Scam Ads Endemic on LeoList in Thunder Bay

[Orpheo12 70]

@Greenteal's advice is solid. If an ad shows faces, it is likely a scam. I selected for not verified, unfamiliar, too explicit and/or too good to be true. I looked at six of 36 ads currently posted on Oct 14 or 15. All appear to be scams:. Every searched image turned up on multiple postings in diverse places.

Avery (aka Bunny) has 13 ads with six different escort agencies including five in several US states. Her primary cluster is six Leolist and two callescortgirls ads in Ontario and one in Northern BC. Maybe she tours a LOT?

Bella's pic is also on xvideos.com and vipgirlstr.net. Maybe a real gal early in her career?

Brandy's pic is also on Leolist for Delta BC and Orillia, but visual matches of the same gal (IMO) are endemic with many in Brazil.

Danniela had dozens of hits and identities, many as pornstar "Hailey Queen." Pics too XXX for Lyla.

Kelly's pics are everywhere, but the source is Russian porn-star "Eva Elfie."

The pics for Mila are not a perfect match, but there are many similar images from Ukrainian and Russian sources.

[Guest]

         If your goal is to expose all those ads, you're wasting your time.

     Older members will remember @Cowboy kenny who did the same and created a website "Cowboysdiary"(now closed) for that purpose. Without saying it was a complete waste of time, it was not the best approach to the problem.

      I won't take full credit as was an ex-admin(Mod_Cat) who suggested the creation of a tutorial to screen images and also point out other hints of fraudulent and deceptive intent.              

      When I expose or question an ad, I do for the purpose of education by pointing out the problems and tools used. If members/clients choose to ignore those advice, there no point in wasting our time for them.    

      As for singling out Thunder Bay, keep in mind those ads are published around the country. Names and pictures will change, but all come from the same groups. In cities/regions with less local providers those ads will obviously be more visible. If living in one of those regions, can only suggest vigilance and to either travel in a better served area or to petition travelling providers for more frequent visits.

       Hope this help a bit.

[Orpheo12 70]

15 hours ago, Greenteal said:

         If your goal is to expose all those ads, you're wasting your time.

     Older members will remember @Cowboy kenny who did the same and created a website "Cowboysdiary"(now closed) for that purpose. Without saying it was a complete waste of time, it was not the best approach to the problem.

      I won't take full credit as was an ex-admin(Mod_Cat) who suggested the creation of a tutorial to screen images and also point out other hints of fraudulent and deceptive intent.              

      When I expose or question an ad, I do for the purpose of education by pointing out the problems and tools used. If members/clients choose to ignore those advice, there no point in wasting our time for them.    

      As for singling out Thunder Bay, keep in mind those ads are published around the country. Names and pictures will change, but all come from the same groups. In cities/regions with less local providers those ads will obviously be more visible. If living in one of those regions, can only suggest vigilance and to either travel in a better served area or to petition travelling providers for more frequent visits.

       Hope this help a bit.

Thanks for the observations. I agree it is as effective as pissing on a housefire, and that Thunder Bay is not special. The primary goal was to show in a concentrated example just how invaluable your tutorial is. It would be news only if I had found a few (probable) real ads.

[MissArtois 102]

They're everywhere, know I'm a broken record on this subject but Loserlist is trash. I've reported ads to them with the pics in the ad, and the source it was stolen from, and never hear a peep nor are the offending ads ever removed. They just flat out don't give a shit, pardon my french. And still raising prices. 

[Orpheo12 70]

23 hours ago, MissArtois said:

They're everywhere, know I'm a broken record on this subject but Loserlist is trash. I've reported ads to them with the pics in the ad, and the source it was stolen from, and never hear a peep nor are the offending ads ever removed. They just flat out don't give a shit, pardon my french. And still raising prices. 

Yep. Same deal - provided evidence; nothing happened. Legit providers often pull their ads and all that remain are the scams. Exceptions: a few legit on tour.

