SP requests for client photo as a precursor to appointment?

[Capital Hunter 18263]

So some two hundred thousand or so government employees who need clearance on regular basis, they all have web presence!!!!!!. And yes they are no VIP (you don't have to be a VIP to need clearance or having to pass moral judgements by family, friends and colleagues).

 

And if your picture is attached to your email to SP's email address then it could NOT have been pulled from your face book or yourspace account!!. It is attached to the email sent by you to the SP (not to mention that the email with picture can be a follow-up to possibly previous emails asking possibly for description of services or an appointment).

[bangminton 145]

It is what it is, we all have our physical preferences and limits, I have some personal biased against certain types (not a racial thing however a size thing and or physical attributes) if the lady is not going to be able to fake a good experience she is probably better off just not taking the appointment. When a client shows up if the lady knows it's not going to work either make it right i.e. "Buddy you need to grab the mouth was in the bathroom and gargle for half an hour", or "there is the shower please use it" etc... or simply tell them, "sorry this is not going to work keep your money". However if they can pre-screen with issues they know they have than even better! less time waisted for everyone.

 

Points well taken dummpy but isn't this a classic case of stereotyping and generalizing ? For example, when you see a picture of an East Indian male, you immediately think of curry and screen him out ? I don't want to get into a long-winded argument and don't want to side-track this topic but this is 2008 and I thought we are all better than that.

 

But you are right, SPs have personal preferences (we all do as you alluded to in your post) and respect goes both ways.

 

Cheers!

[d*mm*y 887]

I am try to say that if these are concerns there are discreet ways of sending this stuff, the trail you mention without your picture is enough to incriminate you. Some one who is interested in blackmailing you will need to be highly motivated to so with motive, if you are simply trying for a security clearance I don't think that will motivate them. There is a risk in everything we do, part of the risk assessment has to involve the likely hood that someone will be motivated to do this thing. I think that there are many many ways that an SP can get at a client in trouble without needing them to send a picture. I think this is one of the more obscure approaches to taking someone down? If I were an SP and in the business of black mailing I would start with one of those teddy bear nanny cams in the corner of my room! Now that would be a fun follow up email to a session!! next time you are in an SP's hotel suite take an inventory of all the stuff in the room decide for yourself how many items could store a wireless cameras, now why does it not happen? Because that kind of organization and for thought requires serious targets and serious planning, they are not just interested in ruining your security clearance and marriages, whats in it for them? This kind of urban myth spreads right through to waking up in a tub of ice with a note taped to your chest that says get to a hospital one of your kidneys has been removed. At least that myth has a payoff for the culprit!

 

Now I recently met a lady who leaves her laptop open on the desk in the hotel room, who's to say that the built in cam is not hooked up to her pimp to view and record? Why he could even have a key and when the time is right jump in the room and roll you for your wallet!

[mod 135640]

Correct me if I am wrong as I am not a lawyer, but I think that, it is solicitation (the picture on her PC) rather than the act of prostitution (being caught in the act) which is illegal in Canada.

 

Actually solicitation is only illegal when done in public. This law is intended to fight against street level prostitution.

[Dreamgirl 246]

i think the picture is a good idea, I am not an sp but if I would be one, I would ask for one for sure ( i wouldnt make any money i guess) for safety and like paige said, its more discreet when you know who you re looking for

 

what s the point of blackmailing, both are adults... conscient of what they do, the client see pictures of the ladies too...

 

i guess i could never be an sp because I would ask pictures and wouldnt make any money loll

[capitalman 3861]

Dreamgirl, I think you'd make lots of money. There's no shortage of men ready to send a photo. Those who care not to aren't going to put the SPs out of business, that's for sure.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

Please do not think that way Dreamgirl. Based on what I have read so far the board is divided in half between those who are willing to provide photos and those who aren't. That is why I commented earlier that I don't remember seeing a thread so divisive. I think that you will be making lots of money (my guess is also based on your picture), but may be not as much as those who wouldn't ask for pictures.

 

It also depends if the SP is well reviewed and well known (in which case most wouldn't mind to provide pictures) which is applicable to you (you are not SP but I think you are well known to members here) or a new girl on the scene on CL (in which case my guess is most wouldn't provide photos).

