What Will Happen??

[drlove 37204]

My biggest fear has been realized - Stephen Harper has attained a majority government. What this means for our industry in terms of future ramifications is still unclear, but it is unsettling. I feel that the potential appointment of right wing judges to the Supreme Court cannot bode well for the final outcome of the Bedford case, although I hope I am wrong. I worry about the Conservatives adopting a US style approach to prostitution, by passing new laws that are even more restrictive than the current ones. What do you see as the possible fall out / outcome for our industry over the next four years?

[Cato 160314]

I share your concerns, drlove.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

I asked this question in another thread and got no responses. I guess the answer is only time can tell. I share your concerns and what i fear is a scenario much worse than yours and that is the majority conservative government adopts the Nordic model (which is much worse than the US style) which bans prostitution altogether and sends hobbyists to six months in jail for having consensual sex, even outcalls in the privacy of their home with consenting adults!!!!!.

 

I repeat what I asked the day after the dark election day, and that was:

 

"if anyone cares (or dares) to comment on the consequences of a majority conservative government as far as hobbying is concerned???".

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

I have been told that Harper's government was getting slack for paying too much attention to the right winged Bible thumper's. I do hope I heard right?? I hope for our sake it is correct! I wish we would look at Australlia as a good example of controlled service.

[roamingguy 300292]

Well I'm hoping that the pragmatists outweigh the ideolouges in the party, and are focused on making a law workable for all. Prostitution isn't going away, no matter what law is passed...it is after all, the world's oldest profession. But unless a new law is passed illegalizing seeing escorts, I'll continue seeing ladies

I know, not really insightful, but hard to be insightful when we haven't even crossed that bridge yet

RG

[drlove 37204]

I wish we would look at Australlia as a good example of controlled service.

 

Exactly! That's what we need here. I believe it's Harper's moral ideology that's driving the backlash against adult entertainment, not so much the Conservative party per se. I live on the east coast, and I remember that during the Mulroney era, Halifax was a much more wide open city... it was basically a free for all when it came to what was available in terms of adult services. Slowly but surely over the past number of years, our industry as a whole has become increasingly marginalized here as concerns from vocal right wing opponents have captured the attention of lawmakers and law enforcement.

[Boomer 33202]

I think we have a few more years before they take action on this file. I don't think they will act until the Bedford decision is fully appealed and obviously that is going to be some time. Because Harper got his majority through basically a promise to be fiscally responsible, I think the religious right will have less influence if he has plans to get more than one majority term.

[Phaedrus 209521]

I have no idea, but I'm worried. I don't doubt that Harper would *like* to enshrine his ideas of morality in law; what I'm not at all sure about is how much of a priority this is. There's the fiscal responsibility thing, and his corporate paymasters will doubtless want a return on their investment, and even the zealots may have higher priorities than this industry, although like others I fear the Bedford case could provoke a backlash from them if it goes against the government.

[Gentleman11 10508]

CERB to me is a place to go to and have fun with friends, it a personal space for me and a place I am coming to cherish. Having said that, I want to say a couple of things and hopefully open some windows... a bit.

 

Government - After 7 years & 4 elections (2 of which were unnessary at $300 million each) , we need some healing time in this country in my humble view. Let's slow down a & lick our collective wounds & reflect a bit and most importantly count our blessings. We've got a country and living space that is literally the envy of the world.

 

Make no mistake, I'm not a fan of the initial moves of our new leader & his team has made, but all of us are responsible for the political system unto which his government has been elected. We have to live by our collective decision for the next 4 years, at least.

 

We've got one hell of a good place to live, prosper and grow - some would say "the envy of the world" - let's not forget that. I've have had the blessing of travelling throughout many parts of the world over a long period of time. One of the biggest lessons I've learned throuhout those travels is that Canada is argueably the best place in the world to "come home to"

 

Now, have to check out the best bums.....forgive me for ranting

 

Musings from guy who has a few miles under his belt....

