Deception: the practice of deceiving.

[Loralee Reach 245]

I want to share this with all the members of Cerb. Albeit, I have discussed this topic in private with some elite and new members (male and female), I would like to know how often this happens and what do you think.

Obviously, more often than I would've imagined.

Today I had a phone conversation with an SP in TO, regarding the "envelopes" with the donations (not always in an envelope, must confess). She got, Bonny and Clyde style, an envelope closed and full of newspapers clipps the size of dollar bills....

Not too long ago, another SP received Canadian Tire money....

Some others got a "roll" of bills with an elastic band, and the outside bill was a 50 while the inside ones were much smaller denominations.

A more recent one, someone somewhat trusted and familiar with the SP left a bunch of folded 20 dollar bills who accounted to much less than the donation expected.

Further than this, the occasional stranger who forgets the money at home....and the one that upon arrival confesses not to have enough....

Anyway, I wonder if this could happen in any other business?

Deception, the practice of deceiving, is worst than the occasional bargain hunter (and we SP's do not bargain with the clients, do we? imagine this scenarios if we were on the same frame of mind:

 

"I'll set a donation amount after measuring you...too large? discount....

too small? discount...

young and inexperienced? increase...

older and sensual? discount.....

last minute appointment? increase

appointment set in advance? discount

well groomed and fresh breathed? discount

having to be asked to "refresh yourself"? increase

trouble in the board by being unappreciative of us? increase

professional? increase

retired? discount

somehow a difficult erection issue? increase

does not leave on time? increase

arrives too early? increase

duo?

(do not expect half donation -I was told this one by another SP -because the job is done in half...by each lady????pardon me??? mercy, mercy....a job done in half? do you know how a duo performs....is it an hour? well, be glad the hour is at the same donation than if it was not a duo, but in a duo both ladies expect the same amount by two.....and they talk before and after the encounter....ay ay ay....deception

Then...

what do you think about this topic?

Cordially,

LoraLee:?

[Cato 160314]

Yea, not good, LoraLee. It's more than deception, it's fraud.

I must admit that on a couple of occasions, with a new sp, she counted out the money in front of me before we began the session. I found that a bit embarrassing to sit through, though entirely understandable from her point of view.

I prefer it when the money is counted more discreetly.

[tiimde71 176]

This does not surprise me at all. I am a business analyst and you would be shocked at how often this kind of manipulation happens. It is something many businesses struggle with.

 

You ladies do cash upfront I give advice and invoice on 30 day terms. I have had clients contract me have me solve their problems and said well all we really did us talk so we will only pay half. Thank god for collections :). The problem is this is not open to you but what a letter for someones wife to find lol.

 

As far as discounts go I can only see one reason. If someone is a regular and you enjoy their company you might be able to increase your share of their total business with a slight discount. They will not book a slot and leave you hanging and you know they are safe. In all business there is less risk in getting more business from existing clients than getting new ones.

[Loralee Reach 245]

Most of us never even touch the money. I personally open a little drawer in my reception hall and tell them to set it inside, envelope or not.

I never ever will humiliate someone by counting....it is demeaning on the whole session. I am sure you felt embarrassed, distrusted and uncomfortable.

But Cato you are a real gem, you are not the problem....

I remember a saying that I cannot translate really, but is about feeling embarrased for the other person...get it?

How can someone leave anything else than what was agreed upon? how can someone engage in such an intimate encounter, receive the best we can give and more most of the time, and leave with a kiss knowing the truth behind the door?

It really surpasses me Cato...thanks for being U

LoraLee

 

Additional Comments:

Tim YOU are HIRED!!!!!

Come home darling!!!!!

Seriously...you have a point, but

I am sure every lady does something different for their regular clients. Myself, I give them lots of extra time and discounts...I have never lost my clients, you have to give to receive not to take away...now Tim, come home!

xoxoxo

loralee

[BarrhavenWoody 10776]

It's hard to believe that people can be that evil.

 

On the other hand, I'm surprised that SP's are as trusting as they are. If it was my first time with someone, I wouldn't be offended if she counted the money. Actually, I always assumed that they usually did it discretely while I was in the other room.

