Are you Pro Choice?

[Mister T 45020]

Who is determining the foetus' rights? The foetus is part of the woman, not an individual. When you are born, full term, premature, whatever gestation, you become a legal person wiith full protection under the Charter. The foetus has no Charter rights.

Posted via Mobile Device

 

Being pro-choice myself, i recognize that this topic is still a hot one, and complex. Fetal rights are still a hot debate among certain circles and will certainly creep back to Parliament. Saying that foetuses are not protected may not be quite exact. There are exceptions from a legal standpoint (as far as i understand the law). The criminal code, for example, addresses crimes against a person. It defines a person as being one from birth (eg the baby is out and breathes on it's own), and makes it still a crime to cause death to an unborn child (thus not a "person" yet), except in cases of abortion - the 20weeks cited. Another example is that An unborn child has inheritance rigths protected, on the day of birth.

 

In the case of abortions, it's been decriminalised years ago and parameters were set as a "line in the sand" had to be set.

 

All in all, this is an issue that is society driven, and our enlightened politicians will make acts surrounding these kinds of issues...

[Mister T 45020]

Good addition, WIT. Yes, let's get back to the topic at hand...

[SamanthaEvans 166766]

This isn't a debate that I want to wade into very far, but I do want to say a couple of things.

 

I don't want anyone ever to need to have an abortion. To me, the need for one is a decisive indication that many things have gone terribly, sadly wrong. Rape; incest; sexual abuse; the lack of safe, reliable and readily-available birth control methods; the lack of education about sex and reproduction; the lack of genuine resources for pregnant women to ensure that they can raise children safely, appropriately and without stigma; the reluctance of courts to ensure that parents must pay appropriate, ongoing child support; the absence of a guaranteed annual income to keep single parents above the poverty line--these things all contribute to women's need for abortion. All are controversial in one way or another.

 

When women want to have children and are able to welcome pregnancy and motherhood, they have the best outcomes, not only for themselves, but for their children. Mothers who have not been traumatized and victimized--who are able to make real choices about having children--are usually able to fight like hell to ensure that their kids have the best chance of living a full, healthy, productive life.

 

Wanted children who are not forced to grow up in poverty or under abuse make the world a better place. This insight is what led Dr. Henry Morgentaler to provide abortions to women in Canada. Dr. Morgentaler survived Auschwitz. From his experience there he reasoned that children who were wanted and have been loved by their mothers do not grow up to build places like Auschwitz. I think he was right.

 

Economists have observed for some time, now, that when safe abortions are available to women, crime rates drop significantly, sometimes dramatically. In the US, states with the highest abortion rates in the 1970s experienced the greatest reduction in crime in the 1990s. States with low abortion rates had smaller crime reduction rates. This change in crime rates exists even when a state's number of police, level of incarceration and economic situation are taken into account. In New York City, where the state had been an early adopter of legalized abortion, and which had high abortion rates, crime has dropped about 30% since 1985.

 

I don't advocate for women's right to choose based on the reduction of crime--that's an unintended consequence, as far as I'm concerned. At the same time, the link between allowing women to make the heart-breaking choice to terminate pregnancies and general societal well-being isn't something we can dismiss out of hand. I go back to Dr. Morgentaler: when mothers want to have children and can provide for them, everyone benefits.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

The OP asked for our thoughts (And it is clear that she meant both pro-choice as well as pro-life)

 

As I have mentioned, I (and my family) have long been strong advocate of women's rights as well as human rights. So, Yes I am pro-choice but as I mentioned not unconditionaly. I am not however at all clear at some of the posts made in this thread and this is my question.

 

Abortion should be allowed. Agreed. It is a woman's body and choice. I agreed more (but in my view up to a point). It is a woman's right to choose. Very much agreed (again in my view up to a point). Can I just ask this question. Are you pro-choice unconditionally??Should abortion be permitted limitless with NO time limit. Should a bady be aborted up to a few hours or a few days before being born for no reason other than unwanted pregnancy???.

 

PS - I am asking this question from moral point of view and not legal point of view.