 

BTW blackmail has really nothing to do with being adult or child. It is just business when it happens (i.e. for extorsion purposes). But I do acknowledge it will be rare. My point is, why take chances, needlesly.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

Actually solicitation is only illegal when done in public. This law is intended to fight against street level prostitution.

 

Thanks for clarification mod. Knowing this will help me to be more open in my questions related to services when contacting an SP or when calling an agency which so far has been almost all cases (I have been reluctant to contact independents or SPs on CL so far as I have to email and I was under impression that it is illegal to ask questions related to services in an email). Now I see also why most agencies (Discreet Valley excluded) are not afraid of answering service related questions on the phone.

[cat 262460]

To be honest I don't remember seeing a thread so divisive. Some are commenting strongly against sending a picture to an SP and some strongly for. But there is no reason to be fuming over this issue. The buttom line is that it is a personal choice and an opinion. Everybody is entitled to her or his opinion. It is as simple as this. If you like to provide your picture to an SP (that most likely you know nothing about her or the person who is managing her business, especially those on CL) this is your personal choice. By all means go ahead and do it. And If I choose not to, then that is my personal choice.

 

Remember that we are commenting generally about providing our pictures to SPs (or whoever is behind the scene. That is the person or persons who answer the phone, respond to emails, may be drive her over or simply manages her business). That is every SP who may ask for it. And not about any particular well known or well reviewed SP on cerb.

 

As someone commented that it is hypocrisy on our part (as we are asking for SP's picture and not willing to provide one in return). I would comment that this is different because we are the ones who are paying for the service and normally the one who pays is asking for information not the other way round. Again what is important is that it is simply a matter of personal choice and everyone is entitled to her or his opinion and this is my opinion.

 

 

Retraction:

******************************************************************************

Soon after I posted this article I received a PM from a well established senior member that the word hypocrisy used in his article was NOT referring to the following situation:

"since we are asking for SP's picture and not willing to provide one in return"

I am therefore posting this retraction with regard to my earlier comment in this regard.

******************************************************************************

 

I do maintain my view however, that since we are paying for the service, we can ask for information (picture, services, descriptions, etc.) and not the other way round.

Just because you are paying for a visit doesn't mean we don't have the right to decide before hand who we want to see. If this lady has decided she only wants to share her body with those she finds personally attractive then that is her choice!

 

SP's are unlike any other service providers. Put yourself in her position, what if you were standing on the other side of the door and opened it to a woman who had no teeth, greasy hair, reeking of body odor and she outweighed you by 150lbs. Would you feel comfortable telling her she repulsed you and to please leave? I think you would go thru the same thought process we do...

 

1. Can I do this?

2. If she wants to kiss me, can I do it and not gag?

3. When she wants me to eat her, can I do it without losing my lunch?

4. If I tell her to leave, will she go peacefully or cause a scene?

5. Am I in danger?

6. Can I get it a hard on with this person?

7. How desperately do I need the money?

(not necessarily in the order in which they flow thru the grey matter!)

 

 

Think about it. Just because you are the one initiating the contact and wanting to have the opportunity to spend time with an SP doesn't mean you dictate anything and that she doesn't have the right to ask for whatever she deems necessary to ensure her peace of mind. It is not for you to ask why she does it, just to decide if you want to participate on her terms.

 

Catherine

[Capital Hunter 18263]

As I have said a few times before, the issue is a personal choice and an opinion and you are entitled to your opinion and so am I to mine.

 

BTW where did I say that SPs don't have the right to choose or ask questions:confused:. I thought I was clear that the SP has the right to ask for photos (which meant she has the right to choose to be with only those with whom she is physically attracted as you pointed out) and the hobbyiest has the right to refuse too. And BTW I don't think faults like no teeth (unless smiling but easy to hide) or greasy hair or body odor will show up in the pictures .

 

 

I maintain the view best described by Kubrickfan and ekimout and that is, it is a personal choice for both the SP and hobbyiest. The SP has the right to ask for info (pictures, personal info, etc.) and the hobbyiest has the right to refuse and move on to the next SP.

