Trump the Bitch!

[lee101xxx44 519]

There are so many things wrong with Trump, but for people to suggest that Hillary Clinton is "not perfect" is a big understatement of the situation. Personally, I would use the word "criminal" to describe her, rather than "bitch". I don't ever recall a Presidential candidate being the subject of an FBI investigation, let alone this late in the game. She is every bit as corrupt as LBJ and she seems to be as paranoid as Nixon. What a candidate??!! . Some might say that the email server issue is small potatoes or that it's all a witch hunt, but regular people have been criminally prosecuted for less serious security breaches. For me, the whole thing reeks of "one law for the elites and another for the rest of us".Both Trump and Sanders caught on with people who feel that the elites are working against them. I'd classify myself as a "country-club" Republican, with a libertarian streak, so I'd have no problem voting for Gary Johnson and the Libertarian Party.

[piano8950 32577]

I don't ever recall a Presidential candidate being the subject of an FBI investigation, let alone this late in the game. She is every bit as corrupt as LBJ and she seems to be as paranoid as Nixon.

 

Some might say that the email server issue is small potatoes or that it's all a witch hunt, but regular people have been criminally prosecuted for less serious security breaches.

 

People (including presidents) have been let of for more serious stuff -

 

 

Bush

 

While Trump doesn't have a FBI investigation on him, he did have to go through, and going through 169 federal lawsuits against him. I didn't check, but I think that's a new record for a presidential campaign

 

Last but not least - Clinton (the dude)

[fortunateone 156618]

People (including presidents) have been let of for more serious stuff -

 

 

Bush

 

While Trump doesn't have a FBI investigation on him, he did have to go through, and going through 169 federal lawsuits against him. I didn't check, but I think that's a new record for a presidential campaign

 

Last but not least - Clinton (the dude)

 

 

Nixon (i don't have a link but i figure most will know what's up. )

 

There is a lot of corruption in US politics, it is pretty near impossible for anyone who came up thru election process (senate, congress, govenor, state reps, etc) to not have to compromise morals, ethics or laws at some point. To expect that they would be investigated or charged is probably a pipe dream, they all feed off each other, and protect each other, regardless of the issue. and in the past it was probably worse because the press protected govt officials as well, and the police were paid off to protect them, so the general public simply doesn't know about anything. Doesn't mean they didn't do anything, there are probably more honest ones now that information is so easily accessible compared to even Clinton era, and you see what happened to him.

[Guest Miss Jane TG]

If that isn't what you meant, then perhaps some clarification?

 

I have re-stated several times the purpose of this thread in a layperson language. Your interpretations, or misinterpretation of my position on the subject are your own business.

[MightyPen 67414]

If I could vote in the upcoming American election then yes, I would absolutely vote for Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump.

 

Both of the candidates have troubling personalities and backgrounds. But it seems to me that Hilary's issues fall within the usual set of generic politician's liabilities (phony, plastic, hypocritical, dishonest). Trump, on the other hand, is infused with a whole new level of crazy and doesn't belong anywhere near real power.

 

Someone I know described Trump as "that politician that Martin Sheen played in the Dead Zone", and I think that summed it up pretty well.

 

No matter how intense one's distaste might be for Hillary Clinton, it's hard for me to imagine that the glee from seeing her denied the presidency could possibly warrant enabling the disaster Trump would represent for the American nation and for the world.

[Phaedrus 209521]

The only real conclusion I can draw from this thread is that the OP and Donald Trump ought to be locked in a room together, permanently.

 

They deserve each other.

[Guest Miss Jane TG]

The only real conclusion I can draw from this thread is that the OP and Donald Trump ought to be locked in a room together, permanently.

 

They deserve each other.

 

And you just locked yourself in a logical fallacy: locking people whom you happened to disagree with, when your campaign claims tolerance.

[thepartypigeon 1096]

Sir, thank you very much. You're a perfect living example of the other campaign: simply committing what they are accusing others of doing at the first place.

 

And I was blamed for not taking the witness stand. How could I when my opponents are leading my evidence!

 

I have no idea what you're even talking about.

[Jabba 18389]

Well, let's get back on track shall we?

 

I really look forward to the election, so we don't have to suffer through any more Trump-this and Trump-that nonsense.

