Philosophical thread on wounded attachments

[Kubrickfan 12836]

I dont see the problem with starting to establish one's own identity by identifying with other groups with which you beleive you share things in common. This is very much part of human (and also animal) nature ... its a way to survive and cope and better understand your own feelings and identity.

 

I also disagree that identity is not formed "in a moment," but rather takes a long time ... in fact, I'm not sure if that ever is a completed process as all of us are inundated daily with information from groups we identify with in one form or another. For instance, this board and all of the opinions here ... I certainly dont identify with all of them, but there is much positive information here.

 

No one is deserving of being considered, by virtue of birth, more human than anyone else. On the other hand, if you want to be respected by other people in any manner ... by being more human, more compassionate, smarter, whatever, you have to earn it.

 

Not sure I am on the point Nathalie is referring to, but thats the best I can do at this hour of the night.

[mrrnice2 157005]

Thank you for the philosophical challenge. I am going to spend some time on this prior to responding, hopefully intelligently. My "wounded attachments" are in a seemingly constant state of flux.

[Malika Fantasy 144625]

Philosophy in English...let me time to make sure my english is proper for once and that I answer on my computer...

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[Guest e**m***h]

So much here. The idea of wounded attachments is powerful. My experience tells me we do in fact build much of ourselves from the way we cling to what has made us suffer (the group that has repressed or been repressed, for example). So hard to let go of what we know - even when it hurts or constricts us so deeply, and of motivations like resentment that flow from alienation.

 

But what if we actually could let go and make something new? I suspect this itself is not very easy, though brilliantly worthwhile! We would have to be creative and alert to the needs and identities of others...kind to each other, and disallow repression and disenfranchisement when it starts to occur (a bit like how CERB works when we are getting a bit cranky or disrespectful - thanks MOD). There would be much to learn to get to know ourselves as a species this much. What would an unencumbered place even look like for us, where we all felt entitled to equal dignity, love and worth?

 

Edward Said, a wonderful political philosopher would often quote the amazing poet Aime Cesaire:

 

"...no race holds a monopoly of beauty, of intelligence, of strength, and,

There is a place for all at the Rendezvous of Victory."

 

The rendezvous of victory - hard to see what it could be exactly but it is at least the promise of something optimistic for a change. I have always loved the idea that we could get there eventually. Perhaps it starts with the basic entitlement to let go of the hurtful known attachments and replace them with an entitlement to imagine the respectful unknown at last. Not much social support for this yet, but you never know how we could change eventually. Bet it would be amazing to make love in such a world, when we are all wonderfully enlightened!

 

Well, I guess these are my thoughts over morning coffee - Thanks Nat! Get better soon.

[etasman2000 15994]

Depending on the intensity of the experience identity can form in a moment.

 

E.g.1. anyone with a life threatening allergy automatically and irrevocably self identifies as "i am allergic to X" upon initial encounter with the allergen. This may not be a conscious decision, the evidence is in the body's reaction to the allergen.

 

E.g.2. phobia is another example of identity formation with initial encounter of the trigger.

 

Even if there is a build up there is a pivotal point in time where you teeter between forming or changing the identity. In psychology this is call the Choice Point.

 

E.g.3. long term abuse victims form a co-dependency with their abuser. This co-dependency can take years to form and take years of conventional therapy to remove. Unless the victim 'snaps'. In this example please note that the victim can identify as a victim wholly giving up control to their abuser or identify as a survivor and take back control from their abuser.

 

Taking the violent experiences out of the equation there are also examples of pivotal identification:

 

E.g.4. this is a common narrative from the LGBT community. Someone who is struggling with their sexual identity especially in an environment which is antagonistic towards it. Upon encountering the larger community there is a sense of relief, "I am normal", self identification towards it, "I am lesbian/gay/bi/transgender" and acceptance, "These are my people".

 

E.g.5. I suspect many of us had a similar experience when we first found cerb, I am a hobbiest. This does not imply acceptance of the entire culture.

[Nathalie L 112512]

No one is deserving of being considered, by virtue of birth, more human than anyone else. On the other hand, if you want to be respected by other people in any manner ... by being more human, more compassionate, smarter, whatever, you have to earn it.

 

I think a lot of people are 'less human' by virtue of their birth, especially with regards to human rights. I think the point I was trying to get across was that some people are considered 'subhuman'/'subaltern'.