 

G11

[trucido peritus lingua 2699]

Expect many laws to change. Harper is going to want to be able to rationalize all of those prisons he wants to build.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

Yes I agree Canada is best place to live and come back to as of now, and no body disputed this fact. However, I am not sure that it would remain the best place to live after 4-5 years of a majority conservative regime if the religious right oversee their agenda to fruitition and take away our freedom of choice and liberty or if the cons create a two tier society (the have and have not, by cut backs to the middle class and rewarding the rich and corporations or cutting social programs like health care and pensions). Lets hope none of those will happen but unlike a few weeks ago (when I urged cerbites not to vote for cons) we have no other option than waiting and hoping for the best. They now have a majority and they can do whatever they wish.

[Kubrickfan 12836]

I dont know much about the Conservative party in Canada, but there are elements of the Conservative movement in the United States that favor a libertarian/"hands off" approach to some of these issues. Maybe not a perfect example, but Nevada is a pretty conservative state that tends to vote republican, but its the only state that allows for some measure of prostitution. Obviously there are religious elements also that participate in the conservative movement in the United States, but they dont control that movement by any means.

 

It may work our better than you think.

[Guest W***ledi*Time]

... They now have a majority and they can do whatever they wish.

 

Technically yes. And there will be plenty that the Conservatives do over the course of the next four years which will not make me happy.

 

But, while the Conservatives are busy doing whatever they wish, they will also be remembering that one of the biggest things on their wish-list is to get re-elected on 19 Oct 2015. This should act as a major check-valve on the Harperites getting a full head of steam into an ideologically-driven legislative agenda. The Conservatives know that if they get too far off side, many voters will not continue to follow them come next election.

 

Also (and related to the above) is the fact that the character of the Conservative caucus has changed somewhat for the upcoming Parliament, and this will also hopefully exert a bit of a moderating effect. The bulk of the Conservative electoral gains in 2011 vs 2008 occured in Ontario, and the urban GTA in particular - by my count they gained 17 seats in the GTA, out of their Canada-wide gain of 24 seats. This means that all those urban Ontario Conservative MPs' voices will now be sitting within the Conservative caucus, reminding those in the party who may favour a more aggressive sort of "religiously-rightish" social-legislative agenda that ... voters in their ridings are not all that likely to be totally gung-ho in favour of such a programme.

 

Re Sex Work in particular:

 

It's not at all clear that the Conservatives will have the stomach to tackle the issues surrounding Sex Work unless they find themselves compelled by developments in the judicial system. It's rocky political ground. Remember that the Macleans/Angus Reid poll of 2009 showed that 60% of Canadians supported allowing prostitutes to work indoors or in brothels (30% opposed, and 10% were not sure). In 2010, the same poll results were 54% for, with 34% opposed and 12% not sure.

 

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=19551

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=170186&postcount=3

 

I would guess that the Conservative Government has enough problems on their plate, and also enough headaches that will come back to bite them during their coming mandate, that they would be unlikely to try to legislatively address the thorny issues surrounding Sex Work unless or until Bedford v Canada is resolved in the Supreme Court in favour of Bedford et al. That's not likely to be until later in their mandate, if at all. By the time the case reaches the Supreme Court, the majority of top-court justices will be conservative appointees. So an ultimate finding in favour of Bedford is by no means certain even then.

 

There's so many variables and possibilities currently up in the air that even the beginnings of an answer to the "What Will Happen?" question is anyone's guess.

 

As I've stated before, I'm a "cautious optimist":

 

http://www.cerb.ca/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=207952&postcount=21

 

If the current ruling in Bedford v Canada is ultimately upheld, the real battle will begin in the arena of politics ... and political activism. This will mean us. It is not impossible for populist activism to make a difference ... Conservative majority or not.

[Jazzitup 5652]

I really don't think there is much to worry about. There are a lot of other things that offer bigger political pay offs than this industry. Maybe I am nieve, but I think there are better targets than the escorting industry. Like abortion ....

[cat 262460]

As I have always said, when push comes to shove our industry will need to organize and that is coming sooner than later. If all of the sex workers in Canada sat down and compared little black books there isn't a government, industry or region that could claim they aren't listed. Don't for a minute think that there are not as many Conservatives in our little black books as anyone else and they all know it. I think that with a united presence and careful planning it will all work out.

 

cat

[canuckhooker 19203]

I love how folks assume that the "right wing" Conservatives are going to embrace the "nordic model" view of sex work, which comes out of Sweden primarily. In fact the prostitution law in Sweden was enacted by the Social Democrat Party, definitely situated on the left of the political spectrum. Arguably even more left than the NDP.

 

The assumption that Right wing/conservative is anti-sex work and left wing/socialists are all for it, should really took a good look at the situation around the world. Most places in the world the left of centre parties are way more restrictive, where the so-called right tend to be more libertarian.

 

The same with tying the Conservatives to the religious right. Remember in Ontario it is the Liberal party who has a strong tie to the Catholic church and is a supporter of our abomination of a school system. They support the Catholic school board, that despite being publicly funded, can refuse to hire non-catholic teachers, or make their new hires convert. Hooray for the Charter of rights on that one. The same Catholic school board that offers to write off kids "volunteer hours" for attending Anti-choice rallies.

 

You think that Harper is going to pander to organized religion? Wake up! You have been living with that for years. Ask Mr McGuinty how he stands on the volunteer hours for attending pro-life rallies or unifying the school systems, or obliterating the discriminatory hiring practices and you will not like the answer.

 

By the same token, if you think all practicing and devout religious folks are right wing crazies out to take away your rights, then maybe you should read about JS Woodsworth.

[Cato 160314]

Thanks again for your informed and thoughtful comments, WIT.

[crabtree 100]

Without Harper ever having a majority we really don't know what he will do or not do with the power of a majority. Almost as scary is that Layton is now heading the No.2 party. :(

[Capital Hunter 18263]

Remember that the Macleans/Angus Reid poll of 2009 showed that 60% of Canadians supported allowing prostitutes to work indoors or in brothels (30% opposed, and 10% were not sure). In 2010, the same poll results were 54% for, with 34% opposed and 12% not sure..

 

Yes also remember almost exact same percentage gave them a majority (39.6% approved their agenda and 60.4% opposed) but they are going ahead with it anyways. Not sure they would be concerned with what the 60% think really. I hope I am wrong.

 

Conservative MP Joy Smith made this specific proposal during the last Parliament:

 

Yes That is correct. And you know if they want to pass it through I am not sure jack Layton would be in a great position to oppose it either since he was caught in a MP in 1995 (may be he was innocent) and he doesn't want to show that he approves of bawdy houses by voting against it. Again I hope I am wrong.

[Lowdark 5613]

While everyone's concern is justified and we should always be prepared to safeguard our liberties and freedoms (all of them, not just the sex industry), we need not fear the Conservatives on this file just yet. They ran on and were elected because of their economic platform and Canada is a fairly, socially liberal country. Make no mistake, if the Conservatives do get around to this, it won't be for another two years or so, close enough to the next federal election and they'll be watching the polls like hawks. Like it or not, their election was not a moral carte blanche, but intstead an approval of their economic policies. And they have already said they have no intention of re-opening the debate on abortion, so for the time being, it appears that they are not prepared to wade into any moral issues.

 

And while I am not a card carrying member of any party and nor could I be described as living on either the Left or Right of the political spectrum, I am growing weary of hearing people denounce the results of the election based on the popular vote. Harper and the Conservatives benefitted from vote splitting on the left, allowing them to form a majority with less than half the popular vote. Yet I would wager that many of the people that are decrying this as an affront to democracy were not displeased when Jean Chretien's Liberals were elected to three concescutive majorities in the 90's by exploiting vote splitting on the right. People who claim to be opposed to our electoral system should be so based on principle, not because their favorite party didn't win. Somehow I doubt that's the case with the majority of people. A double standard is still a double standard, no matter who wins.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

Yes you are right Lowdark, however we have been debating the most recent federal election rather than the ones 13-17 years ago but you are correct. The liberals won a majority with I believe 42%-43% of popular vote then still not a true majority. That was why I said in my past posts that the entire electoral system of the country should be re-visited however I am not a constitutional expert as how.....

