The Desperation Argument?

[Taffer 2280]

I'm going to try and keep my personal biases out of this for now. I'd appreciate some feedback on a topic that concerns me.

 

How would you (sp or non sp) address the desperation argument? Those who believe that no one would ever turn to sex work (let alone enjoy it), unless they are desperate?

[Phaedrus 209521]

Given that this argument is rooted in ignorance, I'd suggest education is the answer.

 

Unfortunately, this is hard to do. You can't easily force education on someone, and if you've having a debate with someone on this then it's unlikely that they're going to put a lot of time and effort into proving themselves wrong. I'd suggest that the best solution might be to point them to blogs, articles, etc written by SPs who are obviously doing what they want and enjoying themselves while they do.

 

You could also point out that the same argument applies - and probably more so - to other jobs. I can't imagine that working in a call centre (to pick an example at random) is anyone's idea of their ideal job, but there are plenty of people doing it.

[Guest *Ste***cque**]

There are clearly cases where women who do sex work are desperate, either for fast money or are doing this work against their will. We have to accept that possibility and do our best to vette the situation as customers. Street corner... desperate vs experienced lyla member in an upscale hotel... not as desperate? You can never be 100% certain as this work does attract those looking for quick money who may not have the personality for this type of work. Being physically intimate with a stranger is not like other typical jobs that I'm familiar with.

 

Still, sex work is work...same as any other type of work, you can be oppressed and feel desperate or burned out. If all clients and bosses treated workers with compassion and concern, all forms of work could be much more pleasant.

 

Then work just becomes a matter of aptitude and choice.

 

Some people love fishing on the high seas and thankfully, some women love sex work and the feelings of intimacy or power or whatever else it gives them.

[Guest Miss Jane TG]

Who is really desperate? The ones who prostitute their bodies for the high dollar, or the ones who prostitute their souls for payslips!

[Lephturn 2649]

I'm going to try and keep my personal biases out of this for now. I'd appreciate some feedback on a topic that concerns me.

 

How would you (sp or non sp) address the desperation argument? Those who believe that no one would ever turn to sex work (let alone enjoy it), unless they are desperate?

 

I wonder must have happened to the person making that argument that they feel sex is so terrible and shameful.

[Brad 49548]

I wonder must have happened to the person making that argument that they feel sex is so terrible and shameful.

 

 

I'm not sure that's necessarily the case. I think it really is more a matter of education and exposure.

 

What kind of information do most people have about sex work, after all? TV and news, right? And think about how it's typically portrayed there. If that's all you see or know of this industry then naturally a person would have a skewed view, apart from their usual feelings or experiences with intimacy.

 

Criminal shows and hollywood movies of course want to present a sordid and tragic tail. The escort who carefully screens her clients and spends a mutually satisfying and agreed upon period of time with them doesn't make for the most exciting episode of Law and Order.

 

And as Steve points out, it becomes more complex when you acknowledge that there are ladies involved in the sex trade against their will, something we all I'd hope strive to beware of. But again the point is that it's these tragic stories the average person hears about.

 

To go back to the question, I think pointing out the work and blogs of some sex worker advocates could help. If of course as Phaedrus says the person is willing to actually pursue the knowledge.

[Midnite-Energies 110563]

There are so much ignorance, so many limiting beliefs and biases floating about society that sex work is an easy target. People making judgements that no one would ever do this willingly or with enjoyment because of the way it's portrayed and the way we have been brought up to view it. There has definitely been a shift to presenting it more openly and honestly as real and legitimate work, chosen by those who do it. As has been mentioned, read some of the sites designed to positively promote sex work, the blogs that speak about it honestly and the ladies who chose to be in it. THOSE are the views that should have the most impact on how the industry should be viewed not those who chose to react from a place of ignorance.

