Liv Waters

All the best to you and yours Nicolette. oxox

I thought it would be fun to start a thread about the things we do in a day "just because". So, here it goes; I bought tulips for a friend just because :)

I really appreciate the way you put this 'Dear Client' letter out there for all of us. I'm not sure of how you would describe its meaning Regent, but how I see it is that, sometimes, it just feels good as an SP to unburden our heavy hearts and to give voice to the bigotry that we find ourselves in the midst of when carrying our our work and sharing intimacies with clients. Yes, it exists at the level of society...yes, it is a deeper problem that extends beyond the four walls shared in a session....But, I feel that, in writing this note, Regent, you are, in a way, speaking out to consciousness and giving voice to something many of us experience in the course of doing our work....it helps us to feel connected to each other in our concerns. And, if it helps even one person (beyond the rest of us SPs) to reflect a little more, then we are all better off for it. Thanks for writing this :)

I think its totally fair and makes complete sense to consider BBBJ along with other services (Greek, DATY, kissing...) part of a spectrum of services SPs have every right to refuse to provide for any reason as a legitimate claim on their rights to optimal health & safety. And, yes, while this thread is about gonorrhea, it's also become about issues of risk relative to BBBJ and other services as well. The NZ model represents the most ideal model in practice which we can draw and build on here in Canada. But, it does not mean a copy and paste approach is warranted. The idea that we will see success by outright banning sexual practices such BBBJ is nonsense. Again, creating markets, and expanding the rights of providers, including those who work for agencies to refuse ANY services they feel uncomfortable (or any client they feel uncomfortable seeing) with is alot more realistic. Aggressive educational campaigns and access to services that promote personal responsibility for ones's sexual health, including clients doing so will be another important piece. Along with increasing access to STI testing....hassle free clinics etc, and better educated and more receptive GPs. To go with this, mandatory health testing will also be a huge mistake despite many people saying it's a great idea, as it will create illegality where it did not exist before....where those disenfranchised from the formal registered system will be on society's shit list....and where all of the blame and medical control will be placed on the bodies of sex workers, instead of on clients and the general population. So, what's the connection between the mandatory testing and regulatory measures against BBBJ? What are we going to do?: Start fining workers who provide BBBJs to their clients?....How do we go about determining their 'risk levels'? Do we start tracking all SPs sexual partners in private to see whose bare cock they are sucking, maybe who they have screwed bareback on their own time and then use that as a reason to say, hey, no kissing and no daty with your clients....cuz you COULD have gonorrhea and/or you COULD give your client herpes. Banning BBBJs is going to create a specter of illegality and stigma. Bad idea! Sex work is not and has never been a level playing field. And standardizing sex acts like McDonald's happy meals is not going to resolve that.

I find these kinds of threads about BBBJ really irritating. Not because conversation about shared intimacies and health matters shouldn't be had, but because of how talk about sucking dick quickly shifts into the 'politic of the ick' (a term coined by sexologist Carol Queen). I will speak for myself. I love making out, I love having my pussy licked, I love sucking cock, alot of the time BBBJs and CIM (oh yeah baby), and, yet I do not identify as a PSE at all. Not a meaningful term to me. I'm GFE all the way. I do not make clients wear a dental dam to give me oral, and I do not put saran on my face when playing tonsil hockey. There are plenty of service providers, including popular and highly reviewed SPs who do not do BBBJ (understandable, and a very personal decision), but the idea of being concerned over providers 'being compelled' to provide BBBJs, and then omitting the way we normalize and by and large broadly accept DFK and DATY as meaningful and commonly provided services inherent to the work, (providing GFE), is problematic. Assessing the risks, negotiating the fun to be had, and getting regular health checks including throat swabs is a must. Let's not turn all SPs into victims of risky clients, and let's focus on empowering workers to enjoy working conditions where they can refuse work they deem unsafe....not to mention increasing access to non-stigmatizing STI health screening, and ongoing education. Signed, Cum lover

all I can say is yum, yum, yum...coming to Ottawa in June ;P

Wow, beautiful...to be that woman caught up in that 'frame' is something special indeed :)

I too have been hooked on the Hannibal series, and was really surprised to see how well it's been interpreted for this format. Just watched the latest episode an hour ago...messed, cerebral and awesome!

