New Canada Post MO policies

[JoyfulC 132299]

Has anyone seen Canada Posts new money order policies? http://www.canadapost.ca/business/offerings/supplementary_services_bus/can/money_orders_faqs-e.asp

 

Apparently they're targetted for money laundering and terrorist financing. I was floored to learn this.

 

Do you think there's enough organized crime money laundering and terrorist financing going on to justify this change? I'm not sure what to think.

 

..c..

[d*mm*y 887]

This money laundering thing against terrorist and criminals si an excuse to try to add more regulations to our lives. Imagine a store that won't take money unless you have ID, that is coming.

[kih 458]

This money laundering thing against terrorist and criminals si an excuse to try to add more regulations to our lives. Imagine a store that won't take money unless you have ID, that is coming.

 

 

 

In many ways electronic transactions is reality. Most major employers insist that ones paycheck is auto deposited into an account and its the only way to get paid.

 

ATM transactions are also on the rise. Many times around Xmas time, sometimes the store clerk will have to input the transactions because of the overload on the ATM system and the initial transaction just times out.

[ulixestrojan 3757]

Joyful,

 

Here is some academic data to support the growth in the underground economy that is estimated as such: In applying this estimation technique to Canada data, my results indicate that, the underground economy in Canada grew steadily relative to measured GDP over the period 1976 to 2001. The value of the broadly defined underground economy grew from about 7.5% of GDP in 1976 to about 15.3% in 2001. In real (1997) dollar terms, it increased from about $38 billion to $159 billion.

 

http://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/4229/

 

Other estimates put it as high as 22%

http://www.jstor.org/pss/135981

 

So - this is a small change but one attempt I suppose.

 

Has anyone seen Canada Posts new money order policies? http://www.canadapost.ca/business/offerings/supplementary_services_bus/can/money_orders_faqs-e.asp

 

Apparently they're targetted for money laundering and terrorist financing. I was floored to learn this.

 

Do you think there's enough organized crime money laundering and terrorist financing going on to justify this change? I'm not sure what to think.

 

..c..

[kih 458]

Joyful,

 

Here is some academic data to support the growth in the underground economy that is estimated as such: In applying this estimation technique to Canada data, my results indicate that, the underground economy in Canada grew steadily relative to measured GDP over the period 1976 to 2001. The value of the broadly defined underground economy grew from about 7.5% of GDP in 1976 to about 15.3% in 2001. In real (1997) dollar terms, it increased from about $38 billion to $159 billion.

 

http://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/4229/

 

Other estimates put it as high as 22%

http://www.jstor.org/pss/135981

 

So - this is a small change but one attempt I suppose.

 

If personal income tax rates weren't so high, I think the underground economy wouldn't be as popular as it is today. General rule of thumb is cash is king! and whats under the table stays under the table.

[d*mm*y 887]

It is really a chicken and egg thing, I pay a lot in taxes trust me you don't need to know the number but it would be a really great salary for most of you. The reason I pay this amount is it costs a certain amount to run our country, every person not paying there fair share of taxes costs me just a little bit more. Not just declared income but things like Indian cigarettes, and this will have a profound effect when people smoking them hit there 50's and 60's and require constant medical attention, who will pay for that? Oh ya guys like me again, they are welcome I hope they enjoy the tax free smokes and tax free life style. I have seen a significant drop in my income taxes, property taxes have inched up but overall I am paying about 10% less in taxes in the last 5 years and if we can figure out ways to get everyone to pay income tax I could maybe save another 10%, so it is very personal to me.

 

Now on the other hand I do hate the fact that it has to be so damb regulated and big brother has to be so intensely involved, I just wish that people would recognize what a great country, health system, road's communication, legal system etc... that we have (it's not perfect but I will take it over any other country out there today) and contribute and please don't take it if you don't need it i.e. social assistance, food bank etc... I think some people just need to be educated as to the process, and others are just dishonest to begin with.

[kih 458]

It is really a chicken and egg thing, I pay a lot in taxes trust me you don't need to know the number but it would be a really great salary for most of you. The reason I pay this amount is it costs a certain amount to run our country, every person not paying there fair share of taxes costs me just a little bit more. Not just declared income but things like Indian cigarettes, and this will have a profound effect when people smoking them hit there 50's and 60's and require constant medical attention, who will pay for that? Oh ya guys like me again, they are welcome I hope they enjoy the tax free smokes and tax free life style. I have seen a significant drop in my income taxes, property taxes have inched up but overall I am paying about 10% less in taxes in the last 5 years and if we can figure out ways to get everyone to pay income tax I could maybe save another 10%, so it is very personal to me.

 

Now on the other hand I do hate the fact that it has to be so damb regulated and big brother has to be so intensely involved, I just wish that people would recognize what a great country, health system, road's communication, legal system etc... that we have (it's not perfect but I will take it over any other country out there today) and contribute and please don't take it if you don't need it i.e. social assistance, food bank etc... I think some people just need to be educated as to the process, and others are just dishonest to begin with.

