Scratching my head

[Jabba 18389]

This is probably a really hot-button topic to start in a forum such as this, but I've grown to trust the readership and integrity on this board. Please feel free to share your own opinions, but for heaven's sake - don't flame people over their views on this topic.

 

I have been scratching my head over the Russell Williams case - the Lt. Col who was convicted of at least 2 homicides, 82 counts of B&E & 4 sex assaults. What the hell happened to this guy??!! By all accounts he was a functional, upwardly mobile kinda fella. Accomplished, intelligent?...I should be so lucky!

 

His victims?...I'm astonished at the viciousness and callousness of the attacks. Words fail me at how he treated his neighbours & victims. The classic guy living next door syndrome. The cliche interview with the neighbour thing: "He was a quiet guy, never caused any trouble..." I've seen the police interrogation interviews - the classic confidence and arrogance that psychopaths often display. Chilling.

 

This case just struck me as being totally odd - I've heard theories that range from the medication he was taking to latent Psychopathic sadomasochistic tendencies suddenly presenting. I've even read Christian boards discussing the concept of acceptance and forgiveness.

 

I would also like to congratulate the cops who nabbed this guy. It takes time to connect the dots. You just can't leap to conclusions about who does this sort of thing. But really - great observation skills and detective work - you guys did a great job at nailing this sick bastard to the wall.

 

Help me understand this case people - I just don't get it. What the hell happened? What are your thoughts?:confused:

[dirkgently 1778]

Some psychopaths are born, others made. We may never know.

 

I rarely speak well of ultra-conservatives or rednecks, but in this case the people of Texas may have the right idea. The only problem with capital punishment is that he won't suffer like his victims did.

[Pink Kitty Escorts 6195]

Folks, In order to get to the ranks and places, and have the connections that this individual had.. He has probably had some kind of mind control/programming done to him.

 

After a while things like this happen and many of them snap... How many ppl in the military end up having severe mental breakdowns later on in life?

 

This is in no way excusing what he did, he is a human being, and adult and has to be held accountable for his actions.. But to do the things he did, in the way in which he did lends me to believe he had alot of things done to him to provoke this kind of behaviour. I dont think someone like this could ever be rehabilitated... And I am in the opinion that the death sentence should be allowed in cases like these, when there is zero doubt of the guilt of the individual.

 

An interesting side note.. I read somewhere that he and paul bernardo new each other.. Went to the same school together..ect.. Isnt ironic that they are not both housed at the same prison.. same ward... merely feet away from each other..

 

Strange..

[Reddog01 30280]

Folks, In order to get to the ranks and places, and have the connections that this individual had.. He has probably had some kind of mind control/programming done to him.

 

After a while things like this happen and many of them snap... How many ppl in the military end up having severe mental breakdowns later on in life?

 

PK: Can't let this one go by. Military personnel are not brain washed; however they learn discipline through training and "drills" and "procedures". It is a generalization to say he did this because of being in the Canadian Forces. In fact if you do the research military folks are on par with the rest of Canadian society regarding mental breakdowns.

 

Edited to add: I don't think we will ever know why Williams did what he did. However, I am confident that the heinous crimes he committed was not caused by his experience in the Military.

[Amanda Bella 421]

[quote=pkjason He has probably had some kind of mind control/programming done to him.

Strange..[quote

 

I think pkjason made a good point.

 

I have a cousin in Brazil who after 2 years of military trainning decided to quit because he said that part of his trainning he had to beat up his colleges and not show any emotion and he also had to sleep under very cold conditions as part of the process of becoming ''military staff'' My cousin was raised with lots of love thus he could not stand all the military torturous ''trainning''

 

No wonder the statistics on domestic violence in military domestic households are high.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

I was very disturbed too (and angry) when I read the details of what he did to his victims and I wished that we still had capital punishment in this country (yes guys I said it).

[VedaSloan 119179]

Well it was only a matter of time before he got caught. I mean, who keeps detailed spreadsheets outlining your crimes?

[Guest G***f******]

Well it was only a matter of time before he got caught. I mean, who keeps detailed spreadsheets outlining your crimes?

 

It's apparently not uncommon for these types of criminals to keep journals of their crimes.

[Lowdark 5613]

I agree with Red Dog on this as well. His military training had little to do with his descent. to do otherwise is to skate dangerously close to offending the men and women who serve in uniform and have sacrificed so much. From what I understand, the real shock was to the military since you have to pass rigorous psychological testing to reach that kind of rank. Interestingly enough, I recently saw a documentary citing that politics and corporate culture offered more opportunities for psychopaths and sociopaths than any other occupation.

 

Perhaps we can chalk it up to a man of weak character choosing to be evil, choosing to indulge his own selfish impulses despite the pain and suffering it caused others. No breakdown, no myths of psychological conditioning, just plain old human darkness. Most of us choose to ignore our base natures, he chose to embrace it.

[Jabba 18389]

I understand the concept of brainwashing in the military - while it may be true, it has nothing to do with the kind of behaviours that Williams displayed.

 

Military training is more about discipline within the code of the military. Respect and obey the chain of command. Yes, training in the military does contain elements of brain-washing. It is tough. It is unfair. It is only for those who are prepared to accept the military way of life.

 

I'm not a military guy. I do know people who are. Williams is not a military guy. He is a man without conscience. He had a path that can't be explained by military training.

 

What I can't understand is, how he could restrain his tendencies for so long. Perhaps the military provided structure to his personality defects (that couldn't be contained otherwise)?

[Nicolette Vaughn 294340]

I have had dealings with this guy before and I knew back then something was wrong with him. He was also an arrogant fu*****. He also lived in the same community as I did.

