When Commenting On Sensitive/Personal Topics

[Alexandra-Sky 12606]

This thread is sort of in response to some of the reactions on the Amy Winehouse thread and is also inspired by recent conversations I have been having with my wonderful friends in my personal life.

 

 

I would like to bring to everyone's attention that when issues such drug-addiction/sex working/ racism etc. etc. are brought up, these things are a matter of life and death for some people. Thus, it's really important to not only be gentle with our words, but also with our thoughts when commenting on them.

 

I personally believe that most people are not maliciously trying to stir up shit when they say things like "she was JUST a junkie", but rather this kind of thinking can be coming from several places: ignorance, a societally perpetuated idea, or past experiences where loved ones who've gone through things like drug-addiction have ended up hurting those they love in the long-run.

 

Nevertheless, it is still important to always assume that people in your audience are going to be deeply affected by these things (either through their own experiences with them or through experiences of loved ones) and thus saying things that demonstrate your anti-drug user/anti-mental health mentality (or whatever the issue may be) will end up deeply wounding many of the people who come across it.

 

I am not of the belief that everyone should be absolutely free to express all opinions (but we'll save that for a later conversation), but if you choose to do so, be mindful of the fact that some people's hearts are at stake.

 

A good example for me is when I hear about a woman who's credibility is challenged for sex working in court cases where she is accusing her husband of abuse. In my eyes, this could very well be me. And so news like this can be quite hard to handle because of the immense injustice I perceive to be happening. Additionally, when people are backing up what is going on, its even more painful to have to defend something you perceive (and feel in your heart and gut) is so blatantly wrong.

 

 

Maybe I'm just having an emotional night but I thought I'd share anyway.

 

 

With love and in struggle,

 

Sky

[emb3750 9398]

We may think we are informed, but we are not. Only those closest to the situation, are closest to the truth, the rest of us just speculate with the help of the media.

 

Clearly, we need to take a deep breath, step back, and truly appreciate every soul and the value they bring to each of us. Sometimes, they have already learned the lessons we have not yet been taught.

 

E.

[Guest E*******h S******s]

Excellent thread Sky. I couldn't agree with you more. It saddened me greatly to see people give one last boot to the ribs of a dead woman. I think the issue is that people have a problem walking in other person's shoes. We all have demons that bite us in the butt in the wee small hours of the morning. We all deal with those demons differently. It's very easy to be judgmental of another person's choices. But here's the thing: It is just as easy to practice a little bit of kindness and keep your judgements to yourself.

[Alexandra-Sky 12606]

But here's the thing: It is just as easy to practice a little bit of kindness and keep your judgements to yourself.

 

 

I very much agree with you, but I would add that sometimes the right thing to do isn't always the easiest. I would go even further than keeping my judgements to myself and ask myself "where did i learn this thinking from? do i have any basis to believe that what i think is true or just?" and from there begin a journey of learning.

 

A good example of this is my mother. She is CONVINCED that all sex workers are victims, are drug-users and are being trafficked or pimped out and that none of us choose our work. Yet, it's interesting because she has never knowingly met a sex worker before and so this knowledge can't possibly come from past experience. In fact, it comes from lots of different sources, one of them being the mainstream media, that insist that all of these things are true. My mom has yet to ask herself the questions of "where did i learn this from? are there any factual basis to these claims? is my opinion of this harmful to these women? And so her untrue and harmful thinking remains unchallenged.

 

Sky

[Guest E*******h S******s]

I very much agree with you, but I would add that sometimes the right thing to do isn't always the easiest. I would go even further than keeping my judgements to myself and ask myself "where did i learn this thinking from? do i have any basis to believe that what i think is true or just?" and from there begin a journey of learning.

 

A good example of this is my mother. She is CONVINCED that all sex workers are victims, are drug-users and are being trafficked or pimped out and that none of us choose our work. Yet, it's interesting because she has never knowingly met a sex worker before and so this knowledge can't possibly come from past experience. In fact, it comes from lots of different sources, one of them being the mainstream media, that insist that all of these things are true. My mom has yet to ask herself the questions of "where did i learn this from? are there any factual basis to these claims? is my opinion of this harmful to these women? And so her untrue and harmful thinking remains unchallenged.

 

Sky

 

Well, I believe that everybody has a right to their own opinions. We are all on this journey and are all taking individual paths. The things we experience as individuals are what forms our values, beliefs and opinions. That being said, if you do feel your voice should be heard, keep kindness in the forefront. You can say what you need to say without being rude, disrespectful or just plain mean.

[Andee 220524]

My mom has yet to ask herself the questions of "where did i learn this from? are there any factual basis to these claims? is my opinion of this harmful to these women? And so her untrue and harmful thinking remains unchallenged.

 

Sky

 

Problem is, Sky, your mom like most people, don't think there is anything wrong with their thinking or belief system, so it never occurs to them to question it.

 

Thanks for starting this thread. It was so timely.

