WealthyCowboy

It's nice to hear that whatever you can give will be appreciated, but I would see $10 as more for tipping after a massage than for a gift. Btw I find $10 really cheap as a tip unless the experience was downright unpleasant and I urge all men everywhere right now to do better than that. Surely, one can come up with a bit more (even if it means waiting a week). I suspect many do. To each their own though. But for gifts, I'd hate to be the guy to put $10 or $20 in a Christmas card. I think if I only had $10-$20 to spare (and that's ok - I started out with $0 in my pockets when I left home so I know a thing or two about that), but I'd go for a bottle of wine instead of a money gift. Am I wrong? Is cash still king? (Am I thinking too much again?)

I'm offering a ''platonic'' ''PJ's on'' cuddling service to my dog, also known as the Furry Canine Experience, not to be confused with the Furry Feline Experience or Screwing the Pooch :icon_wink: Seriously - I'm just snuggling my dog.

I often travel 30-40 minutes to see the lady I choose in the west end, but it's tough during the winter because the commute could be 90 minutes or more when it snows. It's like drivers lose their brains (and guts) and drive like wussies. I think Angela hits the nail on the head. The schedule reflects the supply and demand. I wonder why that is? What causes this to occur? Can it be that there are more west end guys visiting MA's than east end guys? Perhaps the MA's themselves live in the west end and don't want to commute. I know of some MA's that walk, bike or bus to work, so I do not expect these ladies to cross the city.

You're probably right. I plead guilty to overthinking. :icon_lol: I just like the hostesses so much and want to keep them all happy. :ThankYou: I guess I'm wondering about Girl Talk in the MA spa setting, as I expect that hostesses get to chat with each other quite a bit in between appointments. Would gifts received be kept private between the member and the hostess?

I always tip a MA, but I think we're talking about above and beyond that here. More particular, Christmas gifts. Kelly, I am curious if you have attended the CMJ Christmas parties and, if so, have gifts been provided to hostesses by members? I ask because it would be difficult for me to see all the hostesses individually at that time of year. I am concerned that giving a gift at the party to one lady and not another may hurt someone's feelings or be rude. Providing a gift to a hostess I've never met before seems odd to me, as generous of a person I can be. The obvious answer is that everyone likes to receive a gift and everyone needs money, but does that make sense? So what then - discretely provide a gift to each CMJ hostess I've seen this past year? (including you - yes, we've met before, and you're great :icon_smile:) What if I do not see my previous hostesses at the Christmas party and not again for several weeks or months? Perhaps tipping the next time would address that?

Thanks Kelly and Michelle. I appreciate getting a woman's perspective on this. Especially as your are both MA's and in Ottawa, like me. I was thinking along the same lines as Kelly because personal tangible gifts may pose a problem if the lady is attached. In my case, the lady has told me she is single, but I have no way of knowing if that is just a line to make me feel more comfortable. I'd like to think I can trust her word. In any case, it does not matter to me and I'd honestly rather she not talk about another man while we're together. So it's a win-win. Michelle raises a good point: a combination of a small gesture that isn't too personal and cash/gift card/Visa would be the best of both. It shows some thought and takes care of her. Another question: would it be typical or expected to give a gift to someone you've only seen once, but plan on repeating? For example, if I have recently seen an MA once in December, is that different from someone you have seen several times? And I realize that some guys don't give gifts at all and others will be generous, etc. But I'm just curious about the ''norm'' or ''customs'' if there is such a thing.

I think Bass Pro Shops redeems you RG. Thanks for the list of options. There is definitely something to pick from... Perhaps I'll book an appt and propose a panty shopping outing instead so as to get a glimpse of the panty selection process. :icon_wink: Unfortunately for me, the ladies I see don't all have websites with lists, but I agree with Ice that it is helpful if they do.

I totally agree. A gift is in addition to a regular donation and in addition to any tip provided. No question about that. I view it as a way of saying ''I appreciate you and care about you'' to the lady. I read a few posts in this thread that were suggesting that cash may be better for those ladies who are in need of $ to pay their bills. Might be sad to give a tangible gift when they'd prefer $ (and I'd never know because I know this lady has class and would have manners and be gracious to receive something) but IMO it would be terribly uncivilized to inquire as to what she'd prefer. I guess I'll have to make an educated guess based on what I know of her. Another question: how to go about picking a gift card if going that route? Which are the best ''for everyone'' options?

