bodyguards and drivers. I also believe that service providers should be allowed to work as independents if they choose to do so and keeping a common bawdy house by a single or a group of service providers should be made legal too. Those who wish a change of profession must be supported socially and financially and special government sponsored programs must be introduced and put in place to assist those sex workers for their safe transition to a new profession. Sex workers must be able to report violent clients as well as pimps to law enforcement without the fear of being prosecuted. A media campaign must commence to educate the public about sex workers and remove the stigma associated with sex workers and their profession in our society. The fact remains that though likely most street sex workers are forced into prostitution (by their pimps or needs like drug addictions,?) however, I believe there are also many other sex workers (mostly using internet and review boards) who voluntarily have chosen the profession and who are working in a clean safe environment and enjoying their work too and the law must separate between the two. Bringing harsh punishments for both types of prostitution is unfair, illogical, undemocratic, counter-productive and totally unacceptable in progressive societies such as Canada. I believe that the former group must be assisted by the government to make a transition to a better life while their pimps punished and the latter group of service providers should be able to work in a safe environment legally and under the LE protection like any other tax paying citizen.

Barbs and Nuden are the likely candidates.

Very interesting statistics. My guess was a lot lower for hobbyists!!. Unfortunately (unfortunate for me) for SPs the figure is almost reversed (excluding asian SPs who I think culturally are mostly unshaven). Out of roughly 100 non-asian escorts that I have seen so far only a few have been unshaven. Same percentage applies to dancers.

Yes I noticed the recent changes too. Looks even better now. Great work Mod and again thanks for all the hard work. Great idea!!. How about January 1st which is also my birthday:)!!!.

Taking a good shower (and brushing the teeth) just prior to seeing an SP would take care of your hygiene for the date. I don't think shaving the pubic hair is absolutely necessary though it is a matter of choice (your choice). I may be biased though as most people know me I am not fond of shaving the pubic hair for anyone (especially an SP), as I have strong preference for unshaven (but recently showered) natural ladies.

Congratulations on very valuable 4000 posts and look forward to many more Pete.

Hear hear!!!.

As much as I would like to be optimistic and joyful and celeberate, I have to be realistic too. It is a long bumpy road to the end. We have a conservative government whose one of its MPs has recently recommended a Swedish style prostitution law in Canada which buying sex could be harshly punishable up to six months in jail, even the first time. The conservatives currently are in government have clearly shown their true color in opossing decriminalization or even relaxation of current prostitution laws in Canada and if they get their chance (a majority) they may and will go even further and criminalize all forms of buying sex including even voluntary gift for sex between consenting adults and outcall escorts too!!!!.. Nothing has changed since yesterday and nothing be will changed unless the brave and courageous activists continue their struggle for the rights of sex workers to be able to work in a safe regulated environment. Celeberate if you would but don't put your guards down as yet lol.

Not sure if you mean someone who is dressed as schoolgirl or someone who has the same looks or looks the same age as a schoolgirl. If latter, then Vicky looks very young and always wearing skirts too. Very cute young looking 20 year old whom if I see on street not knowing her, I would think she is just coming home from school. She is vicky20 on cerb (and a close friend and roommate of Karine too) and she has a recommendation thread too. Album pictures of cutie princess for you: http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/album.php?albumid=2140 As cute as she looks in pictures she is a lot cuter in person and she is a total GFE in services and soul lol.

Another well stated post by Scott. Totally agree about being influenced by valuable cerbites you named and many other cerbites for which the list would be too long lol (yourself included). Also Lets acknowledge cerb which makes it possible for valuable members to come on board, and bring their class, dignity and respect to industry and the mod who works so hard to keep this board classy and dignified and respectful and therefore giving the industry the respect that it deserves.

Very well said Scott.

While we are debating the possibility of decriminalization of prostitution and its results, the reality may be totally different. Do not put your guards down. Celeberate and have fun but what Scott said is the exact scenario that I am very concerned about and is real. Hopefully they will be voted out before that happens.

Now we need a progressive government which would take the right course of action and bring up Canada to the same standard as other progressive countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Holland, Germany,..... Somehow I don't feel the current government is up to the task lol. Lets vote for one in the upcoming election lol.

This is great news for sex workers and hobbyist alike. Congratulations everyone:). Just a couple of weeks ago a conservative MP was talking about making it illegal to buy sex. This decision is a slap in the face for all those religious conservative ultra right morans who want to impose their moral standards and beliefs upon others and the whole nation lol.

The following are pieces of the an article regarding the pros and cons of the Swedish model of prostitution law. It?s not uncommon for women in low paying service and secretarial jobs to turn tricks on the weekends or for a women trying to put herself through university to free lance dance at her local strip club. Stripping, writing pornography, nude photos, internet webcams, porn films, escort services, massage parlours, phone sex, peep shows, personals ads, street prostitution ? you name it, it?s a women dominant business; it?s also one of the only businesses where women can make more than men. Swedish supporters argue that the new system has sponsored more collaboration between the police and social services and therefore more sensitive treatment of prostitutes. While this might be the case in some instances, violence from clients has reportedly increased. A recent Norwegian government sponsored study found that in Sweden, "? violence is an everyday occurrence for women involved in prostitution. Women tell of violence in the form of major attacks, rape, threats with knives and with being locked up. Obviously, being locked up for very serious offences. Proponents of the Swedish model argue that women are more likely to report crimes such as these to the police. Swedish sex work activist Rosinha Sambo, on the other hand, dismisses this outright and claims that sex workers are actually less likely to call the police because if fellow workers and clients find out, the prostitute will become stigmatized and clients will be afraid to visit her. Prostitutes talk of the new tougher existence that they face on the streets. The decreasing numbers of clients (through fear of arrest and clients seeking prostitutes in neighbouring countries) creates a more competitive market where women need to reduce their rates and are more likely to agree to sex without protection. Reports also indicate that due to the negative social stigma attached to prostitution and the greater risks for the clients, the so-called more ?normal? clients (i.e. non-abusive men looking for fairly straight sex) are no longer purchasing services and what?s left are the aggressive men who are interested in rough sex and other higher risk behaviours . Women are also forced to make split second decisions about whether to accept a client?s offer as any conversation in public could lead to his arrest. This effectively puts women in the situation of having to protect her clients and doesn?t allow her the necessary time to assess the situation using her learned intuition to get a sense of her safety. Effectively, Swedish prostitutes and others are arguing that since the laws on the purchasing of sexual services have come into play prices for services have decreased, sex without condoms and violence have increased, clients are forced to go to neighbouring states, and the industry has been pushed further underground. The Swedish system seems to be working fine for politicians and the feminist movement but reportedly not for the sex workers. The implications of having a criminal record for prostitution-related offences can have a devastating effect on people's lives, preventing them, for example, from getting a job once they decide to leave the trade. The incidents of street prostitution (or at least it visibility) has plummeted since the introduction of the tough prostitution laws in Sweden, though such statistics are being argued. Same argument exists for human trafficking as the criminal are now seeking easier markets like neighbouring countries. My views: I believe that both the Swedish model of prostitution law and the liberal German/Dutch prostitution laws are unworkable and not proper for Canada or anywhere else. I believe while governments must combat the dark aspects of prostitution more vigorously and must put aside sufficient funding and law enforcement resources to fight off forced prostitution, underage prostitution, pimping and human trafficking as well as legislating harsh (up to several years) for human sex traffickers especially those pimping and forcing the underage as well as those clients who knowingly hire the underage or forced prostitutes, however, the voluntary prostitution between consenting adult should be likely legalized and regulated. Those who want a change or out must be supported socially and financially and special government sponsored programs must be introduced to assist those sex workers for their safe transition to a new profession. Sex workers must be able to report violent clients as well as pimps to law enforcement without the fear of being prosecuted. A media campaign must commence to educate the public about sex workers and remove the stigma associated with sex workers and their profession in our society. The fact remains that though likely most street sex workers are forced into prostitution (by their pimps or needs like drug addictions,?) however, there are also many other sex workers (mostly using internet and review boards) who voluntarily have chosen the profession and who are working in a clean safe environment and enjoying their work too and the law must separate between the two. Bringing harsh punishment for both types of prostitution is unfair, illogical, undemocratic, counter-productive and totally unacceptable in progressive societies such as Canada. It only serves the politicians to show off their good face or intentions and feminists who have clearly misunderstood the meaning of feminism which is about equality not unequal treatment of sexes when sex workers (overwhelming majority are women) are free from prosecution and their clients (overwhelming majority are men) are being harshly prosecuted.

Absolutely Cato. Thank you again for all your valuable contributions (as you know number 2500 has a specific significance to me). Your posts are always honest, considerate, valuable, balanced, logical, friendly, full hearted and respectful and your mere presence on this board has made this board a much better place to be. Look forward to reading another 2500 very friendly and valuable posts.

SA perhaps this is because for some reason they chose to be dancers and not escorts? It will of course be an easier task with an escort as she is advertising for that. Oh, I certainly did not mean to offend anyone Isabella. Justing stating the facts as I view it iin my experience. I meant to say with escorts it usually takes a call and once they agree to show up FS is usually part of the service. Not so with dancers though. With dancers usually you have to earn their trust. Know them and they know you. Invest some time and money on them and even then once they agree to come and see you FS may not be part on the menu (not that I expected or even on those few occasions that was offered, I refused). In my experience dancers who agree to come and see you, are looking for long term relationship (more like the ones you pick up at dance bars) than providing temporary girl friend experience to earn some cash, though earning some cash on the side is their goal too. Yes I agree. Likely that is why they have chosen to be dancers.

Yes I agree with kubrickfan. Earn the dancer's trust over time and prove to her that you are a classy safe gentleman (and likely well off too). I must say that (unlike escorts) it is not an easy task. I have had a number of dancers at my place (in the past) a number of times however only after spending hundreds possibly thousands on her at the strip bars to earn her friendship and trust (and sometimes no matter what you do or how much you spend on her, some will never accept outcalls) and no, never had sex with them just private dances at home which included lots of huggings and kissings and sometimes (not always) daty too. To answer your question I would say a small percentage of dancers would do outcalls.

Happy birthday bucken and many happy returns.

A very happy birthday to you Isabella and wish you many happy years ahead.

I don't wish to speak on anyone's behalf but my personal understanding by reading the post was that no analogy was used for the ladies but since we are gifting/donating for ladies' time and companionship and some would also suggest their services (rather than paying for the lady) so the analogy was meant as a comparison between quality time and services provided by the ladies and other services rather than the ladies themselves who are not on sale which means in my view no one objectfied anyone anywhere.

I find this thread very interesting. I never thought I would be ever interested in international exotic resorts lol as in my view Canadian girls are the best. However with recent noises about the swedish epidemic spreading, I have started thinking about travelling to international exotic resorts instead of hobbying here, if the epidemic spreads to Canada too, bite my tongue (may be once every few months instead of every weekend) and this thread includes a few interesting links. Thanks Cato for starting this thread and thanks everyone else for commenting and attaching links. Btw, in the first link, the number 4 destination (Reykjavik, Icaland) is likely out of date as new prostitution law has spread to Iceland too in 2009, similar to sweden makes buying of sex illegal!!!.