cameras at Barbarella's Diamonds Cabaret

[Kilt Boy 29353]

I'm not the guy who pushes the limits in the back room. I'm the respectful one. I like to have a good time, but I don't go against club policy.

 

That said, I know some guys and gals do.

 

The owner has cameras in the champagne room to keep everyone safe, in theory, but I've been hearing some disturbing reports.

 

I love new technologies and the idea that I can watch my security camera feed from my phone is welcome news. However, it troubles me that the owner (or manager, or whoever has access) is able to view them from home and/or show the video to their friends.

 

You see, the video isn't just live. It is recorded for them to view. I'm sure it was intended to be used for safety, but I've had more than one person say that the owner has shown them past video of them ON HIS PHONE regarding some transgression in the champagne room that he wants explained. The angle of the cameras leaves much room for supposition on the part of management, and nothing at all in the way of evidence one way or the other. It could look way worse than it actually is. Of course, it could be exactly what it looks like, too. Still, these limited-line-of-sight videos are being used to punish the dancers.

 

I don't know about you, but I don't want there to be recorded video of me getting lap dances. Period. I don't care if it's legal, or within his rights to do so, or not.

 

I won't be returning as long as those cameras exist in the back. There are other clubs not too much further away that I also enjoy.

[canuckhooker 19203]

You are out of your mind if you continue to go to an establishment that allows this practice. Security cameras are one thing, but to monitor them and show the film to others is quite another. It is a huge violation of privacy and trust for your customers. It is definitely illegal.

 

I guess they figure nobody will have the balls to challenge them legally about this. They need to post warning signs at a minimum, and then the videos should only be used to monitor for security reasons.

 

I rarely go there as it is, but I will never set foot in that place again, and I would encourage others to do the same.

[HUGS AND KISSES 2276]

I have been going to Barbarellas for almost 20 years likely longer than anyone on this board and the only reason is that for some reason or reasons they are able to attract very attractive classy young ladies but to be honest I never liked the staff there or their Cameras or their open champagne rooms (since 2008 because of the City bylaw for which they went too far but before that private dances were private).

 

As for cameras for sure there were there up till a few years ago and they could be seen. In fact 15 years ago they displayed a notice at the check-in that they monitored champagne rooms with cameras but what I didn't know until now was that they are still there. I thought they were removed a few years ago and I have looked everywhere and couldn't see anything resembling a hidden camera but I could be wrong.

 

I remember a few years ago when I complained about cameras to dancers and lack of privacy (I don't do anything extra or illegal either but I would like my privacy for what is called 'private' dances) I was told that these cameras are there to settle disputes not to watch over customers or monitor dancers. By dispute I mean when a customer complains about number of dances then they watch the cameras to settle dispute (we both know there are a few dancers out there in every bar who inflate the number of dances as per my experiences on one occasion a dancer asked for 5 ($100) after 2 songs but I always pay and never dispute but some don't and this is when cameras help).

 

As much as I don't like the bar itself especially a couple of daytime staff with serious attitudes I will continue to go there but with lesser frequency as I really love most of the ladies who work there some of whom I know for years and consider them as friends. The closest to Barbarellas (in terms of young attractive classy ladies they are able to attract) is Barefax whose champagne rooms are private with no cameras so I have started going there instead on more occasions but Barefax is dead on Saturdays when I usually go out and there is no substitute for it except Barbarellas.

[verticalsmile 300]

I mentioned these cameras a while back on the main barbs thread started by cato.... one the girls told me that the cameras were HD... but the responses I got seemed like people were not that concerned.... however since then I have almost completely stopped going there... especially after Brandy left.... but now that u mention that the management is punishing girls from recorded footage.... i'm disinclined to return to the establishment.... i make it a point to never do anything that makes the girls feel uncomfortable in any way from time spent in the cr... but knowing now that if something that the girl was comfortable enough to do would possibly later come back to punish her... just does not go with my own personal rules of visting an sc...

 

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[Kilt Boy 29353]

There have been instances where dancers have actually been in some distress in the back room, and having someone monitoring live would have been helpful. This isn't going on, to my knowledge.

 

The DJ has a pretty good field of view, but he isn't always watching nor always in the booth.

 

Is having no cameras at all better?

[verticalsmile 300]

Safety of dancers is always a concern and in an sc, the level of vulnerability is high, no doubt.... but that too comes with job... some of the potential risk should be managed by the women themselves.... they should sit down and talk with the guy in the lounge first and assess the 'creepiness' or 'ungentlemenness' level of the client and go to cr if they are comfortable with the client.... however cameras are a bit of a stickler for me.... a) because you are recording a girl naked (i mean it's really hard to get a girl to agree to be recorded while naked in any other case).... and b) do i really want to be recorded with a naked girl in an sc? I mean it could potentially be much worse if the guy is married.... at any establishment/business, it is the priority of management to ensure the safety of their employees.... however at an sc, is HD cameras really the way to do it?

