Orpheo12

Thanks @Greenteal. I just posted one in Thunder Bay Scams with the rhetorical question, "Can They Get More Fake?" and you immediately show me that the answer is YES.

https://www.leolist.cc/personals/female-escorts/northern-ontario/thunder_bay_pay_cash_100_real_100_call_me_for_fu_ck_avaliable_tonigh-7325429?source=list Simultaneously on Sydney, Summerside, Halifax and Thunder Bay! Check out her height and measurements.

Thank you for your thoughts, Liv. You draw me toward my better self, wanting to cherish the humanity in SPs. If you follow my few posts, one was a survey that passed unnoticed, I'd love your responses to it. I think you would be a fascinating person to interview, Peace.

EDITED. I have followed this post a couple of times and my gut says that no advice can be correct, because the circumstances of every individual are different. Long post coming. Using the M:F hetero pattern for clarity, but obviously men, women, Trans, Bi, can be any of these. RESCUERS I am a Co-Dependent "Rescuer" vulnerable to the "Pretty Woman" fantasy, imagining that Richard Gere can help Julia Roberts. But the truth is, she saved him! Now she may be a fiction (an SP with a heart of gold), but from what I see here, there are a great many SPs who work hard to keep their humanity, not become jaded, and genuinely care for their clients. As my shrink told me in 2001,, he does his work "with love" without getting confused by "Transference," by maintaining professional boundaries. So SPs may be way more mature at this than the average person; keeping "Love" well apart from "SEX." But a (former) Rescuer like me "loves" the one in need so she will need him. That can get toxic. So SPs avoid the clients who start to "fall in love" with them. Dangerous. Sometimes a Rescuer can actually help a victim get her act together VICTIMS: I victim wants to be rescued and does not take responsibility to help herself. When she learns to love herself and take responsibility for her own needs, she does not need the rescuer anymore. But Rescuers may turn Controlling to keep their partner in Victim Mind. Bad news. Either way, many Victims stay stuck begging for others to save them. The victim mind is often rooted in real trauma. they really were VICTIMS. It is hard to heal. Most get stuck get stuck in addictive and obsessive behaviors. CATFISHING: A rescuer is easy prey to a scammer playing out the romantic fantasy of a damsel in distress. Pretty Woman turns out to be Cruella deVille, thinking, If it is all about money, who not take advantage of the suckers? Donald Trump. But in my experience I have met far more Catfishing on dating sites. LL surely has many too, so beware!, But when I asked my SP for "Therapy" she was decent, honest, and acted genuinely caring (with her boundaries respected!). IMO SPs provide solace to a great many persons hurting bad, and desperate to feel loved through sex. Is the OPs SP truly in need? Quite likely. Does she play the role to pump suckers? Quite likely, but maybe not. Real grief happens and can overwhelm anyone. In an industry where you have to PRETEND all the time, it must be really hard to be able to speak to someone with genuine trust, who provides genuine consolation. Isn't that why SPs often bond to each other? But even if we are probably being played, and know it, some of us would rather help, even if we are pretty sure we are being played. WHY? In a world full of cruelty and deceit,acts of kindness proclaim our humanity, defending the the virtue of caring for one another. The Man of La Mancha knew his Dream was Impossible, and chose to pursue it anyway. That is nobiiity IMO. MOST GUYS? Yeah, I know. I prefer being a softy, and chose to relate to a stranger with respect and honesty, even if they are acting out. One poster said that Bad Boys do much better with the ladies IRL. Yes, I know. So be it. But the Bad Boys still have a hole in their heart. Mine is healing. BTW, genuine co-dependency is not healthy. We have to love ourselves first. I am working the Twelve Steps of CoDA (CoDependents Anonymous) to get there. I am becoming far more the kind of man I genuinely respect, while learning to set my boundaries and walk away from the bottomless pits of neediness. My SP helped me Take care of my genuine need. A turning point. But it remains hard not going back for more. From what I have observed in Lyla, most independent SP's manage to avoid getting sucked into dependency better than the rest of us. I am encouraged. But what to I really know? Thanks, Skyler!

In my single experience with a safe SP, she consented to receive massage with clear boundaries, at no additional charge. This was negotiated in advance and her rate was high already (inclusive?). Like GFE lacking kissing, daty or bareback anything. In a long-ago encounter with a MA including HE, I was delighted when she consented to massage and daty, but I imagine this was extraordinary.