 

The press responds to all the outrageous crap this A-hole pumps out & this gives him a monopoly on the headlines.

 

Can somebody in head office at the press-offices just push the "stop it" button. Please?

 

We've already overdosed on the other so called news worthy celebrities (Kartrashians, Hiltons, etc). It's like a monstrous, out of control useless-information machine.

 

I agree it's Headlines, but holy crap, aren't there other worthwhile events that need more attention?

[Hector17 9215]

I was noting this thread, but was watching the convention before I really fixed my opinion. Yes, like the OP, I believe Hilary is crooked, a liar and extremely corrupt, and not much is likely able to change that, as it is what it is. After watching the convention, hearing out Trumps' family , friends, some very high profile business leaders, clergy, law enforcement people etc talking about him, I hear and believe I see a different side of Trump. I listened to his entire speech last night....well done Donald! I believe him to be sincere in his goal and he will do his best to "Make America Great Again"...great speech, as it outlined his priorities, promises, and detailed the Obama/Clinton/Clinton failings. He is blunt for some peoples liking...he isn't going to be PC...doesn't have to be.

[Exotic Touch Danielle 31728]

Trump is not serious at all .. he is making this out to be a joke .. lord help everyone if he elected!

Sorry but I don't see anything good coming out of it

With everything going on right now we need someone serious

[Kubrickfan 12836]

I think Trump has hit a nerve in the US. I think he's going to win and it's probably not going to be particularly close.

 

If it wasn't for her party's support, Clinton probably would have been defeated in the primaries by a crazed socialist so I don't know how she is going to do against a well known populist character with a simple message that most Americans support. Also I think Trump will govern like most good business people lead ... Surround himself with strong leaders and let them do their thing.

[MightyPen 67414]

Trump has hit a vein, but it's a vein consisting almost exclusively of bitter, resentful, and frightened white people who think they owned the country once and badly want it back. Thankfully they're just a minority, and one that's shrinking all the time.

 

Trump is thin-skinned, egomaniacal, petulant child and an incompetent, serial bankrupt. And if he gets the presidency he'd run the country just like he's run his businesses: he'd surround himself with toadies and sycophants, try to bully his way through problems, and lash out obsessively at anyone who offends him. For now, he just uses Twitter; if he wins, just wait 'til January.

 

There is no greater calamity that could befall the U.S. than to put a sociopathic, egomaniacal demagogue like Trump in charge. It's already a black spot on the nation that they've let him come this close.

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

When I first read the title I thought you were calling Trump a bitch. Sadly, people think Trump(men) tough - Hilary(women) a Bitch! I wonder why? Not really.

 

Here's a list of her complaints:

 

Benghazi- she was cleared of any wrongdoing. That attack should ultimately be blamed on Bush and HIS policies. She doesn't send in the Marines immediately and there are a few deaths and she is a murdering bitch? Bush starts a Crusade that causes thousands of American deaths and hundreds of thousands of collateral deaths and "Right Wingers" are strangely silent.

 

E-mails- she was cleared of criminal charges for using a private email server. Before we make a mountain out of a molehill, Powell(and others) did the same and he thinks what she did was common practice. Trump encourages Russia to hack her account(condoning espionage) and it's crickets, more or less from the right.

 

Establishment- we do need to shake the tree, but who really thinks angry hillbillies and their Demagogue should have a control of that country. Trump acts like a narcissistic sociopath, full of bluster, misogyny, racism and an all around Git(unpleasant person) who has no plan for his followers who crave simplicity in a complex world(similar to children)... and Hilary is the villain for being establishment. It's a complex world and looking backwards isn't the solution.

 

Hilary changed her mind- When did that become a reason not to vote for someone? Isn't that a strength, a willingness to grow and see new perspectives? Ali said a person who holds the same views at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life. Trump is the same narcissistic blowhard as ever and he has flipped on issues and yet the right is silent on those inconsistencies.

 

Hilary is unlikeable- Hello? Is anyone home up there? What word then exist in the English language to describe Trump, if Hilary is just unlikeable?