[SamanthaEvans 166767]

The Harper government does nothing without extensive polling. Unless the Canadian public suddenly decides that they do want the police to be peering through the curtains to monitor what goes on in the privacy of their homes and hotel rooms, I think it's unlikely that there will be major changes anytime soon. The clearest thing about the Bedford case is that the Supreme Court will get to have a crack at it... in two or three years. Maybe. New legislation may or may not follow that sometime later.

 

I don't think Canadians want a greater police presence in their lives. I think we prefer to keep our sexual choices and behaviours to ourselves. The folks on the far right and the far left who get in a lather about prostitution become very shrill very soon.

 

The best thing for is, for now, is to make sure that we all have accurate information about things like the so-called "Swedish model." For example, no one has been sent to prison for buying sex in Sweden under these laws. Men who are convicted of buying sex receive fines, like fines for speeding, even when they are repeat offenders. And, while the new laws did reduce street prostitution by (only) 40% in the first few years, the reports now are that things are much as they were before the laws came into force. That is, there's still street prostitution in major cities. Sex workers continue to work underground, on the Internet or, unfortunately, through pimps. The women can't be prosecuted for selling sex, it's true, but they still report very high levels of violence from the police. In other words, the things the laws were presumed to address have not changed.

 

I also think that we need to be very clear about the realities of street prostitution in Canada. Women who work outside are the main concern and for good reason. However, I'm too old and jaded to believe that new laws will protect anyone if the police departments don't consider them to be worth looking out for in the first place. Moreover, street sex workers have multiple problems and issues of which prostitution is not the most significant. Outdoor sex workers here in Vancouver have astoundingly high levels of serious mental illness, substance addictions and poverty. Unless we're seriously dedicated to addressing these problems, nothing aimed at eradicating prostitution is going to make a difference.

[drlove 37204]

I don't think Canadians want a greater police presence in their lives. I think we prefer to keep our sexual choices and behaviours to ourselves.

 

Exactly! It irks me to think that today's government and the religious/moral right believe they ought to have a say in this. I'm of the Liberal persuasion... wasn't it Trudeau who said something to the effect of "The State has no business in the bedrooms of the nation?"

[Guest s******ecan****]

In my view we are probably better off if the Bedford case is overturned (ie the current laws are re-instated).

 

The Conservatives are about to pass an Omnibus Crime bill that does not address the sex trade. If Bedford is overturned and the original laws upheld they will have an excuse to leave the current laws in place (something most of the party would likely prefer to do to avoid a potentially divisive debate).

 

If Bedford is ultimately upheld and all laws struck down then the Conservatives will be forced to create new laws and they will undoubtedly be restrictive (for example in their omnibus bill they are going against trends by cracking down and increasing penalties on marijuana trafficking) to the point of an all out prohibition.

[Lowdark 5613]

Yes you are right Lowdark, however we have been debating the most recent federal election rather than the ones 13-17 years ago but you are correct. The liberals won a majority with I believe 42%-43% of popular vote then still not a true majority. That was why I said in my past posts that the entire electoral system of the country should be re-visited however I am not a constitutional expert as how.....

 

Don't get me wrong, I definitely did not vote Conservative and I support a sincere dialogue on electoral and Senate reform, but I get frustrated when I hear complaints by people on political message boards and in day to day conversation and I know that they would defend the system if their party won. Your passion and affection for Canada is apparent and something to be proud of and your concern for its values and future is commendable. But we should always keep an eye on our values and freedoms, regardless of who wields power.