As a client, I am torn between strong moral aversion to all forms of abuses of persons, and human trafficking especially, yet also respect the dignity of those who choose freely to rent out their bodies and provide emotional companionship for persons suffering from sexual addition, or feel themselves distressed by the lack of opportunities to express affection, share emotional intimacy, and enjoy sexual activities., Most of my life I have avoided all such service providers, yet I have a fascination including admiration with the challenges of sex workers and a desire to advocate for legalization and workers rights. I imagine that few if any here at Lyla see themselves as victims of human trafficking, and that prospective clients want it that way, yet it is a simple fact that the level of human trafficking all over the world is rising, and very likely that the rewards of being human traffickers are maximized when those they control pretend not to be. If fact, I consider it very unlikely that in most forums (and even here) that any person actually in that situation will feel free to answer truthfully. I did submit this as an anonynous poll, but it failed to upload. I invite informed comments to these questions. Please do not bother with one liners. This post is for those in this community who share my concerns and have thought about it a lot. For the question responses I ask that Human Trafficking be defined as occasional to constant performance of sexual services as a result of coercion by another person where the SP (you) did NOT feel free or safe to do otherwise: kidnapping; imprisoned; assaulted; extorted; denied basic human needs or forced into an addiction, with the result that the worker is forced to share most of their earnings with someone who controls them. [Many workers in capitalism may feel this is true of them as slaves to the almighty dollar; but for most the risks and potential stigma are much lower!] Using a scale of 1-5 for very little to very much, please expand on your insights in your answer to each relevant question: 1) In your opinion as a SP or equivalent, how common is human trafficking that you have observed in the industry, and are you free to answer honestly? 2) If you are free to answer honestly, and if saying so will not traumatize you, as a SP or equivalent how often have you personally experienced such coercion? 3) As a client, how unimportant (1) to very important (5) is it that your SP is not being trafficked, and you do or do not make special efforts to find SPs you BELIEVE are not victims? 4) As an SP or equivalent, how important is it for your clients to believe this? How often do they ask? How common are clients who actually prefer workers who are under genuine coercion? {Not slave/rape fantasies]

Sorry you have been scammed, Rena. With my bank e-transfers are explicitly non-refundable once accepted. But they can require a password that the client could provide upon making first contact. But that would be as bad as no deposit if the client was a fake. The other risk is banking information and identity of the sender. In normal use regular folk could not hack the bank but I am not so sure about the Russian Mafia doing scams, identity theft, ransom and extortion in the millions or billions.

bravenewworld1 General Member General Member 2 7 posts Report post Posted July 5 I assume it's a scam when they ask for a deposit in advance. The relatively low amount requested for the deposit makes me think they are doing this often and getting a decent amount of success. I usually play dumb to string them along so at least I get some cheap entertainment. IMO you are part of the problem -- a reason why legit workers need deposits.

To be 100% clear my SP told me she did delete her ad because she booked up (after I posted this inquiry, but before our booking), and does so regularly in each city. AND I totally agree about the percentage of probable fakes on LL. I just posted on that in the "Gift Cards" thread. Thank you for your replies.

I was solicited by two different (fake) SP's in Thunder Bay working the same scam: gift cards required but this is only disclosed once you have taken the bait. Then when arriving at the hotel she requests the codes BEFORE any form of meeting has taken place. STEAM gift cards are preferred. The seller at Walmart knew the scam so well she intercepted me and explained what would happen if I followed through. If you pay you are probably funding Putin's war, and definitely helping in money laundering. Both mine were via AdultFriendFinder pretending to be super horny, in to me (!!!) and make no mention of payment at all initially. Both sets of stolen pics (victims of romance scams, no doubt) were very beautiful, young but not SP in presentation (modest nudes with full faces), and way out of my league. These scammers make it hard for legitimate SP's to be trusted when they request a deposit from a new client. But in my case, the bait and switch motivated me to seek out a verifiable SP for the first time. Research! Check out recommended SP's on Lyla, and distrust most ads in LL or equiv. My last survey of TB ads suggested 50-80 % are probably fake. For example, multiple ads with identical descriptions, but different pics, or in different places at the same time? Too good to be true offers of anything and everything, usually with no mention of prices, or well below the standard. But I reason that some legitimate SP's will use the same ad and pics in different places sequentially in different places. Pics Provided: 1) Fake SP - edited to remove a pussy as sweet as her smile 2) Likely fake, current ad (name not given as she might be legit) 3) Likely real, temp in TB with reputation elsewhere (name not given by lack of permission) 4) Local "Amy" established in TB with recommendations (name given as she is known in Lyla) 5) & 6) Legit SP, "Skyler" - verified by experience, and recommended, but has vanished after Winnipeg

This Skylar? I also found her genuine and sweet. May 2022.

