Peeler bar lessons

[Kilt Boy 29353]

I was going to post this in the DANCERS AND DEVOTEES social group, but felt it needed a larger audience.

 

These aren't rules so much as they are guidelines. I'm going to point out a few truths (as I know them) and list some things that might make your exotic dance experience a bit better. Some of this may be a revelation and break down that barrier of fantasy. It shouldn't be. I'm about to destroy some walls with knowledge bombs. Put on your safety helmet and goggles because this is going to be a bumpy ride.

 

I'm not trying to start a war with patrons on one side and dancers on the other, snarling at each other over twenty dollar bills. I've just seen and heard too many stories about bad things happening that could have easily been resolved or even avoided altogether with a little forethought or advance information. Some of these nuggets are things that should be obvious. Others are just things that I've found work for me. Still others are gathered from stories I've heard from other dancers.

 

This is the most important piece of information you will read:

The girls are not there to find a new boyfriend or relationship. They just aren't. They're there to make money. More specifically, they're there to earn YOUR money. Now, it isn't as crass and commercial as that, but they're at work. It isn't a sorority pillow fight where everyone gets along and they smile and giggle behind their hands coquettishly. Neither should you feel like an ATM. There is a middle ground there where civil conversation can lead to some fun for you and cash for her; an equitable arrangement.

 

We all love the fantasy where you walk into a club and every woman in the place notices you and immediately wants you. They fight over who gets to buy you a beer and sit next to you, enraptured by your conversation and dizzy with the thought of being the one you choose to dance for them. Yeah. Sure. Look at it from her POV. She got to work at 11:30 and had to dance for an empty club. Then one guy came in and sat alone in the back, nursing a beer. He could use a shower and a shave. He's 10/20/30/40/+ years older than she. Her feet hurt from those stupid shoes and she's cold because the heating isn't keeping up with the weather. She goes to talk to him, hoping that he doesn't smell like beef and cheese and might give her 3 dances. She doesn't have a lot of hope, but has to pay her DJ fee.

 

Please make an effort. Sure, sometimes you make a quick decision to stop in and have a beer and see some titties and your personal hygiene may not be at its peak. At least be polite, respectful, and a little bit interesting. Don't make her do all the work.

 

Don't play games. Don't try to manipulate the girls socially or moralistically, through blackmail or coercion, or in any other way to try to gain advantage. This is real life and that's a real person you're talking to, with real feelings and real problems of her own. Don't try to negotiate with her. You're creating a disruptive scenario that affects everyone around you: the other dancers and patrons. You know the price. Pay the price. You came in to get a beer and a lap dance. Open your wallet and those things will just fall right out.

 

It is bad form to waste anyone's time. If a dancer asks to sit with you, she is not offering to start a conversation because she's bored. She wants to create a short-term bond so that you'll hopefully feel like spending money on her. Even if it ends up being guilt for wasting so much of her time, her goal is to get you in the back room. It's better for everyone if that starts off on a good note. If you don't have any money to spend on her, or she isn't your type, or you're waiting for someone specific, or you just want to be alone ... let her know up front. She may decide to spend time with you anyway, banking that time for the next night you drop in. I like to tell a dancer up front if I DO plan to spend money on her. It makes conversation much easier. If I'm taking too long, she will find it easier to push me into the back. If you spend an hour chatting up a girl and then tell her that you have to go or don't want to spend on her right now, you may have just cost her a hundred dollars from another patron. Don't be a dick. Okay, you might not know that up front and that's fair. Let her know if you can.

You are certainly welcome to sit at your table and pay too much for drinks and watch the ladies dance without paying a single one of them for anything. Nobody likes it, though. You've created a NO FLY zone around your table that may affect other patrons.

 

It's certainly possible to make friends with dancers. They are a captive and very motivated audience. They have incentive to agree with you and carry on a civil conversation. They want you to think that they want to be your friend. In some cases, this means lying or ignoring truths. They may care nothing about sports or your new car or your failing marriage. Their profession is to be friendly, and sometimes compromises are made to achieve that end. However, if you are honest and show interest in your companion's views and look them in the goddamn eyes once in a while and are a decent human being, you can certainly make friends. Probably not the kind of friends who will help you move, but at least you'll get an honest smile out of them when they see you. This isn't always the case, but it is certainly possible. Lord knows I've had some awful conversations with people I just know socially and put up with them for my own reasons.

 

STRIPPERS ARE ACTUALLY PEOPLE! I know that's hard to accept. They exist outside the club. They have lives that don't include you. In fact, they probably don't even think about you until the next time they see you. They don't sit at home thinking about how to please you or wondering what you're doing right now. I know that this will shatter some illusions, but the truth is a bitter pill to swallow. Take 5 minutes and think about it. They have family, rent, car payments, friends, responsibilities, interests, loves, hates, and everything else that you do. They don't evaporate in a puff of smoke the second you leave.

