Contoversy. Should PM rethink refugee promise?

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

I can't go anywhere hardly without hearing people voice opinions on whether we should allow refugees from Syria, etc. into Canada. My own personal feelings are that we should welcome them. I know the concerns but do we allow a few to harden our heart to all?

 

I'd like to hear what the people on here think. I know it's a controversial topic but I think debate, even uncomfortable debate, can be worthwhile when forming opinions as long as our minds are open.

 

Let's keep it civil and speak your mind. What should we do?

[mrrnice2 157005]

I can't go anywhere hardly without hearing people voice opinions on whether we should allow refugees from Syria, etc. into Canada. My own personal feelings are that we should welcome them. I know the concerns but do we allow a few to harden our heart to all?

 

I'd like to hear what the people on here think. I know it's a controversial topic but I think debate, even uncomfortable debate, can be worthwhile when forming opinions as long as our minds are open.

 

Let's keep it civil and speak your mind. What should we do?

 

As with many things I have such mixed feelings over the issue. Normally I am an anti-immigration person, the reason being that we have our own Canadian issues that funding can deal with - unemployed Canadians, poverty, aboriginal discrimination and the list goes on.

 

My feelings at the moment on the Syrian refugees goes counter to that and no doubt for my own unique reasons. It comes down to terrorism.

 

I am not prepared to let the terrorists have their way. If and when we change our policy due to fears that that ISIS has generated then they have won. So let's take these refugees and let's help them incorporate into a Canada that is welcoming and that will allow them to make their way and contribute to our country.

 

I also am ready to give our new government a chance to demonstrate their smarts. Until they prove otherwise I shall trust that with time they will do checks on our new future Canadians. They no doubt are moving quickly in order to meet a campaign promise so if the new people end up on military bases until the proper process for settling them is carried out and followed through on then so be it.

[blacklabdog 3049]

I never thought original 25K number by Dec 31 was feasible (eg here in Ottawa there is a huge shortage of affordable housing and this would just make it worse)

To me it was a number meant to get votes not based on logistics.

Paris doesn't really change my opinion - a number that can be accommodated in the 5-10K range w/o affecting refugee applications from elsewhere is OK. Goes without saying even before, that applicants have to be carefully screened with priority to those with family here, single mothers and NO single males.

[scribbles 6031]

I am disappointed by all of the anti-immigration and anti-refugee talk. Put it this way: if someone from Paris wanted to immigrate to Canada, claiming they felt unsafe in France, would we let them? We wouldn't be having this discussion, it would just happen. The only reason the Syrian refugees are looked at differently is because they are Muslim. It's racism, and that's not a claim I throw around lightly or often. I'm not saying everyone is a bigot, I'm just saying that when we're afraid of something we let our emotional lizard brain run with it's categorization and labelling, and in this case we are (admit it) looking at every Muslim as a potential terrorist until proven otherwise.

It's disheartening. And, inevitable. But, we can choose to let our rational minds rule the day and override those emotional leanings. If we don't, we've let terrorism push the humanity out of our hearts that much more, and become more like them.

[mrgreen760 37785]

No doubt the promise was an election ploy that was cynically successful. Having said that, personally I'm for immigration and the more the better. We have the space and by and large new Canadians work hard and add to the economy and are thankful for the opportunities we so take for granted. Don't restrict it just to Syrian's though open the door to all who want to come here, not have to come here but want to come here.

 

Peace

MG

[MightyPen 67414]

Don't restrict it just to Syrian's though open the door to all who want to come here, not have to come here but want to come here.

We already do that with our regular immigration process. The extra 25,000 allotment for the Syrian refugees is a special case above and beyond that, in response to a specific crisis.

 

I agree we should continue as planned. These are 25,000 people in desperate circumstances that most of us can't even imagine, being given an opportunity to resettle here and resume their peaceful, productive lives.

 

Sure, we could just blindly throw up a solid wall and refuse to help anyone at all, because we're in a panic and terrified that some plotters might slip into the country among the refugees. But even doing that doesn't guarantee that those same plotters won't just enter the country by other means anyway. And look at the cowards we'd have become in the process.