 

I really believe it all goes back to his mother and father. If you research about where they lived in Chalk River, you will find a few interesting details about his parents that may have messed him up for life. You don't just become a serial killer for no apparent reason.

 

The police are still looking into unsolved crimes as he has lived in other provinces throughout the years and interestingly enough, many women have disappeared in the same city where he was stationed.

[Jabba 18389]

I have had dealings with this guy before and I knew back then something was wrong with him. He was also an arrogant fu*****. He also lived in the same community as I did.

 

I really believe it all goes back to his mother and father. If you research about where they lived in Chalk River, you will find a few interesting details about his parents that may have messed him up for life. You don't just become a serial killer for no apparent reason.

 

The police are still looking into unsolved crimes as he has lived in other provinces throughout the years and interestingly enough, many women have disappeared in the same city where he was stationed.

 

Nicolette - I don`t automatically validate information simply because it appears in mainstream media. I appreciate your first-hand contribution/experience. If you are comfortable sharing your experience with this guy - what set your alarm bells going?

[WildTiger 1296]

There is no excusing anything that Williams did. However, it is important to separate his career from his heinous actions. I can't speak for other nations but I can assure you that Canadian military training does not include brain washing. Military personnel are trained to follow orders, to be leaders, to perform many jobs that aren't normally associated with civilian careers, and similar to police and firefighters, be prepared to sacrifice their life style (frequent postings and/or time away from family or friends) and possibly even there lives in performance of their duties to protect Canadians and support the objectives of the elected government.

 

Williams is a very sick psychopath that committed horrible acts but it has nothing to do with his military training. I'm sure that we don't think all pig farmers are potential serial killers because of their vocations based on the actions of Robert Pickton. It isn't fair to all those that are prepared to serve their country to paint them with the same brush as MR Russell Williams.

[roamingguy 300292]

First, I take exception to comments that it is his military background...bullshit!!!...I was in the infantry, never any sort of the training we had would even remotely make you want to do what Williams did. By that logic, since Bernardo and Williams both went to U of Toronto, I guess U of Toronto produces serial killers...same dumb logic. It also demeans every man and woman serving/have served in the Canadian Armed Forces (some in harms way), and especially those that have lost their lives serving to make such generalizations. Williams would have done his murders even if he was a night manager at a convenience store. And his first murder victim served in the Armed Forces.

Second, they finally caught him...I don't think these two murders are his first. I'll bet he has a string of bodies to his name, and I bet there will be cold cases that end up solved.

Third, the speed in which he was caught and convicted. While to the layman, it may have seemed a long time, in fact the first murder was in Nov 2010, by Feb 2011 he was interviewed by police, arrested, and in October 2011 sitting in Kingston Pen beginning his Life Sentence.

My sources (very reliable) tell me that Williams is in Segregation, on suicide watch, doesn't shower, doesn't take yard. Bernardo is in a completely seperate isolated area for high profile inmates...they are not in cells side by side as media would like you to believe.

Finally don't refer to him as Col. He lost his rank, commission, medals. He is just Convict R. Williams

RG

[Apex2006 1071]

 

His victims?...I'm astonished at the viciousness and callousness of the attacks. Words fail me at how he treated his neighbours & victims. The classic guy living next door syndrome. The cliche interview with the neighbour thing: "He was a quiet guy, never caused any trouble..." I've seen the police interrogation interviews - the classic confidence and arrogance that psychopaths often display. Chilling.

 

 

Just remember that the BTK killer was a by-law officer that was the head of his church comminity. Always seemed te be a quiet guy that just liked to help people out!

 

I used to have a Biker gang member next door, I always felt safe as he never wanted trouble at home! He was the best neighbour I ever had!

[Grass_Hopper 18263]

I know a lot of people that have done war, UN tours, missions... I would never put it on the army. I believe this guy was unstable to begin with and army is just a fade excuse to justify his crimes...

 

What can't be justify is desinstitutionalization and no proper treatment for any mental illness, and this for the whole population. What about R.Pickton? He was'nt in the army and did pretty much the same thing...

 

I believe that human being has to find a reason for everything, wich is just plain wrong. Sometimes things just happen...

 

I agree with those Cristian sites and say we must forgive, BUT NOT FORGET, and treat people better, in this case care for the families, take him out of jail, and send him to psychiatric facilities for the rest of his life.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

Some things can not be forgiven, christian or not and crimes against defenceless women and children is one of them. I can never forgive him and the evils he did to his young defenceless victims.

 

I say it again. I wished we had capital punishment in this country (or a time machine lol). What differentiate between a dangerous animal (like a violent wolf or poisonous snake ) and a human is not walking on two legs but rather the facts that humans are supposed to bahave like humans (humaine and caring). Those who harm the weak and rape and murder the defenceless are worse than violent animals and don't deserve to be living among the human race and must never ever get another chance to take another innocent young defenceless victim.

[Nicolette Vaughn 294340]

Nicolette - I don`t automatically validate information simply because it appears in mainstream media. I appreciate your first-hand contribution/experience. If you are comfortable sharing your experience with this guy - what set your alarm bells going?

 

He just seemed odd and suspcious and when you would talk to him or vice versa, he would not look you in the eye. Just stared at the ground. I don't want to get into how I knew him but needless to say, I got a creepy vibe from him. I have met many people who seemed anti-social and this guy was just that. By all outward appearances, he seemed normal and after talking to him, I knew he wasn't. He couldn't really carry on a conversation.

 

My intuition has always been right on and when this story hit the news earlier this year, I yelled to a friend screaming that I knew there was something wrong with him. In hindsight having come into contact with him, the thought of this was scary enough!