[MissArtois 102]

26 minutes ago, Orpheo12 said:

Yep. Same deal - provided evidence; nothing happened. Legit providers often pull their ads and all that remain are the scams. Exceptions: a few legit on tour.

I know a handful of SW on social media and just a few in person, but they are saying they're fed up too and most are awaiting on account approval on Tryst.

 

LL has gotten away being shite way too long. I have to spend $15-20 on a single ad, just one day, for any chance of it being seen for all the scams there are. A week of LL costs more than a month of the other sites, and most have free tiers too.  It's nuts. 

 

People are getting more vocal about it, and by  word of mouth, registering for more sites... so feels like it's beginning to shift. Here's hoping 🤞

[Snow Whyte 14]

On 11/5/2022 at 9:19 PM, MissArtois said:

They're everywhere, know I'm a broken record on this subject but Loserlist is trash. I've reported ads to them with the pics in the ad, and the source it was stolen from, and never hear a peep nor are the offending ads ever removed. They just flat out don't give a shit, pardon my french. And still raising prices. 

I did the same and it just makes our work harder, being on page one 30 min between thousands of fake ads boosted to the max

[Guest]

     I don't want to sound like an ahole or an apologist. But if LL ain't useful in your area or you plain don't like it, you can stop using it!

  They're a business and are dealing with hundreds of thousands of ads on a daily basis. Their top priorities are to comply with current laws and to support paying customers and sponsors. Responding to complaints about fake or stolen pics, is not really one. Mostly if not from a paying member.

   I understand the frustration, but eternally complaining about it won't change a thing. When Craigslist and Backpage where the most popular advertising sites, complaints were the same.

   LL don't have a monopoly in regard to adult services ads. If you don't like, look elsewhere.

 

[Orpheo12 70]

10 hours ago, Necod said:

Seems to be a lot and I mean lot of sp at travel lodge anyone confirm if they are real or fakes ?

 

6 hours ago, Greenteal said:

     I don't want to sound like an ahole or an apologist. But if LL ain't useful in your area or you plain don't like it, you can stop using it!

  They're a business and are dealing with hundreds of thousands of ads on a daily basis. Their top priorities are to comply with current laws and to support paying customers and sponsors. Responding to complaints about fake or stolen pics, is not really one. Mostly if not from a paying member.

   I understand the frustration, but eternally complaining about it won't change a thing. When Craigslist and Backpage where the most popular advertising sites, complaints were the same.

   LL don't have a monopoly in regard to adult services ads. If you don't like, look elsewhere.

 

 Check out the Deluge of new ads in TB. 30 all never seen before. If that is not carpet-bombing the legit ads, what is? Makes me think LL is literally in the pocket of (or masterminding) the scammers. I know you hold a different opinion, but suggest you give the  perspectives offered by the working SP's more weight. This is not a new complaint. It is an epidemic.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Orpheo12 said:

Check out the Deluge of new ads in TB. 30 all never seen before. If that is not carpet-bombing the legit ads, what is? Makes me think LL is literally in the pocket of (or masterminding) the scammers. I know you hold a different opinion, but suggest you give the  perspectives offered by the working SP's more weight. This is not a new complaint. It is an epidemic.

     Again, they are dealing with hundreds of thousands of new ads on a daily basis. In order to filter all of those for legitimacy, they would need a lot more staff and their rates would skyrocket to ridiculous level.

     The idea of them "masterminding the scammers" is ridiculous. After Backpage was shut down, they were immediately put on notice by law enforcement and advocacy groups. That was over four years ago. Yes, they will likely be shut down in the next months or years. But for the time being they're done considerable efforts to comply with criminal laws and to satisfy advertisers.

       As for scammers, their presence is not because of bribes to LL, but simply because too many people send them money. Something I addressed in this thread:

        Scam or voluntary donation? - Lyla

      The moment peoples will start reading, understanding those ads and STOP sending money, that form of scam will stop being profitable. But as long grown adults will believe young Instagram models are waiting for them in cheap motel rooms, those ads will remain. 

