opting for no extras

[ottawaadventurer 5114]

So, I was talking with a friend who told me that sometimes he goes to places discussed on this board and every now and again, opts for no extras. I read somewhere in a thread that the 'door charges' usually go to the house and that the MPs make their money through tips. If this is the case, does that mean that when someone refuses 'extras', the MP makes no money at all for that hour?

 

I ask because I would never want to take someone's time if they were not going to be paid for their time... does refusing extras actually mean that?

 

Do any of the MPs that work in spas have any comment on that?

 

I don't think this has been discussed elsewhere - if so, apologies in advance.

[Megan'sTouch 23875]

Yes, in many places that's exactly what it means.

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[ottawaadventurer 5114]

wow. i should let my friend know... i am sure he has no idea.

[harmony-bc 319]

I have worked in quite a few place, where if the gentleman refuses extras, not only do you not make any money, but you also have to tip the manager 20. The only place where I didn't have to tip if I made no money was the swedish touch. Most parlors the manager also makes her money off your tips. I don't know how its done all over Canada, but in Vancouver, this is the way. Thank you Universe for allowing me to being independent, and never having to pay to massage someone again, lol

[waterat 20911]

Being a bit of a newbie to this I don't know all the arrangements but one spa I visited had their MP only compensated through tips, according to the girl I saw. I was embarrassed that she had to explain this to me!

I suppose having someone manage the bookings and provide the location has its benefits but basically I would prefer to visit independent MPs.

[The General 11309]

Swedish Touch, that brings back fond memories, but that is many years ago, and I would think it has probably changed over the years.

 

I remember one time, can recall why I didn't ask, but the lady didn't even ask if I wanted extras and I guess I was nervous, in the end, all it ended up being was a massage. Can't remember if I gave anything extra, but likely not much, if at all.

 

Today, it is about the tip for the extras, some places are reasonable, a few aren't. My recollection was that Swedish Touch was pretty high end, but that was like 25 years ago.

 

No question, guys should be prepared to tip at these places.

[passionseeker2010 112]

I have not opted for extras on one occassion but I still left a tip after my massage. Also, I believe this person owned the place. I booked blind and wasn't at all into the way the provider looked.... And I don't imagine I would be alone here. If I am not attracted, I will not be aroused. When you book blind this is a chance you take. I did really enjoy my massage and left what I considered a generous tip.

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[Maverick 2873]

If you are not looking to get any extras, I would suggest asking the massage provider how much of her tip she has to give to the parlor (if any) so that you have a good idea of how much to tip (if you want to tip). Realize that even if you tip $50 (with $20 going to the parlor), that's $30 for an hour of work, significantly higher than minimum wage.

 

Not that I'm an advocate of being frugal, and I'd never be able to resist the extras myself anyway. Definitely do talk to your friend about this.

 

Edit: If you don't want any extras you should probably go to a non-erotic massage parlor/provider. I was referring to situations as mentioned above where you "book blind" and do end up not wanting the extras.

[geezer 170]

I've been visiting Mps here in ottawa for more than 12 years and I know of not one place where the manager gets all of the door fee. In fact most places pay between 20% and 50% to the girls. I've visited a couple where the girl told me she gets nothing when I knew for a fact she did. Most of the time she did not work there long.

 

This may not be the case in all places but it is certainly has been my expirence. But I certainly cannot speak for a certain Vanier place that for some unknown reason is still in business after what seems like 20 years.

[passionseeker2010 112]

Edit: If you don't want any extras you should probably go to a non-erotic massage parlor/provider. I was referring to situations as mentioned above where you "book blind" and do end up not wanting the extras.

 

I don't think anyone books at an erotic massage parlour and doesn't intend to have extras. In my case it was my first time at a new spot that I wasn't 100% sure even did extras. Given the situation I opted to not ask or suggest extras and the MP seemed perfectly content with that. I also left a generous tip. This is not an issue of money for me as I am willing to pay to have a great experience and any MP who I have seen will vouche for that. But if I am not remotely attracted to an MP, I don't have an interest in a "happy ending". Unfortunately, sometimes you don't know that until you show up.

 

As for MP's never getting part of the door fee, I disagree with the previous post. Most MP's do NOT see any of the door fee. In some cases if they end up doing a massage with no extras they may get a small portion, but they really make their money on the extras. This is why the one and only time I had a massage at an erotic massage parlour without extras I was sure to tip generously anyway.

 

PS2010

[Boomer 33202]

It seems to me if you know before hand that you just want to have a nice relaxation massage and are not really interested in any extras there are a number of woman who will accomodate you. Their price already reflects this type of service. It should be noted most are independant and don't have to cover the door fee with the owner.

[waterat 20911]

....if you know before hand that you just want to have a nice relaxation massage and are not really interested in any extras....

 

I know now to always be prepared to opt for extras as I'm very capable of changing my mind!!

[Tiffany Amber 7031]

Ive worked in a few Mp's in Ottawa over the past 5 yrs and "door fee" does go to the owner. I worked at one place and she did give me $20 if I did a massage with no extras. But for the most part, they do not believe that you did a massage with no extras.

