Consent in the Industry

[Midnite-Energies 110563]

With the all the emphasis on consent lately and how it should be a requirement no matter the relationship or length of relationship; how do you feel that lends itself to this industry? Should there be more conversations on consent and less assumptions? Should it (could it) be a constant thing during a meeting or, as pointed out in some media, does being in this industry reduce consent because there is an assumption of consent by entering into the agreement in the first place?

 

Also, considering the impact of C36 and the non legality of discussing anything sexual in relation to the industry, could this then become a fighting point against this bill as it limits the ability to openly discuss consent? Yes, you can still discuss it in private but is it infringing on the right to discuss it where and when one feels comfortable?

 

 

Any other thoughts surrounding this?

[Ice4fun 78407]

Choosing to participate in this industry should not in any way impact a ladies right to refuse to consent.... No is No regardless of the fact that there is a business relationship that might have implied consent. At ANY Point a lady can choose to say no and withdraw consent and that decision should be respected by the client.

 

While I strongly and unequivocally feel a woman always has the right to say no... To change her mind even at the last minute... I do think that where there has been a business arrangement that was agreed to openly by both parties if the lady chooses to not proceed it would in most cases (not if the decision not to proceed was the result of inappropriate behavior by client) be appropriate to reconsider the financial arrangements previously agreed too.

 

But No means No

 

Just my Opinion

[Amber Rose 19012]

Consent should very much be a part of this industry, as it should be a part of everyday life as well.

Not just for the women(though this is important since we should never feel obliged to do things we aren't comfortable with just because money is involved) but for the men and everyone else too! It is always good to check in with whomever you are playing with to make sure they are okay with everything, and even if that sounds like a mood killer, it really isn't! I've found myself lately always asking in a flirty and playful manner if it's okay before I start any kind of sexual activity with them, since in the past I've had a few men mention that there was something that I had done(like oral or kissing) that they didn't want or weren't comfortable with, but didn't know how to say it, and I just assumed it was okay. Never assume anything is okay without verbal consent!

 

Everyone has the right to back out of any sort of sexual activities if they aren't comfortable continuing, whether they were paid or not, though it is trickier in this business since of the money exchanged and services agreed upon, so it's hard to say whether payment should be negotiated, since it would entirely depend on each individual situation, and can really only be decided between both people involved.

 

Either way, consent is sexy! :)

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[Midnite-Energies 110563]

Thanks for that Amber, I think that was a point that I neglected to get across in my original post; consent from the client. Usually the focus is on the provider and doing what they feel comfortable with and with who. Turning it around and also having consent on the part of the provider to client is something rarely touched upon.

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

Yes Tracy that is an excellent point ! As a provider sometimes I forget not everyman wants the same fun as another. Even a simple kiss can cause someone to feel uncomfortable. I tend to read body language well, but once in while got an unexpected reaction.

 

But also , I find worth pointing out, is when I screan my clients if they can not follow instructions ie: booking protocols , I won't book because it makes me wonder if they can also respect my consent on activities. Basically , do they know what no means? Or also think of cohersion, I will never spend time with a person who tries to talk me into an activity I clearly stated that I do not enjoy.

 

Just to add to my thoughts conserning Bill c36

I find when I chat to my future visitor, I explain that I like to approach it as a first date. We can allow ourself to discuss what is comfortable and natural for us. Durring our first time together we will learn about one another likes and dislikes. After all this is about time spent not activies .

[VedaSloan 119179]

I see a lot of talk around the idea of "enthusiastic consent" (see here for an example: http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2013/03/enthusiastic-consent/) but while the intent is good, it doesn't actually work in the context of this industry.

 

This post explains what I'm thinking better than I could: http://titsandsass.com/getting-away-with-hating-it-consent-in-the-context-of-sex-work/

 

Food for thought.

[blue_eyes56 2010]

I see a lot of talk around the idea of "enthusiastic consent" (see here for an example: http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2013/03/enthusiastic-consent/) but while the intent is good, it doesn't actually work in the context of this industry.

 

This post explains what I'm thinking better than I could: http://titsandsass.com/getting-away-with-hating-it-consent-in-the-context-of-sex-work/

 

Food for thought.

 

That second article was an articulate eye-opener. Her comments about the industry are why I rarely see escorts, but I'd happily pay just to talk to her.

[Midnite-Energies 110563]

While that second article did indeed provide a different perspective and an interesting insight, I wonder how many people will read it and believe that is a blanket attitude among providers? It bothers me that people will read that and assign it to every provider as if it's fact. Not only that but that clients will read it and perhaps assume the same thing.

 

Yes, this is a created fantasy and everyone has their own reasons for being in it and their own approach and perspective but that article bothered me because it is not indicative of MY perspective yet many will assume it is.

 

I do like that the industry is giving extra depth and experience to the world of consent because it is not as black and white as it has been portrayed.