[SamanthaEvans 166766]

Secret Admirer, I'm content with things as they are, now. A woman can have an abortion in Canada up to 20 weeks' gestation. After that, there must be compelling medical reasons for a doctor to perform an abortion, such as the mother's life being at risk if the pregnancy continues. I such cases, morality and medicine should not be placed in conflict.

 

Let's not raise the specter of women and/or doctors blithely terminating pregnancies within days of the expected birth of the baby. It's not helpful, it's not legal now, no one is proposing it and, in the end, it only serves to vilify women by portraying us as capricious, irresponsible and unable to consider the meaning and consequences of the choices we make.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

I was not aware that a woman can have abortion up to 20 weeks and after only with compelling medical reasons (which proves I am not a lawyer lol). I am content to read that though. Those who wish to respond to my earlier question and not post publically can of course PM me.

[JuliasUndies 7288]

I think this thread is good. Good because of the relations that was started between choices of a woman and her body and how it relates to the sex industry.

Personally, I will do whatever I want to my body, in turn do whatever you wish with yours.

No, I would not have an abortion, I believe in taking responsibilities for my actions.

I will say that, being in this industry, girls get very personal and share very personal information, because, we know and understand each other more so than someone who is not in this industry. I have never herd of a woman getting pregnant with a clients baby.

I also know many girls that are not in the industry that are complete flat out sluts, that will have sex with many men, protection or not. From my experience, These woman have a much higher rate for abortions. I hear time and again that they were drunk..and..blah blah blah. Then running to the clinic for an abortion a few weeks later.

But really, how many times can you get drunk, get pregnant, get an abortion before you realize you need an IUD, that is given free, at the abortion clinic. Woman should really learn to close their legs.

I don t think abortions should be confidential-if they are. There should be like a one time only abort-o-clinic.

Woman that have multi partners without protection, the sluts..have a lot more to worry about than getting pregnant.

I have slept with 5 men in my lifetime. I didn t use protection for every man and I contracted Chlamydia, then gave it to my fiance. I am lucky because medication cleared up my sloppy-sex-disease with two weeks of meds. What if i contracted HIV or herpes or gonorrhea or warts or something like that? Pregnant? Nah, that s the last thing I would be worried about.

 

 

 

Additional Comments:

Megan, I NEVER would insinuate something like you claim. You should respect my decisions I make with my body.

I didn t say any holy-ring about sexual partners. I was stating that I slept with 5 men, and didn t protect myself and contracted a disease..that easy. I hardly doubt bragging about getting a disease is holy-ring about anything. 1 in 5, that s all it took to get a disease. So the last thing I am worried about is getting pregnant, more worried about getting a disease considering I slept with 5 men.(that s a 20% chance) It took me 1000 times to have unprotected sex to get pregnant.

I am being honest here. It doesn t matter what anyone else does with their body and no one should care how little or many partners ive had.

Not to mention, because you totally read my post wrong, you dropped my reputation points from 27 to 9. that s a tad bit uncalled for,

Maybe if I had said something like I ONLY slept with..geesh.. this is my body and I am pro-choice to do whatever you want with yours, don t judge me about my decisions, I thought this post was all about respecting one s decisions and thoughts on them..not for you to "not like" my thoughts, heck, you asked for them..NOT COOL

[Luscious Laurel 205]

Pro Choice.

 

Anti-abortionists spend a lot of time highlighting late term abortions. These are absolutely awful to endure and generally don't happen unless there is an emergency.

 

A late term abortion must be delivered the same as a full term child. Pretty crappy.

 

Most abortions are performed very early first trimester.

 

I could not carry a child full term now. I would have to abort. I would not abort if I was younger.

 

Choice is important.

[JuliasUndies 7288]

I find it entertaining yet confusing that you don't like my post girls.

This Thread asked what my thoughts were about choices regarding the woman body.

And,, I gave my really personal thoughts as asked for and added myself as personal example about how getting pregnant would be less serious than contracting an STD, like I have. The number of sexual partners I gave was to validate my statement, that is all.

I don't think it's fair or nice that you accuse me of being "holier than thou" because I shared a personal account of the issue.