There's alot of garbage being layered onto certain sex workers in the industry. There's a dichotomy between the image of the put together worker, self-assured, autonomous, and in control...no mental health or self-esteem issues...acting as her own woman, strong as hell. And, then there's the worker with no business skills, not knowing her worth, with low self-esteem, willing to do God knows what with her body....drugged out, controlled by a pimp, and needing to be managed for her own good. Or, left to her own devices while the rest of "us" supposedly figure out what is 'truly' of benefit to our industry overall. And, then, there's statements being made about who has seen more of the 'exploited', 'messed-up', unfortunate 'ignorant' types', and how that allows one to make potentially more insightful judgement calls about the need to minimum pricing and regulatory measures....and the right to construct prostitute typologies I might add. The dichotomy (between the healthy, competent and knowing sex worker, and the screwed up, pimped druggie with no economic sense) and the prostitute typologizing are what I want to bite into here. And, I'll use personal narrative to illustrate some of these aspects, but keeping in mind the broader connections between our lives...that all of the pieces do not have to match up perfectly to provide insight....that personal stories can be applied in such a manner as to not blanket or overgeneralize a discussion, or over-personalize a debate to the point where discussion becomes impossible. These are the things I have in mind as I share. I started in this industry at 17 years old. The choices, as I experienced them, were tough and few and I was highly motivated to get out of poverty and an abusive living environment, which was obviously distressing. Within a year I found a decent agency manager to work for. I had very little business knowledge to start with: what to charge?, what was a fair cut to give to a manager?, what services to provide?, what services was I comfortable with providing?....how might my financial needs and motivations, my life immediate circumstances, trump some of these considerations over others? ...and, believe me, sometimes I have made choices that have left me feeling like shit....sometimes the choices didn't feel like fair choices....sometimes, I was layering on self-judgement that didn't need to be there about the choices...hmmm, I wonder where all of that judgement comes from? My earlier years in the industry allowed me to observe my manager and all of the tasks she carried out to run a business, many of which I was too busy to want to do myself, some of which I lacked the social and economic capital and personal organization to do, and others aspects I just needed time to think on if ever I wanted to become an independent (screening clients etc.). I experienced the work as exhausting, frustrating and stigmatizing at times, but also as stimulating and fun (always meeting new people, sharing stories, learning about the psychology of sex), and flexible in terms of how portable the work is, and being able to make larger amounts of money in shorter periods of time. In a relatively small Northern Ontario community, I gave a third of every hourly fee I made to my manager. At the time, the going rate for a bustling and established escort agency was $150 an hour. After I paid my agency fee, and my taxi fare (it was all outcall based), and based on the example of a one hour date, my take away without any other expenses considered (condoms, clothing, grooming etc.) was about $80. This is considerably less than I command now as someone who works independently, in another region, and a decade later. But, I was more than ok with those terms...accepted them and they worked just fine for me, and were highly preferable relative to the other work that was available to me at the time. Thinking back to that situation, if I could have finagled low overhead and the right incall setup, I could have charged $80 an hour and made out just as well or better (think no travel time to appointments), but goodness knows then I would have been labeled by others in the industry as a 'low end' ignoramus. Interesting. Long story short, sex work arose as a highly constrained AND also an ideal and flexible economic option for me. It took time, opportunities to connect with other workers, and reading related literature (not easy to find at the time) for me to begin to make sense of things....to carve out various options for myself, to politicize what it means to be a sex worker, and to challenge my own internalized assumptions about 'whores', while also challenging dominant social ideas about sex workers, both demonizing and infantilizing. The learning curve has been steep and complex. And, my life options, my formal education, my business savvy, my self-awareness, and