 

If you step back and look at it as work and then step further back and look at work in big picture terms, there are those jobs that people would and wouldn't do. That's the thing about work, if everyone was geared to only do prestigious high paying jobs or only financial or only retail, there would be a whole failure in society. There are jobs for everyone and it takes many different people to make society work effectively. Sex work is included in this. Some people want to do it and some don't. Those who do, should be allowed to just as those who wish to enjoy that, should be permitted to. Just as those who chose to be garbage men or fish cleaners or bankers or lawyers should be free to do that and people free to chose to enjoy what is being offered. If people could simply look at many things with a different perspective and not attached personal "crap" to it, we would all be living in a much better world. Thankfully, there is at least a bigger stream of varying perspectives than there used to be.

[mrgreen760 37785]

Clearly, like any gig not everyone loves what they do to provide a living for themselves. And clearly like any gig some are better suited to it than others. I don't judge people for their choices.

 

Peace

MG

[Taffer 2280]

Interesting responses so far. Suppose it's time to interject my own thoughts.

In my experience, it seems as though sex work gets a particularly large amount of limelight in regards to arguments about financial destitution.

Perhaps this might have something to do with the fact that society has only recently started to recognize that women also have a sexuality, and that it isn't something to be shamed.

 

Some people also seem to get hung up on the idea that a service provider is selling their body, but I don't think that's entirely fair. How boring/potentially terrifying would it be if an sp just laid there motionless rather than trying to provide a tailored experience for the client.

As much as I understand that sex work isn't something to be ashamed of, I sometimes find myself getting hung up on it as well. I'm not even sure if it's societal conditioning, or perhaps even something biological like an innate male protective instinct towards women.

 

There just so happens to be a woman advertising in my area at the moment, and she admits in her ad that she has never done this before, that she is embarrassed, and that she is only doing it to care for her children, and that capitalism is the root of all evil...

Of course this could all be a clever ploy, but it's interesting to analyze the thoughts that go through my head when considering if I'd like to spend some time with her.

 

My first thoughts are that I could just go in with no requests other than her company, and just keep my desires to myself, but this just doesn't make any rational sense when I think about it logically.

If I'd only be willing to dole out 20-40$ to a homeless guy on the street, who is obviously suffering far more than a woman who still has a home and her kids, why in the world would I be so charitable just because she is a woman?

 

It seems pretty unfair to the homeless guy. I have to admit to myself that these are all just rationalizations. The reality is that I find this woman sexually attractive, and if I did meet with her I'd end up trying to convince her that there is nothing to be embarrassed about her choice of trade, and I'd probably end up suggesting something fun that we could do together aside from friendly conversation.

 

In other words I am full of crap, and if this woman is lying about this I am playing right into her hands. She must know that even saying words like that is going to scare people off who are reluctant to feel like they are taking advantage of someone. I don't think I could support that either way, I'd throw her 40$ if she were pan handling on the street, but charity is only charity when nothing is expected in return, not even polite conversation.

[Guest Prufrock Cummings]

Thank you to the OP for an interesting topic.

 

There is a history to be considered in this question of "desperation" by the OP.

 

Flash back to the Wild West and the saloons with brothels. Smelly Cowboys and bandits jumping on ladies of the night, and no protection physically (violence) or with respect to STD protection.

 

Flash forward to the street walkers of London in the late 1800's (think Jack the Ripper) or those of North America in the 50's 60's and 70's when there was an abundance of serial killers (whether related to sex trade or not)

 

Yes, I could see a stigmatism of "desperation driving me to it" back then, but today we are talking about women (at least in most part here on Lyla) who are business women who have websites, pay for advertising and spend time emailing and conversing with clients and building up a clientele of loyal regular clients, rather than days of old, where desperation meant walking up to a stranger in a car and saying "hey baby...".

 

I can't speak for any of the women here, but when I read their posts talking about what they love in the industry (along with what they dislike...wash up guys, lol), and how they love the pleasure that they provide to us the client, then I can't believe that everyone is in this solely for desperation.

 

Otherwise they wouldn't hang around so long and continue their businesses.