         

[MissArtois 102]

19 hours ago, Greenteal said:

     I don't want to sound like an ahole or an apologist. But if LL ain't useful in your area or you plain don't like it, you can stop using it!

  They're a business and are dealing with hundreds of thousands of ads on a daily basis. Their top priorities are to comply with current laws and to support paying customers and sponsors. Responding to complaints about fake or stolen pics, is not really one. Mostly if not from a paying member.

   I understand the frustration, but eternally complaining about it won't change a thing. When Craigslist and Backpage where the most popular advertising sites, complaints were the same.

   LL don't have a monopoly in regard to adult services ads. If you don't like, look elsewhere.

 

With due respect, a lot of us do not want to use leolist at all, because of these issues but the problem is they're the big fish. Can I ask why you're so defensive of them when you yourself see the issues?

 

And it's not true that they can't respond to these issues, I've had ads Ive placed calling their shit out removed in a matter of ten minutes 😂 it's not that they can't moderate, they don't want to because they know they're almost obligatory to use if an escort is low or midrange. Some of us don't have the clout for the luxury of being able to post exclusively on tryst or vip etc. 

 

Yes craigslist and BP had issues but THEY charged max of $5-10 an ad, not an entry point being $15 for an ad, going up to $20 or $25. And yeah inflation but even so, literally nobody looks past page one, people would for Backpage when I posted there. 

 

Edit: Oh! Here's some scumminess I didn't know about as a longtime user of Leolist, that explains a lot of the fake ads.

 

This is according to a new to the biz SW I've spoken with on Twitter. I've had a verified LL account for 4 yrs, she only recently verified her acct.

 

Apparently if you're registering on Leolist with a new acct, if you don't verify you get a free bump a day. FREE. If you verify you lose it. What does this mean? 

 

Scammers are using this bullshit to their advantage, they're getting away with all these ads because it's costing them nothing to do this, and Leolist has given them the incentive and opportunity with this policy to do this. 

 

It is bullshit and sorry I may be repetitive but I'm not going to shut up about it... *That said* I'll pick my battles and not chime in ~every~ time LL is mentioned...though I could 😉

 

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MissArtois said:

With due respect, a lot of us do not want to use leolist at all, because of these issues but the problem is they're the big fish. Can I ask why you're so defensive of them when you yourself see the issues?

     I see plenty of issues. But they are a private business and will operate in a profitable way until they are shut down or face bankruptcy. If you don't agree with their rates or terms of services, you can try other websites or join existing groups who'll take care of advertisements.

     There plenty of problems with LL, other advertising websites and this includes this forum who regularly allows new members to post ads for foreign agencies. But continuously complaining is not the solution. If people refuse to educate themselves and look for safer and better alternatives, not much can be done for them.

      Maybe one day we'll see partial décriminalisation and avoid the current restrictions in term of advertisement and communication. But for the time being, this is what we're stuck with. Either learn from it, create your own options or plain quit. 

[MissArtois 102]

You do you, I'll do me. Cheers:)

 

Edit: Swear I'm leaving it after this 😅 but FWIW, posting about it *has* tuned some people onto their shit when they were previously unaware.

 

Enough people? Not yet, but it's had some benefit. I'll reserve when I do, but it isn't entirely pointless to post publically about their BS.

 

Anyhow, thanks for your perspective, my best to you. 

[Orpheo12 70]

@MissArtois said, "Apparently if you're registering on Leolist with a new acct, if you don't verify you get a free bump a day. FREE. If you verify you lose it. What does this mean?"

We understand what it means. Yet more evidence.

I too tire of chiming in yet again objecting to the victims being blamed for being scammed. In what other crime would that logic hold?  Domestic abuse?

I am glad to hear that some are getting it. But those who wander into the minefield do not know it's there, nor do they have the wisdom of reading Lyla first.