my sexual development have evolved. Having made a foray back into the industry several months ago (after a long pause away, but still engaging in related activism all the while), I find myself in a different phase as a sexual labourer. I work for myself, set my own rates, and screen my own clients, and, over time, I've had more opportunities to become a part of the sex working community, to fight for our rights, and to benefit from the rich relationships it holds I also take time to remember the whole journey, the teenager that was me, and I have had moments where I've been struck by her ingenuity. Whatever I lacked in business or economic smarts, I made up for in volumes with the savvy that can only come with street smarts...off the cuff, quick thinking, and tremendous resourcefulness. Few people would take the time to fascinate over the narrative of socially and economically marginalized woman if she is working for pennies at the local Tim Horton's....with a Manager on her all the time like a fire breathing dragon...thankless customers, running her ass off, barely covering the rent, leaving little or no time for her to pursue, or dream about other life options. And, few would make so many qualifying remarks if she struggled in her sense of self, maybe even struggling with depression, or an intimate partner who abuses her physically, financially. Why? Because we gloss over that kind of marginalization: cuz she's working for the man, towing the line of normalcy....her purported "dysfunction" is a familiar, benign kind. [And, yes, I am gesturing at the role of internalized whore stigma in this thread masquerading as disinterested concern and professional rhetoric over industry standards.] So, why is it acceptable to make all kinds of qualifying remarks about sex workers who may charge less than others?....who may be following a business model that makes sense for them?...who may be working for a manager who takes a cut, maybe even an unfair cut of their earnings?...who may struggle in his or her sense of self. What about the role of decrim?...about upholding the legal rights of sex workers to switch managers or leave the industry without fear of retribution (providing legal recourse and a climate of social support for him/her to do so)....just one of a number of examples where we can make changes without fixating on the pathology of individual choice, or lack thereof. What about we make space for the understanding that there will always be sex workers who will never fit into the mould of the happy, healthy hooker, and to count these members of our community in as equally insightful and valuable. It's not too hard, considering that some of the biggest leaders in the sex workers rights movement are people who have been street involved, who are or who have been drug users, and, yes, trauma survivors. A number of these people, all women, are some of my closest friends and confidants. We do not all identity with the same struggles, with the same privileges and oppressions, or industry experiences, but we see each other as equals and colleagues nonetheless. It's also been mentioned that there are workers who really aren't wanting to do the work but have few other options. Let's fight for those increased options....while also recognizing that there are plenty of folks in the mainstream workforce who hate their shitty jobs, don't know how else they will pay their bills, and can't seem to get their foot in the door what with all of the nepotism out there. Let's advocate for their increased options too eh? When we dichotomize and qualify sex worker identity in the manner I've seen happen in this thread, there is tremendous erasure that occurs; erasure of the parts of ourselves, our private moments which are deemed unsavory, shameful, desperate; erasure of the ongoing vulnerabilities we experience in the industry(, because regardless of what we charge or where we work, we all experience a level of vulnerability); and erasure of the contributions of fellow sex workers who have and continue to fight for our rights. I love being a sex worker, and I see the work as skilled and honorable work (as my vocation), yet, sometimes, I still am left feeling like shit...sometimes I feel confused. I carry all of my life history with me, beautiful and ugly. But, hey, don't we all? Isn't this ok? What happens when, for some of us, it is not ok? ...what then is the role of totalizing statements about certain people's lives, their work?....does it not function as a mechanism for distancing?...for asserting a sense of personal entitlement and relative legitimacy? what happens when we resemble a stereotype?....what happens when we face the pain of resembling a stereotype? ...what happens to us when the person who resembles the stereotypes is held in our minds eye as a respected colleague?. Hmmm, what then?

