Liv Waters 52360 Report post Posted October 3, 2015 I wasn't sure if I wanted to post on this topic... I've wanted to for some time, but they are loaded matters that can make a person feel vulnerable; that can result in hurtful and dismissive remarks, even if they are worded in what one may think of as a 'polite, PC' way. However, BBW as a term and descriptor for companions is currently being discussed/debated elsewhere and I thought, ok, 'giver'. I also tried searching the terms BBW (too few characters for a search) and Big Beautiful Women and came up with nothing. I know there are threads on this topic with lots of valuable commentary, so if anyone wants to post them in a reply so we can all benefit, that would be great. The particular thread I'm referring to is: http://www.lyla.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=219642 And, so, while I will indirectly make reference to it, because it spurred my desire to post on the topic, I want to cover more ground than this, and to do so separate from this above thread because it is supposed to be for recommending Big Beautiful Women in the industry. I wish to do so though relaying some of my experiences. BBW is a loaded term. It has a history of having both positive and negative connotations. At its best, it signals to a way of describing beautiful women of ample body sizes; women who sport very generous curves. There are many men who take great delight in sumptuous, super curvy women and there are plenty of women who capitalize on satiating those desires... of catering to and inviting a clientele that appreciates these physical qualities. At its worst, BBW becomes a catch all phrase in this industry for just about any woman who is not thin... and often a derogatory way of putting women down... of degrading value, of patronizing. The term is also often used to describe women who happen to have hourglass or pear shapes, or curvy thighs, or a juicy looking bum. It is used to justify (or delegitimize) bodies as a disclaimer and an over-qualifying term in reviews and recommendations. How many times have you seen commentary like: "she's a BBW, *BUT* with really nice curves".... or "she's not really a BBW... I like em curvy...and she's really great... totally my type, *but* *just a heads up*, *she's not a spinner guys*". In the first example, it's clear that BBW is often understood as not really indicating attractiveness, even though the descriptor "beautiful" is part of the term. It has to be qualified to justify that even though she's "big", she's big in the "right" way (as though the general description already provided and a lady's photos are not enough for a potential client to judge for himself). In the second example, any woman who is not thin, who has remotely any body padding, or curvy features to her frame is subject to the BBW term being used as a qualifier to describe her, whether its to provide reassurance that 'she's not too big', or 'you should really see her, but I'm warning you, she's not thin. I've witnessed this behaviour from both BBW 'enthusiasts' and BBW bashers alike. In pretty much any thread that is supposed to promote a BBW or seek recommendations for ladies advertising as BBWs, you will almost always see full out nasty comments about bigger women, insulting remarks towards the men who enjoy them, or at least commentary that has to dig at some sense of inadequacy. It is not unusual for this to be done in medicalized terms, such as "she is overweight"... and 'by this much'; as though a BBW's mere existence in this industry entitles certain hobbyists to get out the scale and Body Mass Index chart to start making their calculations. Regardless of intention, it's not ok. It's actually harmful, including to those of us who make every effort to embrace our bodies and to show and share them in the best light. If you don't like it, move on, and, if you do like it, please don't dig an ugly hole with over-qualifying remarks about what makes a lady a worthy companion, as beautiful, or big or small enough...or make assumptions about whether she wants to be called a BBW at all. When in doubt about whether a given woman wishes to market herself in this way, do the considerate thing and ask her first. Fat-phobia is everywhere. There is no escaping it. Some cultures, some segments of culture, some individuals are very receptive to generous bodies, but, even then, those forces are interacting. We are all capable of expressing fat-phobia and we harbour it in our thoughts about ourselves, about pleasure, and bodies...about food, worthiness, race, and desire. It does not fully dictate desire, but it often shapes how we experience and express it... and how we share about it in the presence of others. [Note: I will be referring to men in the conversation when it comes to talking about clients, even though we know there are female clients out there, and women who love Big Beautiful Women] I can think of a non-industry related experience that really stayed me; one I think can help illuminate discussion in this context. When I was in my very early twenties, I was in a long-term relationship. I was with this man for a couple of years and things were great in every respect, including sexually. One time, we were fooling around in bed watching an adult movie together. There was a scene with a sexy, curvy blonde. She was about a size 16, and she was