[Andee 220524]

I discretely take the money, turn away slightly while I tell them to get relaxed, count it quickly and put it away. I have only been duped twice in 15 years.

 

Once I accepted a cheque that bounced, but I harassed him until he paid me a little every week until it was paid off. Another time a regular client who admitted later to having a gambling problem. switched 2 fifties for Canadian Tire money when I had left the money out and he was getting dressed. He later replaced it when I reminded him his home number was on my phone and I wouldn't want to call there and have his wife answer.

 

Another time I got a counterfeit $20, but the client had gone to the bank machine, and he insisted it was in the stack he pulled out!

 

I always count it, look at it and put it away, out of sight and never take cheques. I don't believe I humiliate anyone by doing this. I knew an SP who holds each bill up to a counterfeit detector light. Now that must have be embarrassing.

[Loralee Reach 245]

Dear Angela, we are all different,.If that is your level of comfort, good for you. It is not for me but I respect yours.

The issue is not changed by the fact of counting the money. You may count and it is short and you tell them to leave or place what is missing, right?

Well, I prefer to offer my trust and if I am betrayed, I will never see that person again, I will do my best for all of you to know about him and discredit his person, but I can not hurt a "wife" because of a few dollars...no way.

We are all different and you are looking so pretty in the new pic!!!!

All the best tonight honey!!

LoraLee:D

[mod 135639]

This happens one way or another in ALL business's and this is a business with the FANTASY of it not being as such. It is very acceptable to discretely count the money before you offer services. NO GENTLEMAN would have any issue with this.

 

Even on here sometimes people tell me they are sending a payment for a banner and ask if I can keep it up... and I do... But we have had a few times where it never arrives... I eventually pull the banner after 30 days and I will suspend an account with a balance of 30 days owing on a banner and not reactivate the account till the invoice is paid. We have also suspended cerb accounts for unpaid EC invoices.

 

On EC we still offer everyone a 7 day advance (It use to be 30 days, then 14 days, then 10 days and now the MAX is 7 days as people would just ask for an advance of time and never pay the bill so over time it got stricter and stricter) ... With EC almost always the advertiser comes back (months or even years later but they do come back).

 

On EC we get people too who purposely try to RIP us off. We had one lady who bounced a cheque (Ads go offline as soon as this happens and personal cheques are no longer accepted and a 30.00nsf fee is applied) so she pleads with us to have the ad turned back on and says she will send a tracking number. We agree that if she sends the tracking number we will put her ad back online so she sends us a tracking number for FedEX and we advance the ad 3 more days.

 

The fedEX arrives and it's EMPTY so we call her again.... she says she forgot to put the money order in the envelope and will resend it again by mail as FedEX was too expensive so we pull the ad (Enough of that foolishness)... the payment never came in the mail.

 

This is only ONE example of MANY over the years.... but one of the more elaborate ones.

 

When I ran the nightclubs and the gentleman's clubs years ago we had tabs at one place (That was a nightmare)... it happens one way or another in every business. Basically if you don't require cash upfront and count it upfront... your just setting yourself up to be ripped off.

 

Tell the guy that you will be right back and take the envelope to another room (Like the washroom) and count it in private so it's not so obvious what you are doing. If he is trying to rip you off he is going to be very conscious of you taking the envelope to the other room and probably BOLT as soon as head into the other room. Be sure to have a cell phone in that other room with you for security... anyone who would try to rip someone off like this is probably a violent person by nature.

 

We get payments that are short changed weekly... sometimes 2.00 and sometimes 1/2 the amount or more. Sometimes it is by accident... other times it's obviously not.

 

We use to be very lenient with these payments but it just happens so regularly that

[Guest ***nsut***jr]

This is pretty sad I must say.

A guy should be happy to properly compensate the lady with the agreed rate and probably a gift of some sort.

If I choose to see someone there is a certain respect and admiration of their human qualities that have influenced that decision.

Why would anyone cheapen that?

Beyond my reasoning.

 

J

[antlerman 17064]

I have had it counted in front of me......no big problem.