What makes Tryst or VIP unaffordable? If no legitimate SW's used LL wouldn't that accelerate its demise? My recommendation remains that if a provider advertises on LL, ALWAYS warn about scammers and link to a Lyla thread or identity.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Orpheo12 said:

I too tire of chiming in yet again objecting to the victims being blamed for being scammed. In what other crime would that logic hold?  Domestic abuse?

     There two sides to this:

   First, the providers. I understand their frustration if they pay for ads and don't quite get the visibility and support they expected. Also, the more information and real pictures they post, the greater the chance of either being identified or getting their identity stolen. But as much we praise real pictures and transparency, no providers should feel obligated to post real pictures and even less reveal their faces. This decision should remain their own. Transparency can open some doors. But as some expressed here, this can also create challenging situations. Reason why the decision shouldn't be taken lightly.

    And then we got clients browsing websites for free and making little to no research before communicating or sending money to a complete stranger. Those same persons later complain online after falling for obvious scams and somehow thinks the website has a responsibility to respond to them. If you or others want to report ads in violation with their terms of services, you can. But keep in mind their staff will prioritize paying clients before anonymous complaints.

    If you strongly feel some ads are in violation of the Canadian criminal codes, you're more than welcomed to report them to law enforcement. But I'm pretty sure they'll prioritize clear cases of human trafficking over someone getting "catfished".

[Orpheo12 70]

13 minutes ago, Greenteal said:

     There two sides to this:

   First, the providers. I understand their frustration if they pay for ads and don't quite get the visibility and support they expected. Also, the more information and real pictures they post, the greater the chance of either being identified or getting their identity stolen. But as much we praise real pictures and transparency, no providers should feel obligated to post real pictures and even less reveal their faces. This decision should remain their own. Transparency can open some doors. But as some expressed here, this can also create challenging situations. Reason why the decision shouldn't be taken lightly.

    And then we got clients browsing websites for free and making little to no research before communicating or sending money to a complete stranger. Those same persons later complain online after falling for obvious scams and somehow thinks the website has a responsibility to respond to them. If you or others want to report ads in violation with their terms of services, you can. But keep in mind their staff will prioritize paying clients before anonymous complaints.

    If you strongly feel some ads are in violation of the Canadian criminal codes, you're more than welcomed to report them to law enforcement. But I'm pretty sure they'll prioritize clear cases of human trafficking over someone getting "catfished".

I agree with your first para, but was not suggesting otherwise.

I agree that many who get scammed are foolish, but that's the world. Scolding them here won't stop the abuse. Like blaming a cognitively-impaired elder for sending money to a long-lost grandchild.

I made no reference to specific scams and after having spoken to local police about a scam for which I had evidence in hand, it is pointless. This KIND OF scamming is industrial, likely backed by rogue nations raking in many millions a month - that is not an opinion. as for any one ad; no saying.

In the news today was a Canadian ransomware extortionist who many multimillions personally, backed by the Russian mob. When society tolerates this KIND OF abuse, society is funding the murder of Ukrainian civilians. So legalization and regulation is the real solution, IMO.

 

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Orpheo12 said:

I agree that many who get scammed are foolish, but that's the world. Scolding them here won't stop the abuse. Like blaming a cognitively-impaired elder for sending money to a long-lost grandchild.

      Paying for potential illegal services doesn't remotely compare to your example. And if they complain online after, they fully deserve the scolding. Mostly if they still refuse to learn from it.

7 minutes ago, Orpheo12 said:

When society tolerates this KIND OF abuse, society is funding the murder of Ukrainian civilians.So legalization and regulation is the real solution, IMO.

     The real solution is to STOP sending money! We got plenty of free and easy access tools to see who's real and safe. Don't need tech giants and governments to figure that out.

[Orpheo12 70]

1 hour ago, Greenteal said:

      Paying for potential illegal services doesn't remotely compare to your example. And if they complain online after, they fully deserve the scolding. Mostly if they still refuse to learn from it.

     The real solution is to STOP sending money! We got plenty of free and easy access tools to see who's real and safe. Don't need tech giants and governments to figure that out.

