Pornhub and Visa/Mastercard

[Guest lydiahardwood]

I think we've all heard about this fiasco by now, right?

My issues with it:

- These "activists" seem to be anti-sex work. They aren't going after the advertisers that pay PH, they're going after the payment processors that pay sex workers

- I think that having to be Verified in order to post content is a good thing (does anyone have any differing opinions?) but feel like sex work websites are being targeted unfairly when you compare the stats to platforms like Snapchat and Facebook who have far more accounts of child abuse imagery/revenge porn etc. than PH

- If sites such as PH get taken down porn will still exist, it'll just be underground and therefore more dangerous

I know this is a complex subject so I'd love to get your thoughts on it all as I know many people are divided. Let me know! 🙂 

https://reason.com/2020/12/16/pornhub-isnt-the-problem-that-wont-stop-the-politicized-crusade-against-it/

[Guest]

     More than often those business decisions are symbolic in order to appease anti porn and evangelical groups. Those credit card companies won't abandon such a lucrative market. Using PayPal and other online payments services still allow the use of major credit cards or direct payment.

      Also, PH is only a drop in the bucket in regard to the porn industry. Once we'll return to a normal social life, we can expect many of those decisions to be overturned until the next controversy.

[OldandNerdy 1303]

First off, before this story started to break I had no idea that PH was based in Canada. 

 

I'd agree, there definitely seems to be an agenda for sure, especially with the disparity between instances of underage content on Facebook vs PH.  What was it, 84,000,000 instances for FB and 118 for PH?

 

I wonder if they would be facing this same level of scrutiny if their site and brand was "sharehub"?

 

As for the verification model they've moved to, I agree it's a good idea, as it will cut down on a lot of the random " I picked up this drunk girl" type videos, but their verification process is a bit light.  I believe right now it's take a photo of yourself holding up a piece of paper with PornHub.com written on it.  Definitely not hard to spoof, especially depending on how they verify it.  I know they're saying they are going to enhance this process in the new year, but just how enhanced will it be?

 

Their business model depends on eyes viewing content, so they'll need to have content there to continue to survive. 

 

But back to the main point.  We aren't seeing the same type of story being pushed and repushed and trended for any other non "sex" websites are we?  There's definitely still a huge stigma around the idea of sex, especially in North America.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest lydiahardwood]

3 minutes ago, OldandNerdy said:

I'd agree, there definitely seems to be an agenda for sure, especially with the disparity between instances of underage content on Facebook vs PH.  What was it, 84,000,000 instances for FB and 118 for PH?

 

Yes this is what I read too. Which makes me think it's a war on sex work as opposed to trafficking. You seldom see these groups talk about trafficking in other industries either, who according to this study have more reports of trafficking than the sex industry... https://www.humanrightsfirst.org/exploitation-and-private-sector#:~:text=Among the most profitable sectors,pimping both children and adults.  

I agree with you @Greenteal - it just makes me despair that in this day and age we are still bowing to these groups and putting peoples' livelihoods at risk as a result 😑 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, OldandNerdy said:

As for the verification model they've moved to, I agree it's a good idea, as it will cut down on a lot of the random " I picked up this drunk girl" type videos, but their verification process is a bit light.  I believe right now it's take a photo of yourself holding up a piece of paper with PornHub.com written on it.  Definitely not hard to spoof, especially depending on how they verify it.  I know they're saying they are going to enhance this process in the new year, but just how enhanced will it be?

     Only allowing registered professional content creators to post videos, would save a lot of problems. When you allow everyone to post copyrighted content and home videos, it's a great way to get in trouble.

     As for the " I picked up this drunk girl" video types, most of those are fake and part of the "reality TV" gimmick.  I'm more concerned with hidden dorm and hotel rooms videos posted by random users. This is where it gets a bit problematic.

[OldandNerdy 1303]

21 minutes ago, Greenteal said:

Only allowing registered professional content creators to post videos, would save a lot of problems. When you allow everyone to post copyrighted content and home videos, it's a great way to get in trouble.

The down side for this is that there's no real business model for them if they went this route. 

 

It would basically be another "Onlyfans" style site, where the verified content creators are there to sell their content.  What would draw people in to view any of that content?

 

The reason that the content providers do fairly well on PH right now, IMHO, is that there's a large amount of traffic to the site, and that brings potential content customers knocking on the provider's door.

 

If the millions of "free" videos weren't there, then the "browsing customers" would drop significantly.

 

This would put the majority of the onus back on the provider's needing to constantly advertise that they are on PH and try to draw people in.  

 

And what is the incentive for the providers to do this on yet another platform?  Why have PH, YP, OF, etc etc when you can pick a fairly popular and well known platform and drive all of your customers there instead?

 

In the end, "sex work" boils down to providing some sort of experience.  And like any experience based business, customer acquisition is costly and difficult. Especially for an experience that people think they can get "something similar for free" elsewhere. 

 

But hey back on topic... let's all just normalize sex work, get rid of the stigma, and make it safer for everyone involved.

 

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, OldandNerdy said:

But hey back on topic... let's all just normalize sex work, get rid of the stigma, and make it safer for everyone involved.

   That's not gonna happen anytime soon. And certainly not when views on the topic are so divided with polarized politics. The best we can hope for is to keep it out of public view. But have enough oversight to avoid abuse.

[Phaedrus 209521]

Yup. This is simply about the people who want to be in charge having decided that they don't like this, and they want it shut down. It's about power. They give absolutely no fucks about anyone being abused or exploited or anything like that.

The real problem here, IMO, is the immense power wielded by Visa and Mastercard. If those two companies shut you down, it becomes almost impossible to run a business online. It happened to Backpage, and before that Craigslist removed all SW ads in record time when they came under pressure. Now Pornhub is gone. Who's next? Given that LeoList has largely replaced Backpage, I can't help but think it's probably quite high on the list of targets.

In the long run what we really need is a much more diverse financial system, so we don't have these chokepoints where pressure can be successfully applied. But I have no idea how you'd set that up; it takes a long time for new players to gain the trust of the market...

[OldandNerdy 1303]

Thats one of the strengths of Cryptocurrency, it takes the power out of the hands of the financial institutions and back in the hands of individuals. 

 

It has a way to go before it's really ready for the masses. But it's getting pretty close!

 

 

[waterat 20911]

@lydiahardwood a timely day to start this thread. My Ottawa Independent Companions calendar (such gorgeous pictures) inform me that today is the "International Day to End Violence and Sex Workers".

It's important to recognize there's 'financial violence' of many forms in this business.

Just sent a donation of support and acknowledgment to OIC and I didn't use my Visa card.... though no doubt Visa has my bank by the short and curlies.

[Guest]

11 hours ago, OldandNerdy said:

Thats one of the strengths of Cryptocurrency, it takes the power out of the hands of the financial institutions and back in the hands of individuals. 

  Yes, But at the same time will reinforce the stigma of cryptocurrency being mostly used for illegal or immoral businesses. Like you said, there still a long way to go, before it becomes the new normal.

   Also, PH pretty much created this situation after years of neglect. No so long ago we could still find underaged Traci Lords videos on the site and other questionable content. Up to them to clean up their mess and keep themselves accessible for those making a living on the website.

[Phaedrus 209521]

And the war on porn continues: Mastercard is *really* cracking down. That means Visa probably won't be far behind.

Of course, this won't just affect the likes of Pornhub; it'll be a real problem for any site that sells adult content, including the sites and services that providers have been using to get through the pandemic.