What The Heck is going on in the UK

[cory 100]

Recent News Tonight, Reports of Mass Destruction in the United Kingdom! Arson, and other related activities has been reported! Whats is going on with this. Tell me What you Think All Comments Welcome:

Meanwhile Prayers are going out to the friends and Family being Impacted by this type of War.

[Lowdark 5613]

i actually just finished readin an online media report about this. Apparently, the first riot was sparked during an initially peaceful protest over a police shooting in Tottenham (there aparently will be a hearing over police conduct regarding the man's death, but it may not be for a month or two). Violence broke out and it's spread across the entire country, quite possibly with the aid of social media. A lot of it seems to be wanton violence and looting. The police have made over 230 arrests but their jail cells are already full. Fortunately, there haven't been any deaths but there is one man in his 60's whose in critical condition because he tried to put out a fire that was started during a riot and he was attacked by a gang of rioters for his trouble. It's almost like Vancouver a few months ago, but across an entire country.

[Alexandra-Sky 12606]

I have lots of awesome articles to post when I get a chance but I think that the bottom line is that inequality has reached a peak and that people have had enough. This is their form of revolting. Now, whether or not people recognize this as a legitimate form of resistance is a whole different story and should be discussed further elsewhere.

[Kubrickfan 12836]

I don't think this has anything to do with a genuinely political issue. It's a bunch of kids and lowlifes that think they can get away with it because the UK police are traditionally (and almost laughably) light handed in dealing with these sorts of issues.

 

It will likely stop as soon as these people see there is a definite price to pay in terms of pain and jail time. Already seems to be better once there was a larger police presence last night.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

There were similar riots in the summer of 1981 when gangs of black and white youth attacked banks, shops and fought with police. It spreaded to all major cities in UK. Some were saying it was political (coincided with Charles and Diana's wedding). I think that whenever, the economy is in bad shape and there are plenty of youth out there unemployed instead of having paying responsible jobs, this happens in Britain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_England_riots

 

The British youth have a reputation for violence (specially in soccer and racial discords). There is nothing legitimate about violence and setting people's cars and homes and stores on fire no matter what the reason may be. Britain is fairly democratic country and the standard of living of the rioting youth even if unemployed is much higher than many countries in the world. UK is not a dictatorship where the unelected regime supresses its people and people can vote a govenment in or out. So, any riot is not justified.

[Guest S***dst***]

The poorer class citizens in Britain tend to be more violent as a generalization.

I have a friend who moved to Canada about 10 years ago with his parents. He told me stories of their first few months here that made me go...what??

 

His parents were so protective of their children over in the UK, they were shocked and amazed at how little "escorting" was done/required by Canadian Parents. It seemed the norm for children in The UK to get stabbed walking to/from school, in a random alley, coming out of the local shoppe etc

So being around Canadian parents who let their kids walk, alone, to the store or take a bus by themselves to school...freaked the hell out of them. They simply could not believe they let their children freely roam around and just expected them to come home.

 

 

There was also a whole thing with clear cut seasons being almost unique to Canada aswell, and needing to adapt to them, but that's not part of this topic.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

Correct. I used to live in Britain and even live in college/university residences. The youth were/are really violent over there. Lots of robbery, car thefts committed by them. Racially motivated attacks were/are widespread all over by gangs of skinheads on colored people most of them even born there. Rape is so widespread that women are scared to go out at night and are usually escorted even within student residences, dormatories. Violence On or off streets, in the soccer stadiums, in the schools, on streets, almost everywhere mostly by kids as young as 12 and youth as old as 21. My 12 year old nephew was attacked on his way home from school and beaten in front of her sister and robbed off his money while his sister (my niece) ran for help.....Not acceptable. They need discipline. Mandatory national service may do them good lol.

[Guest C**rAz****e]

I think it's about a cop shooting somebody but now now I think it's about anarchism

[Guest E*******h S******s]

I think it's less about anarchism and more about too many kids having too much time on their hands with little or no parenting. Making parents legally and financially responsible for their offspring's misdeeds might be a good step in the right direction.