We seem to lock horns, my friend. IMO a scam is a scam is a scam. ALL are criminal activities.

As for the THEY you would scold, I suggest 999 out of 1000 of them never read your warning, before or after. Telling them to smarten up here is as pointless as "pissing on a house fire" too. 

Peace?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Orpheo12 said:

We seem to lock horns, my friend. IMO a scam is a scam is a scam. ALL are criminal activities.

As for the THEY you would scold, I suggest 999 out of 1000 of them never read your warning, before or after. Telling them to smarten up here is as pointless as "pissing on a house fire" too. 

Peace?

      One doesn't need to read my warnings and tutorials to understand they are seeking services with questionable legality. Ignorance of the law is NOT an excuse. And certainly not when one can literally ask their phones for legal advice and get clear answers.

      With the risks of losing money, their freedom and potentially their lives, incentives to learn are there. I will not sympathize with anyone going blind.

  

[MissArtois 102]

On 11/10/2022 at 5:07 PM, Greenteal said:

irst, the providers. I understand their frustration if they pay for ads and don't quite get the visibility and support they expected. Also, the more information and real pictures they post, the greater the chance of either being identified or getting their identity stolen. But as much we praise real pictures and transparency, no providers should feel obligated to post real pictures and even less reveal their faces. 

Just want to mention something FWIW, I'm face hidden in my ad below the nose- it's possible to verify and maintain privacy. Some won't even go above neck and if they have any identifying marks like tattoos/birthmarks they can blur those out.

 

I very much agree providers shouldn't be required to be face out, and they should be able to conceal identifying marks but speaking as a provider I think it's kind of bollocks to use someone else pics. Even if it's representative of their body type, it's still deceiving people. Taking and editing photos can be DIY'd cheap and easily on cell phone  with a $10 BT shutter and $5 cell phone tripod too so I don't feel the "pics are expensive" argument holds water. My 2c

[Guest]

3 hours ago, MissArtois said:

I very much agree providers shouldn't be required to be face out, and they should be able to conceal identifying marks but speaking as a provider I think it's kind of bollocks to use someone else pics. Even if it's representative of their body type, it's still deceiving people. 

     I'm fine with stock pictures as long they offer a fair representation.

  But I agree with you in regard to using pictures of other providers. It certainly creates confusion, mostly when from someone serving the same regions. Real pictures are better. But for someone who prefer not to, there more than enough stock picture to choose from.

[StephanieMystique 1891]

On 11/8/2022 at 6:51 PM, Greenteal said:

     I don't want to sound like an ahole or an apologist. But if LL ain't useful in your area or you plain don't like it, you can stop using it!

  They're a business and are dealing with hundreds of thousands of ads on a daily basis. Their top priorities are to comply with current laws and to support paying customers and sponsors. Responding to complaints about fake or stolen pics, is not really one. Mostly if not from a paying member.

   I understand the frustration, but eternally complaining about it won't change a thing. When Craigslist and Backpage where the most popular advertising sites, complaints were the same.

   LL don't have a monopoly in regard to adult services ads. If you don't like, look elsewhere.

 

Actually... Speaking on SEO terms and google hits LL does have the monopoly. It's typically the top 1 or 2 spots on search engines. We'd lose a ton of traffic/and new clients from it. Yes it's the most expensive site for advertising nevermind all the conversions fees from fiat currency to crypto and back to regular currency to add the the expense. As someone starting out new or not weeks booked out in their schedule it'd be hard not to place any type of advertising on LL. 

 

 The regular person or new to the industry client isn't going to know how to validate the sites and providers at the same time. No one spends time looking pass the top three links, even in regular searches. 

 

Looking at LL side of business... It's forcing us to bump our ads more often thus them making more money.  

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, StephanieMystique said:

 Actually... Speaking on SEO terms and google hits LL does have the monopoly. It's typically the top 1 or 2 spots on search engines. We'd lose a ton of traffic/and new clients from it. Yes it's the most expensive site for advertising nevermind all the conversions fees from fiat currency to crypto and back to regular currency to add the the expense. As someone starting out new or not weeks booked out in their schedule it'd be hard not to place any type of advertising on LL. 

 The regular person or new to the industry client isn't going to know how to validate the sites and providers at the same time. No one spends time looking pass the top three links, even in regular searches. 

 Looking at LL side of business... It's forcing us to bump our ads more often thus them making more money.  

     As a business, LL are not in an enviable position. Bill C-36 came into law one year after they went into business and law enforcement been breathing down their neck since BP was shut down. And that's on top of the fact they been constantly criticized from all sides for years. And with the current state of the economy and uncertainties in the tech world, it's unsure how long they'll stay in business.

     I understand your argument in regard to visibility and convenience. But as already mentioned, this won't last forever. Hopefully we'll see amendments in the near future and simpler ways to advertise and do business.

[Orpheo12 70]

Screening of 35 Thunder Bay Leolist ads, Nov 9-11:

Of over 40 ads including groups, sponsored links, online ads were excluded, and a dozen more new ads have appeared on Nov 12-13.

Of the 35 screened, 13 were proven fake and reported, using established pornstar pics (RealSkyBri, Daisy Taylor, Bella Rolland, Lilith of Tryst-NY, Oksana) or posted in 20+ ads in many countries, websites, and numerous identities. Of these five (5) remain up; It is doubtful any were actually "removed" by Leolist.

Another five (5) were judged as very likely to be fake with many LL ads in many places, but without being able to prove how many were posted at the same time, they might be VERY active touring.

Another four (4) with numerous LL ads were dubious but inconclusive -- judged suspect but more likely to be legitimate than the previous five, with consistent identities and phone numbers.

Thirteen (13) were judged as probably for confidently legitimate: two are Lyla-reviewed touring - @Bray and Emily Rushton; one is a regular local judged as probably legit; three (3) more appear to be established touring escorts with other LL ads spaced out over time in a reasonable geographical region. Seven (7) more had no red flags or other evidence to suggest they were fake, but could be.

Yandex searches of selected pics were used. Other markers of likely fakes - full faces, casual "dating" poses, or too sexually-explicit. Known legit are discrete with identities but poses are clearly "escort" in nature.

The study began when the number of convincing-looking ads doubled or tripled in a few days. When almost half of these are definitely scammers, a great many may have been scammed, and yet none appear here or anywhere else to protest? But more shocking to me is how can Thunder Bay support 10-20 legitimate touring escorts at the same time? Others frequently seen in Thunder Bay have mostly not been advertising in this same period.

Seven others posted with VIP Favours. One is the same person under two-three identities. One is an en established local under a different name. None were proven false with stolen pics.

Two other active Thunder Bay providers reviewed on Lyla did not advertise at all.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Orpheo12 said:

The study began when the number of convincing-looking ads doubled or tripled in a few days. When almost half of these are definitely scammers, a great many may have been scammed, and yet none appear here or anywhere else to protest? But more shocking to me is how can Thunder Bay support 10-20 legitimate touring escorts at the same time? Others frequently seen in Thunder Bay have mostly not been advertising in this same period.

     To be clear, I don't like using LL. No matter the number of providers serving in specific regions/cities, it's frustrating to use.

  That being said, it's not without some merit. When searching for more information about specific providers, it's far more effective as they allow pieces of information many other ads websites won't.

   As a business, I doubt their current situation will remain sustainable for many years. It's obvious C-36 and the BP seizure forced a lot of changes on their part. And with the current struggles of big tech companies and cryptocurrencies, more changes are likely to come. Will likely come in the form of a reduction or ban of adult services ads or simply file for bankruptcy. I could be completely wrong about the outcome, but changes will come sooner than later.

    As for your study, I'm not gonna say you're wasting your time. But focusing on the negative and pointing out the obvious won't change the situation and eventual outcome.

    Would suggest alternative sources and services. There's nothing healthy in beating a dead horse.