I mean as much as this is a personal encouter it is still business....

so I always set it up that I come in and place the envelope in plain view of the lady....then we chat and I either make sure to visit the washroom or go for a shower to give her time to relocate the envelope and count it, sometimes they excuse themselves to get a drink and I make sure I give it to them so they can get drinks and count it there....

 

but that is just me.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

Though it does not happened with repeat SPs, but it does happen with some new SPs that the lady brings the bills out of the envelope and counts them. I don't have any issue with this, however, honestly I never felt very good as I asked myself if she sees something in me that she suspects there is even a slight chance that I may be a cheat or a fraud and all that for only a couple of hundred dollars!!!.

 

Reading this thread though I think I am beginning to understand as the lady may have been cheated in the past so she prefers not to trust anyone anymore. It is very unfortunate that anything like this should happen giving a bad name to all hobbyists not to mention that it is a fraud and a theft of the worse kind to deprive a lady of her hard earned money who is trying to make a living in this difficult economic times lol.

 

Recently I have learned to excuse myself to the kitchen to get a bottle of wine and while pretending to open it, will give her a minute or two to count whatever she wants to count.

[Andee 220524]

Dear Angela, we are all different,.If that is your level of comfort, good for you. It is not for me but I respect yours.

The issue is not changed by the fact of counting the money. You may count and it is short and you tell them to leave or place what is missing, right?

Well, I prefer to offer my trust and if I am betrayed, I will never see that person again, I will do my best for all of you to know about him and discredit his person, but I can not hurt a "wife" because of a few dollars...no way.

We are all different and you are looking so pretty in the new pic!!!!

All the best tonight honey!!

LoraLee:D

 

They don't even notice me counting it and I cannot remember the last time anyone shorted me - it's been years. If they did, I would immediately remind them nicely.

 

The last time I didn't count the money, the guy had told me half an hour and paid me for an hour. Then I had to chase him down to tell me he paid me too much, but he said it was okay. I found that to be more embarassing, because then I doubted myself that maybe I made a mistake and shorted him on the time. So I would rather be sure up front, so I always count the money. Like the MOD suggested, just excuse yourself for a few seconds. Plus, I don't make it obvious where I stash it either. Because you just never know.

 

As for the guy with the wife, I would not have called his house. I only told him that because I was angry. He was a regular and did this to me, and then avoided my calls to his cell. Finally when he did get back to me, he admitted he had a gambling problem and would reimburse me on pay day, which he did. He knew I was kinder than some girls would have been.

 

I believe in the law of attraction. I don't think about being ripped off or shorted, even though I know it can happen, I tend to attract decent clients who don't pull that shit on me. Maybe it does pay to be assertive or mature. I don't know what it is, but I'm certainly not complaining.

[Katherine of Halifax 113932]

I totally agreee with Angela and the law of attraction.

 

It has never entered my mind that someone would short me so I believe that is why it never has.

 

It is very upsetting to me to even think of such a thing, shame on any man that would do this. As the MOD said though, this is buisness so it will happen.

This is an eye opener for me and not a nice one. :-(

[Guest s******ecan****]

I would never object to having the donation counted in front of me. I usually go to the washroom to shower or wash my hands and rinse with mouthwash, I expect the ladies would take this opportunity to count the funds.

[roamingguy 300292]

On the hobbiest's part, shortchanging is just sleezy and despicable. I always tell the lady upfront that I'm not offended if she counts the money...I'd rather us both leave happy than either one of us pissed off

RG

[bucky501 923]

We all know it`s a business...first and foremost...-so what`s the big deal?

 

After a few visits it is a `non-event`

 

Additional Comments:

We all know it`s a business...first and foremost...-so what`s the big deal?

 

After a few visits it is a `non-event`

[Nicolette Vaughn 294340]

A few months I had a new client come to visit me. I told him that we should take care of business before we get started and he said " No, we'll do it after." I politely said that it has to be taken care of beforeahnd or I wouldn't be going ahead with the appt. He reluctantly agreed, put the money on the table and I think once he realized I wasn't out to rip him off, he was okay. When he came back to see me a second time, he immediately put the money on the table.