going to town with a couple of guys. I was like, "wow" what a turn on... she came across as being totally into it, and it the whole thing felt authentic and made me feel sexy and in the mood... like the woman on the screen did not have to be some disparate image from myself (I was about a size 14 at the time). What surprised me was when my boyfriend, who was totally turned on at first, got this embarrassed look on his face. He said something like "I can't believe she's in this movie"... I knew what he meant, and, as my insides clutched back in shame, I still challenged him. I said, "she and I are pretty much the same size. I don't understand. What's the issue?" And, he said with a perplexed look, "I guess, it's because she's in the movie. It's different. I dunno..." That was fat phobia in action. This man totally embraced my body... every inch. His previous partner was quite curvy as well and he had been crazy about her. It was this notion of 'watching'... of knowing others were watching, that rendered this woman's body, of desiring her body, as wrong, shameful...not good enough. I have dealt with some very complex dynamics in this industry, in terms of my body size and the politics shaping how it has been received. And, so when I talk about it, I am simply giving a sense of my experience, and not in any way inferring how others should interpret or respond to their own struggles with these matters... it's also not about wanting to shame hobbyists, but rather, asking for greater sensitivity and self-honesty on the matter. When I reentered the industry a little over two years ago, I was about a size 14/16. I have since lost a considerable amount of weight (a little over 50 pounds) and am now about a size 7. I have never had any trouble whatsoever attracting clients. In fact, my body size has made no difference in the income I generate. When I first began marketing myself as an independent, I had to make decisions about how to describe myself... to convey an image. I knew very well that I would be considered by many to be a BBW, but it was not and is not a term I ever want to have applied to me. I chose instead to use descriptors like "plush, sumptuous, juicy, curvy". It felt meaningful to me. I did not want to make it easier for people to catalogue me by my body type, and, instead I wanted to attract a clientele based on what I saw/see as a more holistic image of who I am and what I offer/ed... as inviting, as desirable, as playful and delicious and wonderful to touch and hold and relate to. It is about self-definition. I find my work to be very meaningful, and I care about respect, giving and receiving, in all of my interactions with clients. I so often experience tenderness, excitement, joy and laughter with the men I see. However, there is still some violation that occurs. Hatred has no fee...needs no fee, and yet there are those that feel entitled to transfer their own sense of personal inadequacy on companions... to act as though they have a right to deconstruct and scrutinize us bit by bit, part by part, just because they are paying for our time, or even just because we have ads posted. I have been subject to comments like "you'd look even better if you lost some weight" (the nastiness is obvious here), or, just as bad, "don't worry, I like bigger women". I'm thinking to myself, I wasn't worried buddy, but thanks anyway (while cringing on the inside). It's telling, how clients who behave like this will shell out copious amounts of money to be with really curvy women, and yet feel a need to cheapen the experience with such shitty commentary. One time I had an inquiry from a guy who said "hey, you're a nice looking BBW". When I said, "I don't consider myself a BBW", he took on a patronizing tone, and in a laughing kind of voice he was like, "awww, don't be like that. C'mon, you're a baby BBW". This guy got off on my discomfort and making me inferior by deploying these terms. These are the conditions under which he wanted to enjoy my company. I have had many regular clients who have continued to see me over the course of two years and who consistently appreciate my beauty, even as it has changed shape, taken on different features over time. It's about an overall experience... about shared chemistry... about the way I package and present myself, my personality, my kisses, the way I dress to flatter my figure. These are the kind of dynamics I want to share in with clients. I do my best to encourage that, to invite it in my direction, and with great success, but those forces are never fully in ones control... and there are the hurtful moments... Since having lost weight, I've gotten reactions that have ranged from silent surprise, to low key "I see, you've lost some weight", to "Anna, you look amazing, as always", or "wow, you look soooo much better". I have clients do things like size me up at the door and say stuff like "looking good, Anna; losing more weight, I see" (like they are grading a side of meat), or even 'better', giving a little pat to my sides and commenting "keeping the weight off, eh?". It would be all to easy to say, yeah, I don't put up with it, but it's not that simple. I do take moments to challenge fat phobia when I feel I have the opportunity. I have refused to see men who have come across as fat-phobes, but, in many instances, fat-phobia expresses itself in the context of