Go ahead and pull down my reputation points if I break the rules or personally insult someone here, but don't ask for my opinion, then pull down my points because of my personal choices and claiming I am being "holier than thou" because of the amount of men I have had unprotected sex with.

That's hypocritical, makes no sense and shows little class. My feelings are hurt, knowing that this forum has failed me, since I was under the impression that people were able to express their own personal views, especially when asked, especially on a site dedicated to the sexual industry. No one should have to worry about stating a personal fact like I have. If I slept with 5000 men without protection, would that have been better.

[cuteFrenchy 403]

Julia, I think that you will find the CERB community is very friendly and open to various views concerning subjects. It is great that you voiced your opinion and that you shared personal information. Hopefully you will continue to share.

 

I would like to point out two things that are mentioned in your post, that many members of this community would find offensive.

 

You mention

(i) Woman should really learn to close their legs.

and

(ii) Woman that have multi partners without protection, the sluts.

 

I suggest that you not use the word "slut" in a derogatory way. It is true that unprotected sex is very dangerous behaviour and that we should inform others of the dangers of this behaviour. However, in the end, it is a choice that each person must make before having sex. We should all strive to be non-judgmental.

 

 

 

 

 

I think this thread is good. Good because of the relations that was started between choices of a woman and her body and how it relates to the sex industry.

Personally, I will do whatever I want to my body, in turn do whatever you wish with yours.

No, I would not have an abortion, I believe in taking responsibilities for my actions.

I will say that, being in this industry, girls get very personal and share very personal information, because, we know and understand each other more so than someone who is not in this industry. I have never herd of a woman getting pregnant with a clients baby.

I also know many girls that are not in the industry that are complete flat out sluts, that will have sex with many men, protection or not. From my experience, These woman have a much higher rate for abortions. I hear time and again that they were drunk..and..blah blah blah. Then running to the clinic for an abortion a few weeks later.

But really, how many times can you get drunk, get pregnant, get an abortion before you realize you need an IUD, that is given free, at the abortion clinic. Woman should really learn to close their legs.

I don t think abortions should be confidential-if they are. There should be like a one time only abort-o-clinic.

Woman that have multi partners without protection, the sluts..have a lot more to worry about than getting pregnant.

I have slept with 5 men in my lifetime. I didn t use protection for every man and I contracted Chlamydia, then gave it to my fiance. I am lucky because medication cleared up my sloppy-sex-disease with two weeks of meds. What if i contracted HIV or herpes or gonorrhea or warts or something like that? Pregnant? Nah, that s the last thing I would be worried about.

 

 

 

Additional Comments:

Megan, I NEVER would insinuate something like you claim. You should respect my decisions I make with my body.

I didn t say any holy-ring about sexual partners. I was stating that I slept with 5 men, and didn t protect myself and contracted a disease..that easy. I hardly doubt bragging about getting a disease is holy-ring about anything. 1 in 5, that s all it took to get a disease. So the last thing I am worried about is getting pregnant, more worried about getting a disease considering I slept with 5 men.(that s a 20% chance) It took me 1000 times to have unprotected sex to get pregnant.

I am being honest here. It doesn t matter what anyone else does with their body and no one should care how little or many partners ive had.

Not to mention, because you totally read my post wrong, you dropped my reputation points from 27 to 9. that s a tad bit uncalled for,

Maybe if I had said something like I ONLY slept with..geesh.. this is my body and I am pro-choice to do whatever you want with yours, don t judge me about my decisions, I thought this post was all about respecting one s decisions and thoughts on them..not for you to "not like" my thoughts, heck, you asked for them..NOT COOL

 

I find it entertaining yet confusing that you don't like my post girls.

This Thread asked what my thoughts were about choices regarding the woman body.

And,, I gave my really personal thoughts as asked for and added myself as personal example about how getting pregnant would be less serious than contracting an STD, like I have. The number of sexual partners I gave was to validate my statement, that is all.

I don't think it's fair or nice that you accuse me of being "holier than thou" because I shared a personal account of the issue.