 

Hilary is too cosy with Arabs, Jews, *insert name*,... yet Trump wants to build a wall to isolate America, praises Putin and thinks Saddam Hussein was a great leader because he kills Terrorists. Saddam sponsored terrorism abroad by donating money to the families of suicide bombers... not to mention how many of his own citizens he killed... yet Trump admires this. And the right endorses him?

 

Hilary has made money from giving speeches to big business- Trump has made a good living off business deals(some shady) with people who could help him with his empire? Why is Hilary beholden to someone who gave her money for a speech yet Trump isn't beholden to bankers, etc.? Trump also wont release his tax records and Hilary is the bad person for making money from speeches?

 

Clinton foundation- When did charity become a bad thing? Trump scams people with his university and starts his own foundation (calculated?) and he has to be forced to give the money after an investigation, yet the Clintons foundation since 1997 has a good rating for philanthropy (from outside rating sources) yet she is vilified because the right argues she knows some of the people in charge of said causes her foundation donated to. Man, no good deed goes unpunished!

 

If Hilary is a bitch, what does that make Trump? Do people still despise women so much that they will latch on to any complaint about Hilary, real or manufactured, and vote Trump?

Compared to Trump, Hilary seems the sane choice.

 

I'm glad I live in Canada.

 

p.s. I don't have enough time to list all of Trumps.

[Guest Miss Jane TG]

Sir Nigel Farage sums it up perfectly!

 

A man once fought for more than seventeen years to expose the EU establishment and succeeded in getting the UK outside the grip of some bureaucrats in Brussels.

 

[cinelli 22184]

The worst thing about Trump?

 

He has lowered the level of political debate so far it is pathetic. There are no discussions of policy or ideas. Just soundbites and pandering. Can you imagine him on Charlie Rose having his mindless demagoguery dismantled and exposed for the simplistic nonsense that it is?

 

Someone like Stephen Sacker from Hardtalk on the BBC would cut Trump to shreds.

 

Winston Churchill said the best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Cue this thread.

[Guest Miss Jane TG]

Winston Churchill said the best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Cue this thread.

 

Curiosity must have got the best of you! You have cheered someone tagging the OP as a troll, and now you dip your 'above average' faculties in a troll-made sauce. Your post must serve the best argument against idiocracy.

[Kubrickfan 12836]

The worst thing about Trump?

 

Winston Churchill said the best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Cue this thread.

 

Respectfully, as something of a Churchill fan, although this is commonly attributed to him, Churchill never said that and generally held a very positive impression of "the little man, walking into a little booth, with a little pencil, making a little mark" or something to that effect. And he did say, or at least agreed with a remark he attributed to someone else that democracy is the worst form of Government except for the others that have been tried from time to time (smile).

 

I avoid the Internet quote finders (except the dirty quotes by Confucius ... Smile).

 

And I think people are getting too worked up about Trump. If he wins, he's going to do a great job and start to change the political landscape in the US in a way that is long overdue.

[Brad 49548]

And I think people are getting too worked up about Trump. If he wins, he's going to do a great job and start to change the political landscape in the US in a way that is long overdue.

 

Well Kubrickfan, while I strongly disagree (for pretty much all the reasons and examples laid out in previous posts) I appreciate that you at least seem able to have a reasonable discussion about it.

 

Can I ask what you've seen that makes you expect he'll improve things? Is it that you believe he'll shake up the system somehow, undoing gridlock and corruption? Or is it specific policy of Trump's you can point to that you find positive?

 

All I've witnessed is foreign policy disasters (people aren't exaggerating when they point to him being cozy with Russia, and admiring much worse). And if you saw any of his interviews before or after Brexit, it's terrifying that someone who wants to be a major world leader could be so uninformed (and uncaring!) about world events.

 

If elected it's likely he'll get to elect two members of the Supreme Court (one for sure), which has ramifications literally for decades.

 

On a policy level, it's actually very hard to get him to actually describe it beyond, and I quote, "I have a very good brain", but those he has outlined in any more detail terrify me. Again, plenty of examples have already been given.

 

On a cultural level, all I've witnessed is him painting pictures of fear, fear, fear that, unsurprisingly, only he can keep us safe from. That and divisiveness. Specific examples of unapologetic racism and sexism have already been provided.