[CristyCurves 169032]

While that second article did indeed provide a different perspective and an interesting insight, I wonder how many people will read it and believe that is a blanket attitude among providers? It bothers me that people will read that and assign it to every provider as if it's fact. Not only that but that clients will read it and perhaps assume the same thing.

 

Yes, this is a created fantasy and everyone has their own reasons for being in it and their own approach and perspective but that article bothered me because it is not indicative of MY perspective yet many will assume it is.

 

I do like that the industry is giving extra depth and experience to the world of consent because it is not as black and white as it has been portrayed.

 

If they do read into it that it is representative of all providers isn't that their problem? Anyone who assumes any comment as "all encompassing" isn't about to be convinced otherwise and I would think would be the type to generalize most things. It was a truthful statement, just as yours is. We are all as you say" in it for our own reasons", some positive, some negative some swaying both ways. I think it's good to hear all sides and points of views, after all truths aren't always pretty nor are they always positive, but they are truths none the less. As much and as often as I enjoy my chosen profession there have been times that I've stared at the ceiling and counted down the minutes and possibly a client or two may have felt the same way, who knows. Human interactions can be complicated even when carefully selected and screened. I think no matter what some read they'll already have their preconceived notions and opinions formed anyways.

As with all relationships communication, imo, is the key. Especially when concerning consent and what each partner is comfortable with. I believe consent goes hand in hand with respect. Most respectful people will understand that no means no and yes means yes. That we all have boundaries and when they are shared, they'll be respected. Good topic btw, thanks for it:)

[oldblueeyez 15475]

I think for most guys if there's no consent than it's not fun, but there are a minority of men of get off on forcing themselves on women. A safe industry is one where there's an enforcer nearby to handle the riff raff.

This works very well in beautiful Prague.

[emb3750 9398]

http://magazine.good.is/articles/tea-never-looked-so-good

 

This pretty much sums up everything you need to know about consent, in terms everyone can understand....now, who's up for some tea? :)

[futileresistenz 28253]

What!? Into the 12th post and Roamingguy hasn't weighed in twice yet? (Just teasing, RG :P )

 

Great discussion so far, btw...

 

Thank-you so much, Traci, for starting this interesting thread. I've wanted to do it myself for sometime, but never seemed to be able to frame it properly. This is my opening!

 

Thanks for that tea video, also, emb3750. It will be useful in more than one way.

 

I'll try to be brief... *winks*

 

Consent is paramount in my opinion, regardless whether in normal relationships, or here. It goes hand-in-hand with respect for another person, whether it be your partner for life, or for a night. Hopefully you are emotionally invested enough to care what your partner feels and desires, and that they are willing participants in any and all activities that occur. It is not a given that everyone thinks and plays by that standard, however.

 

I think the recent exposure of this topic in the public sphere, brought on by the many quite high-profile tea-drinking scandals, is a good development. It is very much needed, whether there is a sea-change or watershed moment in attitude shift will remain to be seen. By some accounts, the 'new' metric of 'enthusiastic consent' muddles previous guidelines, some say the gradation of consent in this way is a feminist plot to label all tea-sipping activity as 'tea ritual violence' (something I think preposterous). I regard this apparently new standard to be better, and really have always abided by it, it is a matter of being in tune with the other on a new level. True, I may have missed out on beating the record for 'closing lucrative tea deals' (shudder), but spending intimate time with a lovely lady, regardless of whether it just happens to be talking, laughing, cuddling, breaking out the Earl Grey, or any number of other fun 'shenanigans' ;), has always brightened my days, anyway.

 

Just my 0.02

FR

[Midnite-Energies 110563]

Thanks to everyone for the input so far. I do find replies are lacking from the male side of things on how you feel consent should be handled in regards to YOU. Do you want someone discussing it prior? During? Consistently verbally or reading cues? Is this an issue from a male POV? Do you feel there should be more emphasis placed on male consent?

[futileresistenz 28253]

To answer those direct questions, as for me, ideally I'd prefer to discuss it in email prior, but as that is kind of out the window, at the start of the meeting (if necessary at all, as it may not be) is best. Extra emphasis on consent from a male POV is not needed - JMO.

[mrgreen760 37785]

It's really pretty much common sense and common courtesy. Though admittedly some do not have either.

 

I read the second article and not in all cases of course but I don't thinks its far off the mark.

 

Peace

MG

[Ice4fun 78407]

First to deal with Traci's question regarding male consent... well to be honest until you mentioned it I never really considered it... As I think back about the encounters I have had over the years I don't recall a time when the activities initiated by the lady have been unwelcome by me.. I appreciate that I am a pretty open guy so most likely even if i was surprised by the activity I most like would be ok with it.

 

I do think that my choice of ladies that I have seen may play a part in this whole thing as well as my general desire to connect with a lady during a visit. In terms of the ladies I choose to see they tend to be very reputable well reviewed ladies who are experienced in the industry and normally want some discussion on what type of experience I am looking for this prior discussion while not normally a menu based discussion does sort of pair a picture of the type of experience and therfore as long as the activities stay within this general area then I would think consent was implied by the continuing with the booking. In regards to my looking for a connection in my encounters I think this tends to manifest itself initially in the encounter with a longer period of chatting at the start of the encounter and this often sets the tone.

