Contempt for Parliament Charge explained

[Guest s******ecan****]

For those who have wondered what the contempt charge was about this is a helpful article.

 

I think its important to note that before the opposition parties could vote on this the Speaker had to decide on whether the charges were credible. As you may know the Speaker in neutral and is not part of the opposition.

 

Also noteworthy is the fact that in all of the history of Provincial and English Parliament no government has ever before been found "in contempt of Parliament".

 

This is a serious issue and is not getting the attention it deserves. It is yet one more example of a secretive, overbearing, autocratic government that is taking its cues from the worst excesses of the American Right.

[Cato 160314]

Thanks for this, Scott. I agree completely with you.

 

There goes my reserve....

[Mister T 45020]

Thanks for the reminder, Scott

[docottawa 541]

Most definitely an interesting and well written article by Dan Gardner. I don't see fault in his presentation of the facts. I question, however, his assertion that the finding of contempt is not a political game. I'm of the opinion that a majority of Canadians consider the toppling of the government over this issue to be just that, political maneuvering. The fact that it is the first time that a commonwealth government has been found in contempt is likely more an indication of circumstance than anything else. This minority government was opposed by three parties who have considered toppling it a number of times, merely waiting for what they perceived to be the right time. Not many forget the coalition proposed between the Liberals, the NDP, the Bloc.

 

Personally, I highly doubt that there were no transgressions of contempt by the sitting governments of Jean Chretien, Brian Mulroney or Pierre Trudeau. The major difference between those three prime ministers and today's being the majority benefit that they enjoyed.

 

Doc.

[Lowdark 5613]

Personally, I would pay more attention to the party right now that addressed these matters with legislative solutions. A pipe dream, I know, but if anyone had the courage to include legislating actual transparency and failsafes to insure accountability, they'd definitely get my attantion. And perhaps, many other Canadians as well. Right now, if you can see past the Contempt issue, the entire campaign seems to be about each party's own personal grab bag of milque toast economic goodies, assuming that we could trust them to impliment them if they were elected. And how often have Canadians gone down that road only to realize it's a dead end?

[Apex2006 1071]

Just a reminder that the liberals are also not on the straight and narrow.

 

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/groupaction/

 

 

Why did Jean Chritien quit and why did Paul Martin was Paul forced to call an election????

[Lowdark 5613]

Agreed. Harper has absorbed a lot of criticism for his proroguing Parliament (some of it quite valid), but mostr of those critics seemed to overlook Chretien doing it so he could exit stage left before the Adscam bomb exploded. It was a pretty malicous thing to do as well because he deliberately left that ticking little gift on Paul Martin's desk, and Martin was the one who fell because of it. I am by no means a fan of the Liberals, but I was interested to see what Paul Martin might have been able to do given the chance. He was, after all, the brains behind Chretien for all those years.

 

Just a reminder that the liberals are also not on the straight and narrow.

 

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/groupaction/

 

 

Why did Jean Chritien quit and why did Paul Martin was Paul forced to call an election????

[Guest s******ecan****]

Most definitely an interesting and well written article by Dan Gardner. I don't see fault in his presentation of the facts. I question, however, his assertion that the finding of contempt is not a political game. I'm of the opinion that a majority of Canadians consider the toppling of the government over this issue to be just that, political maneuvering. The fact that it is the first time that a commonwealth government has been found in contempt is likely more an indication of circumstance than anything else. This minority government was opposed by three parties who have considered toppling it a number of times, merely waiting for what they perceived to be the right time. Not many forget the coalition proposed between the Liberals, the NDP, the Bloc.

 

Personally, I highly doubt that there were no transgressions of contempt by the sitting governments of Jean Chretien, Brian Mulroney or Pierre Trudeau. The major difference between those three prime ministers and today's being the majority benefit that they enjoyed.

 

Doc.

 

....naturally majority governments would be able to insulate themselves from this to a large extent (depending on the discipline of caucus) but the authour does point out this is unprecedented ioubt n the history of Canadian Federal, Provincial, and English Parliament minority governments, all of which were no doubt fraught with lots of political maneuvering.

 

I think the public's disinterest has more to do with a general cynicism about politics. Thats what I don't like about Harper. He has ruthlessly exploited (and thereby worsened) that cynicism. It may work well for short term political gain but one day the nation may face a crisis in which a belief in the value and integrity of our institutions may be absolutely essential.

[jg24 3708]

Ok let's not fool ourselves the speaker is not part of the Opposition

 

He has been voted in as a Liberal he was first Voted in as A Liberal in 1988

 

Also the commitee was made up of more Opposition than Govt members

 

So he is a Liberal and I'm sure he toes Party lines this was all about forcing an election

Posted via Mobile Device

[Guest s******ecan****]

Ok let's not fool ourselves the speaker is not part of the Opposition

 

He has been voted in as a Liberal he was first Voted in as A Liberal in 1988

 

Also the commitee was made up of more Opposition than Govt members

 

So he is a Liberal and I'm sure he toes Party lines this was all about forcing an election

Posted via Mobile Device

 

Every speaker comes from one of the political parties. He/she is however chosen by the house and broad support amongst all parties is required. Speakers have always been meticulous about putting their former party connections behind them and taking serious the duty of being speaker. No one has accussed this Speaker of being bias, not even the supremely cynical Harper has gone there.