 

Get the money upfront ladies. We are providing a service and even though it is sometimes veiled in fantasy, it is still a business and funds need to be dealt with. It's not that we're greedy but if you were to put the shoe on the other foot, would you go to work for x amount of time knowing there was a chance your employer was going to shortchange you or not pay you at all? No way. So the same applies to our business even though the service is much more intimate than going to a driv-thru and getting a french fry. Although these days that is debatable but I digress....

 

Personally I don't care if it's a mood wrecker with people I don't know. With regulars, the money is on the table in full view before the session begins and with others they leave it after because here is a level of trust that has been achieved but I still count it before they leave. I have good regulars and none of them have stiffed me or they would have heard about it.

[Guest C*****tte]

I would also add that having a routine for money and safety regardless of how well you know a client is good so that you do these things automatically and then if something bad happens such as fraud or violence you are prepared.

[Megan'sTouch 23875]

I've been in this industry for 3 years, and only in the last 3 months did I start insisting on payment upfront. I have NEVER been ripped off *knock on wood*.

[Reddog01 30280]

He later replaced it when I reminded him his home number was on my phone and I wouldn't want to call there and have his wife answer.

 

I am still new at this hobby and can count the number of SPs I have met on my two hands. I use an envelope and always placed the required funds inside, unsealed so the amount can be verified easily. I usually do “outcalls” so leave the envelope on a commode or coffee table in plain sight. This is in compliance with SP requests and accepted decorum that goes with the business.

 

I never had a SP count the money in front of me except once, when I extended a session to three hours and I was required to top up the amount. Fair game. In fact, I would expect the SP to check the envelope sometime during the visit, within or outside my eyesight.

 

Loralee: Sorry to here of your negative experiences.

 

Angela of Ottawa: Yikes: Not that I would ever try and short change an SP, your suggested approach or threat, is why I never give out a “traceable phone number”. IF an SP is vindictive for what ever reason, clients must be prepared to protect themselves until a level of trust is reached. I just saw your second post - From your CERB personality, I didn't really think you would do it. Too bad it came to a threat.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

It is different with dancers though Megan (I think that 2 years out of that 3 years you were a dancer, no?). Dancers never ask upfront. I was going to strip bars for a decade. Met thousands of dancers and not even once was I asked at a strip bar to pay upfront to the best of my memory. It would be very unusual. For escort ladies and maseusses it is of course different. I have seen over 100 escorts and I always put the unsealed envelope right on the tables where they can see upon arrival, with their name and amount of cash written on the back of envelop.

[fortunateone 156618]

I always count it, look at it and put it away, out of sight and never take cheques. I don't believe I humiliate anyone by doing this. I.

 

 

I completely agree. I find it ridiculous (really mean no offense to the OP, but I mean this in very general terms because I do see it mentioned on occasion and can only chuckle about it) to pretend that this is not what it is.

 

It is simple and elegant, and a wondrous thing, but it is an exchange of $$ for services, and to try to dress it up in an envelope, or godforbid, don't let me touch the money or the envelope, set the hidden envelope down without mentioning it whatever whatever, it is just too precious for me. And you know what, I have in 10 years not once not ever not even been shortchanged, had the money switched (because I am not gullible enough to leave it anywhere in plain sight, as mentioned here, it is given to me, I take it away, (this is where if necessary I use the led light lol), it cannot be tampered with, it is checked to be the proper amount for the time and session desired.

 

What baffles me is if no one ever talks about what the heck is in that envelope, exactly what (and for how long) does everyone know what the heck is supposed to happen. To me, there are just so many downsides, and misunderstandings, it is just ripe for disaster, and to what purpose? To pretend the client is not paying for the sp's time? Why on earth do we need to pretend?

 

Anyway, I have never embarrassed anyone, and no one feels humiliated, by checking about what they are here for, giving them the amount, and they present me with the amount. On the rare case I receive an envelope, I can take it away with me, but of course I am going to open the damn thing and find out what the heck he expects me to do. If it is 100 or 200, obviously I need to know.