 

I read the article posted by Berlin that contained the concept of "enthusiastic consent" with great interest... Is enthusiastic consent necessary in my opinion probably not in most cases... I think people engage in sexual activity for many reason and that it is wonderful when both parties are Enthusiastic about their involvement I can think of lots of occasion when it might just be a part of their relationship that they willingly consent to even if not enthusiastically.

 

In the case of this industry I think it would be silly to expect that every engagement involves "enthusiastic" consent especially on behalf of the provider. I would hope the client was enthusiastic or else why is he making the booking but let's be honest this is a business relationship so while there certainly should be willing consent there is no requirement for enthusiastic consent. The lady is providing or fulfilling a fantasy so of course her behavior should seem enthusiastic engagement as she is creating an environment for her client.

 

Of course there is some risk in all of this... us men want the fantasy of enthusiastic engagement and to be made feel that we are, even if for just the duration of the appointment, the most important thing in the ladies day. If the lady or for that matter the client crosses the line from business enthusiasm into feelings that this is real then bad outcomes can happen so it is important that both parties not encourage the idea that there is more to it than a business arrangement if they don't really believe there is.

 

Just my Opinion

[oldblueeyez 15475]

As far as client consent goes, I've pretty well let the ladies do anything they want with me and most of it was frickin' awesome! Who knew I liked my Butter Finger battered?

 

 

As for consent in the civilian world? I pity the young men out there. It's part of the reason MGTOW is rising fast. Video games and porn is much safer. Any man in his right mind won't pick up at a bar or engage in any scenario where a female has indulged in alcohol or drugs; what's mutual passion at night is sexual assault the next day, seemingly fueled by a desire for social media sympathy and attention. Talk about Munchausen.

[Kathryn Bardot 99339]

http://magazine.good.is/articles/tea-never-looked-so-good

 

This pretty much sums up everything you need to know about consent, in terms everyone can understand....now, who's up for some tea? :)

 

While I love the tea analogy as a starting point for discussing the concept of consent, it's not always as simple as a yes/no answer: http://www.thedirtynormal.com/blog/2015/05/14/the-one-reason-i-havent-shared-that-teaconsent-thing

[Tempted Monk 5057]

Thanks to everyone for the input so far. I do find replies are lacking from the male side of things on how you feel consent should be handled in regards to YOU. Do you want someone discussing it prior? During? Consistently verbally or reading cues? Is this an issue from a male POV? Do you feel there should be more emphasis placed on male consent?

 

I would like to answer these questions in the context of "second article".

As it says "they want a piece of your soul' - exactly right, many of us, clients, pay for the illusion of having a small piece of soul, not just sex. And "Maybe 20% of the time I truly hate the sex,... and the other 60% is tolerating it" - to be honest, I probably prefer to know and pay for NOT being with that woman. This is the case when I want to use my consent for no.

Very personal opinion of course.

[peacectryguy 12547]

This is something that I think is very important in this industry. Just as much as it is in private relationships. The problem in a lot of cases, imo, is that there are many people out there who think just because you have your clothes off, that means you are consenting to whatever they had planned. Because we no longer discuss things before hand, we now have to wait until behind closed doors. And often, things start getting going a little too fast.

Now, I realize that guys are paying for time and some feel it is costing them dearly to "talk" but honestly, 2-3 minutes of chit chat to understand what the limits are is not all that inconvenient and could honestly make the whole encounter that much more enjoyable when one stops to think about.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as excited as any when meeting a lovely lady and she is "enthusiastic", to say the least. But sometimes, I really want a little tamer encounter just because that's the mood I'm in. Maybe I just don't want to go through with the whole thing either. Day to day stresses have got me somewhat unable to feel amorous and maybe I just want to lay there and cuddle and talk. After all, I pre-booked the time, possibly sent a deposit and don't want to be one of those "last minute cancelled" guys.

I also think there are days when an SP has had a not so good encounter or a rough time due to outside forces and maybe things get a little overwhelming. She does her best to put on a brave, happy face and give me, her client, the best service possible. I appreciate that very much but if she really doesn't want to, I would like to think I am man enough to accept her desire not to continue. The notion of "I paid so I get everything I want." is something I don't care for. It is immature and vulgar. Most men wouldn't do it with their wife or girlfriend so why would they think it is okay with one of these women?

Maybe I won't be the most popular with this POV but women in this industry deserve the same considerations that every other woman expects in our society. We shouldn't lose sight of that just because of the transaction involved.

[MickeyG 502]

That's a very interesting question, actually. I believe that it's essential to be able to talk about what you'll consent to before you meet. That shouldn't ever be illegal under any circumstances. Using vague terms like GFE isn't enough - people need to be able to directly ask an SP what she's comfortable with. It's the only way. That way, everyone walks away happy.