 

I'm still not sure how I'll vote but this is a serious issue and is perfectly consistent with Harper's MO.

[Cato 160314]

The only government in the Parliamentary history of the Commonwealth to be found in contempt...Ever. How many minority governments have there been? Lots.

[CMJ 14869]

I say we give the NDP and the Green's a shot at running the country - neither has had an opportunity yet.

 

The NDP's got a bad rap in Ontario cause ray asked people to take a day off - those people all lost their jobs under Harris - a day off doesn't look that bad compared to losing your job. I find it HILARIOUS that now Bob Ray is a LIBERAL - he single handedly ruined the NDP's reputation in Ontario and now is a liberal... wow.

 

Honestly, these elitist pigs have made a mockery out of our democracy and are laughing at how stupid we are cause we keep begging for more abuse - higher taxes, less social programs, crappier "sick care" system, a pathetic public education system, ridiculously high post-secondary education with a low guaranteed job after, and worst of all - the continuous selling off of OUR natural resources to foreign countries like the USA and China.

 

 

So, what are you gonna do? Continue the insanity by allowing our 2 party system (the illusion of choice and difference) to keep tossing the power back between the two of them, or are we gonna finally have the change we deserve and a party in power that actually serves the average Canadian and that will respect mother nature and protect our future needs for our natural resources?

 

I encourage everyone to read up on the Green Party's platform and find out what they are about... since they are not allowed to participate in the leaders debate. I find that disgusting - a party with a Candidate in every riding in this country (more so then other parties) and yet they are denied an opportunity to be heard by the national audience. Canadian's should be outraged and should ask WHY?

 

If you have children or grandchildren, you really need to start waking up and ask yourself what is happening to our country and every other country around the world. We are being ruled by global elitists that have a global agenda and guess what?? they don't give 2 shits about Canadian citizens or our future.

 

Ever find it odd that Steven Harpers speeches are the exact same as other leaders speeches? Maybe because they are being written by the same people...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8YwJC_nBgw

 

 

Anyways, anyone who knows me knows I get very passionate about these talks...

[Guest tr*****e]

I say we give the NDP and the Green's a shot at running the country - neither has had an opportunity yet.

 

The NDP's got a bad rap in Ontario cause ray asked people to take a day off - those people all lost their jobs under Harris - a day off doesn't look that bad compared to losing your job. I find it HILARIOUS that now Bob Ray is a LIBERAL - he single handedly ruined the NDP's reputation in Ontario and now is a liberal... wow.

 

Honestly, these elitist pigs have made a mockery out of our democracy and are laughing at how stupid we are cause we keep begging for more abuse - higher taxes, less social programs, crappier "sick care" system, a pathetic public education system, ridiculously high post-secondary education with a low guaranteed job after, and worst of all - the continuous selling off of OUR natural resources to foreign countries like the USA and China.

 

 

So, what are you gonna do? Continue the insanity by allowing our 2 party system (the illusion of choice and difference) to keep tossing the power back between the two of them, or are we gonna finally have the change we deserve and a party in power that actually serves the average Canadian and that will respect mother nature and protect our future needs for our natural resources?

 

I encourage everyone to read up on the Green Party's platform and find out what they are about... since they are not allowed to participate in the leaders debate. I find that disgusting - a party with a Candidate in every riding in this country (more so then other parties) and yet they are denied an opportunity to be heard by the national audience. Canadian's should be outraged and should ask WHY?

 

If you have children or grandchildren, you really need to start waking up and ask yourself what is happening to our country and every other country around the world. We are being ruled by global elitists that have a global agenda and guess what?? they don't give 2 shits about Canadian citizens or our future.

 

Ever find it odd that Steven Harpers speeches are the exact same as other leaders speeches? Maybe because they are being written by the same people...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8YwJC_nBgw

 

 

Anyways, anyone who knows me knows I get very passionate about these talks...

 

Wow. That's a shocking video. I wonder if it's been doctored, but I still find it highly disturbing that their words matched up so nicely. Harper's not getting my vote, and I have reservations about the Liberals, too.

[CMJ 14869]

Wow. That's a shocking video. I wonder if it's been doctored, but I still find it highly disturbing that their words matched up so nicely. Harper's not getting my vote, and I have reservations about the Liberals, too.

 

No it wasn't altered - you can view it from multiple sources. Ever wonder why our domestic policies are the exact same as other countries, or why so many countries around the world have the same issues? What do they have in common? They are all victims of global policies - ie: IMF, WTO, World Bank etc. We have given our sovereignty away slowly to globalist and their globalist agenda. I hate to sound conspiratorial but if the New World Order conspiracy is about a one world government, a one world currency, a world army and a micro-chipped population that they can control everything aspect of our lives... and you look at the changes in the world since 1900 - well it doesn't sound so crazy after all.