[Alexandra-Sky 12606]

Problem is, Sky, your mom like most people, don't think there is anything wrong with their thinking or belief system, so it never occurs to them to question it.

 

Thanks for starting this thread. It was so timely.

 

 

I agree. But I imagine the perfect world one in which we are taught to look deeper into why we think the things we do and whether or not those thoughts are truly just and loving. We're not really taught to question mainstream view points in this society. And unfortunately, most of the time, mainstream beliefs can be quite harmful such as the one I mentioned in my original post about sex workers losing credibility because of their work.

[Lowdark 5613]

Very well said Alexandra.

[Andee 220524]

You're absolutely right, Sky. Just because a million people agree with the same idea, doesn't make it a good thing.

 

As we know...

Many wars have started and fought because of such things.

Famine in places like the horn of Africa which are totally unnecessary....

 

I could go on indefinitely...

[Old Dog 179138]

 

A good example of this is my mother. She is CONVINCED that all sex workers are victims, are drug-users and are being trafficked or pimped out and that none of us choose our work. Yet, it's interesting because she has never knowingly met a sex worker before and so this knowledge can't possibly come from past experience. In fact, it comes from lots of different sources, one of them being the mainstream media, that insist that all of these things are true. My mom has yet to ask herself the questions of "where did i learn this from? are there any factual basis to these claims? is my opinion of this harmful to these women? And so her untrue and harmful thinking remains unchallenged.

 

Sky

 

One of the best things that ever happened to me was CERB. Since joining I can honestly say that my circle of friends has expanded exponentially... and the majority of these friends are either sex workers, hobbyists or their extended trusted confidants. I have grown to love these friends... and you know who you are... they have opened my eyes. My attitude has certainly changed and in turn, I have had countless frank conversations with friends and family.

 

My mom is 80. The last time I was down visiting, we had a great conversation... one that included her saying that she doesn't understand all the "fuss." Her words? "Why does everyone try to hide the fact that people do it. It should be legal and safe." Now this is a woman that saw this:

 

 

- when she was a teenager. If a small town girl who went to a bible thumpin' Presbyterian church most of her life can see the light, then there is hope. She does have a rebel streak in her....

[bcguy42 38594]

That being said, if you do feel your voice should be heard, keep kindness in the forefront. You can say what you need to say without being rude, disrespectful or just plain mean.

 

As I've watched a couple of threads my eyes have been drawn to the statement at the top of every page "... if you do not have anything nice to say ... Please don't say anything at all." I don't understand why one thread was even started and the sudden turn regarding the passing of Ms. Winehouse was totally bewildering to me. So the nice thing I have to say is that it would be nice if folks remembered where they were and, as was pointed out at the beginning of this thread, remembered that there is a large audience here with different sensitivities.

[Guest W***ledi*Time]

Cerb's a discussion board - and inevitably some folks will have opinions that vary from those of others. Sometimes these outlying opinions can be ill-informed and a bit abrasive, and that's unfortunate. Ideally, those of us who disagree with such opinions can discipline ourselves to "count to ten", and, while doing so, try to hold ourselves to the same standards of respect that we demand and expect of others - even if, on occasion, others have disappointed us to a distressing degree.

 

Ideally, such unfortunate posting-incidents can be viewed by the respondents as a teaching opportunity. A calm but firm counterpoint presented, that centers respectfully on the issue being discussed, is always useful and appropriate.

 

The gut-reaction response of calling the offending poster rude names, and ascribing additional, but false, reductio-ad-absurdum opinions to them, often both squanders the teaching opportunity by getting the offender's back up, and creates more ill feelings. Not to mention lowering the tone of civilized discussion on Cerb as much or more than did the originally perceived transgression.

 

In short, we should all preach respect - and we should all do our best to practice what we preach. Especially at the moment when we are most tempted to lash out in annoyance. Not so easy to do (as I know full well - I have committed many such transgressions), but it's an ideal well worth striving towards - on Cerb and elsewhere.

[VedaSloan 119179]

Asking yourself why you think one way or another is also good not just to help you recognize harmful thinking, but also helps you understand yourself better.

 

I took some anger management stuff a few years back (I have a temper, yo) and learning to question exactly why I was angry really helped me to understand where the anger came from and what I could do to change it. A major realization for me was learning that anger is just the outside layer of an onion and when you peel away the layers you realize that the anger stems from fear. So ask yourself why you're angry and then ask yourself why that's a big deal and you'll usually find some kind of underlying fear. Plus, it works for understanding other people's anger too.

 

love and solidarity to you Sky!

xo

[PRECIOUSBABExo 316]

I would like to bring to everyone's attention that when issues such drug-addiction/sex working/ racism etc. etc. are brought up, these things are a matter of life and death for some people. Thus, it's really important to not only be gentle with our words, but also with our thoughts when commenting on them.

 

Be mindful of the fact that some people's hearts are at stake.