[Mikeyboy 27134]

There are many reasons for the stigma to persist as have been mentioned here several times. The truth of the matter is that there are many reasons that ladies get into this profession. Sometimes it really is a lack of any other options. Here is a quote from a bp ad that is currently running in Halifax:

 

"ive never done this before and its quit emberassing for me . Im clean , dont drink , dont smoke or do drugs . Im like the girl next door !! Pretty girl with nice curves big boobs !

Unfortunately with this world it revolves money .. which is the root of all evil . And i cant let my kids suffer ! "

 

I am not posting this to try to shame her here. I have a lot respect for people who will do whatever it takes to care for their kids. I'm just pointing out that the industry isn't always as rosy as we like to think. This person is simply being honest about it.

 

That being said, when I started following this site, many of my own preconceived notions were broken. I started reading posts from highly intelligent, often well educated ladies who seemed to be here because they loved the work and the freedoms it gave them. This certainly didn't fit the stereotype. This is the end of the business that many don't see or often even realize exists. One big reason for that?.... Most of us gents are only willing or able to go so far to explain it to them. I've caught myself arguing a bit too hard with acquaintances over some stereotypical ideas they had. I stopped myself, added the words "or so I've read..." to the thought and moved on. My own need for discretion only allows me to go so far I'm very sorry to say.

 

When you deal in an industry where secrecy and discretion are so important, outsiders are left relying on the only sources of information they actually do get: Movies, TV, News, etc. We all know how unbiased those sources are.

[fortunateone 156618]

is she being honest tho? i used to see over a long period of time, ads by an established sp who claimed, in the ads 'boyfriend is out of town, & i want to play" or 'in town for business, ' etc.

 

Sps are like any other workers, we work to pay our bills & hopefully have savings for times we can't work, or savings for long term goals or whatever. If that makes sps 'desperate' when people who are mechanics, health care workers or teachers aren't 'desperate' when in fact we are all doing the same thing, working for our own reasons in order to pay bills.

[Taffer 2280]

There are many reasons for the stigma to persist as have been mentioned here several times. The truth of the matter is that there are many reasons that ladies get into this profession. Sometimes it really is a lack of any other options. Here is a quote from a bp ad that is currently running in Halifax:

 

"ive never done this before and its quit emberassing for me . Im clean , dont drink , dont smoke or do drugs . Im like the girl next door !! Pretty girl with nice curves big boobs !

Unfortunately with this world it revolves money .. which is the root of all evil . And i cant let my kids suffer ! "

 

I am not posting this to try to shame her here. I have a lot respect for people who will do whatever it takes to care for their kids. I'm just pointing out that the industry isn't always as rosy as we like to think. This person is simply being honest about it.

 

That being said, when I started following this site, many of my own preconceived notions were broken. I started reading posts from highly intelligent, often well educated ladies who seemed to be here because they loved the work and the freedoms it gave them. This certainly didn't fit the stereotype. This is the end of the business that many don't see or often even realize exists. One big reason for that?.... Most of us gents are only willing or able to go so far to explain it to them. I've caught myself arguing a bit too hard with acquaintances over some stereotypical ideas they had. I stopped myself, added the words "or so I've read..." to the thought and moved on. My own need for discretion only allows me to go so far I'm very sorry to say.

 

When you deal in an industry where secrecy and discretion are so important, outsiders are left relying on the only sources of information they actually do get: Movies, TV, News, etc. We all know how unbiased those sources are.

 

On the one hand that could bring in guys who feel they are being charitable, on the other hand it can turn a lot of guys off who don't want to feel like she isn't really into it, and just needs the money.

[Bully 383]

There probably are as many reasons as there are Ladies working. My thoughts are those are her reasons and if she wishes to share them with you then that is her choice. Being allowed into personal details can add to a session.As long as the 2 parties are mutually satisfied then fine. My only concern would be if the Lady is being coerced, against her freedom to choose. Otherwise, be thankful the Ladies are sharing themselves and that appreciation is shown as well as non judgement. It takes two, (well, sometimes more ;)) for a session, and haven't seen guns pointed at the clients heads.