Go ahead and pull down my reputation points if I break the rules or personally insult someone here, but don't ask for my opinion, then pull down my points because of my personal choices and claiming I am being "holier than thou" because of the amount of men I have had unprotected sex with.

That's hypocritical, makes no sense and shows little class. My feelings are hurt, knowing that this forum has failed me, since I was under the impression that people were able to express their own personal views, especially when asked, especially on a site dedicated to the sexual industry. No one should have to worry about stating a personal fact like I have. If I slept with 5000 men without protection, would that have been better.

[Kubrickfan 12836]

Discussions on a topic like this can get heated even if no harm was intended, and its usually not around here. If I get a critical (not necessarily a bad word, by the way) response to something I have stated I go back and try to politely clarify my point, apologize, or do nothing and let the point stand.

[Luscious Laurel 205]

Yes, these topics can get very passionate.

 

I had a friend who was always in love with someone and ending up pregnant. She had 5 abortions between the age of 17 and 21. She said to me once it was no big deal as she caught them very early.

 

I just thought she could've been more careful. She always believed the guy when he said he was infertile, or fixed, or whatever else they said

 

So, in a way I experienced Julia's frustration, and, I understand what she means in her story.

 

Well, the decision belonged to my friend and I am glad for our freedom to choose. She did grow up and go on to birth 3 lovely children...life goes on.

 

BTW all it took was 3 minutes without a condom with my second ever boyfriend and I ended up with something called trichomoniasis. Easy enough to fix but, Yuck! I learned quickly and never again went unprotected!

[JuliasUndies 7288]

Honestly,

Ya, I really do think woman that have multiple partners without protection are sluts and should close their legs. I will however retract the word since maybe it is like you say a derogatory word, and I really am not here to offend anyone. STD s aren't my personal preference and I really do think we should do whatever we want with our bodies, safely. I view abortion the same. If you do it, don't abuse it or your body.

 

I find in the adult industry, is the safest way to have sex.

 

Julia, I think that you will find the CERB community is very friendly and open to various views concerning subjects. It is great that you voiced your opinion and that you shared personal information. Hopefully you will continue to share.

 

I would like to point out two things that are mentioned in your post, that many members of this community would find offensive.

 

You mention

(i) Woman should really learn to close their legs.

and

(ii) Woman that have multi partners without protection, the sluts.

 

I suggest that you not use the word "slut" in a derogatory way. It is true that unprotected sex is very dangerous behaviour and that we should inform others of the dangers of this behaviour. However, in the end, it is a choice that each person must make before having sex. We should all strive to be non-judgmental.

[Megan'sTouch 23875]

Honestly,

Ya, I really do think woman that have multiple partners without protection are sluts and should close their legs. I will however retract the word since maybe it is like you say a derogatory word, and I really am not here to offend anyone. STD s aren't my personal preference and I really do think we should do whatever we want with our bodies, safely. I view abortion the same. If you do it, don't abuse it or your body.

 

I find in the adult industry, is the safest way to have sex.

What you consider abuse, isn't what another would consider to be abuse. Many people would say that prostitution is abuse of your body. I even remember learning at church that your body is the temple of the holy spirit, and masturbation is abuse of your body, the temple of God. It's your body and what you consider abuse is your choice to make alone!

 

It's not up to you to judge. If a woman (or man) wants to have numerous sexual partners with or without protection, that is their choice alone to make and it's not up to us to judge their choices. All we can do is educate people. Making a poor choice doesn't make you a morally inferior person. I've made bad choices in my past, we all have!

 

I also find it sexist that you're going after women to "shut their legs." It takes two to tango and men are just as responsible as women when sexual activity or a pregnancy occurs.

[JuliasUndies 7288]

You got it pontiac!!!

 

 

What you consider abuse' date=' isn't what another would consider to be abuse. Many people would say that prostitution is abuse of your body. I even remember learning at church that your body is the temple of the holy spirit, and masturbation is abuse of your body, the temple of God. It's your body and what you consider abuse is your choice to make alone!