Yes, as I have learned. You summarize it very nicely. Thank you.

What I've learned: Lyla recommendations are vital. Only today did I find 2nd and 3rd pages in TB started in 2010 include some SP I was trying to verify. Counsel and kindness here are gold. IMO scamming is huge. NOT you! NOT here... but elsewhere, everywhere! In AFF in 2000 I met only real people. In AFF a month ago 20+ all working hard to pretend, and not a single context who proved to be legit. I should post on the indicators, but my point here is that people going crazy with the legitimate need for intimacy are extremely vulnerable, and the sharks are out there. So those shy about deposits don't know better, yet. My advice to those like myself: never trust an unverified ad. Never try an SP who does not have reviews in depth. READ THE RECOMMENDATIONS. In a small market, ask those active here for SP's that can be trusted, and then help them get you properly vetted, and book paying a reasonable deposit. WE are the risk, to them. I was lucky that my one and only encounter was with a real travelling companion I am not allowed to recommend yet. Money well spent, bbutnow it takes serenity to say "enough" when the budget says "no way!" A work in progress... All this to plead for kindness for those thinking with their dicks, scared and vulnerable, whom have yet to learn how to navigate the minefield of seeking professional ccompanionship. For lonely hearts like these you empathic professionals really are lifesavers. And guys... RESPECT! Thanks to many esp. @Sugar Kayne @Janebondage Lydia, @clearbluesky15 and many Maritimers whose advice keeps Lyla worth the read...

I am green enough that I have to follow a thread like this to understand what not to do. I am cluing in that sharing information is often (or always?) a boo-boo. and I can see how bruised egos prompt responses... and then there are members who just want to engage . . . hmmm. My ears are burning?

Thank you. I appreciate the generosity of many providing substantial replies. I am forgetting the name of the Admin you likely mean (Hardisty?) who had a devoted and appreciative following into 2021. I hope she is ok?

I am new here a few weeks. I started a few threads, and had a total "content" count of 10 when I posted a recommendation two hours ago. I was scolded for doing so without having already posted 5 posts? 1) I can't find the rule saying that is not allowed, or at least, stating how a member reaches the permitted threshold. 2) My content count led me to believe that I had reached that threshold. 3) I am also puzzled by reputational points, noting that some members with only 2 comments have 1000 points. 4) Where are these things explained? I have been looking. 5) Is it just me, or have other new members had teething pains? 6) I have found LYLA Invaluable at helping me avoid scammers, and want to be a positive community member.

Apparently I violated policy by attempting to post my recommendation... but my content count was at 9 or 10 when I posted it... and I was told I had not yet made 5 posts... how are these counted?

Thank you, @clearbluesky15, I did confirm Monday morning, met Skyler Monday evening, and just posted a recommendation. Meanwhile two others I had texted (earlier?) also replied the same day. Learning the proper etiquette is not easy, as inquiries from days and weeks ago had gone unanswered. The exception is @Sugar Kayne who corresponded kindly over the same period and I thank her again, though we have not met.

I am in Thunder Bay and not finding genuine responders. Nita's ad was up last night but gone today. Might you confirm if you met her and she can be trusted?

New Thunder Bay ads yesterday on Leolist and negotiated with a "Skylar" via text (587-8923958) for possible appointment for this evening May 30, but her ad (and others) are gone this morning. Usually old ads remain by date indefinitely. I did not save the ad or photos. Advice?

Hi Danielle, I agree -- but am also waiting not so patiently for a response. A long conversation with a local Lyla member who recommended others (TY! ) and says I can't afford her. Several introductions to others and no response at all. I think the reality is that Thunder Bay has very few if any really active. So what advice can you offer to a SP virgin no-one has actually met? 😉 EDIT: the first text was weeks ago and the conversation with SK over several weeks since. Last three introductions Friday with my birthday tomorrow. Guess I should have asked for a bike?

Really appreciate your advice to the OP. Clear, assertive, almost... commanding 😉

Thank you, Sugar Kayne. What is a reasonable deposit, since you reputable SW's need that? How do you vet me, as a Newbie? I gather an immediate "come on over" is a red flag. Finding current profiles with recommendations has not been easy. From my short time at Adultfriendfinder, IMO the majority (80-90%!?) of straight female profiles are scammers. My direct knowledge is thin, but most of my contacts follow the patterns. So strong assurances and verification are needed on both sides.

TY for necessary advice.

Follow-up. Is it legit for a SP to ask for an etransfer before meeting? How does the client avoid being scammed? But, also how does the SP protect herself and be assured of payment?