 

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[HUGS AND KISSES 2276]

Well if it is not being monitored live anymore then it is of little help as far as safety of dancers is concerned. Also in an open champagne room like Barbarellas with more then one dancer in the room most of the time it is very unlikely that a dancer would be in a serious situation in my view. I think that also it is the dancer who should assess the situation and if it is not to her liking then should stop the dance and leave but that is again just my view.

 

In summary I don't believe that there should be cameras where so called private dancing is taking place. All strip bars have been hit bad recent years for various reasons described before but Barbarellas has been hit the worst and in my view it is their own doing by taking things to the extreme like having cameras in the champagne rooms where PRIVATE dances are taking place and worse punishing dancers for that or creating totally open champagne rooms or hiring bad staff with attitudes (both daytime and evening) and not acting on customers' complains but all these again are just my views.

 

Btw, if you are really concerned about cameras then a few dancers told me that the two chairs next to bank and vender machines at the back have no cameras. Again here I am posting what I was told and I don't guarantee its accuracy. Some dancers have preference for these two chairs and is almost always occupied so as why I suspect it may be true.

[r__d 12698]

 

I'm sure it was intended to be used for safety, but I've had more than one person say that the owner has shown them past video of them ON HIS PHONE regarding some transgression in the champagne room that he wants explained. The angle of the cameras leaves much room for supposition on the part of management, and nothing at all in the way of evidence one way or the other. It could look way worse than it actually is. Of course, it could be exactly what it looks like, too. Still, these limited-line-of-sight videos are being used to punish the dancers.

 

I don't know about you, but I don't want there to be recorded video of me getting lap dances. Period. I don't care if it's legal, or within his rights to do so, or not.

 

 

While many of us probably have been aware of the possibility (or indeed likelihood) of recording devices in the CR at Barb's, it is more than bit disconcerting to be told that the owner (and possibly other staff) are showing "past video" to people on his/their smartphone.

 

KiltBoy, without getting into specific individuals, are those (the "more than one person") you allude to here dancers or patrons?

 

One would hope that the recorded video is erased after review (for either song count disputes or behaviour transgression) but I suppose that we have to be aware of the ever-present possibility that the material is retained.

 

A major concern (of patrons and dancers) in this regard has to be that a disgruntled staff member who has managed to gain access to some or all of the archived digital video will malevolently make this material available on some public forum or, after the closure of the club (sorry to raise that topic again), the video files will be released into the wild in some way.

 

Perhaps one should not panic on this count, but the worst case scenario is indeed somewhat troubling.

 

P.S. : Does anyone have any inkling or speculation as to just where the cameras are located and thus what their potential lines-of-sight might encompass? Given the height of the CR stall walls and the position of the cubicle, I always guessed (perhaps incorrectly) that the last stall in the corner across from the DJ booth (the southeast corner of the CR, aka 'Jenny's office') would not be easily viewed by any camera placement except one directly overhead. Maybe I did not fully consider the possibilities of various placements and sight-lines.

[Kilt Boy 29353]

All those shown video were dancers. I don't know everything though.

[CarpeDiem 2514]

Man! What a can of worms!!

 

First of all, a huge THANK YOU to Kilt Boy for raising this issue. I'm sure you were somewhat troubled about whether to open this topic, but I'm very glad you did.

 

There is a note about video surveillance at the club, I didn't realize it extended to the CR.

 

On the one hand, the arguments for video surveillance are somewhat valid. But I'm afraid the "EWWWW" factor outweighs them. Fortunately, I don't have any "blackmailability" about any video of me, but it is my privacy, and from what has been said there's WAY too much looseness about how these videos are being played and reused.

 

One interesting issue in the Cloud is that high tech companies are having various files subpoenaed for various reasons. These video files would almost certainly be subject to subpoena in any civil or criminal case.

 

<JOKE>On the other hand, maybe I should hope it gets out. How cool are you among your friends if they find out there's "PORN VIDEO" of you out there? Can we claim residuals??</JOKE>

 

On the issue of the safety of the dancers, which is the only issue I care about, i) there's almost always more than one back there, ii) the dj is usually in the booth, in clear earshot of a yell or scream, iii) even if i) and ii) don't apply, I think if a dancer yelled or screamed, someone would hear it in the club, and iv) any bad-minded customers know all of this. I've never asked, but dancers, do you feel that if the video was removed, you'd feel less safe?