 

I have to agree to an extent. We do have a wonderful country. I also pay significant income tax from employment and other taxes such real estate holdings. I realize it keeps the country going for infrastructure such as health care, education, roads etc and other programs. I do think I pay my share.

 

I dabble on the side in other ventures that is underground and I know many others that do as well such as home renovators, roofers, tree and stump removers, snow removers, auto repairs you name it.

 

It is triate that the government wastes significant tax dollars generated from income tax and are very seldom accountable to the public. Although good faith intentions of some of these programs, some are just an outright waste.

 

Our legal system is somewhat of a joke. For instance, Perjury often runs rampant in Family Court and for the most part goes unpunished. Many Judges are biased against fathers especially in Ottawa. The system is set up to be adversary and matters often get delayed years rather than early settlement. In the interim, many kids lose an opportunity to have a relationship with one of their parents. Sad but true; many lawyers are getting rich at the expense and destruction of families and their respective break up.

[Akhenaton 221]

You now what the sad part is ? The little guy get's hit with things like this, but no matter what you do, criminals will always find a way. As to electronic transactions, yes everybody and their brother (so to speak) think it's the best thing since sliced bread, well guess what so does big brother... be it stated or not, all fund processed electronically ARE tracked, so of course it's a preferred method. Again, now YOU NEED to have a bank account, but do regulators pause and think of how banks will abuse this new windfall (mandatory accounts=mandatory "fees") ? of course not, it's a discused tax, the banks charge fees, they get taxed on the overall benefits and joyfully pass it down to the low and middle income groups (and no offence dumpy, but for this bit, your are likely upper middle, upper class really has a lot of disposable income), so one way or another, all of these services, enhancement, breakdowns on laundering, etc are just discised taxes. Now, if we cold stop the waste, maybe not all of these methods would be required, and we might actually give more of the little guys a break, but since upper class is in power and making dicisions, I sincerly doubt that will ever happen.

 

Money order changes ? likely a cash grab IMHO, since they don't even return the MO to you once cashed, so one way or another, it's of little value. BTW, if fraude is such a big issue, why are banks now autrhorized to "image" checks and destroy the originals (illiminating finger prints, DNA, reinking traces etc...) ? because they can save money, thus get to keep more of the profit not returned to the GOVT as taxes, again, if you get in trouble, you have even fewer options to prove a check was falsefied... nice eh ?

 

Just my 2 cents,

sorry for the rather glommy content, the weather is depressing me today...

AK

[d*mm*y 887]

You are right AK, it is middle income Canadians that get the brunt of it and as middle class as I think I am you are also right that my income probably disqualifies me from calling myself middle class. And yes I have lots of disposable cash, the ladies can vouch for that. However I also have perspective on what we are paying for and who is getting away with what. As you point out AK the true middle class (John and Jane Doe eeking out a sub six figure income) are the ones paying the price, so why are they not more vocal about the underground economy?

[corona 265]

Dummpy;

 

the middle income Canadian is too complacent and as long as they have their little bit of 'freedom' some food on the table, a roof over the head, they will shut up and take it, unfortunately. We are getting gouged at the pump taxed to the max, and I do not mean via income taxes, but all the other taxes, such as 'user fees', property taxes etc.

I am in the same boat as you, higher income, but have the advantage of having a great accountant (I cannot pay him enough, he saves me money).

Regarding bank fees, we are the only country that puts up with this, and the banks know about it. Where else in the world do you have to pay someone so that they can earn interest by taking your money? Not even Switzerland does it.

My two devaluated pennies worth.

[d*mm*y 887]

It is expensive to be a Canadian, we have a huge country and a relatively small tax base, communications and transport infrastructure are monumental over head, most European countries have a larger population than us and we can fit several of them in a Province like Ontario. We insist on doing everything twice, once in English and once in French. Our boarders need to monitored and patrolled and as if that wasn't enough we want 200Km off shore too! We want to have a strong social policy so no one goes hungry in the streets, we want to have paid medical coverage, I can go on and on, but these are the things that make us who we are. Ever been deep in the woods were only of handful of people have ever been? Ever skied down a mountain on fresh powder dropped off by a helicopter? It's worth it but it's expensive, it's not fair to compare our governments budget to Switzerland or Luxembourg! Look at the VAT in the UK it's at 20%, and they have 50 million people in a place that's the size of Nova Scotia! Give me a break, the brits are still utilizing some infrastructure that they inherited from the Romans!! I digress, it's one of those things that is so complicated we just sit back and criticize without understand 1% of the factors involved. it's a life long study and even the economists screw it up remember Reganomics, Stagflation etc...

[JoyfulC 132299]

I guess the thing that annoys me about it is the way they labelled it. We hear so much about terrorism these days -- the only thing that seems to be missing from the scenario are the actual terrorists. I truly feel the whole thing is blown way out of proportion. Sure, every culture has some terrorist element and acts of terrorism will always occur, and it's true that any terrorists (of any stripe) would have access to better technology these days. But so does everybody else.