 

For example, for a very long time, and I would argue still today, Aboriginal peoples in Canada aren't considered fully 'human' (I say 'peoples' to avoid the homogenization of various tribes). This is apparent when one considers how their lives aren't valuable - they are overrepresented in our prison system, and the death of sex workers who are Aboriginal is staggering (see Highway of Tears...)

 

But what if we actually could let go and make something new? I suspect this itself is not very easy, though brilliantly worthwhile! We would have to be creative and alert to the needs and identities of others...kind to each other, and disallow repression and disenfranchisement when it starts to occur

 

Edward Said, a wonderful political philosopher would often quote the amazing poet Aime Cesaire:

 

"...no race holds a monopoly of beauty, of intelligence, of strength, and,

There is a place for all at the Rendezvous of Victory."

 

The rendezvous of victory - hard to see what it could be exactly but it is at least the promise of something optimistic for a change. I have always loved the idea that we could get there eventually.

 

Edward Said's book "Orientalism" was fantastic. I must admit!

 

Also, it's somewhat terrifying to let go of the wounded attachments we have to our identities... when an old system is replaced with a new one, or when we 'imagine' our futures without those wounded attachments, it's somewhat terrifying. That's why Nietzsche discusses people's political will to actually seek freedom. Sometimes we don't want to be 'free'. Foucault takes it for granted that people want freedom...

 

We have enough privilege in the West to theorize a new world into existence, one based on the principles you've mentioned... it's amazing.

 

Taking the violent experiences out of the equation there are also examples of pivotal identification:

 

E.g.4. this is a common narrative from the LGBT community. Someone who is struggling with their sexual identity especially in an environment which is antagonistic towards it. Upon encountering the larger community there is a sense of relief, "I am normal", self identification towards it, "I am lesbian/gay/bi/transgender" and acceptance, "These are my people".

 

Well, I'm not willing to state those experience of identity formation are not violent per se (one need only look at the increased suicide rate of GLBTTQ teens in Canada and the U.S. to know that violence is occurring). However, this is exactly what I was referring to in my post...

 

When one is named 'queer', one can turn around and use that label to demand human rights. Isn't that interesting?

[mrrnice2 157005]

Wounded attachments. What an interesting concept.

Initially I am tending towards the belief that Ms. Brown has gone 180 degrees in the wrong direction with the idea that these wounded attachments will foreclose on the possibility of having an emancipated future.

I can only argue or discuss this from a personal perspective, and in no way wish to presuppose that others share these reasons for being where they presently find themselves.

In a society, by the nature of being a society, individuals not only stake their place as individuals with individual and personal belief systems, but they also have a need to be a part of the greater whole. This need stems from society itself, in the way that we bring up our children and with societies accepted norms. I would go so far as to believe that this is an innate need or instinct - the desire to be a part of something greater. We also give up our individuality to the 'greater good' of society, and often without even recognizing that fact.

However, the accepted norms of a society are not always in line with underlying personal beliefs and it will perhaps be the exceptional person that will cast societal norms aside in order to assume their mantle of individuality.

Many of those pointed out by Nathalie who are teased, bullied, discriminated against, or harassed want and need to become a part of the society as a whole.

A case in point may be the person who has been brought up to accept the "normal" way of living and moving forward. Get an education which then leads to a "good" job. The seeking of a spouse or partner, and then providing a stable home, having a family, and retiring gracefully.

But what of the person for whom these objectives have been met successfully and all along with their tacit approval who then finds themselves in a situation where all of that becomes virtually unimportant.

Here is where the wound occurs and that wound leads to a questioning of the norms of society, and the ability to withdraw from the many preconceived notions of right and wrong, or of what is moral or immoral. This wound in fact may lead TO emancipation rather than the reverse as argued. It may lead to a person assuming their position as an individual and saying, "No, enough. I am human. I am an individual and I will assume that role".

Some are more 'human' than others? No. Some people are more 'deserving of rights'. No. Many have not been wounded enough, or they have been indoctrinated enough, that they cannot recognize or assume that there is another role beside that which society has taught them and imposed upon them.

As I write my mind continually shifts to "Who is John Galt"? Maybe Ayn Rand had it right? I have not thought of her books in years.

It only takes a moment,

for my story to be stolen.

Perhaps 'stolen' should read 'revealed'.

Now I know why I was drawn to the science field! Way easier to be certain! I am not sure at all that I am even addressing the original question posed!

[Nathalie L 112512]

Oups - the reputation points system has a character limit. Learn something new everyday.

 

What I meant to say was "I agree, the only way the denial of 'human rights' can legitimately occur is if society perceives those involved as somehow NOT human (subhuman or subaltern)"