Guide to TOFTT

[bobbi 1388]

Hey guys, I've put together some tips and guidance to help out the "rookie guys" when dealing with pure TOFTT in regards to unproven un-established independent escorts. It's still a draft but fairly advanced. What do you think of it so far? If you have any recommendations to help improve it, please let me know.

Link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tLf9Ka6dI6Tb4XLFr18cuPruHrMyUZwxC6Q1VsOMBSk/edit#heading=h.9v3d7clb950t

[bobbi 1388]

46 minutes ago, clearbluesky15 said:

Will admit, i hadn't researched the if/when Google Docs captures accounts names, but maybe a 'better safe than sorry' approach of using an incognito tab (Chrome) vs. visiting while logged into your real  Google account.

Thanks CBS15,

Do you mean when the members/readers click on the G-doc link?

I agree that no one should use their "real life" email account to comment in the G-doc. I personally have an email account that I use strictly for hobbying purposes and nothing else.

However, the G-doc is set up that any readers does not have to login into Google in order to access the document. I could have set it up that readers have to sign-in into Google.

As the document owner, the only thing I see is anonymous readers currently reading the document unless yes, if they have signed into Google. 

That being said, I'm a long time member, no need to worry about me, I'm legit lol 🙂

[bobbi 1388]

48 minutes ago, clearbluesky15 said:

Hey Bobbi,

 

Wasn't worried about you. Was worried about someone using their real-name account, and making changes, which go in the change log.

Thorough document 🙂

 

-cbs

Yes you are correct! The comment or proposed change would stay logged in the log. Good point.

 

Yes it is quite thorough lol, thanks.

[politegeek 113]

Excellent guide, thanks! Wish I had read this a few weeks ago though...

[bobbi 1388]

On 4/20/2019 at 8:25 AM, politegeek said:

Excellent guide, thanks! Wish I had read this a few weeks ago though...

Thanks man. The document is a live one, it has been revised following feedback. There's also other sections being drafted 😉

[Guest]

   Nice document.

        But SP's and MA's also have a responsibility to get the word out. When someone offers very good services, it rarely stays hidden for long. If a lady can't get a single recommendation published, this should by itself be a red flag. Nobody should have to pay/toftt for someone who offers minimalistic services or refuses to appear on forums.

        In this age of social media and message boards, we shouldn't be paying to post free publicity for someone who choose to remain in the dark. When they want to stay off the grid, there often a good reason.

[DyatlovPass 1263]

What? When a woman signs up to do sex work, she don't necessarily sign up to manage social networks on top of that and engage with johns online.

Reviewing SPs (positively or negatively) is the johns' responsability, period. 

That job looks already hard and dangerous enough as it is, and can ruin a sex worker's private and professional life, and social reputation. Staying off the internet as much as they want is their prerogative. Who gets to decide how much "in the dark" or "off the grid" she wants to be? Her, I reckon. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, DyatlovPass said:

What? When a woman signs up to do sex work, she don't necessarily sign up to manage social networks on top of that and engage with johns online.

Reviewing SPs (positively or negatively) is the johns' responsability, period. 

That job looks already hard and dangerous enough as it is, and can ruin a sex worker's private and professional life, and social reputation. Staying off the internet as much as they want is their prerogative. Who gets to decide how much "in the dark" or "off the grid" she wants to be? Her, I reckon. 

        I agree about the need for a safe work environment. But considering how expensive and rare classified adult ads are today, social media and message boards may soon become the only way to advertise. Many ladies here have no problems showing their presence online and allowing recommendations to be written.

        Ladies who prefer secrecy can't expect us to do the promotion for them. If they need a manager to handle it, I'm sure there still some honest ones out there.

[DyatlovPass 1263]

2 hours ago, Greenteal said:

        I agree about the need for a safe work environment. But considering how expensive and rare classified adult ads are today, social media and message boards may soon become the only way to advertise. Many ladies here have no problems showing their presence online and allowing recommendations to be written.

        Ladies who prefer secrecy can't expect us to do the promotion for them. If they need a manager to handle it, I'm sure there still some honest ones out there.

Often times, they have to prefer secrecy because of the social stigma and the laws. Same for us, too in a sense. At the end of the day, as long as those stigmas exist, we won't fix the problem.

I agree with you that social media and boards might soon be the best way, with the crackdown on Backpage and co. and the factors you mentioned. But then what if boards are pressured the way BP or CL were, deplatformed, or if Facebook is finally reined it by lawmakers? 

 

You know, I think I disagreed initially because my definition might be different from yours. I don't see clients reviewing SPs as doing their promotion. I see it first and foremost as clients protecting themselves, as consumers. 

 

Other side of the coin: ladies that are quite apt at advertising, but are misrepresenting themselves and Bait & Switching. To that, I prefer a SP whose internet game is lacking, but let the word of mouth work in her favor.

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, DyatlovPass said:

You know, I think I disagreed initially because my definition might be different from yours. I don't see clients reviewing SPs as doing their promotion. I see it first and foremost as clients protecting themselves, as consumers. 

 

Other side of the coin: ladies that are quite apt at advertising, but are misrepresenting themselves and Bait & Switching. To that, I prefer a SP whose internet game is lacking, but let the word of mouth work in her favor.

  The entire point of TOFTT is to be the first to meet a provider and post some feedback.

  If positive, a recommendation can be posted(if she allows). If fraudulent, a warning can be posted. And if simply negative or "meh", generally nothing is reported.

  I don't think I'm the only one annoyed with the ridiculous amount of "Have you seen her?" threads that pop up everyday. I don't think I'm exaggerating by saying over 75% of those thread can be answered by a Google or Image search and also by simply using the search tool of this message board. 

  If someone has been in business for over 6 months and you can't find a single word about that person, I would avoid. On this forum there are a few ladies who on the surface seem to have great reputations, but I dare you to find a single good word about them(and please don't ask who). If I see someone new, take a chance and experience something good, I will recommend. But I won't because nobody else want to take the chance.

  As for "word to mouth", I'm not sure what you're getting at. Message boards like lyla are the modern form of "word to mouth". And when absolutely no feedback exists about someone, it's rarely good.

[bobbi 1388]

On 4/30/2019 at 7:39 PM, Greenteal said:

   Nice document.

        But SP's and MA's also have a responsibility to get the word out. When someone offers very good services, it rarely stays hidden for long. If a lady can't get a single recommendation published, this should by itself be a red flag. Nobody should have to pay/toftt for someone who offers minimalistic services or refuses to appear on forums.

        In this age of social media and message boards, we shouldn't be paying to post free publicity for someone who choose to remain in the dark. When they want to stay off the grid, there often a good reason.

Without haven't read what follows this post, I will reply to this one.

 

- imo, it's not the SP/MA's responsibility to get the word out, it's an option for them should they want to.

- imo, the majority of guys (90% maybe?) don't post reviews, so gems can remind hidden for a while.

- In it written in the guidance that if an escort has been working for years and has no reviews, then it is a red flag.

- TOFTT are available for guys that are into them, we all have our preferences.

- imo, escorts have many reasons to stay of the grid, ultimately it is their choice to make and be respected.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, bobbi said:

Without haven't read what follows this post, I will reply to this one.

 

- imo, it's not the SP/MA's responsibility to get the word out, it's an option for them should they want to.

- imo, the majority of guys (90% maybe?) don't post reviews, so gems can remind hidden for a while.

- In it written in the guidance that if an escort has been working for years and has no reviews, then it is a red flag.

- TOFTT are available for guys that are into them, we all have our preferences.

- imo, escorts have many reasons to stay of the grid, ultimately it is their choice to make and be respected.

  It's hard to justifying "taking one for the team" for someone who prefers staying off the grid. One can see a very private provider for his own experience. But if the point is not to spread the word, I don't call this TOFTT. It's just a normal private session.

  But for the rest, let's just agree to disagree.

      Have a nice evening.

[bobbi 1388]

42 minutes ago, Greenteal said:

  The entire point of TOFTT is to be the first to meet a provider.

  

  I don't think I'm the only one annoyed with the ridiculous amount of "Have you seen her?" threads that pop up everyday. I don't think I'm exaggerating by saying over 75% of those thread can be answered by a Google or Image search and also by simply using the search tool of this message board.

I agree with these 2 points.