 

I doubt the European countries thought that they would have the Euro, I doubt we imagined RFID chips and biometric technology being used in passports, drivers licences, bank cards etc.

 

Look at the UN and NATO and how many sovereign countries governments we have over thrown - the school of the Americas and the horrible things they have done - look at all the trillions of dollars that have been wasted on violence and destruction rather then peace and prosperity.

 

Human are loving and compassionate beings when we aren't put in a situation to fight for the basic necessities of life (food, clean water, shelter etc). I believe we would have peace if greed and corruption wasn't rampant around the world.

 

2/3 of the worlds population lives on less the 2 dollars a DAY but yet our disgusting government wastes millions of dollars on fake lakes and lining their own pockets.

 

Materialism and waste is programed into our day to day life - look at how CRAPPY things are manufactured these days - they are made to last for awhile and then break down so we have to buy buy buy buy buy buy more.

 

Our food is rampant with hormones, antibiotics, processed, artificial flavours etc and our environment is polluted with carcinogens, toxins, etc and we wonder why cancer and other disease is an epidemic?

 

We wonder why the trees are dying and the bees are disappearing... we wonder why why why ....... the answer is in front of us - its time for people to start waking up and taking back our countries all around the world.

 

Has anyone watched the Zeitgeist documentaries? there is 3 of them now.

[docottawa 541]

The only government in the Parliamentary history of the Commonwealth to be found in contempt...Ever. How many minority governments have there been? Lots.

 

Seriously, Cato. Don't you think that this statement says just as much about the coalition of parties that decided the current government is in contempt of Parliament as it does about anything.

 

Canadians aren't mindless sheep. We see what is happening in the House of Commons in relation to this issue. We'll each of us decide what we think of it. There will be those who cry that this is proof that Harper is a dangerous man. They will say that this "historic" finding is proof. Most Canadians, however, will likely see this announcement of contempt for what it is; political posturing and maneuvering. It happens every day in all forms of democratic government.

[Cato 160314]

I think it says a lot about the Conservative government that, of all the minority governments in the history of the Commonwealth, only this one has been found in contempt of Parliament.

I'm simply suggesting that we think about the issue of responsible government seriously.

[Guest tr*****e]

Huh. Well, I'm more sure than ever that I'm not voting Conservative now. I wonder just how far this kind of thing will be allowed to progress. It's times like these when I wonder if the religious kooks I left behind weren't right about the way society's going.

 

BTW, I don't intend any offence towards people of faith, I'm just pointing out that sometimes fringe groups(not a description of beliefs characterized as 'religion') have a very valid point.

[Cato 160314]

Here's an interesting link. The Auditor General seems to have uncovered some more material about this gov't's attitude to parliament (and the taxpayer).

 

http://news.sympatico.ctv.ca/TopStories/harper-government-g8-spending

 

This can hardly be put down to Liberal politicking, I think, as it's a report by the Auditor General on spending irregularities by the Harper government during the summit meeting last year.

[Reddog2402 2224]

Actually, he's sided with the government on confidence matters in the past (see 2005 federal budget). Plus, although the Speaker is traditionally a member of the governing party, Milliken is one of only two Speakers to have been elected as a Member of the Opposition.

 

Plus, he's widely regarded as one of the top experts on Parliamentary Procedures, and is frequently cited by other Commonwealth countries.

 

So I hardly think it's warranted to accuse him of playing party politics - if anyone sticks to the facts and plays by the rules, it's Milliken.

[Lowdark 5613]

This is not the first time a government has found itself in a minority, yet the first time it has ever been found in Contempt of Parliament. If Contempt was a political maneuver, why had it never been used in any of those other situations before? Not just in Canada, but in the history of the entire Commonwealth? And as others have pointed out, Milligen is a straight shooter who has sided with the governement on past issues. He is widely respected by both sides of the aisle.

 

Just finished reading the story on the G-8 and G-20 reading as well. But I have to wonder, if they did indeed lie to Parliament about this (hopefully the whole report comes out soon), will staunch Conservative suporters care? The Contempt issue sems to be largely ignored and met with a shrug. I glanced quickly at Sun Media's coverage of the G-8 issue and they gave it a mere three paragraphs (with quotations around the word wasteful). Will this make a difference? I hope so (and no, I'm not a Liberal supporter-I vote based on the issues). And if it doesn't, what will?

[docottawa 541]

Here's an interesting link. The Auditor General seems to have uncovered some more material about this gov't's attitude to parliament (and the taxpayer).

 

http://news.sympatico.ctv.ca/TopStories/harper-government-g8-spending

 

This can hardly be put down to Liberal politicking, I think, as it's a report by the Auditor General on spending irregularities by the Harper government during the summit meeting last year.

 

 

 

This is an interesting development, to be sure. I'm quite certain that it has the potential to damage the Tories at the booths. I've read that the Conservatives have asked the Auditor General to release the final version of the report immediately so that all the facts can be laid out bare. Evidently, the story in question refers to a draft report which has not been finally authorized by the Auditor General's office.

 

Personally, I'd like to see what Sheila Frasier concludes in the final report.