 

So, bottom line, absolutely not acceptable, I won't be going for any dances until it's removed. Which almost certainly means I won't be at the club, unfortunately. Unlike another poster, I really like all of the staff there, and I'm going to miss them!

[Kilt Boy 29353]

On the other hand, maybe I should hope it gets out. How cool are you among your friends if they find out there's "PORN VIDEO" of you out there? Can we claim residuals??

 

Too late.

 

Don't get me wrong, though. I'll certainly go back as soon as those cameras disappear.

[CarpeDiem 2514]

Next question:

 

Does anybody know with certainty which clubs do or don't have cameras in the CR? For the ones that do, does anybody know of any policies about review and retention, other than "the owner can do whatever he wants, show it to his friends, publish it on PornTube, whatever?"

[r__d 12698]

Next question:

 

Does anybody know with certainty which clubs do or don't have cameras in the CR? For the ones that do, does anybody know of any policies about review and retention, other than "the owner can do whatever he wants, show it to his friends, publish it on PornTube, whatever?"

 

I'm guessing (and it's only a guess) that the configuration of the CR booths at the 'Fax is not particularly good for this type of surveillance.

 

As far as the 'Mate is concerned, I can only conclude that many dancers (and patrons) are, to say the least, less than concerned about the possibilty of installed surveillance. Of course, this is not to say that the 'Mate CR is camera-free.

[HUGS AND KISSES 2276]

Unfortunately CarpeDiem my reasons for continuing to go to Barbs is much stronger than yours (liking the ladies too much who I will miss than liking the staff, just kidding:)) so unlike you I can't stop going there in spite of everything. I agree with you that cameras won't make it much safer for dancers for reasons you stated very well. The fact that most dancers take me to the two chairs next to the vending machine where supposedly there are no cameras could be (not is for sure) an indication that most dancers are not happy about being recorded either. Potential issues raised so far in this thread about the possible misuse or malicious use of past recordings have concerned me as well as I have been to this bar likely more than a thousand times past 20 years. Though the fact that cameras have been there for years maybe even decades and it has never been used maliciously is a positive sign for future.

 

I hate to be the pessimistic one but Barbs owner has proven in the past that he is quite stubborn about his policies. I read somewhere that a few years ago he was told about complains regarding his open champagne room on cerb by a distinguished cerb member and he didn't wish to listen and claimed he never heard of cerb and then said he runs a clean establishment and will not change his CR and he didn't!..... In other words this or other threads about issues at Barbs or even in-person complain will not likely change anything but again this is just my opinion and I hope I am wrong.

 

Btw, I was told by dancers who I trust that there are no cameras at Barefax in the champagne rooms and I would be really surprised if there are cameras at Playmates though never asked anyone because I never suspected this possibility at PM considering that they have an upstairs for more privacy of dances.

[r__d 12698]

 

One interesting issue in the Cloud is that high tech companies are having various files subpoenaed for various reasons. These video files would almost certainly be subject to subpoena in any civil or criminal case.

 

 

"...in the Cloud..." Now that is a truly very disturbing possibilty. I've been working on the assumption that this would be a kind of internal CCTV (as the British say) kind of thing, but the notion that cloud storage is being used is somewhat concerning. But, come to think of it, if material is being shown via smartphone it is clearly already vulnerable and, to some degree, 'out there'. Not to mention lower tech distribution methods.

[CarpeDiem 2514]

Yes, sorry, those of use who visit the CRs are already transmitted, saved, backed up, and repositoried on the InterWebs.

 

I hope the owner knows how to create a secure password...

[Kilt Boy 29353]

Here is some heavy reading. Actually, it is pretty well explained.

 

https://www.priv.gc.ca/en/privacy-topics/surveillance-and-monitoring/gl_vs_080306/

 

Maybe if everyone asked for a copy of their session (apparently yours by right) after leaving the CR things might start to happen.

[r__d 12698]

Here is some heavy reading. Actually, it is pretty well explained.

 

https://www.priv.gc.ca/en/privacy-topics/surveillance-and-monitoring/gl_vs_080306/

 

Maybe if everyone asked for a copy of their session (apparently yours by right) after leaving the CR things might start to happen.

 

 

This is really very enlightening. If all of these "guidelines" were explicitly and rigourously adhered to, there would be scant cause for concern. If.

 

I note particularly the admonition that "[t]he recorded images must be stored in a secure location...". Wondering if a smartphone qualifies.

 

Also notable is the statement that the guidelines do not "apply to the surveillance of employees." This seems to be the purpose of the surveillance in this case.

[Kilt Boy 29353]

None of the dancers are employees. They are all private contractors.