You raise a good point Angela. IMHO, east end is from Blair to Orleans. This is the area I was thinking of. I am sure there are plenty of MA's in that area. I have been spoiled by the likes of CMJ and Vibe. Perhaps we're just being fussy. :icon_smile: I think Someguy was just saying that his favorite spa girls have more time scheduled in west end locations than the east end locations.

Thank you for the suggestions RG and Ice4fun. All good ideas. My initial thoughts were that cash or gift cards are too impersonal. But I hear you that any gift should be well accepted. I guess the main concern I have is more in what the lady will imply from the gift if it is over-the-top. For example, jewelry or travel cards may come accross as me wanting more in the relationship realm and may be awkward for her. I'm also curious about what kind of budget to allocate for this. Too much or not enough may stand out. So, trying to avoid the shock factor, I'm thinking that $100-$300 would be a fair range and appropriate gift. Anyone disagree? I saw someone post they once gave 1K. I could do it, but seems like a ''you didn't have to|shouldn't have'' moment.

May I suggest, Someguy, that you start seeing more than one at a time? :icon_wink: I am curious, if you are willing to share with me, how many different businesses you would see in a month. Feel free to PM me if you'd rather not say in a thread. WC

I am looking for good Christmas gift ideas for someone special I have seen a few times and am very fond of. I have read through this thread and so far have seen jewelry, cash, gift cards, perfume, books, electronics and written notes. Any other ideas?

I also give thanks to ALO. I was swarmed by three ALO hotties at once who were all smiles and giggles. I must admit I have never been to ALO but I am very tempted to check it out. Can I have all three at the same time? :icon_biggrin: WC

CamillaBR: I understand your concerns about LE posing as a client. That being said, if they are the ones proposing something illegal to you it would be a criminal offence on their part under the new law. Perhaps the old approach of letting the client tell you what they want may assist. Also, screening methods or asking for references may help reduced those risks. There may also be an argument of entrapment and unlawful methods of gathering evidence in such cases. Entering a private property and using surveillance or recording devices may contravene a warrant's provisions. If it is just the officer's word against yours, IMO it should be simple to establish reasonable doubt and not be held liable for an offence. Just saying. I am curious if private businesses have had LE pose as a client and what the end result was. I would think that no charges would be laid, but if so I can't imagine it wouldn't be dealt with by a simple plea bargain with very light sanctions. Does anyone have an experience to share on point?

Ahaha. Thanks waterat and Satai. Good advice. I'm sure the ''rooster'' will crow three times before the session is up... :icon_biggrin:

Welcome. Hope you learn much here and get to ri-de the groove you're looking for.

Don't lie on your stomach. I never do :icon_biggrin: I usually lie down face up from the get-go unless the lady protests (they rarely do). But then again, I prefer 60 minutes of focused frontal massage. Seriously, unless you love affection on the posterior, ask for bodyslides and kisses instead. Face to face is the way to go. Additional Comments: And if you're doing physio, IMO you shouldn't be getting a hard-on. If it happens, fake an injury before you get back up and take your time.

CamillaBR: I recently posted my (lawyer's) view on the subject of LE and private locations in a thread on MA's at http://www.lyla.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=201043, but I'll re-post to this thread and add a bit. It may help alleviate your fears. LE has no legal right to enter the premises of an MA's/business' private location. It is private property and they would need to have a search warrant issued by a Superior Court Judge to enter on site, and even then LE is not allowed to enter by force. They typically wait for the owner of the property to arrive. This idea of busting down doors is only on tv. Neither the MA/business nor the gentleman would agree to open the door while someone is knocking during a session and would certainly not discuss what took place behind closed doors. So, just finish the session and then leave. Even if LE intercepts the gentleman or the MA/business operator on their way out, LE will have no evidence that any illegal activity has taken place. By the way, if you are ever intercepted you have no obligation to speak to the police other than to identify yourself. Just don't say a word and walk away. This whole idea of LE asking you to go down to the station for questioning (i.e. interrogation) is just on tv. Just say no. If they try to stop you, just ask if you're under arrest. If the answer is no, you are legally allowed to just walk away and not say a word. If you are under arrest, immediately say only 4 words: ''I want a lawyer'' and shut up. No charges will stick and you'll be released that same day. And with regards to spa's, this is one of the reasons I like CMJ Ottawa so much (and also because of Melodie and friends :icon_biggrin:). It's a private member's club, so it's not a public place. Their front door is locked at all times and members have to buzz in on camera and identify themselves as a member with an appointment to get in. Perhaps other spas will follow suit and become private clubs. The same would go for a MA/business private location. It seems to me that the best scenario for an indy MA/business is to have a place where you have to buzz or call to come up. That way, LE would have to identify themselves and be let in (which won't happen). Even if they get in the building some other way, and come knocking at the door, they can't just enter without permission of the owner or someone who is occupying the premises. I think its best not to answer the knock at the door during a session no matter what, but even if one did without thinking, the police can't just walk in unless they have a warrant or are invited. If they enter without a warrant, any evidence gathered from the illegal search and anything that derives from it will be deemed inadmissible in Court because it would be considered the fruit of the poisonous tree. Either way, private locations are the way to go... and nothing illegal ever goes on there.. Relaxe, Y2K will be over in a few more hours.