 

Some guys get completely obsessed with a particular dancer, and that's great for her because he is going to go out of his way to spend money on her. The problem is that he will monopolize that girl completely if they are both in the club, being so jealous that he can't stand to see her with anyone else. This is unhealthy. If he thinks she's faithful to him after he walks out the door, there's a shock coming. Don't be that guy.

I have a few regulars who like to spend time with me, just talking. I used to be a dancer, so I'm trained to scan the room. If I spot a guy in her rearview who is scoping her hard, I'll let her know. He may be a new client or another regular. She'll invariably get up to walk the floor and see if he's worthy of her time. Most of the time I lose a pretty companion for a while, but she'll be back or another one will come along. If you're friendly and personable, it isn't any trouble at all to attract someone to your table. Smile, for Christ's sake. Most of the time, that's all it takes to get a pretty young thing to come over. Show a little interest. Or, you know, get up and ask her.

 

Do you feel bad because you've been rejected by women a lot? Like, you've asked 10 women on dates and they all said no? Multiply that by 10x EVERY DAY, and you'll begin to understand what it's like to dance for a living. Sure, they're all extremely attractive and you feel that they shouldn't feel as bad about it as you do, but the fact is that rejection is a huge part of being a dancer. Be kind, and mindful of the girls at work.

 

If she says no, she means no. Not a playful yes. Not maybe. Hard no. That means stop. Stop doing what you're doing, whether it's trying to cajole her into a dance when she really doesn't want to, or doing something that she really feels uncomfortable with. If you're the kind of guy who doesn't accept no as no, you're a terrible human being and you must be stopped.

 

Let's have the ugly talk. Some girls perform what are called 'extras'. I don't want to talk about that, because it's against the club rules and against the law (and I have no experience with it). If you go into a club and EXPECT a dancer to give this level of service, you're looking for trouble. It can be a real insult to ask for something that they won't (and lets face it, SHOULDN'T) do. I can't blame them. Don't expect to get ANY level of service after that. You may get blackballed for the rest of your stay, or longer. There is a place for that, and it isn't a strip club.

 

I like to get the most for my money no matter where I go, no matter what I do. The same is true at a peeler bar. However, there are certain things to keep in mind. The waitress/barkeep/shooter girl wants a tip. Yes, you're paying a lot for your drinks already. Tip your server well and they'll remember you. Not everything can be measured by an immediate return on investment. When you walk into the club and the waitress remembers you and comes over with your drink without you asking, you're saving time. Most girls won't approach until you at least have a drink in front of you. I don't believe in tipping. I believe in OVERtipping. I try to give a decent amount every time I order. I also believe in over counting of songs. Was that 5? Yes? I counted 6. Not always, but I'm generous like that some days. Whatever you want to call it, it isn't getting the most for your money. However, that shouldn't be the only way you measure your fun.

 

If you manage to convince a girl to spend some time in private with you, show her some basic respect. Sure, she is likely going to get completely naked for you very soon, but you're not an animal. I'd say to treat her like your sister, but that seems wrong somehow.

You know the rules. You know what is allowed and what isn't. If not, ask for a refresher. If I'm with a lady I don't know yet, I like to inform her that I obey the club rules. This is a sure sign of respect and helps to build trust. Whatever happens after that is between you two (or three, or more). I'm not going to police how you behave. I will tell you that every girl I know trusts and respects me because of my behaviour. They're GLAD to see me. You don't have to get it all done in one song. If you do, you probably won't be approached or accepted again. Remember, just because you wave money at them doesn't mean that they have to take it.

 

Don't get upset if the dancer you are with doesn't perform to your particular desires. She may move slowly, or quickly. She may not want to kiss you. She may not rub your little man through your slacks. She may not remove her panties for a number of reasons. Nothing in life is guaranteed. If you have a question or concern, mention it to her. If that doesn't change anything, you are free to curtail your activities, pay for your time and try again with someone else. Don't throw a fit. Don't scream. Don't refuse to pay. Don't be a dick.

 

Drinks don't pay the rent. Having to take your clothes off in front of a room of relative strangers might require a little liquid courage to get you going. However, if all you plan to do is talk to a girl and buy her drinks all night, she's going home from work drunk, and broke. Offer to buy her a drink or a shot (or two) if you're having a good time, but for god's sake take the poor girl to the champagne room and spend some money on her ass.

 

You can always keep a record of your activities. That way you'd have a better way to keep track of which girls you felt you had the best experience with. It's a bit embarassing to have a conversation with a young woman who seems to know everything about you, who you can't remember. It's actually an interesting conversation tool to have to pull out your notebook/phone and check your notes.