already established and otherwise positive client relationships. I understand that it's a big physical change and that it will get noticed, but it's not too much to ask for kindness and sensitivity. If you want to get alone with me (and, believe me, men do want that....over, and over , and over), to share space and pleasurable moments together, be the best version of yourself; receive me as I am, not as a deficit scale that has been resolved. I am not your fat apologist. I have had the great pleasure of getting to know hobbyists here on Lyla, as well as gentlemen who have become clients who totally embrace curvy women... who appreciate a range of body sizes.... who sensualize and are tantalized over nice, big thigh jiggles and rawkin' big bums... bodacious women with sexy smiles, eyes that invite, and figures to flaunt. Rawr! Right on! I am so happy when I see these gents (and some of the ladies too) making an effort to engender respect and appreciation for the curvier ladies on this board. There are companions who feel the outside pressure to describe themselves as BBWs when they are as small as a size 9 . There are some who are aware they have a generous figure who refuse to do so (like I have), while others rock the term in a way that pretty much says: I'm fucking hot; come get some of this goodness. We all experience and respond to these matters in a different way. I think it's important to check ones assumptions... to reflect on what ideas we are buying into... to reconsider how we talk about other peoples bodies (how we imagine our own), including in reviews and recommendations. I also think it's important to respect a given companion's sense of self-definition, and to check in about that before throwing around terminology a companion may find hurtful, or at least not in line with how she markets herself. Whatever the day, however tough it gets, my truth is that I love her ALWAYS :-D 15 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicolette Vaughn 294340 Report post Posted October 3, 2015 Anna, I understand where you're coming from. It is tough to balance what we do and then deal with this sorts of comments. To be quite honest, I have been where you are and your comments echoed my thoughts years ago. Now I just don't care anymore. I am who I am and I will NEVER apologize for that. Much like what celebrities deal with, I don't read what people write about me. I know who I am, I know I don't have to be an escorting personna and that I can be myself. I also know what type of service I offer and I attract people I know will enjoy my company. I enjoy my business and my repeat clientele speaks for itself. Forget the haters. They no longer exist in my world. 7 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ice4fun 78407 Report post Posted October 3, 2015 What a great thread... Thank You for starting it. We unfortunately live in a society that places hugely unrealistic expectations on females in regards to their appearance... the fashion and advertising Industry with rare exceptions has generated the idea of an ideal woman who really can only exist through massive photoshopping of images of already amazingly beautiful women so I guess it is not a stretch to see men and women accept these images that they are bombarded with as the ideal and to place negative views and comments on images that move away from the fashion and advertising fantasy image...unfortunately I think for this to change we... men and women... need to do exactly what this thread is doing stand up for the reality that people come in all shapes and sizes and are all beautiful and desirable. As a child I was told that beauty is in th eye of the beholder which I understood at the time to mean what one person sees as beautiful might be different then other... well when we are young I think we get that correct until we start to get conditioned by t media about what is "ideal" it's time for us to all find the non discriminating child in us and to demand better from society. As I read the OP's initial post I started to think about my own usage of terminology when posting reviews or posts on threads when referring to ladies and I realized how right she is... I am not saying that I have deliberately used hurtful terms but just that I can see how perhaps I hav not thought very deeply about how my wording would be heard by others or the specific lady in question. It's good to be reminded Thank You While the original poster is correct that I venue like th it is usually men clients using these descriptors I have to say that this issue is not limited to just man as I often see ladies who post very negative comments about the appearance of other ladies... not so much on LYLA due to the rules but check out twitter any day. I guess the nature of this industry will in fact often encourage discussions about people's appearance but in my personal experience in this industry I think it has opened my eyes to the beauty of women who years ago I would never women considered beautiful... this of course my be as much a factor of my maturity as a person but I do think meeting so many amazing women all different has opened my eyes to the beauty and sexiness you can find in everyone. As a result of this thread I hope i am even more conscious of the word I use in the future... thanks Just My Opinion 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