Thank you for this response! I could not agree more with all you have said.

Zinger: A finger slipped into the anus during oral sex to provide extra stimulation. Mmmmm

There are so many kinds desires to be fulfilled... but two I can think of for myself (and not necessarily in the SP context) is: 1) some more MMF action as it's been way too long (oh yeah!), and also lots more play with sexually dominant/assertive/demanding women (double, oh yeah!!). Oh, and, I just wanted to say to the gents that who gives a shit if your fantasies are not about swinging off of the chandeliers, or if they might sound more vanilla than others....point is, they are your fantasies, and it's wonderful that you are sharing them, oxox

I'd say (a quiet) confidence, quirkiness, and an off-beat sense of humor are pretty high on my list, along with intelligence. Yeah, these things do it for me :-D

June 5th would be awesome, but that's just my self-interest talking (hehe)...as I'm planning on being in Ottawa during that week. Really looking forward to attending another social!...the thought of bare legs, a breezy dress and open toed heels makes me happy...can't wait for summer :-D

I collect all kinds of multicolored glassware....I have a particular affection for carnival glass.

I have a funny feeling you will start to see more videos on BP ads because I just received a notification from BP stating that they were allowing videos on ads at no extra charge (from what I can recall)....and, not all ladies have or maintain a website. Cheers! Anna

here, here!

You know what mtentertainment77? Your comment is a thinly veiled statement about personal preference. You may as well say bull like: "I'd only let a fat chick blow me", because that's what you're gesturing at....and, you know, there's another board for that crap.

Thanks for getting this information out there! I don't want to over complicate things, in terms of easy precautions the ladies can take to protect their pictures, such as watermarking, but I thought I'd also mention a con to doing it. Some of my past pics were watermarked. And, just as you suggested, it only makes sense to watermark close to the center of the image or it can be removed. Watermarks can appear as distracting to some who are viewing one's ad...I've had it remarked several times in regards to these past pics of mine that the slight obscuring of the image was of concern.... Just a thought :)

Your asked for feedback, and started a thread which is going to elicit honest discussion and comments about the themes many of us providing sexual services experience with men seeking our services. Those themes inevitably result in generalizations to achieve a very particular task, which in this case was to unpack the various reasons why some SPs choose not to see men under a certain age. I don't see any disrespect happening here. And, if you truly feel that you exude respect and maturity, consider taking the advice graciously given here about how to tactfully approach service providers in seeking their company. Good luck! Anna

I have a natural length landing strip, and she's just purrr-fect the way she is.

The whole topic of MSOG can take us in different directions when it comes to communicating with our clients or potential clients about this service. On the one hand, I've been asked to be clear in whether or not MSOG is on the table by gents who want to be sure that their time is their time and that I won't be ushering them out the door as soon as they have climaxed...some have felt downright insulted and hurt when they thought they were going to truly spend the full period of time with a lady, only to feel unwelcome after 15 minutes into an hour long session...alot of times the question is not just a about the hopes to have a second orgasm, but also to know that more touch and intimacy can be shared. On the other hand, sometimes the request or demand for MSOG comes from a not so great place....there are those who DO want that unreasonable guarantee in advance that they are going to 'get off' X amount of times, instead of also considering that it is ultimately my time they they are paying for, and not just a series of acts to be completed in order for the session to be considered a good one. I'll be crass here, because sometimes that's just the best way to go; there have been several times when I've gotten the sense, especially over text, that someone is looking for that guarantee of not just the possibility of further play/intimacy, but of actually 'scoring' X amount of times. When I feel like biting on it, I've put it like this: 'The time you pay for with me is the time that you get, and I care very much about you having a very enjoyable, hot, hot experience. If you want to give it another whirl with me, I'm your lady! What ultimately happens with your body, what you are physically capable of, is beyond my control though. So, to be clear, I am not a fuck doll and my comfort throughout the session needs to matter.' Putting it this way seems to really send the message home :)

Doing laundry. Yuck!.....hmmm, maybe a glass of wine while I do it may change my tune :-D

Wishing a very Happy Birthday to you Lee!! Ox, Anna

Welcome Claudia!