 

BTW, this new criterion (physical attraction) will disqualify many hobbyiest who are in the hobby for their physical reasons (age, physical look or shape, may be race) and gives new concepts to escort services (it is more like dating services now!!!) and again this is my opinion.

[MissAva 376]

I think what is somewhat disturbing is the blackmailing topic. I understand that the gentlemen want to remain discret, however the SP's have something to lose as well. Why couldn't an over obsessed client blackmail an SP?? We put our lives on the line to do something we enjoy. A lot of SP's have children, some have husbands and jobs that require clearance as well. I feel the comment was very low and almost put SP's in a light where we are beneath the clients. (beacuse they donate to spend time with us) Like Paige mentioned her job is with the public. We tend to show our pictures without even knowing who you are (unless you are a well known hobbiest) and there have been SP's who then get an email letting them know that someone in their personal lives found out. I think this view has gotten lost in the selfishness of some of these views.

 

I think the thread is now focusing too much on the attractiveness of the gentlemen. Now the lady or ladies who request a picture might lose buisness now, because maybe the men who aren't a model don't feel comfortable now and don't want to face possible rejection.

 

Some SP's ask to not see smokers, thats a personal choice. I myself am allergic to cigarettes, however I have never asked a client before hand. However it makes it hard when someone does show up smelling like one. Hence why there have been preivious threads about hygiene.

 

I think its great this topic was started, I think in some aspects people certainly got carried away. I personally think the picture provides an early start to trust. I trust you all with mine, and I like to remain discret myself, hence why I don't have a website or an album.

 

I just want to also mention, that not all SP's can go into the SP's "zone", I myself can't. I don't have an SP's title because I don't have a website or album. So to be contacting another SP everytime I get an email would be ridiculous. So I am in agreeance with the picture request, and I am sure like capitalman said, there is no short supply of men who will send a picture.

[Incognito 331]

I also receive many photo's from clients, it makes outcalls far less stressful. If your walking into a hotel lobby and you already know who your looking for, I find that alot more discreet.

As for this black mail business, I think thats just far fetched...

Most SP's if not all SP's have professional career's outside of being and SP. I myself am in a very public career, so I am always taking a huge risk to send out photo's.

I see know harm in asking for photo's from a client, if it makes an SP more comfortable, then why not.

Gentlemen we invite you into our homes, and put our very lives in your hands. You are after all a stranger, and have a huge advange in doing us harm...

Your male, so naturally larger and stonger...

I think an SP & client relationship is a very delicate bond, that needs two way respect and discreetness....

 

Just a Thought...

Your Paige...

 

Not to make light of a serious topic...

 

But I've seen Paige's body... I think she could open a large can of "whoop-ass" on most guys I know should it ever come to that!!!

 

Now returning to the thread... I've been asked for and have provided pics. No sweat to me. But as so many already said, do what's comfortable for you. There are many providers.

[muff rancher 122]

What's been made clear in this thought provoking thread is that an SP can have many good reasons--and all valid--for requesting a photo. My sense is that those who are independents have to take charge of a lot more in terms of maintaining their safety and their *sense* of safety. Equally true, many men who see SPs and MPAs do so knowing that each time there is a risk of being found out. That's a worry for some, while for others it's just accepted as part of the experience.

 

Personally, there are times when I have been asked to provide a photo and it has given me pause, if only because I don't know the person at the other end of the correspondence. But I can also say that if any of the women in this thread were to ask me for a photo first (hi Paige, Ava, Cat etc!), I would not hesitate because they are known here on cerb as great people who care not only about being good at what they do, but about taking care of themselves as well.

 

So for me, when faced with the request, I either comply trusting fully both the woman's discretion and the reasons behind her request, or I move on with no hard feelings. Chacun son go?t.

 

Threads like this one are great for getting a better idea of another's perspective. My hat's off to everyone.

[d*mm*y 887]

Points well taken dummpy but isn't this a classic case of stereotyping and generalizing ? For example, when you see a picture of an East Indian male, you immediately think of curry and screen him out ? I don't want to get into a long-winded argument and don't want to side-track this topic but this is 2008 and I thought we are all better than that.