 

Personally I love doing TOFTTs, I have 41 in the last 40 months :)

 

"Have your seen her" or "any info" etc... that usually comes with no full phone number, sometimes no link or one that dies the next day. I see those posts as a very lazy leeching approach. And you're right 75% of the time the answer is available with 5 minutes of research. That's one of the purpose of the "TOFTT guidance", to help reduce these type of threads.

[DyatlovPass 1263]

On 5/1/2019 at 8:42 PM, Greenteal said:

As for "word to mouth", I'm not sure what you're getting at. Message boards like lyla are the modern form of "word to mouth". And when absolutely no feedback exists about someone, it's rarely good.

By "word of mouth", I mean exactly that: reviews by clients and information shared between clients. I think it's a bit disrespectful, frankly, to place on providers the burden of doing their promotion - they're not selling donuts, they're selling something that can ruin their reputation, get them a criminal record and get them hurt or killed.

Perhaps if we had a well functioning, honest board, the word of mouth would be easier. Instead, we have a half-dead crappy board where people can't report bad reviewers and where 75% of the content is people pointlessly asking "have you seen X" with a leolist link that's gonna be broken in 4 days.

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, DyatlovPass said:

By "word of mouth", I mean exactly that: reviews by clients and information shared between clients. I think it's a bit disrespectful, frankly, to place on providers the burden of doing their promotion - they're not selling donuts, they're selling something that can ruin their reputation, get them a criminal record and get them hurt or killed.

    This board contains profiles, announcements and recommendations for several hundred women able to safely maintain a positive social media image on top of regularly contributing to discussions and making new friends. If all of them are wrong, I'm not gonna be the one telling them. 

32 minutes ago, DyatlovPass said:

Perhaps if we had a well functioning, honest board, the word of mouth would be easier. Instead, we have a half-dead crappy board where people can't report bad reviewers and where 75% of the content is people pointlessly asking "have you seen X" with a leolist link that's gonna be broken in 4 days.

    If you took a moment to read the board rules, you would learn it's a Recommendation board and not for reviews. Warnings for dangerous and fraudulent ads and providers are allowed if not used in an abusive way. If you feel obligated to report mediocre experiences, you're on the wrong forum. Most Lyla members can read between the lines in the absence of recommendations. If you can't, nobody's forcing you to stay on an "half-d...………………".

[DyatlovPass 1263]

21 hours ago, Greenteal said:

    If you took a moment to read the board rules, you would learn it's a Recommendation board and not for reviews. Warnings for dangerous and fraudulent ads and providers are allowed if not used in an abusive way. If you feel obligated to report mediocre experiences, you're on the wrong forum. Most Lyla members can read between the lines in the absence of recommendations. If you can't, nobody's forcing you to stay on an "half-d...………………".

Oh I have read the board rules alright and read the board enough to know that those rules are dumb as f***. It's not by any means a well functioning board, because the rules are designed to suppress participation and the sharing of info. How does "absence of recommendation = provider bad" makes any sense? Absence of lightning doesn't tell me it's sunny. You're delusional with your "members can read between the lines". If they could, this board would be actual useful content instead of being 75% "hey did you see X" and 20% you giving your opinion on everything.

 

But hey rules are rules, and I abide by them. Nobody's forcing me to be here, that's true. I think it's deplorable that this is the only board in the area. 

[Guest]

…..ok. This should be interesting.

[Suchfun 14]

Greenteal, In no way does that add any value to this thread. Have some respect and open your mind to other people’s point of view.   If you continue to dissagree so be it, no need to mock or entice anything otherwise. 

[bobbi 1388]

Hey guys, can we stay on topic please? This thread is for the guidance in the OP. If anyone has suggestions to improve the guidance, I'll happily incorporate it. On this note, the guidance has been revised. Originally the scope of the guidance ended at "when the booking was made", but due to requests and contributions from board members, the scope has grown.

Added:
- hyperlinked table of content
- "before starting the session" section
- "writing your review" section

An important section on e-transfer deposits, given references and personal information, and client's list is being drafted. Perspective from established escorts will be integrated.

 

Link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tLf9Ka6dI6Tb4XLFr18cuPruHrMyUZwxC6Q1VsOMBSk/edit.