[mrgreen760 37785]

"Sure, we could just blindly throw up a solid wall and refuse to help anyone at all, because we're in a panic and terrified that some plotters might slip into the country among the refugees. But even doing that doesn't guarantee that those same plotters won't just enter the country by other means anyway. And look at the cowards we'd have become in the process"

 

It would be naive to think that they aren't already here in some shape and form and it's just a matter of when and where they'll strike not if.

 

Peace

MG

[Exotic Touch Danielle 31728]

I have no problem with helping those in need especially when in crisis but at the same time WE (Canada) has already recieved threats from ISIS and I really think we need to think of our safety right now

The world is a very scarey place to live in right now and with everything going on I am afraid for my children my family and friends and the world

What type of screening process would honestly be able to predict that one of those young men coming into Canada isn't with ISIS?

This is reality people and we as a whole need to open ours eyes to what is going on

I am really conflicted with this because I do feel for those innocent families who need safety and a way out as well...

[Hector17 9215]

I listened to a top U.S. Terror expert say it will take 18-24 months to properly vet a Syrian refugee to assure safety.

It is not possible that Canada can process 25,000 in 44 days. This an extremely dangerous proposition.

[MightyPen 67414]

It would be naive to think that they aren't already here in some shape and form and it's just a matter of when and where they'll strike not if.

I agree with this. It's yet another reason why trying to put up a virtual wall now offers only an illusion of security, purchased at the expense of the 25,000 desperate human beings we thereby leave stranded.

 

We have a working intelligence agency and police network. They're further helped by the cooperation of peaceful and diligent communities who already raise flags about potentially violent radicals in their midst.

 

Let our authorities do their jobs. Meanwhile we can do Canada's traditions proud by taking care of tens of thousands of desperate people who need our help right now.

[Grass_Hopper 18263]

I'm not a humanitarian at all. I actually think we shouldn't even mind that war. This is not OUR fight.

 

BUT, thinking of it, we have natural ressources, industries, or straight up work that needs to be done in our northern regions, and no Canadian wants to do the dirty job. We also have plenty of space, and I think we have the military ressources to back it up.

 

PM says he wants to use military bases to welcome them. Could it be like a refugee camp? Go according to OUR rules, but here's the chance to build a small community while war is going on.

 

But as soon as war is over and done, they have to go back home.

 

Again, in the first place, I don't think Canada should be involve in any manner with war. This is definetly not our battle.

 

Additional Comments:

I am disappointed by all of the anti-immigration and anti-refugee talk. Put it this way: if someone from Paris wanted to immigrate to Canada, claiming they felt unsafe in France, would we let them? We wouldn't be having this discussion, it would just happen. The only reason the Syrian refugees are looked at differently is because they are Muslim. It's racism, and that's not a claim I throw around lightly or often. I'm not saying everyone is a bigot, I'm just saying that when we're afraid of something we let our emotional lizard brain run with it's categorization and labelling, and in this case we are (admit it) looking at every Muslim as a potential terrorist until proven otherwise.

It's disheartening. And, inevitable. But, we can choose to let our rational minds rule the day and override those emotional leanings. If we don't, we've let terrorism push the humanity out of our hearts that much more, and become more like them.

 

WoW! The racism card again!.. I am racist. Not affraid to say. I'm racist againts my own people, so... We all are, in a way.

 

Religion has nothing to do with origin (the word race is used to qualify a certain kind of animal, btw)

 

Origin has nothing to do with warfare.

 

Canada is a country of PEACE. We lost the habit of minding our own buisness (thanks to Harper), but still, we do not get involve in war, except peace and special missions.

 

That whole part of the world has always been, still, and will always be WAR. They are Warriors. We shouldn't be tuck repairing the broken pieces again...

 

That's just a plan to get in trouble...

[Phaedrus 209521]

One small point that seems to have become lost in the fear over the last few days: the people who pulled that shit in Paris on Friday are the same people that the Syrian refugees are trying to get away from.