[Nicolette Vaughn 294340]

I'm going to try and keep my personal biases out of this for now. I'd appreciate some feedback on a topic that concerns me.

 

How would you (sp or non sp) address the desperation argument? Those who believe that no one would ever turn to sex work (let alone enjoy it), unless they are desperate?

 

I have met many women in this business from all walks of life. One who is long gone was a teacher whose husband had died, had no life insurance with 2 young kids and her house about to go into foreclosure. Yes, it may be a desperate attempt for immediate cash but also no one story or background is the same. And she was very successful in this line of work for the amount of time she was involved in it.

 

Some people who have entered this business have also had past or current careers and do this to add to their existing income. It's a nice bonus. However this doesn't mean because they are desperate for cash and even if they were, it doesn't mean that they don't enjoy it.

 

A lot of women I have known turned this into a successful side business and do enjoy it. Some have turned it into a full time profession.

 

People prostitute themselves in many ways just like the government workers I see going to work everyday pushing papers. No offense to government workers but they will leave with a pension etc. That's what they do and if that's what they enjoy doing, more power to them. This is what I do.

 

I've really stopped justifying what I do for a living because what we see in the media and the stigma of prostitution will always be there. I know who I am and if people want to judge me, go ahead. If I really disliked what I did, I wouldn't have spent the amount of time I have here building my business with great repeat clients. I've treated it like a business and not some sort of fly by night attraction where I come in and out when I need a jumpstart flow of cash.

[lee101xxx44 519]

I think many people do jobs in multiple sectors because they are desperate for a pay-cheque. If one does any job that they do not particularly like because they "need to put food on the table", there is an element of desperation involved. I know many people who work (some in "prestigious" jobs) that they dislike because it is just a way to make money. They may rather do something else but it doesn't pay as well, or have benefits or offer them the flexible hours they need to make things work. They are stuck in the job, experiencing felt despiration. If one does work (regardless of sector) that they enjoy; providing both extrinsic and intrinsic benefits then they are blessed!

[nntsci 11076]

I know a lady who told me she had a choice of working full time as a waitress or having sex 3 or 4 times a week for about the same amount of money... full time work would have made it difficult to go to school, so she choose escorting for a very pragmatic reason. It gave her the free time she needed to study. Really, who is being exploited... the lady who has sex 4 times a week or the waitress who slaves her ass off all week for minimum wages.

[Guest Prufrock Cummings]

I know a lady who told me she had a choice of working full time as a waitress or having sex 3 or 4 times a week for about the same amount of money... full time work would have made it difficult to go to school, so she choose escorting for a very pragmatic reason. It gave her the free time she needed to study. Really, who is being exploited... the lady who has sex 4 times a week or the waitress who slaves her ass off all week for minimum wages.

 

I kind of feel bad for the waitress, she probably doesn't have time to do it 4 times a week in her private life because she is overworked and tired.

[WhereIRoam 21825]

I don't think any little girl (or boy) grows up thinking that being a Provider is what they want to do later in life. We are raised with thoughts against it, thinking it is a "bad thing". Unless your family is wealthy we are all desperate for money when we are young adults or may later become financially desperate in a given circumstance. That I have seen, some start as they do see it as a quick way to make money and realize they are good at it and can handle the difficulties that come along with it so they stay. Some think it's what they want to do but quickly realize it's just not for them for one reason or another but stay anyways.

 

Of their own free will, how or why one would choose to become a Provider is not as relevant as it is being happy if you are doing it and that this should be the greatest reason why one would continue to do so. That being said, people have different ideas of what makes them happy. I would think that one would have to be emotionally and psychologically geared to able to do such, handle the "self" issues that come with it. I would also think that these "self" issues are or can be just as potentially dangerous than client issues most Providers encounter in this profession, maybe even more so. It is a demanding task I'm sure and in so many ways that I, as a Punter, will probably never fully understand.

 

WIR