 

I can only assume we are seeing very different sides. So--and I mean this questions without sarcasm--I'd be curious to understand what specifically you are seeing in him that I am not, what exactly you believe will change, or what policies of his you can point to that have real merit.

[cinelli 22184]

My point was that Trump's style of rant has damaged the selection process.

 

For instance, look how his opponent is criticised not because of any specific and arguable policy, but rather because she is a "bitch". Or she is an old hag.

 

If someone wants to argue that she mismanaged a specific file as Secstate then go ahead. Benghazi? Sure, post how you would have handled the situation. Don't just yell "Benghazi". at least get an idea of the report and think first.

 

The email server, well guess what, many senior beaurocrats have similar equipment. Colin Powell said he had a similar system as Secretary. The Republicans didn't mind then.

 

Trump says he will bomb ISIS. Nobody is even sure who runs that anarchic bunch so where are you going to bomb? Putin tried bombing and it hasn't wiped them out. And Al Quaeda is doing fine without Osama.

 

There was a time when people with diametrically opposing viewpoints could discuss them in a civil and productive way. Look at Gore Vidal vs William F Buckley. No hysteria or rants.

 

Now we get sound bites and zingers. Fantasy instead of policy. Fact checking is forgotten art. Anything dirty goes, because it will be remembered long after being proven wrong.

[Kubrickfan 12836]

Brad --

 

Understood and I'm not trying to convince anyone here to change their opinion. But my perspective on the issue is very different at this point from many of the people on this string. My view is that politics in the US are completely screwed up and have been for a long time and its causing the country to stagnate and divide. The only way to deal with that problem is to "shift the paradigm" ... to bring in someone entirely new that is not tied to the existing system and the existing political class. I'm focused less on the issues that the fact that we (I live in the US) need a true Statesman (ahem ... Statesperson).

 

I think the last really effective "Statesman" President was Ronald Reagan. He had a bedrock of principles (modern conservatism), a moral compass (a sense of right and wrong), a vision (a "shining city on the hill"), and the ability to achieve consensus around that vision (I think he dealt with a democratic Congress for most of the time he was President). I think Trump is developing a similar set of principles and already has demonstrated the ability to effectively lead other people at his companies, albeit much more coarsely in messaging to date. Im not equating Reagan and Trump, but I see parallels to how they are delivering their message.

 

The only specific substantive point I will address is the judiciary. I work in the legal profession, and as a firm believer in Alexander Hamilton's Federalist No. 78, I want justices of the Supreme Court exercising judgement of the law, not will over the law. In short, I don't want a nine unelected old fart justices who believe in some "living constitution" or bullcrap like that. Trump is on the record stating he won't do that; Clinton will.

 

Anyways, enough said.

[Brad 49548]

I appreciate the answer Kubrickfan,

 

While you and I have very different politics and I truly can't see the things in Trump that you do, that does help me see where you're coming from and--given your beliefs--why you'd support him.

 

And while I may hope come November you're disappointed, thanks for the discussion.

[Guest Miss Jane TG]

My point was that Trump's style of rant has damaged the selection process.

 

For instance, look how his opponent is criticised not because of any specific and arguable policy, but rather because she is a "bitch". Or she is an old hag

 

You have absolutely no point to say in this thread when you cheered someone uttering nonsense. Please have the courage to admit it (not like your old hag 'bitch' Clinton) and leave the trolls enjoy this thread!

[Brad 49548]

You have absolutely no point to say in this thread when you cheered someone uttering nonsense. Please have the courage to admit it (not like your old hag 'bitch' Clinton) and leave the trolls enjoy this thread!

 

.... (nevermind, deleted response. Wasn't helpful or worth it).

[Kubrickfan 12836]

I'll add one additional thought ... not so much on the pros and cons of Clinton versus Trump, but on the bigger picture of whats going on. It may have been mentioned elsewhere in this string.

 

I think the rise of Trump, Brexit, and similar Brexit-like votes expected in other countries in the EU in the near future, represent a change in perception the advantages of globalism and at least some aspects of diversity as being always good all the time. i don't think that's a bad thing either ... the more opportunities that individual countries have to demonstrate the superioriority of certain forms of economic relations over others (for instance, the advantages of capitalism and mostly free markets over socialism, communism, dictatorships, etc.) will lead overall to a more free world.