[Hector17 9215]

Unfortunately too many people really have no, or little knowledge, of the Muslim religion,its' origin, the Prophet Mohammed, and the 1400 year caliphate that saw 270,000,000 Christians and Jews slaughtered. It ended in 1924, so before our time. It only rose again with the discovery of oil by the USA, who then let the countries nationalize it. When Ayatollah Khomeini was introduced to put a spiritual front on a political movement (radical Islam) it started up again in 1979, and here we are today. People should at least, be informed, if not afraid. An excellent resource is "Brigitte Gabriel" and you can see her interviews and various speeches on YOUTUBE

[Guest st*****ens**ors]

There are no "those people". There are only people trapped in danger, desperate to keep their families from harm. No one leaves their home and possessions and familiar environment behind for something entirely unknown unless the situation they are fleeing is worse than the loss of everything and facing an entirely uncertain future.

 

Statistically speaking, and we've been at this business of giving sanctuary to refugees for some time now (anyone recall operation parachute?) refugees are significantly LESS likely than a member of the domestic population to engage in criminal activity, much less terrorism.

 

More than 200 000 Syrians have died in the conflict over the last 4 years. 4 million have fled in order to survive. Call it 2/3 of PEIslanders dead, and the rest, with every resident of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland, and Quebec City rendered homeless.

 

We should be moved to compassion by this, and to action. We have the space, the resources, the opportunities for settlement and employment, and the capacity for security screening. It only remains to be seen whether we have the collective will.

 

Clearly I have a strong opinion on this. At least the thread started with a disclaimer!

[Exotic Touch Danielle 31728]

Seems we all.have our own opinion and feelings on this situation and we are all entitled to that

I just hope whatever happens will not bring more hardship to anyone

This world is cold and it seems to be getting even colder as time goes on

Time will tell!

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

Seems we all.have our own opinion and feelings on this situation and we are all entitled to that

I just hope whatever happens will not bring more hardship to anyone

This world is cold and it seems to be getting even colder as time goes on

Time will tell!

 

Good point, Danielle. The world can be cold but it helps me to remember that "The world is what you make it". From that perspective one can decide whether one wants the world to be a better place, or a darker place. It also helps to remember the old adage that nothing worthwhile is easy. Reward follows risk.

 

Thanks for the contributions!

[waterat 20911]

To address the thread title: No.

[Guest *ass**x]

Justin should go ahead as planned. We can absorb those people. It may be that a baddie sneaks in that way but - realistically - it would be a whole lot easier for ISIS to put some baddies on a plane in Jordan (or Belgium) with faked up passports and send them to Montreal airport (on a business trip) not through the immigration process where the suspicion level is high.

 

That said, this is a goofy way to manage the globe - fighting ISIS (sort of with 4 out of date planes and no boots on the ground), helping with refugees (sort of) and accepting conflict migrants (sort of - grudgingly) The main priority IMHO should be helping those displaced by the conflicts raging through the region and helping (in a serious monetary and logistical way) the frontline countries deal with refugees and work to keep open the chance that they can go back to their own countries - which is probably what most of them want anyway.

 

I think we have to accept the fact that Canada can play no significant role in setting the world on the right path from a military stand-point but we can help in a positive way to stop the worst from happening to war refugees. I am increasingly for a humanitarian isolationism where we do not engage in these un-winnable wars but we do our best to support those harmed in the conflict. We have to stop following the lead of the US in all this stuff too - they have shown themselves to be powerful but incompetent (a deadly combination indeed).

[Mikeyboy 27133]

I've developed a new litmus test for analyzing my opinions on world affairs. It goes something like this:

 

Step 1: Form opinion.

Step 2: Ask myself the question "Would Donald Trump agree with me?"

Step 3: Analysis:

If no, carry on. Opinion may be valid. Continue to analyze new data and in the event of a change in opinion, restart process.

If yes, I am likely being a small minded racist. Reform opinion and proceed.