 

But you are right, SPs have personal preferences (we all do as you alluded to in your post) and respect goes both ways.

 

Cheers!

 

It's not a question of better than that, and certainly if I owned a hotel or were hiring for a job posting this kind of discrimination would be outrageous and highly frowned upon. However we asking an SP to do very intimate and private acts with us, imagine if you found out that one of your co-workers got to sleep with the cute girl in the office. Would you march over to her and demand an equal opportunity? This is an extreme example but we are intertwining our moral compass on this one.

 

At the end of the day it will boil down to supply and demand the ladies will set there bar at what is comfortable with them and we will hunt for the right ones for us. If we piss them off they will leave the business. Treat them with love and respect not as future blackmailers!! I am not a handsome or sexy guy in a picture and I always send one and I have never been refused an appointment, so if you look middle aged and a little regular don't worry about it, every other hobbiest that I have met looks better than I do thats for sure!! The ladies do like me very much because I have a complete unconditional love for them, and this some of you need to learn.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

We are all adults and debating a very interesting issue which means we put forwards our views and learn from each other and may be convince each other. Debating requires that we put forward all pros and cons and possible scenarios (even unlikely scenarios). Expressing those pros and cons is a requirement for a healthy debate and should not be offensive to anyone or considered as very low as a result of misunderstanding or wrong conclusions (or taking the words out of context).

 

I certainly have learned many concerns that exist on the SPs' side as a result of this thread and sincerely grateful to those who put forward their views. As a result of this debate I am leaning to accept fully the safety concerns on the part of SPs who are asking for photos, but still not convinced as a valid reason for those asking for photos in order to find out about physical attraction, age or racial background and I don't think I ever be, as I consider escort services different with dating services in this regard.

 

Both Hobbyiests and SPs are divided on the issue. But overwheming majority agree that it is a personal choice and people (both SPs and hobbyiests) are entitled to their choice.

[bangminton 145]

Fully agree this is a personal choice and we can always move on to the next one as there are plenty of fishes in the sea. I guess we can't really complain if some Asian SPs prefer to see Asian clientele in that regards.

 

And to clarify one of dummpy's point: Racial discrimination in the workplace is not only frowned upon, it is also illegal as per our Federal Laws. Now, I know this doesn't apply to this particular kind of service so it's fair game for both sides.

[cat 262460]

This has been such an interesting thread for so many reasons. As for the "race-age-ethnic" bias, I found that very entertaining. I am sorry to say, but just as men have likes and dislikes when it comes to women, we have the same kinds of inclinations. If I have two clients requesting the same time slot, who do I give it to? The one I know I will have fun with. If they are both new guests, then I go on instinct.

 

I for one, chose which clients I see based on prior encounters. If I didn't have fun, then you don't come back. I know many women who are only attracted to a certain race, or a certain look. If this is a side business then they can pick and chose because they have different motivations.

 

I have clients of all shapes, sizes and colors. But, only those who have shown respect have earned the right to come back and play regardless of skin color. SP's don't have time to racially profile, but we work off of past experience and gut intuition. Newbies don't have past experience, so they have to go by their gut. We all learn as we go and if someone thinks photos will help so be it.

 

It's important to remember humans are a funny lot, one mans tickle is anothers torture.

 

Catherine

[capitalman 3861]

Discrimination? Racial bias? I have friends of all colours and religions, but don't be fooled into thinking the world does not judge you based on what you look like! It does! Don't you decide which SP to see based on their looks and colour?

 

I don't have to think about sending a photo, but I sure have a hard time picking one! Should I be sending a naked photo? A bust shot? Smiling? Laughing? It's such a hard call!

[loneskater 25635]

What a debate. I wonder if Kubricfan expected that many responses when he started the thread.