Hi Sylvia! So let me get this straight... I am clean, kind and generous = I get an extra something something. Nice!! I like this concept. Let's make it a rule shall we? :icon_wink:

Yes. Buy a generator, fill your bathtub with water and load up on batteries and dry goods. hahah How red their faces were indeed on Jan. 1st 2000.

I agree 100% with Someguy and I am glad he posted this. I've felt the same way for a while now, but didn't want to be the first to say anything. I live in the east end of Ottawa as well and predominantly go to CMJ. I've been to both locations and it is definitely geared towards west enders. I make the trek anyways, but it can take 30-40 minutes to get there sometimes, and worse in the winter. I am selective in who I see and tend to be loyal to those I've met who have stolen my heart. If those ladies came more often to the east end, I would go more often. I am not sure though, Someguy, that the ladies will enjoy being compared to chickens... perhaps hens, in which case I would be the fox in the henhouse? :icon_lol:

I add my thanks to the organizers. I enjoyed my first social and made a few new friends I would otherwise never have met. Mission accomplished.

And yet the sky has not fallen!! It kind of reminds me of the Y2K scare :icon_biggrin:

Perhaps we should have a Cuddle Booth at the next cerb social... :-)

In addition to my last post and in response to Lester, I don't believe a complaint from a neighbour would change anything. LE still has to get in the building and knock on the door. The MA and gentleman can still just ignore the knocking at the door. The only scenario that could be different is if the neighbour makes specific complaints about criminal activity going on there and LE gets them to swear an affidavit in support of obtaining a search warrant. That being said, most of the Judges I know would not grant the warrant without very specific allegations from the neighbour. Speculation alone would be insufficient. IMO, the neighbour would have to go as far as saying they have seen money exchanged and overheard it was some form of solicitation. BUT, in any event, LE still can't just bust down the door in executing the search warrant, so we're back to the sanctity of private locations. To go further, even if one were charged (which would be a wrongful arrest IMO), the neighbour's credibility could easily be torn to shreds by defence counsel and if the search warrant is quashed, all evidence derived therefrom is inadmissible and charges will be dropped. From speaking with lawyers, law professors and judges, I have been told that the real purpose of the legislation is to focus on what is visible on the streets and go after human trafficking. A noble cause. I hate the thought of human beings forced into the industry. The legislators are not interested in what goes on in the privacy of the nation's bedrooms (or hotel rooms :icon_wink:). IMO, the collateral effect of this will push the industry more in the closet and what happens in private locations will stay private. Additional Comments: In response to Vivero's post yesterday, I'd like to point out that raids have been made at some spas in Ottawa in the past few years, even before this new legislation was on the radar. It does happen. I was fortunate enough not to be there when they occured and have to deal with the stress that would entail. But I was told by a lady I know well what happens. Essentially, LE shows up but does not try to create a panic or be too forceful. They ask politely if they can just come in and check things out because they want to make sure that the conditions are clean and safe, and make sure the girls are ok and no one is being forced to work there against their will. Once LE realized that the MA's are there on their own accord (and it really is their choice), LE left without the threat of any charges. I was told that the gentlemen who were there got a pass and LE did not ask them for ID or interview them. It was all about the safety of the girls. And this goes to the heart of this matter. IMO, private locations are safe from raids because of the process involved to execute a search warrant. Public places are not. However, I believe spa's are a bit safer for the MA's as opposed to being independent. If LE tries to shake down all the spa's, alot of these very same ladies would go indy and this may increase the risks by being one on one with an idiot in private (I do acknowledge that indy's have their own safety practices, but still). The effect of closing down all spas is the exact opposite of what this legislation is intended to be. So I do not expect that the manner in which raids have been conducted in the past will change with this new legislation. And for those places that are doing human trafficking - they have it coming and I believe charges are well deserved, and I would commend LE for a job well done in those cases.