 

If anything, I think we're as vulnerable or perhaps even more so than we were on 911. Look at a countries that have serious problems with terrorism -- like Israel, for example. The terrorists there don't worry about smuggling explosives onto airplanes. They blow up buses and pizza parlours. In Iraq, they go to security check points, police recruitment centers and local markets. It would be insane to think that we're not just as vulnerable if not more vulnerable here -- and the secret isn't in cutting off financing or detaining people's laptops.

 

You know something weird? I wonder if the police and the authorities don't suffer from a bit of the same complex some call girls do. When I was very young, before I started this, I imagined that being a call girl would be amazingly glamorous and that all my clients would be ultra-sophisticated high-powered types. But it turns out that most of my clients are just ordinary guys -- like the guy next door. And even with those who are perhaps a little extraordinary, they still come with the same needs and desires -- and when they leave, they still put their pants on one leg at a time.

 

I often wonder if some of our law enforcement and counter terrorist experts aren't all caught up in the romance of spy thrillers. They're super focused on ferreting out ultra well financed, well trained professionals and ultra complex strategists -- when it's probably true that most terrorism is carried out by people who actually aren't all that well financed or trained, and the plots are fairly simple. It's not as romantic, to be sure -- but I think that's probably closer to the truth. People with lots of money and sophistication will have little use for terrorism -- if they use it at all, it will be from behind the scenes and purely as a distraction or to pit players off one another. (How do you think we ended up in Afghanistan and Iraq, wasting treasure and young lives for the corporate oil wars?)

 

To me, it makes more sense that MOs simply needed upgrading to bring them inline with other financial technologies. If anything, it will probably go further to thwart fraud -- which unlike terrorism, IS a concern for me. So why not just tell us this? Why do they have to treat us like halfwits and slap the "terrorism" label on everything they do?

 

..c..

[Guest f***2f***]

This money laundering thing against terrorist and criminals si an excuse to try to add more regulations to our lives. Imagine a store that won't take money unless you have ID, that is coming.

 

Yes, I am in the process of buying and selling houses and both buying and selling agents had to ask me for ID due to this new law and get me to sign a waiver....even though they have known me for years...geez!:(

[kih 458]

Yes, I am in the process of buying and selling houses and both buying and selling agents had to ask me for ID due to this new law and get me to sign a waiver....even though they have known me for years...geez!:(

 

The good old fashioned handshake of yesteryear was gold and has since evolved to a signature and recently signature and identification. I presume the latter is because of so much identity theft going on.

[JoyfulC 132299]

It seems to me there were a couple cases in recent years of homes being sold right out from under people through identity theft, so maybe it's a good idea. In at least one case I followed, the courts basically told the bank that it had failed to do due diligence and so they'd have to eat the loss.

 

(You know, Dummpy, one thing you've got to say for the "underground economy" is it seems to be doing a lot better than the above ground economy. Maybe instead of sending cops and revenuers after them, we should send them a few Greenspans and Bernankes to advise them, eh? ;) )

 

..c..

[amadeus65 113]

Dummpy;

 

the middle income Canadian is too complacent and as long as they have their little bit of 'freedom' some food on the table, a roof over the head, they will shut up and take it, unfortunately. We are getting gouged at the pump taxed to the max, and I do not mean via income taxes, but all the other taxes, such as 'user fees', property taxes etc.

I am in the same boat as you, higher income, but have the advantage of having a great accountant (I cannot pay him enough, he saves me money).

Regarding bank fees, we are the only country that puts up with this, and the banks know about it. Where else in the world do you have to pay someone so that they can earn interest by taking your money? Not even Switzerland does it.

My two devaluated pennies worth.

 

Having travelled over 3/4 of the world and speaking with many people one thing I have learned. We never had a revolution in this country, outside of the drunken ones in 1837, which didn't amount to much. When I lived in England people told me the government is very careful what they do, or there are major riots, look what happened when thatcher put in the poll tax in England, major riots. Same in most other democracies. Here though we take it, the only people in the country that honestly have the guts to stand up to the government are the first nations people, and just for that I respect them. If the rest of us followed their example perhaps we could keep our jobs in Canada instead of China and make our country great as it once was before liberalism, destroyed it. Just my redneck northern ontario rant:p

[JoyfulC 132299]

Frankly, I suspect a lot of this "anti-terrorism" security stuff is actually designed to deal with serious revolutions and civil unrest in Canada and the US.

 

And I think it's coming. I think (sure hope I'm wrong!) that we're going to get kicked in the economy harder than we have any time since the Great Depression. And when that happens, Americans and Canadians may not be so complacent. It's probably quite wise of the government to do all it can to get a handle on matters before it gets to that point -- although, ultimately, I don't think there's much they'll be able to do about it.

 

Who knows! Maybe we're overdue for a good ol' fashioned revolution! ;)

 

..c..