 

Additional Comments:

If you are not looking to get any extras, I would suggest asking the massage provider how much of her tip she has to give to the parlor (if any) so that you have a good idea of how much to tip (if you want to tip). Realize that even if you tip $50 (with $20 going to the parlor), that's $30 for an hour of work, significantly higher than minimum wage.

 

Not that I'm an advocate of being frugal, and I'd never be able to resist the extras myself anyway. Definitely do talk to your friend about this.

 

Edit: If you don't want any extras you should probably go to a non-erotic massage parlor/provider. I was referring to situations as mentioned above where you "book blind" and do end up not wanting the extras.

 

 

I agree $30 is much higher than minimum wage, but when you work at a MP, you DO NOT get paid by the hour. If its a dead day and you were there for 8 hours and did not see any one, then you go home with no money. Its not like a regular job, you dont get a weekly pay. So $30 is not alot of money for us.

 

If you know the place offers only erotic or sensual massages and you not intersted in the erotic part of it, why go? Find a regular MP.

[Maverick 2873]

I agree $30 is much higher than minimum wage, but when you work at a MP, you DO NOT get paid by the hour. If its a dead day and you were there for 8 hours and did not see any one, then you go home with no money. Its not like a regular job, you dont get a weekly pay. So $30 is not alot of money for us.

 

Just to play devil's advocate, service staff like waitresses make below minimum wage without tips, and if there's no business there's not much money. So it's something one has to be aware of going into their job, be it waitressing or massaging.

[passionseeker2010 112]

If the friend in question is going to sensual massage places intentionally seeking no extras then he should be told to go elsewhere for that service. However if the friend is going with the intent of a sensual massage and is not satisfied with the provider for whatever reason I think he is well within his right to opt out of extras while leaving a reasonable tip for massage services.

 

However comparing a waitress and a girl who does sensual massage I think is unfair. These girls work hard, take risks, expose themselves to potential legal issues etc all for our benefit. Even insinuating that this is comparable to a minimum wage job is insulting IMHO.

 

PS2010

[slurp 7020]

If your friend wants no extras he would be doing himself and the providers a favour by going to an RMT place like Unicorn Spa which has a thread in this section. The girls there are just as pretty as any other place and they make their money on the rub.

 

Only once have I gone to a place that offered extras and turned them down. It is a well known girl who I had serious hots for and couldn't get anymore than an HJ. But she did a wonderful massage so I went to see her anyway. Rather than subject her to my yearnings for more than she wanted to provide, I asked that she just massage for the whole hour. She pouted a bit but when I tipped her the same as I would have had I taken the HJ she was more than happy.

 

If your pal wants to go to a place that provides extras, as opposed to an RMT, if he were to tip as if he had taken the lowest priced extra it should be no problem.

[Winnipegcub 21293]

I have been for many massages over the years but all in 'simply' therapeutic establishments. Haven't yet had an erotic massage with an MP. However, in all cases I have tipped. It is a service like getting a haircut. I tip in all cases. So if in an erotic establishment and I opt for no extras - I would still tip. I received a service! Am I way off base? WC

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[Tiffany Amber 7031]

Just to play devil's advocate, service staff like waitresses make below minimum wage without tips, and if there's no business there's not much money. So it's something one has to be aware of going into their job, be it waitressing or massaging.

 

If Iam not mistaken, there is a law of paying minum wage, which is $10.50/hr in Ontario. So they do get a pay check at the end of the week.

 

Dont see how you can compare a waitress and a MA. Its two total different worlds. A waitress isnt taking any chances, be it leagally or her own saftey, an MA is. Yes we all choose our jobs, but the point of this thread was asking if the girls get money if the client does not tip. The answer is most of the time they do not or recieve very little.

[Maverick 2873]

If Iam not mistaken, there is a law of paying minum wage, which is $10.50/hr in Ontario. So they do get a pay check at the end of the week.

 

There are special labor laws for restaurant service-work that allows establishments to pay less than minimum wage, because once you include tips waitresses make more than minimum wage; and in our society people tend to tip because they feel obliged rather than as an actual response to the quality of the service (when I go out to eat with friends they get upset at me when I tip less than 15% even though I feel completely justified in doing so.)

 

Dont see how you can compare a waitress and a MA. Its two total different worlds. A waitress isnt taking any chances, be it leagally or her own saftey, an MA is. Yes we all choose our jobs, but the point of this thread was asking if the girls get money if the client does not tip. The answer is most of the time they do not or recieve very little.

 

That said, you are right, and we are de-railing the original purpose of the thread. If you want to continue the discussion I will gladly respond to a PM. To clarify my position, when getting an erotic massage, you should tip (unless the service is particularly sub-par) when not opting for any extras, and tips are always appreciated even if you do opt for extras.

 

I just feel like sometimes we lose sight of the fact that some people are financially challenged and just talk about throwing money left and right. I don't mean to come off as frugal, because I would definitely not take advantage of a woman working at a massage parlor or in any other environment, but I am also careful with my money and wish to get good value. I apologize if I came off as insensitive, I have a great respect for everyone in the industry and everyone here on cerb.

[Andee 220524]

If you are looking for a massage without extras, then why not go and see a Registered Massage Therapist.