 

It's not up to you to judge. If a woman (or man) wants to have numerous sexual partners with or without protection, that is their choice alone to make and it's not up to us to judge their choices. All we can do is educate people. Making a poor choice doesn't make you a morally inferior person. I've made bad choices in my past, we all have!

 

I also find it sexist that you're going after women to "shut their legs." It takes two to tango and men are just as responsible as women when sexual activity or a pregnancy occurs.[/quote']

[VedaSloan 119179]

Honestly,

Ya, I really do think woman that have multiple partners without protection are sluts and should close their legs. I will however retract the word since maybe it is like you say a derogatory word, and I really am not here to offend anyone. STD s aren't my personal preference and I really do think we should do whatever we want with our bodies, safely. I view abortion the same. If you do it, don't abuse it or your body.

 

I find in the adult industry, is the safest way to have sex.

 

First of all, the sexism is uncalled for. Second, do you think ANYONE's personal preference is to get an STD?

 

Thirdly, the safest way to have sex is to use protection, whether in the sex industry or not.

 

And for the record, I erroneously gave you rep points when I meant to take them away. As I said in my comment, your distaste for women who are sexually active is particularly offensive considering we sell sex for a living.

[JuliasUndies 7288]

First of all, the sexism is uncalled for. Second, do you think ANYONE's personal preference is to get an STD?

 

Thirdly, the safest way to have sex is to use protection, whether in the sex industry or not.

 

And for the record, I erroneously gave you rep points when I meant to take them away. As I said in my comment, your distaste for women who are sexually active is particularly offensive considering we sell sex for a living.

 

I really enjoy that we all have our own views on everything and yet keep things civil. Thanks for respecting my point of view. I do not view any girls in the industry as a slut because I think they are far from it.

Wikipedia

Although the ultimate origin of slut is unknown, it first appeared in Middle English in 1402 as slutte (AHD), with the meaning "a dirty, untidy, or slovenly woman."[2] Even earlier, Geoffrey Chaucer used the word sluttish (c.1386) to describe a slovenly man; however, later uses appear almost exclusively associated with women.[2] The modern sense of "a sexually promiscuous woman" dates to at least 1450.[

]

 

The word slut really doesn t have to do with offending woman that sleep with men for money, these are just words, and we really shouldn t be offended, I think girls that have unprotected sex with numerous men are sluts, so what! A lot of my acquaintances outright call themselves a whore and we have a good time laughing about it. What might offend you, might not offend another. I would never single someone out and refer to them by names, like S--T, that s mean, rude and uncalled for, especially on this site and you will never see me do that.

This Thread was originally made about thoughts on abortion, which I gave. If you feel you would like to further discuss this please feel free to PM me, because this was a good thread about a serious issue, I check back ever so often to see all the replies and feelings and now all im getting is this stuff on sluts. That s an odd connection and now I am offended, because I have known girls to abortions that were not sluts..

 

Let's get back to the original issue please..

[VedaSloan 119179]

I really enjoy that we all have our own views on everything and yet keep things civil. Thanks for respecting my point of view. I do not view any girls in the industry as a slut because I think they are far from it.

Wikipedia

Although the ultimate origin of slut is unknown, it first appeared in Middle English in 1402 as slutte (AHD), with the meaning "a dirty, untidy, or slovenly woman."[2] Even earlier, Geoffrey Chaucer used the word sluttish (c.1386) to describe a slovenly man; however, later uses appear almost exclusively associated with women.[2] The modern sense of "a sexually promiscuous woman" dates to at least 1450.[

]

 

The word slut really doesn t have to do with offending woman that sleep with men for money, these are just words, and we really shouldn t be offended, I think girls that have unprotected sex with numerous men are sluts, so what! A lot of my acquaintances outright call themselves a whore and we have a good time laughing about it. What might offend you, might not offend another. I would never single someone out and refer to them by names, like S--T, that s mean, rude and uncalled for, especially on this site and you will never see me do that.

This Thread was originally made about thoughts on abortion, which I gave. If you feel you would like to further discuss this please feel free to PM me, because this was a good thread about a serious issue, I check back ever so often to see all the replies and feelings and now all im getting is this stuff on sluts. That s an odd connection and now I am offended, because I have known girls to abortions that were not sluts..