 

A dancer, like anyone else, may have a particular type of person that they like. It may not be you. Remember that they have to be friendly with just about anyone who comes through the door. 18 years old, or 88 years old. Fat, slim, short, tall, beardy, moustached, bald, long hair, ugly, baby-faced, manly-kilt or just regular-Nancy-boy-pants wearing. The odds are against her dreaming about making passionate love to you, but she will likely be friendly enough for your needs at the moment. Just go into the exchange with your eyes open and your chance of happiness will be much higher.

 

And to the ladies, I'm sorry if this ruined a few crushes, but it may reduce the number of creepy encounters.

[Kilt Boy 29353]

Geez, dude

Shut up already!

 

:icon_biggrin:

That did go on for a while, didn't it?

Holy fucking shit!

[r__d 12698]

 

It's certainly possible to make friends with dancers.

 

Some guys get completely obsessed with a particular dancer, and that's great for her because he is going to go out of his way to spend money on her. The problem is that he will monopolize that girl completely if they are both in the club, being so jealous that he can't stand to see her with anyone else. This is unhealthy. If he thinks she's faithful to him after he walks out the door, there's a shock coming. Don't be that guy.

 

 

While it's probably wise to attempt to avoid becoming "completely obsessed with a particular dancer" there are those of us who have (in the past) attended to see an ATF more or less exclusively at a given club.

 

Having said that, I find it difficult to imagine a scenario where someone could "monopolize that girl completely if they are both in the club". Maybe a very deep-pocketed and highly obsessive fan of a particular dancer might manage this, but I wonder if it would be likely to happen. Perhaps I am naive on this count.

 

My own view has always been that potential problems are most likely to arise when someone is concerned with or interested in seeing a fave dancer outside of the club environment. It seems to me that one can indeed "make friends with dancers" but that this will be something limited to in-club interaction.

 

I have endeavoured to not "be that guy", but very occasionally certain ladies may allude to this sort of thing (i.e. meeting outside the club) and I have typically felt that this was a way of keeping "that guy" interested in the early stages of his near-obsession with the dancer in question. Certainly, there is a fine line when a dancer is attempting to cultivate someone who seems to be interested in becoming a regular and I understand that a dancer may want to seem friendly, engaged and interested. As much as the guys should not have expectations in this regard, it's probably also wise for dancers not to tease or throw out hints of this nature. Admittedly, a dancer might fall into this inadvertently and thus may set up an unfortunate series of further misunderstandings.

 

I've taken the approach of straightforwardly suggesting that an ATF not hesitate to approach when noticing me in the club and if I'm just there for a short time, I'll tell her right away.

[Kilt Boy 29353]

Having said that, I find it difficult to imagine a scenario where someone could "monopolize that girl completely if they are both in the club". Maybe a very deep-pocketed and highly obsessive fan of a particular dancer might manage this, but I wonder if this would be likely to happen. Perhaps I am naive on this count.

 

Just last week, I stopped into the old watering hole and a dancer showed up whom I knew. I knew it was her last shift before she moved and I would have liked to spend some quality time with her, but she said that she was with a regular and would come see me as soon as he left. I was there for hours, and she never left his table except to dance onstage. They went to the CR for probably 3 songs. I don't have any other details of their engagement. The look on her face was one of resignation. She had to sneak away to talk to me when he went to the bathroom.

 

Certainly, there is a fine line when a dancer is attempting to cultivate someone who seems to be interested in becoming a regular and I understand that a dancer may want to seem friendly, engaged and interested. As much as the guys should not have expectations in this regard, it's probably also wise for dancers not to tease or throw out "hints" of this nature. Admittedly, a dancer might fall into this inadvertently and thus may set up an unfortunate series of further misunderstandings.

 

I've taken the approach of straightforwardly suggesting that an ATF not hesitate to approach when noticing me in the club and if I'm just there for a short time, I'll tell her right away.

 

Ha! I do the same. "Just grab me by the hair and drag me into the back. If I'm with someone else, throw me a peace sign and I'll be right there."

 

I sometimes meet up with my favs for lunch or to help them run errands or shop. I'm the "SAFE GUY", and we all know it. It helps to have cultivated a reputation, but that requires a lot of work. Not recommended for amateurs.

[r__d 12698]

Just last week, I stopped into the old watering hole and a dancer showed up whom I knew. I knew it was her last shift before she moved and I would have liked to spend some quality time with her, but she said that she was with a regular and would come see me as soon as he left. I was there for hours, and she never left his table except to dance onstage. They went to the CR for probably 3 songs. I don't have any other details of their engagement. The look on her face was one of resignation.

 

I guess sometimes this just happens, but it's a bit difficult to figure from the dancer's point of view. Perhaps I'm missing something here - maybe he had been such a good regular over such a long period of time that she felt in some way obliged or there in fact were "other details of their engagement" to be taken into consideration. Otherwise, I find this puzzling.