[NSGuy14 1239]

3 hours ago, Greenteal said:

…..ok. This should be interesting.

 

[NSGuy14 1239]

Newbie poster and I didn't mean to attach to Greenteal's post, but whatever. 

First off, to the OP, that is an awesome amount of work you put into that document.  Very thorough, so congrats and thank you for that!

So, not that I'm trying to stay "off-topic" but to me the review vs recommendation discussion is somewhat on topic here since if you venture out to TOFTT hopefully a subsequent review will follow  >>>  or according to Greenteal, it won't follow if the experience is bad or meh, I guess.   Of course, this same issue has come up in several other threads on many occasions and they typically end with posters agreeing to disagree or just dropping it entirely.

My take on it is this (and yes, I only have 2 prior posts to my name so "long time listener, first time caller" applies, so flame away if you wish!!) ,  But the recommendation page does have a graduated 5-star potential rating and there are a lot of 5-stars given.  I haven't provided recommendations because in my books 5-stars would be pretty phenomena so I felt only giving 4 or 3.5 would be seen as insulting with the bar already set so high. In my world 3-and-up would be worth consideration.   Hell,  I know I wouldn't be 5-stars if it was the SP giving the reco and I wouldn't expect to be.  Does it need to be 5-star or don't bother?? 

So what if a poster does a "recommendation" with only 2 or 3 stars?  I haven't seen it.  Are they taken down?  5-stars is a pretty high bar, yet it seems to be very close to the norm for recommendations.  I guess the reco's are to be taken as one-offs and not really a graduating scale based on previous encounters.  I thought that was what reco's are  :  i.e. if I did reviews Savannah Sol would be my benchmark and everyone else would be up or down from there.  To do that Savannah would need to be a 4 or 4.5.   If that's the case then there would be some definite 3's, but still good, just not Savannah-good. But based on the 5 scale Savannah would be an 8! 

All that said, I have discovered that pm's do fill in some of the gaps but alas, using pm's makes this far less of a forum for the casual users like myself.

So there it is.  I guess it pretty much needs to be 5-star or you might as well brace for impact.

 

Also, I do want to add my thanks to the regular posters that do provide legit and useful info, and for the many ladies that keep the board current and fresh.

[Andee 220524]

Men telling women how the business should be run. Okay how about  we ask for your picture to make sure you’re legit. Do your homework and use common sense don’t insult ladies by asking them to prove who they are if you’re doubtful then Move on.

[cat 262460]

The bottom line is that only a small percentage of business is generated off the boards. I know many providers with no online presence who are ethical and run successful businesses. Boards aren't needed to make provider successful but they have the power to ruin a providers life both personally and professionally. A rare few of my clients are on the boards, most don't want to be involved with them and some don't even know they exist. If there is nothing online that doesn't mean she's not reputable, it means there is nothing posted about her. There are a myriad of reasons why there is nothing, with the most obvious being she doesn't want anything posted. I've specifically requested that nothing be posted about me. If someone has enjoyed themselves, a simple thank you is appreciated; if there is a problem then I rectify it. There is no need for anything to go online. 

 

smiles, cat

[bobbi 1388]

5 hours ago, Mature Angela said:

Men telling women how the business should be run. Okay how about  we ask for your picture to make sure you’re legit. Do your homework and use common sense don’t insult ladies by asking them to prove who they are if you’re doubtful then Move on.

The guidance has NOTHING to do with "Men" telling women how the business should be run. Also the guidance focuses on unproven, un-established, un-reviewed, independent escorts. The fact that you post on a forum, mostly likely means that the guidance does not apply to you.

 

Maybe you haven't read it? Or maybe you haven't understood it?

 

Escorts are not booking clients for their appearances. Escort book clients for their money. On the other hand, several clients book escort for their appearances and they are the buyers.

 

Asking for proof in a respectful manner as discussed in the guidance is a common practice nowadays. Disrespecting and insulting are NOT part of the guidance.

 

As you said, if the proof request has been declined, then the client can respectfully move on.

 

If you are an established or proven or reviewed escorts, then the guidance will provide tip to inexperienced clients in order for them to realize that you are, hence making your life easier 🙂

[Guest]

14 hours ago, NSGuy14 said:

 

Couldn't agree more. Thanks.