 

With love and in struggle,

 

Sky

 

Hello, what an excellent Post, I read and understood all of what you were pointing out Alexandra... But I felt this to be the most important Part to me. Many people have been ridiculed and unjustly convicted without anyone really knowing the whole story First?

[roamingguy 300292]

I don't know why some people like to make judgements on others. Why some people show less sensitivity to the plight and suffering of others I don't know.

Maybe they've been blessed with a life that hasn't thrown them curves, and can't empathize with someone that has been thrown curves

Maybe they have been thrown curves, but had a support system of family and friends to help deal with the curves, so they figure, I dealt with my problems, anyone should be able to. Personally, I was very fortunate to have family and friends for support and wonder how life would have been without the support. But I don't assume that everyone in the same boat has the same support.

Maybe the person made a mistake (we are human after all), and that mistake took control of his or her life (ie like trying drugs or alcohol)

Maybe, and unfortunately the media in part plays into this, there is the marginalizing and dehumanizing of certain groups of people. People get labelled with terms that allow mainstream (I hate the term considering the topic) society to not be as sympathetic to their plight. If the headlines read Pickton killed woman, instead of Pickton killed prostitutes, well the label prostitute allows for dehumanizing. Likewise, focusing on Amy Winehouse not as a young talented singer, but as a troubled drug addict, makes the loss for some, less of a loss. Or hypothetical, if media reported about a homeless man killed, might make the back page, if it was reported a man killed (forget adjectives) might make page one or two On a note some gentlemen here could relate to, what if someone got killed after seeing an escort. It would likely be considered a "john" getting what he deserved, not a case of a man getting killed. So if reading about a labelled person, a label that dehumanizes them somewhat, forget the label, the adjective, focus on the most important label, which is person, woman, man, because that is who you are talking about.

So when people make comments about other people, whether drug addicts, alcoholics, SP's, clients etc, remember, you haven't walked in their shoes, you don't know their story.

And it could be but for the grace of god go you or I

No matter who you are commenting about, you are talking about a human being, a person, and he or she deserves all the respect that comes from being human being

Hope that long winded rambling makes sense

RG

[Alexandra-Sky 12606]

Thanks everyone for their words of support and heart-felt responses.

 

xoxo

 

Sky

[Jazzitup 5652]

One measure of a person is the amount of compassion we have for each other.

 

Can we ever have too much of it? I don't think so.

[SamanthaEvans 166767]

One of my favourite quotations is, "Be compassionate. Everyone you meet is fighting a great battle." I don't know who was the original author; it's been attributed to many people. What matters to me is that it's true. We all have struggles, joys, pain and sorrow, celebrations, things we're proud of and things we're deeply ashamed of. Human beings are complex. Reducing any person to just one or two things is always a huge distortion of who they really are.

 

Those who begin with compassion and genuinely seek to understand have richer lives than those who consign others to neat, single-issue boxes or files. Compassion teaches about others and about ourselves, too.

 

I'm heartened by the general response I've seen on the boards recently. Most people try to take time to pause, to reflect and then to speak.

 

But.... it seems to me that we could all use a bit of a refresher course in dealing with trolls. In general, the most insensitive and accusative statements are made by people who are or appear to be relative newcomers to CERB. They say enough to get their post count up a bit, but when the time seems right for them, they launch a strong counter-opinion in the least respectful, most condescending or challenging ways possible. They are not here to engage in reflective, constructive conversation that respects the views and rights of others. Instead, they like to see what they can get started by taking a strong, emotional and powerful position that usually disagrees with most of the participants in the group. Throughout, instead of taking part in honest discussion, they state put-downs and make personal attacks on other parties, distort what they or others have said and generally try to keep themselves as the centre of attention. Eventually, they pretend to log out but return under another name on another computer, or they say that they're going to be unavailable for days or weeks to come, or they continue baiting and stirring the pot until they're ready to deliver their final denunciations directed at specific people or the whole group.

 

Trolls divert discussions, hijack thread, sow seeds of suspicion and discord, try to create factions and frequently aim to destroy groups by undermining members' trust in each other.

 

Never feed trolls! It just encourages them. If you find that you've inadvertently been reeled into their tricks, back out. Stop posting. The best way to get a troll to give up is to ignore what they say and do.

[etasman2000 15994]

Never feed trolls! It just encourages them. If you find that you've inadvertently been reeled into their tricks, back out. Stop posting. The best way to get a troll to give up is to ignore what they say and do.

 

We need a Do Not Feed Smiley

 

[Phaedrus 209521]

But.... it seems to me that we could all use a bit of a refresher course in dealing with trolls. In general, the most insensitive and accusative statements are made by people who are or appear to be relative newcomers to CERB.

 

Well... when I see this happen, I tend to think...

 

 

Seriously, it's often very hard to tell whether someone's just genuinely not getting it, or whether they're trolling. Either way, I'm with you on DNFTT as a general principle for maintaining your online sanity.

 

And as always, the lolcats got there first :)