mrrnice2 157005 Report post Posted June 2, 2011 In an early post as a member of Cerb I recall writing about how nice it would be to have sex workers recognized and respected in society as valuable contributing members in the same sense as are educators, blue collar workers, civil service employees and so on. Wouldn't it be nice to have safe working conditions, pension plans, health benefits, maternity leaves, and all of the benefits that many employees have either in unionized or self employed situations. How naive I was (am). The issue is so complex. I do know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the industry as I have experienced it is high quality, involves women who are doing what they do by personal choice, (there certainly are long involved stories here that I am totally unaware of) and includes respect from both sides. The concept that I am participating in something that is illegal or even on the fringes of illegality is abhorent to me. For me it has been an important aspect of my life and in many ways despite some confusion, has been a large part of a healing process for me. Ms Laliberté indicated that the laws and solutions must come from the women involved in the industry. That is at least partially correct, but if you think about it, there are more men involved as clients than there are women as service providers. The men are not in the high risk area in the way that the women are, but they are in the criminalization risk area, and for that reason is there not a role for them in providing input? I hope that the men of Cerb are as concerned about the safety and well being of the SP's as the SP's should be themselves??? Do the sex worker organizations seek input from men and are there men who are on the boards or members? It has been pointed out that there are clearly at least two major groups of sex workers. The independents as we know here on Cerb are one group with their own ways of conducting business and then the street workers who are probably in an entirely different situation? Can one law or series of laws cover both of these groups? As mentioned, are there new laws required when we already have existing laws under the criminal code to cover abuse, assault, threats, underage sex and so on? Just some thoughts on a terribly complex issue after having read the article and as my opinions continue to evolve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SamanthaEvans 166767 Report post Posted June 3, 2011 The men are not in the high risk area in the way that the women are, but they are in the criminalization risk area, and for that reason is there not a role for them in providing input? I hope that the men of Cerb are as concerned about the safety and well being of the SP's as the SP's should be themselves??? The great majority of women in the sex trade do not want clients to face criminal charges for using our services consensually. When men are anxious, frightened or paranoid, they are much more likely to be dangerous, too. As for whether our clients--on Cerb or not--are as concerned about our safety and well-being as we are, unfortunately that's not an assumption any paid companion can afford to make. As you can see on this board, there are many debates about the safety and screening requirements companions may expect and whether potential clients consider these things to be reasonable, valid or necessary. Many men are more concerned about whether their partners will find out that they've spent time with a paid companion than about the companion's safety and well-being. Sadly, when clients are found out, they generally portray themselves as fine, up-standing men of unimpeachable moral character who would never cheat on their wives or partners and who would never be violent or abusive with anyone, particularly a woman. They will describe us as immoral, irresponsible, lying, cheating, drug-addicted and/or alcoholic, unreliable witnesses and perhaps mentally ill, as well. Even the priciest courtesan suddenly becomes a filthy hooker who is out to entrap a hapless, kind man who never saw her, didn't know who she was, had only offered to help her with something, or was in the wrong place at the wrong time. No matter how wonderful I am, what terrific care, attention and companionship I provide, I know that if a fire breaks out in the hotel when I'm visiting, the last person whose well-being will be on my client's mind is me. I'm interested in what men think about many things, but when they want access to my bed and my body, only my views about my safety matter: I'm the one who will live with the consequences. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SamanthaEvans 166767 Report post Posted June 4, 2011 In its simplest form I am indicating that as a client, potential criminalization also affects my life. Men who can express their roles and reasons for participating in these transactions could provide an additional logical rationale for decriminalization, and those reasons are sometimes more than simply wanting to get laid. This business involves two parties. Men as clients are subject to their own version of being stereotyped in the same way that you have listed the common ones about the women. I know that the stereoptypes quoted above are not true for the women that I have met. I am maybe more confident than you that your final sentence is also in large degree, in error. Mrrnice, I do agree with you. Potential criminalization affects the lives of our clients--absolutely! I don't think anyone should face the possibility of having a criminal record simply because he was ready to pay, or had paid, to have intimate companionship with a willing, consenting person. How a man spends his time with me and what we do or don't do together--including the willing exchange of money for time--should be no one's business but our own. I think it would be absolutely fantastic if many men would come forward and state, publicly, that they actively seek and enjoy the company of paid companions, massage providers, strippers and dancers. The public has an idea that most of the men who engage our time and services are profoundly deviant in many, many ways. This is absolutely false. I'm sure that all of the ladies here will join me in stating that our clients are ordinary, regular guys from all walks of life who usually would not have a problem finding unpaid female companionship if they wanted it. For many, it's simpler, cheaper, less risky to their marriages and families and less emotionally demanding over time to spend a few hours with one of us occasionally than it is to have an affair. For others who have little time to devote to a relationship, seeing us fulfills their need for intimacy and human contact which may or may not include sex. It's true that men with disabilities, disfigurements and physical limitations also seek our company. Why shouldn't they? The desire for physical connection, closeness and erotic engagement is a basic, human need that has nothing to do with physical abilities. It would gladden my heart if the public could understand that the men who visit me and others give every indication of being as stable, respectful, compassionate and non-violent as the men who never engage us. The anti-sex feminists and others have done a very fine job of convincing the general public that men who pay for sex always want violent, dangerous, degrading and dehumanizing things from their paid companions that no "normal" woman would reasonably agree to do. It's a lie that's difficult to combat. Every one of us who has been in this business for any significant length of time will have a few unfortunate stories to tell. Admittedly, some of us may have nightmares to relate, as well. We screen as carefully as we can, or as carefully as we think we can get away with, but we don't pick up on every subtle nuance or detail. Some men do approach us because they do, indeed, want things that are outside most of our boundaries. But those men are few and far between in my experience. I've been in the sex trade for years and entertained hundreds of men. Not one has ever harmed me physically. I do not consider my work to be traumatizing. I expect to retire one day, perhaps one day soon, and when I do, I don't anticipate coping with unpleasant memories. I can't say the same about my marriage, however. My ex-husband is a very manipulative, emotionally and psychologically abusive man who took deliberate, carefully calculated steps to harm me and our children, all within the confines of what appeared to be a very good, middle class, heterosexual relationship. He was dangerous, yet he acted within the limits of the law. My clients are not dangerous men and should not be forced to limit their actions by laws that don't apply to them or their needs, or to me and mine. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites