roamingguy 300292 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 I'm not standing up for either side, I'm just saying that I understand his reaction. Had Malika mentioned in her profile or website that she was a Wiccan, fine. No problem. However I believe that she doesn't. Therefore, my agreeability with the client. I think had Malika been forthcoming with her religious views, she'd have no reason to be upset, nor would the client. But this is not an area that we normally talk of religious views, therefore I understand both her frustration with the client, and the client's struggle with the SP's views... I frankly don't understand his reaction AT ALL!!!...that she is trash and should die What did Malika do that warrants someone hating her so much that he wishes death on her. How can that reaction be understood Why should Malika have to be forthcoming about her religious beliefs, any more than any other lady. No reasonable gentleman cares, it's only an issue for the nutbars that the ladies run into from time to time Malika, I'm 100% behind you on this, IMHO you did nothing wrong. The guy is just out there, maybe something to warn the other ladies on the SP only site RG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest 9**A***** Report post Posted June 21, 2011 I'm sorry if I don't side with you Malika, but... we are a fantasy... The last thing that someone who's paying 200$+ an hour, wants to see is something that goes against all that he believes in... Hence your pentagram. You understand that being a "witch" is what it is... But others don't... We can hide the photos of our mom or dad, and the like, to show that we're not someone's child or sister. However, we then expect the client to accept our religious views, based on the sigil that we wear around our neck. I believe that our religion is something that we have to hide during our work hours, especially if we have views that aren't respected like the rest of them. *(Or should I say religions that don't fall with the norm...) We don't want clients seeing us as a child, or a sister or a daughter... I think the same falls into seeing us as a "witch", or buddhist or a catholic. I think that he may have had rights to how he felt, as the pentagram is seen as a negative sigil in normal life. He didn't know that it was a Wiccan/Religious sigil, but probably thought that the pentagram had something to do with Satanism, unfortunately... I think that honestly, you shouldn't wear your sigil, as well as your books should be hidden... Just like a crucifix should be hidden from clients... It may be who you are, but it's not who you are for that booked hour. You can't think as a Wiccan on this one... He saw your pentagram and saw satanism or just something that doesn't relate to his religion. I understand how this can happen, I had to deal with me parents once like this for the same reason... We have to be "that" person for the hour/half hour. Catholicism or Wiccanism have nothing to do with who we are, for that moment... We are for them. Period. Missed point of thread... Now seeing someone based on their religious views can't be used... I don't know what most people's views are when it comes to religion... We don't post what we think. Yes it may come out in the long run, but there's no section on my profile that says, I am ..... We don't know what we are, until we meet. It's only then that we can make a decision. So I don't think that it's fair that you wear a pentagram. All in all, being part wiccan, I'm frustrated that he would see it as a "witch" sigil. Yet, I understand why he did. Your points are very excellent Sara (as always) and I agree with you on much of what you said. I am an athiest yet have many bibles and other religious books/mythologies on my shelf that I have collected over the years out of interest. If I had a friend or girlfriend over and she saw just one of these that wasn't of her own religon, should she come to a conclusion about me? If she saw a butchered goat in my basement, then sure, I would agree that she should form an impressoin of me, but a book on a shelf or a pendant should not a fantasy ruin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrgreen760 37785 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 Politics and religion have no place in the bedroom, fouton or couch lol.. Who would care? My screening is based on other critera completely. Oh well takes all kinds I guess. Peace MG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phaedrus 209521 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 Well, first up - Malika, I'm sorry you had to put up with this. Really not cool at all. But I'm afraid I can't help laughing at this guy... Why was he so offended? Presumably because the pentagram offended his more mainstream religious beliefs... but what would those religious beliefs have to say about the fact that he was visiting you in the first place? I presume it's not too much of a stretch to imagine he wasn't just showing up for a nice cup of tea and an hour of polite conversation? What would his family and fine, upstanding religious comrades think if they knew? Would they be more shocked the the fact that he'd seen a pentagram, or by the circumstances under which he saw it? If it's any consolation, Malika - he'd probably love to be able to talk to someone about this too. But he probably can't. And you can. WIN!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest f***2f*** Report post Posted June 21, 2011 I don't really agree with Sara. While I realize there is fantasy here for the client I personally really like to get to know the lady a little and discuss lots of different topics etc. A limited sharing of ourselves makes the chemistry even better. I love to be able to ask after a lady's family or how things are going for her and let her share whatever she feels comfortable to share and vice versa. If she is not comfortable of course I don't ask or share myself. It is true that this guy totally disrespected you Malika and he was way out of line. As Mia and others have said, tolerance and respect were lacking here and that is not cool at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PAPERSILO 41 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 i am sorry you had to go thru this , but we do live in a society of freedoms . we are allowed to chose are lifestyles , our religions , our right to be a complete ass . it is unfortunate he cannot show you the proper respect for your choices instead of his believe what you want as long as you agree with me atitude . on the bright side , he is now out of your life and you can continue to be the fun , charming , engaging lady that you are . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VedaSloan 119179 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 If ignorance is the issue' date=' reserve judgment, ask questions and educate yourself. Ignorance is no excuse.Posted via Mobile Device You took the words right out of my mouth. I tried to give you rep points, but I have to spread them around first. Haha. I agree with you in the sense that we don't hide who we are... Yet it does no say on Malika's profile anywhere, that she is Wiccan. Therefore the gentleman did not act against to who she was in her profile... How should he react to the sigil though? Honestly? From the client's sense, do you stop what you expected to be your hottest moment of the week, to have a religious discussion about what you deem right or wrong? I'm not standing up for either side, I'm just saying that I understand his reaction. Had Malika mentioned in her profile or website that she was a Wiccan, fine. No problem. However I believe that she doesn't. Therefore, my agreeability with the client. I think had Malika been forthcoming with her religious views, she'd have no reason to be upset, nor would the client. But this is not an area that we normally talk of religious views, therefore I understand both her frustration with the client, and the client's struggle with the SP's views... There is no right or wrong answer here, unfortunately. I do believe that you (who is reading this post) will side with whichever religion/lifestyle has more meaning to you. I'm not siding with either or, one is my friend, the other a possible client... However, I do think of this in a business sense... As an escort, do/can you incorporate religion? or As an escort corporation, should/can you act on religion? I totally disagree with you here Sara. The fact that Malika doesn't put it out there that she's Wiccan has nothing to do with it. If a client came into my space and saw something that he found offensive and felt the need to tell me that I was trash and should die? I can tell you right now, he'd get a swift kick in the ass right out the door. Religion has nothing to do with it here. He could have been offended by ANY thing and it would still be an unacceptable response on his part. I've had clients say some racist things upon seeing photos of me posing with Bedouin in the Jordanian desert, I've had clients notice gay porn on my bookshelf and make comments. And in both instances, I most definitely spoke my mind. You had best believe that if you come into my space with bullshit comments, I'm going to interrupt your fantasy to tell you. But I have never had a client notice anything and then tell me that I was trash and should die because of it. It doesn't matter what he was reacting to, it was absolutely despicable of him to say so. And telling her that she should post it on her website? Ridiculous. Should I post on my website that I think Bedouin are totally cool and that I like to wank off to gay porn? Just to make sure I don't offend some potential client? I THINK NOT. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cowboy kenny 50799 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 Malika, I'm sorry to hear this happened to you , but glad that you chose to bring it forward here for feedback and advice. This situation has raised some interesting discussion and unique perspective, the varied backgrounds and beliefs of the diverse membership here at cerb has created a wonderful and thoughtful thread. We can all take away something form the thoughts shared here. While we don't necessarily agree with one another it's refreshing to see different viewpoints and beliefs discussed in a civil and respectful manner! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jabba 18389 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 I think it's pretty easy to get sidetracked with religious and professional conduct issues here. I think the core of the discussion was that Malika welcomed this person into her house and offer her services without the intent to offend anyone. The individual observed some icons and took it as an obligation to object and berate her over a difference of beliefs. Personally, where does one draw the line over what is objectionable? Burning a candle could be considered to be representative of pagan rituals (pre christian btw)...I think this guy was totally out of line. Malika is a sweet, welcoming individual. She should not be treated to such disrespect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malika Fantasy 144625 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 oh wow...thanks everyone that show me some support in private or public! I wasn't expecting that. I really didnt have the intention to turn this thread into a religious debate...I just wanted to ask the opinion of people as about how they would react about it... Now...I will fly away on my magic broom and with my pointy hat Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ser***der Report post Posted June 21, 2011 There is no right or wrong decision when it comes to personal choice (within limits). Personal choice in this case is both what you believe in and how you express it. The parentheses above really capture the issue, within limits. For you, and many others on CERB, within limits implies consentual, non-coerced decisions, in any situation. For many others, within limits means "what I do". Society is pushed forward by the former and held back by the latter, and, all in all, it works, if slowly. Clearly I am in the first group. :) As for being hurt, I will ask you the one question that was asked of me in a similar situation, why did his opinion matter? You are who you are. Answering that one question has for me unlocked a whole world of insight. Hope this helps... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrrnice2 157005 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 Malika, that is so unfortunate that this has occurred and the person in question is someone who needs to do some self reflection in terms of understanding others, tolerance and having respect for different opinions. For me as a hobbyist it is meeting new people and learning about their interests, their goals, and their ways of thinking that has become one of the most intriguing features for me. I for one like to know a bit about the women that I come in contact with and because of that interest and their willingness to relate with me I have learned a great deal about such a wide variety of things. The spirituality that is embraced by so many, and that is expressed in such a wide variety of different means is both touching and uplifting. I have learned a great number of life lessons from SP's and Sara is correct that it is fantasy, but if I ever felt that it was all just show or total make believe then I might as well start booking those 30 minute sessions. Malika, you are who you are and I for one would like you to continue to be the free spirit that I am seeing. You have lots of support! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nicolette Vaughn 294340 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 This thread has nothing to do with religion and that it is only a factor in what's happening here and i see it more and more, it's called disrespect and ignorance at the higest level. How can you be intimate with someone one minute and in the next breath you're telling them that they are trash and should die? I am stunned. Beyond stunned actually. If someone was telling me ( an experienced SP btw) this in a most intimate moment, they would be at the maximum risk of having their balls grabbed so tightly he would wish he was the one who was dead followed by a tongue lashing with his clothes thrown out the door probably with a glass vase for good measure as well. I can't even imagine this happening. Her books, her belongings or anything else that was not brought up in a dicussion was not his business and he should have kept his big mouth shut or left if he felt that uncomfortable. But no... he still got laid while being able to verbally abuse her at the same time. This is the issue at hand here. No one should have to endure this and yes, it is abuse and it is not about having to hide your things especially if is not a topic of conversation for the client to even have a point of view. Does it really matter now about having to keep a fantasy alive even though the guy is a huge D-bag? No, of course not. He probably would have stuck his foot in his mouth by saying something else that was equally offensive. Sorry for the rant but this thread has made me really upset and disturbed ( and it takes a lot to get me to this pojnt) and I know Malika you haven't been in business that long so don't let this deter you. It is obviously a learning experience and what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. Hugs to you. xoxo 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silverado17 12689 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 sorry to hear that happened to you Malika what you have in your place is nobody's business maybe he should of went and walked around a store first before going to your place if he wanted to check out what you had kinda nosey i think Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meg O'Ryan 266444 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 Malika, I am sorry you had to deal with such an ignorant individual. While it is true, we are providing a fantasy; I doubt any of us are Academy Award worthy actors and some of our real qualities and personality traits are what make us interesting enough to visit. Be who you want to be Malika, don't ever loose your individuality; especially not because of one person's shortcomings! 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
renegade 11027 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 Religeous discussions aside my concern is this is a guy visiting an sp that snaps when seeing something he either does not understand or takes completely out of context,what else might make him go off ? 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rickkm 328 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 Needless to ask perhaps, but did the encounter go the distance or you basically told him to leave? Regardless, the guy is obviously weird so take it for what it is..... a bad encounter....don't change anything, keep being yourself.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waterrat 1261 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 Malika, I am sorry that you were hurt. People who react the way that man did do not understand so many things. They are poorer for it. WR Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest s******ecan**** Report post Posted June 21, 2011 I am sorry to hear of this experience Malika, no one deserves to be treated in this matter. To answer your question an SP's spiritual beliefs are none of my business, nor would I refuse to see someone based on those beliefs should I learn of them. Stay encouraged Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alexandra-Sky 12606 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 This is interesting because to me sex is VERY political, especially when it's with an escort... Politics and religion have no place in the bedroom, fouton or couch lol.. Who would care? My screening is based on other critera completely. Oh well takes all kinds I guess. Peace MG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reddog2402 2221 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 Wow, this has turned into quite the discussion! First off - Malika, I'm sorry you had to deal with such ignorance and hostility. 