[Alexandra-Sky 12606]

There is a context to London's riots that can't be ignored

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/08/context-london-riots

 

Particularly: "Combine understandable suspicion of and resentment towards the police based on experience and memory with high poverty and large unemployment and the reasons why people are taking to the streets become clear. (Haringey, the borough that includes Tottenham, has the fourth highest level of child poverty in London and an unemployment rate of 8.8%, double the national average, with one vacancy for every 54 seeking work in the borough.)

Those condemning the events of the past couple of nights in north London and elsewhere would do well to take a step back and consider the bigger picture: a country in which the richest 10% are now 100 times better off than the poorest, where consumerism predicated on personal debt has been pushed for years as the solution to a faltering economy, and where, according to the OECD, social mobility is worse than any other developed country."

 

*we will understand nothing of these events if we ignore the history and the context in which they occur*

 

The UK riots: the psychology of looting

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/aug/09/uk-riots-psychology-of-looting

 

London Riots. (The BBC will never replay this. Send it out)

 

 

Let's stop assuming the police are on our side

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/26/metropolitan-police-arrests-hacking

[The General 11309]

Life is not simple, nor should people think it is. People went through the depression in the 20s and had it more difficult than anyone has today.

 

However, we live in period where instant gratification is available and somewhat expected. Many of the youth today have had it fairly easy, while others see no hope. I do believe that people have opportunity if they want and are willing to work for it. There is no justification in rioting and trying to find a rational reason for it. I find it inexcusable and we should not go looking for a reason to condone the actions of the individuals.

[Alexandra-Sky 12606]

Life is not simple, nor should people think it is. People went through the depression in the 20s and had it more difficult than anyone has today.

 

However, we live in period where instant gratification is available and somewhat expected. Many of the youth today have had it fairly easy, while others see no hope. I do believe that people have opportunity if they want and are willing to work for it. There is no justification in rioting and trying to find a rational reason for it. I find it inexcusable and we should not go looking for a reason to condone the actions of the individuals.

 

My point was moreso around the idea that it's silly to just dimiss the riots as an immature act by people who "don't have nothing better to do" and that context plays a large part in any action of this sort.

[The General 11309]

I wonder how you would then categorize the acts?

 

My point was moreso around the idea that it's silly to just dimiss the riots as an immature act by people who "don't have nothing better to do" and that context plays a large part in any action of this sort.

[Guest E*******h S******s]

Juvenile crime has been a long standing problem in Britain. Personally, I would prefer to empathize with the people who's businesses have been destroyed.

 

Are there issues with the police? Absolutely. Is there a large divide between the "haves" and the "have nots"? Again, absolutely. Just like the divide widens in North America.

 

However, these issues do not give the youth of the country to rip apart everybody else's lives.

 

My next door neighbours were UK immigrants who emigrated to Canada after the Brixton riots in '81. They owned a small shop. When they tried to prevent their livelihood from being destroyed, he was nearly killed and she was gangraped by a group of teenage thugs.

 

I guess I'm biased.

[Alexandra-Sky 12606]

To be honest, I can't really comment on whether or not I agree with the acts because of my limited amount of knowledge on the situation. What I do know is that it seems like the phrase "desperate acts call for desperate measures" likely applies here. I can't really imagine why else people would risk their lives to riot if their lives weren't already characterized by things like the article mentions: a huge poverty gap, large police violence against the people.

 

Again though, my point wasn't really that the riots are legitimate forms of protest, but rather that, before we make comments like "they have nothing better to do" perhaps it's good to get some context.