 

As you can clearly see, the envelope, the distaste for taking money directly, is one of my pet peeves. It is not illegal, so what exactly is the problem because if it is to pretend there is something else going on here, what happens is the deadbeats as described in the opening post USE this to take advantage of the sps. They count on this process, and the sooner sps stop doing it and start accepting this openly and with humour and professionalism, the sooner these guys are going to be stopped. It is, as mentioned fraud, and at the very least stealing.

[Loralee Reach 245]

WOW!!!!!

This is an incredible response and so diverse....

Let me explain first that I took the initiative to write it because I was told about these experiences from Toronto to Nova Scotia to Montreal and Quebec....the only one that happened to me was the "short change" and the gentleman in question excused himself today and is bringing the money...it surprised me of him but that was the last time he saw me and I do not care about him any longer, nor I intend to mention his name ever to anyone.

Regarding counting the money in the presence of the client, to me is cold as hell. Call me an idiot, I can not do it.

Of course we all know we are not in love with our clients...we may like some of them and adore others; we may feel more friendly with some and less with others, but this is not selling fries...this is more personal and to me, humbly put, it means discretion and trust. If we can not trust in each other when we are giving (both of the parties) our bodies and most pleasurable moments to each other, then what is real or unreal, what is fantasy or just a game it does not come to the table;

This is a game of fantasy and orgasms. Angela has her own style; Megan has another, Fortunateone is also different and it is great we are all different, but it does not alter the situation that everybody works for a previously arranged salary, be it hourly, contract or whatever.

The point goes further...

Mod was very explanatory and I was sorry to hear about all the shortcomings he goes through also.

I really believe in people, I trust them and give them always the advantage to prove themselves. Once they failed me they are gone from my life. Again, call me stupid.

Some say that when you get burnt with milk, the sight of a cow makes you cry...right?

well, I am in that spot right now.

May be we all should keep the fantasy alive, as when we go to Disneyland; all pay the ticket and all do a good job.

Megan said it once and we went to the parade in favor of sex workers. THIS IS A JOB.

Sometimes we like our colleagues, bosses or subordinates; sometime we dont, but we get paid anyway.We as much as the gentlemen do not deserve to be insulted in anyway. Not to pay for the banners is solved easily, the Mod cuts the account...end of story.

Not to pay for a service is a rip off...to deceive the payment is fraud and all these issues will end if sex workers were legalized.

I hope it comes someday in my own life, and those 30 days are extended forever after .... and the lawyer gets his point across the Supreme court....(small courts are not for this big one)

We do not deserve any of this, As the gentlemen do not deserve any harm, there are wonderful men at CERB including the Mod (hey..I said it Mod!!!)

we just have to separate the bad from the good, the deceiving, the frauds from the honest and trusted guys. I could name so many of you that are real pearls in the desert, but I can not do it due to discretion, you all know who you are because we are close in our hearts, we are good people!.

Just let's fight together to get the law changed, then, and only then, all the jerks will be automatically out, because we could go to the police, the courts, the Better Business Bureau and all that ... and no need to involve the wives, they do not need that and they did not do anything to us...it would be like making a child pay for the crimes of a delinquent parent! come on, lets make the guilty pay and not his entourage!

Hugs to all and thanks so much for supporting a free of hypocrisy sex law!

LoraLee

[Guest f***2f***]

I"m continually shocked at how many deadbeats are out there. My son is a contractor and a friend (former friend now) I recommended him to got im to do a lot of work and then refused to pay him saying she wasnt happy with his work. I told her that she should have mentioned it a lot earlier than when she had a big bill run up and he could have adjusted. At any rate it was just an excuse not to pay. She also bounced a check on him for $200 so this is a person with no ethics and no honour. I do not stay friends with people who do not honour their obligations and bills. Despicable behavior.

[Loralee Reach 245]

YES BONER...that is my point...you try them, they deceived you , you just get out of their aura....just let them vanish in their own juices...they are that...just fakes, frauds, garbage....

Smile..you are there..I am here...many more are reading this...ladies and gentlemen who are honest as you and me are....we do not sell friends for money, appearances or fame...we are honest.

Smile to your soul and say "thanks" for being who you are...

kissess

LoraLee

S