 

Feel free to use this with your own opinions if you find it helpful. ;)

[Exotic Touch Danielle 31728]

See I have read alot of different opinions from Canadians and when those who don't agree to bring in 25,000 refugees are labeled as ignorant and racist well I don't agree with that...I think it's ignorant when someone isn't entitled to their own opinion

I am not sure how I feel about it as I stated earlier I am very conflicted and it has nothing to do with skin color or religion it's has everything to to do with what is going on and our safety

[Mikeyboy 27133]

These are families with children who need our help, fleeing the very people we are all afraid of. The Canada I grew up with would not turn their back on them out of fear. I know the world has changed, but we have to keep our humanity. Don't let the terrorists win. Don't let fear change who we are. How can we stand up in solidarity against their victims in France, yet turn our backs on their victims in Syria? I believe that Canadians deep down are good people who will stand up for the people who need us most. I really hope I am not wrong for all of our sakes.

[Hector17 9215]

These are families with children who need our help, fleeing the very people we are all afraid of. The Canada I grew up with would not turn their back on them out of fear. I know the world has changed, but we have to keep our humanity. Don't let the terrorists win. Don't let fear change who we are. How can we stand up in solidarity against their victims in France, yet turn our backs on their victims in Syria? I believe that Canadians deep down are good people who will stand up for the people who need us most. I really hope I am not wrong for all of our sakes.

 

A good point was made earlier in this thread that there is a lot of poverty right here...homelessness, hunger etc. Helping them should be the priority.

 

Helping the Syrians through Intn'l aid is a good option.

As for admitting them to this country...our safety is primary importance. I'm sure I'm not up for taking any chances on that...for all our sakes.

[Mikeyboy 27133]

A good point was made earlier in this thread that there is a lot of poverty right here...homelessness, hunger etc. Helping them should be the priority.

 

Helping the Syrians through Intn'l aid is a good option.

As for admitting them to this country...our safety is primary importance. I'm sure I'm not up for taking any chances on that...for all our sakes.

 

International aid only helps when they have a place to exist. Sending them back to Syria is a death sentence. They need us. Now. I don't understand how opening or homes to families with children who are in danger of dying is putting us at risk, unless you believe that all Muslims, or all Syrians must be terrorists. Again the "racist card" but I can't see it any other way. Real people, real families, real children need or help. Now.

[Guest st*****ens**ors]

International aid only helps when they have a place to exist. Sending them back to Syria is a death sentence. They need us. Now. I don't understand how opening or homes to families with children who are in danger of dying is putting us at risk, unless you believe that all Muslims, or all Syrians must be terrorists. Again the "racist card" but I can't see it any other way. Real people, real families, real children need or help. Now.

 

Quoted for emphasis

[Brad 49548]

A good point was made earlier in this thread that there is a lot of poverty right here...homelessness, hunger etc. Helping them should be the priority.

 

Helping the Syrians through Intn'l aid is a good option.

As for admitting them to this country...our safety is primary importance. I'm sure I'm not up for taking any chances on that...for all our sakes.

 

If we wait until there is no suffering in Canada and we're all 100% happy then we'd never help anyone else. It's not an either/or option, in any event. It's similar to people saying we shouldn't fund science or the arts because that money could be spent on something else.

 

Besides, humanity and morality aside, it's in our own interests to help the rest of the world and those at need. We don't live in isolation and chaos and suffering elsewhere will still affect us.

 

Throughout our history people have been resistant to immigrants or those in need coming here for one concern or another, concerns that almost always turned out to be invalid. At one point we despised the Irish coming over. At another point we argued against taking in fleeing Jews. I don't want the next generation to look back at us and shake their heads at how we could callously ignore people in such desperate situations.

 

The word terrorist has "terror" in it for a reason. They win by making you too scared to act humanely and rationally. I know I couldn't look any of these refugees in the eye--suffering in very real ways I can't even imagine--and turn them away because of some hypothetical fear that I'd be risking my own comfort and safety. There will always be dangers and risks--hell, I've a better chance of being shot by some young white man shooting up a school or a theater than a bombing!--we can't let that rule our humanity.