 

The only time anything like this happened to me was many years ago, but the lady in question had not yet become an ATF and didn't know me. May have mentioned this a while ago in the 'Barb's' thread (so apologize for repetition if so) but I do have a recollection of seeing a dancer who became my ATF sitting at a table with a few gents for quite a while, but no one takes her to CR. She then takes her turns onstage and afterwards makes a beeline directly back to the table, sits down and again, no one takes her to the CR. This goes on until I have to leave. At the time I assumed that the guys at the table had been buying her drinks or had taken many dances prior to my arrival or were friends or long-time regulars. Recall being mildly annoyed at the time but I guess it's important to remember that dancers may choose to spend their time at the club as they wish.

[Bridgette 10998]

I guess sometimes this just happens, but it's a bit difficult to figure from the dancer's point of view. Perhaps I'm missing something here - maybe he had been such a good regular over such a long perid of time that she felt in some way obliged or there in fact were "other details of their engagement" to be taken into consideration. Otherwise, I find this puzzling.

 

From a logical, sales-driven point of view, you're right, it doesn't make sense. But it happens time and time again.

 

In some cases, it's a prior relationship or even one encounter that makes the dancer feel it's worthwhile to stick around. What's important to keep in mind is that what each dancer considers to be "worthwhile" can vary immensely. Some patrons can also be very possessive, getting angry if they see their favourite dancer even speak to other patrons. If they spend enough to make it "worthwhile," some dancers are happy to entertain that.

 

Other reasons to sit for ages without going to the CR include getting tipped for her time on the floor, wanting free drinks, enjoying the patron's company, or simply not closing the sale. Some dancers will never ask for a dance, and will only wait for the patron to invite them to the CR, which can sometimes end up taking a while or not happening at all.

[r__d 12698]

 

In some cases, it's a prior relationship or even one encounter that makes the dancer feel it's worthwhile to stick around. What's important to keep in mind is that what each dancer considers to be "worthwhile" can vary immensely. Some patrons can also be very possessive, getting angry if they see their favourite dancer even speak to other patrons. If they spend enough to make it "worthwhile," some dancers are happy to entertain that.

 

 

Interesting insight and perspective here.

 

Seems to me that it's one thing to have an ATF, quite another to "be very possessive, getting angry" seeing a "favourite dancer even speak to other patrons."

 

That sort of thing would tend to strike me as potentially, as the kids say, "problematic".

[Kilt Boy 29353]

We should also be able to agree that we cannot group all dancers into a single collective and expect them to all behave the same (as shown above). They are all individuals and act as such.

[dread pirate roberts 4036]

"You are certainly welcome to sit at your table and pay too much for drinks and watch the ladies dance without paying a single one of them for anything. Nobody likes it, though."

 

This is certainly correct. It wasn't always that way, though, and I regret that it has become the case. Once, dancers were paid, but now of course they pay for the privilege, which puts particular incentives in their path.

 

Really, if I go to a strip club, it is because I have decided I'm *not* interested in anything more than watching. The current structure, however, forces me to be a free-loader. I do, as you suggest, try to be clear as soon as possible with any dancer who drops by that I am not interested in a private dance, and I have never had anyone be impolite in response, but as you say, "nobody likes it", including me.

[Kilt Boy 29353]

For the love of god, don't be an asshole to the girls.

 

I was at a favourite watering hole yesterday and it was so dead that I had a little summit with some of the ladies, discussing bad behaviours.

 

I heard stuff that made my skin crawl and my blood boil. I'm no stranger to the business, but some of this stuff was so far over the line that even I was shocked.

 

Waiting until she turns her head away from you, then intentionally moving in closer so that when she turns around your lips touch. That's unwanted sexual touching right there. It's technically assault.

 

Taking it out of your pants and telling her to put it in her mouth. Then when she says no and points out the very sensible club rules, telling her to fuck you. Agreeing to continue without interruption, but continuing with an unbroken stream of requests for sexual activity. No means no, asshole!

 

I know times are tough and the cash just isn't flowing in like it used to, but nobody should be forced to choose to put up with shitty behaviour just because the guy is paying. That's predatory.

 

Those are just a couple of mild examples I was told about. If you're one of these guys, or aren't shaking your head while reading this post, maybe just don't go to the strip club because you're a terrible human being.

 

Yes, there are some girls who will go further than others. One may try to shove it down her throat on the first song (unlikely). Don't judge anyone else's behaviour by that. In fact, don't even judge HER normal behaviour by that.

 

One more piece of advice: treat each CR session as a separate event. If you've seen a girl before and she let you get pretty far, don't think that you've put a bookmark in your activities and you'll start up right where you left off. Today is a different day.