 

I remember the days wher I did not have a computer and was in another part of the country where looking for SPs online was not the thing. Paper, certainly no pics of SPs there. Asking for one also wasn't being done. You called, asked for a description, built a picture in your mind and then got to see if that pic was right when you got there. Some times, it was close other times the SP was not what I had imagined. That made me feel somewhat unconfortable as it kind of broke the magic. To me, anything I can do to make an SP feel more confortable with me, I will, even if that means sending her a pic ,as long as she is also willing to send me one. I have sent pics to SPs/MPs beforer even without being asked for. Mind you these were well recommended CERB members. The way I look at this, has nothing to do with money and me paying for her services. Actually to me I would say it is a little selfish in that I believe if I make the SP feel more confortable ahead of the appointment, I will get a top notch service. If both of us are confortable from the start we can probably build some chemistry and both have a good time.

 

As for the fact that we are paying for services again opinion differs. For me, I pay the goverment big money every year to pay for services. And many departments, where I show up to get the services I paid for, keep asking for pics. Some times I even have to pay, as they are picky about sizes, and send them through the mail. I never had an SP being that picky about what size picture she wants. So if she ask me for one, I will galdly send it and may even throw a second one as a bonus.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

I believe that the initial wide gap between supporters and opponents of providing photos is gradually closing (may be not completely closed). I for one, have become fully aware of the concerns expressed by some SPs with regard to dangers they may be facing every day in their jobs. I can now understand as why certain SPs may be asking for photos for safety reasons.

 

Views were also put forward in regard to looks, physics, race and age and I still would strongly debate against that. A large number of hobbyist are in the hobby because of those factors (remember we are commenting on all not specific hobbyists) and they are using the Escort services (rather than much less expensive Dating services) for those reasons. Most (but not all) SPs are there to provide us with a GF experience as most of us used to have in real, a decade or two ago and may not be able to have that anymore. Some acting so well (although some may be real) that they make us feel loved and we miss them so much soon after they leave and would like to call them back soon!!. Views were put forward in regard to the fact that we (the hobbyists) always select based on physical attraction and so should SPs. True, but “in my view” we are not service providers. People who go to theatres to watch movies don’t have to be as good actors or actresses (or as good looking) as the stars playing in that movie!!. I do fully respect SP's choice if she chooses to select clients based on looks though. It is her personal choice and she is fully entitled to it.

 

As a specific example, I am approaching 40 myself, and had no problem to meet and date girls in their early to mid twenties until recently (particularly in Montreal where I used to live in the 90’s). However, I found it increasingly difficult to meet girls in that age range that I am most attracted to, in dance bars or social events over the past few years (may I add that I am still young looking and in good shape, but may be no Richard Gere though). And that is why I decided to start the hobby less than a year ago in order to continue to be with girls in the age range that I am most attracted to (the ones providing GFE services). I am fully aware however, that most likely this is a fictitious moment that I am buying and it is unlikely for a twenty year old to be so attracted (and in love with someone she just met) to a man twice her age. but this is the whole idea of Escort services (or at least this was my understanding until now). Those guys who are young (in their twenties) and very attractive and athletic will have no problem meeting young and attractive girls using dating agencies or in social events (like I used to, myself until recently). Escort services however, are in large part for more mature but may be not very young or perfect looking guys who wish to be intimate with their dream girls (unless I misunderstood the whole concept of escort services). In my view, those who provide the GFE services regardless of their clients’ looks, age or race are the ones providing professional Escort services (No offence intended to anyone, it is just my personal view), and yes needless to say that FULL RESPECT FROM CLIENTS must be expected too. Looks, age and race are factors beyond our control. These are not choices that we make in our lives, but being respectful is. Just imagine how difficult it would become for me (and may be many others), in a decade or two from now, if Escort services turn gradually into Dating services when we have to provide our photos and be selected based upon our age, (may be race) and physical attraction!!!!!.

 

I have a much better understanding now on the part of those SPs asking for photos for safety reasons and I have no problem now providing my photo to a well known SP on cerb provided I am totally convinced that the photo requested is for SP’s safety concerns. However, I will likely decline and move on to the next SP, if I am calling an unknown SP (especially if her picture is taken from the back or hiding her face) or if I am not convinced about the reason for photo request. In particular, if I am calling someone half my age and she is asking for my photo that could be for this new physical attraction, age and race criteria.

 

At the end I would like to add that it has been a very interesting debate that we were able to put forward our views (in support or against) on this very interesting topic, mostly in a very healthy environment where we were able to learn from each other and may be also able to change a mind or two about some of the important issues (SP’s safety issue in particular) and I thank everyone who participated sincerely.