 

I would think that opting to seeing an MA implies you would be looking for extras. That is how the ladies make their money.

[waterrat 1261]

There are special labor laws for restaurant service-work that allows establishments to pay less than minimum wage, because once you include tips waitresses make more than minimum wage; and in our society people tend to tip because they feel obliged rather than as an actual response to the quality of the service (when I go out to eat with friends they get upset at me when I tip less than 15% even though I feel completely justified in doing so.)

 

Not to hijack this thread but a growing trend is that tips in restaurants are not just being shared (with the buss boy, bar tender and dishwasher) but the house is taking a cut of the tips to cover their costs. Credit card issuers may take the first 3 to 5%. I now ask in advance how it works and if the house takes a cut I pay the tip in cash.

[Megan'sTouch 23875]

Maverick - I found it offensive that you compared massage to a minimum wage job. They are absolutely not comparable! Massage is much riskier than minimum wage jobs, and there are a couple other points to consider:

 

-We also don't get any of the protections offered to minimum wage workers under the Employment Standards in Ontario.

-We also take financial risks, as most massage providers invest in their business for supplies (even if they work for a studio) and income is not guaranteed.

-There is no pay if we find ourselves sick or disabled and unable to work.

-We take the risk that our friends, family, and community will find out what we do, and future employment could be at risk if it's discovered we work in the sex industry.

-We take legal risks. We all know about the massage parlour bust in Gatineau and that the city gives out fines to anyone operating a massage parlour without a license, including to independents!

-Massage providers work harder than most minimum wage jobs. I've done several jobs, and massage is hard work! The minimum wage jobs I did when I was young were easy, but I put MY ALL into my massages.

-There is also "downtime" to consider. We wash towels, clean, solicit business or deal with our managers, makeup, hair, respond to phone calls and emails, etc. We don't get paid for this time. Also, at a parlour, a woman may show up for an 8-hour shift and only see one client that whole time. Even if she makes $160 for that hour, it still only works out to $20 for the time she was there. Minimum wage workers are paid for every hour they are at work and that is required by law, even if there is downtime where there is no work.

 

The high pay of massage providers is well-deserved.

 

Also to add, I don't like how people can sometimes assume that the only other option to work for sex workers is minimum wage. I have a university degree and I have a unique skill that I teach. I work at one of the universities as a research assistant, and I also teach. I make $30-40/hour depending on the task. Many sex workers have the education and skills necessary to have work outside of the sex industry that is considerably above minimum wage.

[ottawaadventurer 5114]

Thanks everyone, for your responses. My friend is not on CERB, but I have relayed the information to him. To clarify, he doesn't go to MPs specifically knowing he isn't interested in the "extras" - he just finds that sometimes he isn't interested. We were both a little surprised at the implications of not leaving a tip and only paying the door charge. So, he (and I) will now know... I, for one, don't go to an MP unless I can see in advance who I will be seeing (or based on CERB recs) so I have never refused anything.. :-)

 

Again, thanks for everything - and thanks to all the amazing providers here in Ottawa who took the time to respond, either on the board or through PMs.

 

Have a great day!

[docottawa 541]

This has been an informative exercise. Thanks to Ottawa Adventurer for opening the dialogue. Being quite new to this whole business I wondered about this situation, myself. I now have a better understanding of how the economics of the trade work.

[passionseeker2010 112]

I can't believe we are even having a conversation comparing MA's to minimum wage workers and justifying not tipping a waiter/waitress. Maverick maybe you have never worked in the service industry, but your comments are disrespectful to those who do.

 

Bottom line is that if you don't have the money to tip an MA you shouldn't visit an MA. Same as if you don't have the money to tip a server at a bar or restaurant, you shouldn't eat or drink at that bar or restaurant.

 

Many of the MA's I have visited are beautiful, smart, intelligent women who are doing this to put themselves through school, support their family etc. Many of them expose themselves to great risks and work long hours just for the chance that they will make money. I don't think any of them would do what they do if it paid minimum wage. I learned a while ago to never judge a persons reasons for what they do until you have walked a mile in their shoes. You would be SHOCKED to find out some of the history of some of the MA's in this town.

 

As for hospitality workers, there are cases where you receive bad service and you don't feel a tip is justified. In those cases, put yourself in the position of the server. Everyone is entitled to a bad day, and these people deal with the public day in and day out. Many of the people they deal with are drunk and rude. These people survive on tips, and that is their main source of income. When you directly impact a persons ability to make money and support themselves I would expect them to be in a bad mood and not provide the next person great service. If you get bad service it is entirely possible that the person before you didn't tip appropriately and put the person in a foul mood. Rather than continuing that why not provide an appropriate tip, or even a generous tip and see if that turns the persons mood around. It usually works for me!

 

Bottom line, dining at restaurants, drinking at bars, and visiting MA's are all part of my lifestyle that I consider to be a premium, luxury service. If I didn't have the money for an appropriate tip in any of these cases, I wouldn't seek out any of these services. I have been lucky enough to find myself in a good financial situation, but my mamma always taught me to respect and value other people and don't assume anything about people because of the career they choose.

 

SP2010