[r__d 12698]

None of the dancers are employees. They are all private contractors.

 

Point taken. Although I wonder if a court would see it this way, at least for the purpose of judging the application of such privacy legislation.

 

Overall, I really would have concerns that the installation at 340 is not meeting the standard set out in these guidelines and thus I'm wondering if the use of surveillance in this case is actually in some aspect(s) in contravention with the letter of the law.

[Aquarius 150]

Just a note that I have stopped going to Barbs as a consequence of just the kind of punishment mentioned at the beginning of this thread. A lady I know - now out of the business - was banned for two weeks, apparently for excessive 'grinding'. This was conveyed to her ex post facto via a played back recording. She also witnessed the play back of two others who were banned - for more extreme behaviors.(Reason to believe that there is in fact totally unwarranted sharing of such videos.) Now for the kicker.. that was two years ago. It would seem this has been a practice at Barbs for some time. I am not aware of cameras at other clubs - or at least I am not aware of them being used in this kind of malicious manner. Hope this helps.

[Kilt Boy 29353]

I couldn't find anything specific about Ottawa, but ...

 

City of Toronto Municipal Code Chapter 545, Article XXXII

Article XXXII of the City of Toronto Municipal Code Chapter 545 prescribes several health and safety standards for adult entertainment parlours (strip clubs) and their attendants (exotic dancers). These include the following requirements regarding the premises:

 

Among other things,

Prohibits the use of cameras or recording devises on the premises (545-390);

[Reddog01 30280]

Interesting discussion. Yes I have been aware of the cameras in Barb's for some time ...years. I remember one in a hanging plant a couple of years back when management was trying to be more covert. It was hanging from the ceiling about half way up the room on the DJ window side.

 

I choose to ignore it personally, other than a couple of dancers did mention it to me as they maneuvered to choose the best booth to mitigate "privacy concerns".

 

I took it in stride rationalizing that management would be "responsible" with the recordings. Kilt Boy's revelations do re-raise concern and to be honest I did not think about "the cloud" and the ability to store terabytes of data. I further rationalized: Who would be interested in watching such, for the most part, benign content even if deposited somewhere in the web environment? I know that is not the point here and I am not thrilled to hear that "sessions" are being shared on cellphones.

 

Yes it would be embarrassing but we all do our own risk assessments, maybe I will have to re-evaluate my thoughts on this one. The truth is even though I find this particular monitoring somewhat evasive, the CCTV age has dulled my "spidey senses" and I have accepted the risk on this one.

[ottawaboy 220]

Very disturbing indeed. Kudos to kilt boy for having the cojones to start this thread. Bottom line is cameras should not be in the champagne room, period. I don't buy the "security" or "dispute" arguments. Although I don't downplay the importance of security, there are less invasive ways to address those concerns. In the end, there can be no guarantees that the footage won't be misused or end up in the wrong hands - especially given the nature of this business. I'm truly pissed about this and won't be returning as long as the cameras remain...

 

Interesting discussion. Yes I have been aware of the cameras in Barb's for some time ...years. I remember one in a hanging plant a couple of years back when management was trying to be more covert. It was hanging from the ceiling about half way up the room on the DJ window side.

 

I choose to ignore it personally, other than a couple of dancers did mention it to me as they maneuvered to choose the best booth to mitigate "privacy concerns".

 

I took it in stride rationalizing that management would be "responsible" with the recordings. Kilt Boy's revelations do re-raise concern and to be honest I did not think about "the cloud" and the ability to store terabytes of data. I further rationalized: Who would be interested in watching such, for the most part, benign content even if deposited somewhere in the web environment? I know that is not the point here and I am not thrilled to hear that "sessions" are being shared on cellphones.

 

Yes it would be embarrassing but we all do our own risk assessments, maybe I will have to re-evaluate my thoughts on this one. The truth is even though I find this particular monitoring somewhat evasive, the CCTV age has dulled my "spidey senses" and I have accepted the risk on this one.

Posted via Mobile Device

[fortunateone 156618]

I couldn't find anything specific about Ottawa, but ...

 

City of Toronto Municipal Code Chapter 545, Article XXXII

Article XXXII of the City of Toronto Municipal Code Chapter 545 prescribes several health and safety standards for adult entertainment parlours (strip clubs) and their attendants (exotic dancers). These include the following requirements regarding the premises:

 

Among other things,

Prohibits the use of cameras or recording devises on the premises (545-390);

 

 

Then a complaint can be filed with bylaws of the city of toronto, provided that this club is located in that city of course. otherwise you'd have to find the bylaws for the specific city or contact the city to see as to if it is legal or illegal in that setting in that location. they may limit security cameras to entry and exits for example.