2nd, I have to complement everyone who has weighed in on the discussion. This thread has gone on for several pages with eloquent expressions of opinions and ideas, including disagreements, but everyone has kept it civil and honest, and have offered a lot of support to a friend and colleague who had a bad experience. This type of discussion is one of the things I love the most about our little community. Finally, my two cents: I don't think someone's religious beliefs really come into play between a service provider and a client - the experience, while it is a fantasy, is about intimacy, closeness, or even spirituality in a certain sense. But it's got nothing whatsoever to do with religious beliefs. As someone else once said: "Religion is like a penis: It's fine to have one, and it's fine to be proud of it. But please don't use it as an excuse to criticize anyone who doesn't have one, and don't whip it out in public and start waving it around, and please don't try to shove it down my children's throats!" 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MightyPen 67414 Report post Posted June 21, 2011 I'm actually having some trouble figuring out from Malika's original post just what the client actually said, and how much was Malika's interpretation of a look on the client's face. Makes it hard for me to understand and evaluate exactly what happened. It's enough to know that Malika was left hurt, though, to be pretty sure the guy conducted himself very badly. Barring some kind of arrangement made ahead of time, I certainly don't think an SP should have to conceal her personal belongings so she can present a blank, featureless canvas to her client. If I'd spotted them, I'd have thought Malika's Wiccan trappings were fascinating and could lead to some great conversation. If the place is clean, the woman interesting and engaged, then why would gleaning some personal information interfere with the SP/client experience? Is the guy's image of a sexy woman really so frail and narrow, that it can be shattered by spotting a deck of cards? Yikes. Plus, I have to echo November's comment that it's the height of ego and witless hypocrisy for a guy to show up as a client for a quasi-legal service, and then harangue someone about their morality of their own personal religious choices. Geez! Some people are just thick. Good riddance. Best wishes, Malika -- I hope you have much better experiences, and soon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bcguy42 38594 Report post Posted June 30, 2011 My question is...would you see an SP knowing that she have religon/beliefs different from your? I come late to this discussion. Many valuable and insightfull points are in this thread. To go to the original question, yes, I would see an SP regardless of religious beliefs. The man you encountered sounds very unhinged. If he hadn't gone off on the Tarot he would have found something else. Total jerk. Forget him. Posted via Mobile Device Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest High***d****an-Can*** Report post Posted June 30, 2011 This client clearly did not behave like a gentleman, there is no reason to be hurtful when it comes to a difference of opinion. I hope his uninformed and hurtful comments of Wiccan did not cause you any doubt about anything regarding who you are or what you represent. But I do agree with Sara, that SPs are supposed to provide a fantasy for clients. And if it were myself who was Wiccan, then I would probably hide all related materials. If I had a client who hated Ireland, then I wouldn't tell him that I was vacationing there. Would I ever tell them of my Wiccan beliefs and my trip to Ireland? probably - if the moment called for it. Because we are in an a personal industry, a lot of boundaries can and will get blurred. My job as an SP is to provide my clients with a custom-made fantasy, regardless of what I believe in, because it's not about me, it's about him. I am supposed to be whatever he wants me to be - but without compromising my integrity or dignity (ie: if a client requested a vomiting or defecating fantasy, I would definately pass). If I practiced Wiccan and my client requested a catholic school girl fantasy, would I tell him to see another SP? nope, and it shouldn't affect who I am as a person, because it's only a fantasy. I'm not saying to completely abandon who you are; as a matter of fact, maintaining who you are is VERY important for SPs, as we will get hit with challenges once in a while, and we need strength in ourselves to maintain our sanity. BUT! Who you are sometimes doesn't matter when you work... or hobby. The essence of our industry is the connection we provide to our clients. A client may not want to see a Wiccan provider, but would you see a client who trash-talked Wiccan? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icebreaker 3938 Report post Posted June 30, 2011 Malika, I'm sorry you had to deal with such an idiot, you didn't deserve something like that. Some of the threads have mentioned that SP's are providing a fanatasy. I only partially agree with those statements. Fantasy is only one factor a guy will choose a particular SP and that fantasy has to be provided under the concept of "reasonable accommodation". By that I mean the fantasy can never be all encompassing. For example a client may request the lady wear a cute little nurses outfit - it would be unreasonable for the client to expect actual medical equipment and a hospital bed to be provided to complete the fantasy. There has to be a limit of what is expected from the SP under the reasonableness test. The client acted shamefully in this instance and nothing can excuse his behavior. In a society with many varied cultures and faiths one can never go under the assumption that everyone will agree with his morals and beliefs (if that is the case he is lining himself up for a nervous breakdown if this is his reaction in a single instance. That is just my opinion. Posted via Mobile Device 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