 

Let's get back to the original issue please..

 

 

My point was that YOU have multiple sexual partners and yet have the nerve to degrade someone who does it for free; it's rather hypocritical. And you did use the word "slut" derogatorily, whether or not you targeted a specific person.

 

Yes, this thread was originally about abortion, and I apologize to the OP for getting off topic, but your comments warranted this aside.

[Old Dog 179138]

Leading the conversation back to choice... here is a disturbing bill that was introduced in Georgia:

 

Proposed Georgia Law: Death Penalty for Abortions

...AND MISCARRIAGES, TOO, MAYBE

 

http://www.newser.com/story/112773/georgia-state-rep-bobby-franklin-wants-to-make-miscarriages-abortions-punishable-by-death.html

 

... and included in the article is another motion by a Nebraska state senator that would make it legal to kill an abortion doctor.... scary stuff

 

http://www.newser.com/story/112787/now-nebraska-could-make-killing-abortion-docs-legal.html

[VedaSloan 119179]

Leading the conversation back to choice... here is a disturbing bill that was introduced in Georgia:

 

Proposed Georgia Law: Death Penalty for Abortions

...AND MISCARRIAGES, TOO, MAYBE

 

http://www.newser.com/story/112773/georgia-state-rep-bobby-franklin-wants-to-make-miscarriages-abortions-punishable-by-death.html

 

... and included in the article is another motion by a Nebraska state senator that would make it legal to kill an abortion doctor.... scary stuff

 

http://www.newser.com/story/112787/now-nebraska-could-make-killing-abortion-docs-legal.html

 

I saw that yesterday and almost choked on my food.

[Old Dog 179138]

It truly is disturbing. We can debate all we want about terminology and attitudes, but there are some truly frightening opinions out there.

 

We constantly decry the fundamentalists in "other" parts of the world for their draconian ways and misogynist views, but we need look no further than our neighbour's yard (and sometimes our own) to truly find "that" kind of intolerance.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

It may be hard to imagine now but we too may be heading in that direction if we get a majority conservative government. May be not that far or that bad but close. Afterall it is a conservative MP (likely having support among other conservative MPs and feminists right and NDP left) that wants to send people to jail for six months for consensual sex between adults, if any money is exchange lol. Vote liberals in the next election if you don't wish a possible fundementatist take over of this free land. Religious people keep your fundementals to yourself and in your church lol.

[roamingguy 300292]

Honestly,

Ya, I really do think woman that have multiple partners without protection are sluts and should close their legs. I will however retract the word since maybe it is like you say a derogatory word, and I really am not here to offend anyone. STD s aren't my personal preference and I really do think we should do whatever we want with our bodies, safely. I view abortion the same. If you do it, don't abuse it or your body.

 

I find in the adult industry, is the safest way to have sex.

 

Why does having multiple sexual partners without protection make a lady a slut??? vs, I assume by extension, having multiple sexual partners

with protectiondoes not make a lady a slut

And why the double standard anyway, in this day and age?...when sexual intercourse takes place, it is between partners...why the stigmatization and labeling of the woman, while the man, no such labels

And really, in this day and age why moral laden labels around sex and sexuality. Labels (which to me are offensive) such as slut and whore, while found in the dictionary are used in a derogatory and hateful way, from individuals who believe they are

morally superior...well no one is superior to anyone else, and be careful who you judge, because there are others who may feel morally superior to you and judge you to

RG

[Ftn40 824]

Some very strong opinions here, and I understand that. But what I fail to understand is why any woman would want to take away any right for any woman to choose any thing for herself?

 

Isn't it true that no one can be free until we all are?

[Lou 9208]

Erin, and everyone else concern by the amount of time Republican American politicians spend fighting to abolish women's right to a safe abortion, here is an illustrated Résumé by the Huff Post of the different bills proposed, or voted, in both Federal and State legislatures in the past year.

 

Scary shit.

Erin, try not to eat while you read it.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/25/reproductive-rights-restriction-efforts_n_828482.html#s245373&title=Iowa_Bill_Allows