[r100rs 859]

great reply by the Mod.

 

I personally would NOT send a pic as I have spent my whole life avoiding big brother(I don't even let my friends take my picture)....I at least know that at my wake there will NOT be a video screen with the loop of lame pictures representing my life.

 

r100rs

[Kubrickfan 12836]

Since this thread is all my fault :), I just wanted to add some final comments unless things get hopping again.

 

My initial post was based on an actual experience that happened a day or two prior to my posting. I was surprised by the request, but I had no idea whether this was a more common request than I realized because, frankly, I dont have that many experiences under my belt. So, I thought it would make a good topic for the courtesan discussion and that hopefully I'd get a few client and SP comments. Loneskater was right ... I had no idea I would get so many great responses.

 

I'm glad that the thread seems to have caused clients and SPs to understand each other a bit better, and that's a good thing. We were able to keep to the subject pretty much without yelling at each other or trying to guess who the SP is. That's good as well.

 

When these ladies walk into a hotel room not their own, to meet a client that they have never seen before, they are making a tremendous leap of faith and I respect that immensely. I am happiest if they feel comfortable and safe, although I doubt that's possible for any lady the first time they meet a new client. Possibly they will feel safer with a client photo (either for their physical security or a sense that their identity is less likely to be disclosed), and I will never question this. However, its not something I will ever be comfortable doing out of my own sense of personal security. For the benefit of the ladies that want this, I'm glad to see there are guys willing to supply a photo. Whether this is something that will grow as a requirement or not will be something for the market to decide.

 

I really appreciate all the time and thought that everyone put into their posts ... many, many thanks!

[FredFlintstone 100]

Lots of great comments here, but I thought I'd offer my P.O.V.:

 

1) On the question of blackmail...gents, what do you think is really going to be more damaging if it gets into the hands of a spouse, loved one, employer, etc.: a GIF or JPEG headshot of yourself, or an email from your personal address inquiring about rates, do you do Greek?, etc.?

Perhaps I'm missing something -- perhaps Kubrickfan was asked to provide something other than a normal head-and-shoulders, or perhaps many of you are using disposable Hotmail or Yahoo addresses to contact SPs -- but I have to believe that if someone's inclined to blackmail you, there are far better ways.

 

2) I totally agree with the "safety" argument. True, you can't tell a serial killer or creep from a photo, but you might get some kind of Spidey sense tingling that tells you "Not this one." I also think that there is the matter of emotional "safety", or safeguarding one's self-esteem and ability to dictate to the greatest extent possible what they do with their body, and who they do it with. Considering the intimacy of the act we're discussing here, I completely support freedom of choice, on both sides.

 

3) Last point: it's a free market, people. As many have pointed out, there are lots of SPs out there who don't ask for photos. If you meet one who does, and it irritates you, what are the chances you're going to have a good uninhibited time with that person even if you do submit a pic? Vote with your dollars -- you have that right too!

[Guest hot_lyxxx]

This has been to say the least an extremely interesting and controversial thread. Personally, I would have to be guided by my intuition, the situation and the SP making the request. I am a private person and I respect the privacy of others all while I understand or at least think I do why an SP would like to have a picture of a potential client. Frankly, I don't know how comfortable I would feel about providing one and I have never been asked for one on the few occasions I've experienced being with an SP. I only had the advantage on one occasion of having had the benefit of her photos beforehand and it did help relieve my anxieties much more so than going in cold and unknowing. No doubt this is true on the other end and I can certainly see why an SP would like a picture. Safety, comfort, security versus discretion and anonimity? In this day and age of technology I don't think any of us can go about our lives without being observed. Ottawa isn't all that big and it seems that no matter where I go I always stumble upon someone I know be it in a restaurant or hotel lobby or whatever. I've run across various friends or coworkers over the years who have been in what could be termed compromising positions. Sometimes it's a matter of risk management, but as I said at the onset of my comments I rely heavily on my intuition and the situation/SP involved.

[Dreamgirl 246]

allright anyone want to go on a date, lol