[Lowdark 5613]

Three men who were trying to protect their neighbourhood lost their lives because of this. There are plenty of social undercurrents at work here; high unemployment, poverty, distrust of the police by some communities and a negligent police presence (if there had been 16000 officers in full riot gear on Monday, most of the rioters wouldn't have left their homes). But in the end, these riots will only hurt those who are rioting. There will be no jobs for them after this, no brighter futures beyond their temporary satisfaction and judging by the police's aggressive posture many will have criminal records complicating their lives. Some are going to sacrifice some freedom so if having too much free time on their hands was a problem, it won't be for a few years. Politicians will have now have an excuse to crack down on civil liberties if they decide to. There's already talk of the British police reforming their tactics (despite their recent problems, British police have long refused to use common North American weapons like water cannons and tear gas-those days are probably gone). Community trust will be lost becuse the rioters are destroying their own neighbourhoods, assualting their own neighbours. But I truly despise people excusing their own violent behaviour by using their economic standing. It's an insult to people who are enduring tough times who choose not steal and murder. Do things need to change? Absolutely. But these cowards need to crack a book and read about people like Ghandi, Martin Luther King Jr. and Mother Theresa, people who changed the world for the better and never raised a fist or shed blood to do it.

[BownChickaBown 4829]

With London/UK, I see acts of class warfare taking place born out of the festering surrogate of dehumanizing inequality (ex: racism), conquering elitism, divisive individualism, unsustainable consumerism and selfish capitalism, among other stressors and agitators motivating people to lose their mature emotional intelligence and civil impulse control.

 

The riots appear to be a projection of perceived hopelessness and manifested from the in-opportunistic catalyst of the state police killing a citizen, which could be seen as an assault on the values and ethics one believes in when living in a so-called democracy, whereby oppression and repression (and death!) of anyone not in favour of the state, and it's clique, can happen anywhere and anytime - even in London/UK.

 

There is no condoning greed, ever - imho it's the greatest mental disease and pandemic the World has ever seen. Unfortunately, more often then not, continued apathetic conformity provides enough tacit approval until the tipping point is reached, and 'regimes' are attacked, sometimes even toppled.

 

In the end though, two wrongs don't make a right, make peace not war.

 

Carpe Peaciem!

[Old Dog 179138]

... shares his perspective.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a5UuyHVYxA&feature=related

 

and then this...

 

 

... hooligans picking up a person that was attacked by a mob... only so that they could get better access to the stuff in his pockets and knapsack.

 

This... is the justification for some.... `getting our taxes back`by stealing from retailers.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=37ThsaWaFx4

[Alexandra-Sky 12606]

... shares his perspective.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a5UuyHVYxA&feature=related

 

 

 

"A gun was found at the scene and a spokesman for the independent police watchdog said it appeared the officer was shot first before police returned fire.

However, one eyewitness claimed the suspect was killed as he lay on the ground in Ferry Lane"

 

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23975846-man-shot-dead-by-police-in-tottenham.do

 

It seems to me that even though this man supposedly shot at police, that they killed him while he was lying on the ground after they had shot him down. So really, he was no longer a threat to them at this point, but knowing the police, they killed him anyway.

 

I generally still wonder why people have such large trust in the institution that is the police. There was even a thread going on last week or so about the crap that they do.

 

Well, I'm headed off of this thread. It was nice to have these discussions with you folks. Bed time for me.

 

oh and before i go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBgRd12vzv4&feature=player_embedded

[Kubrickfan 12836]

Knowing a little something about the principles involved, the police are perfectly justified in continuing to shoot until the immediate threat is eliminated. Even if he is on the ground, or upside down for that matter, if he is holding the gun and its pointed in the general direction of the police, that's an immediate threat and it must be eliminated. Assuming the police dont have physical control of the guy, the only way to do that is to direct fire at the guy until he drops or lowers the gun. You cant wait for the guy to take the first shot, or the wrong person is going to get shot and possibly killed.

 

Although I admit its besides the point, the guy that got shot was apparently a known violent gang member who had been in prison multiple times. Then he shows shows up bopping around with a handgun (strictly illegal in the UK) and threatens the police with it. The UK and the world is better off without him.

 

And as to the riots, although it might be interesting debating why they are occuring, doing it in the context of rationalizing the behavior based on police actions here, or because of class envy, or whatever, is a really really bad idea and it serves to somehow justify the behavior, making it more likely to happen again. It wouldn't matter to me if the police lined up 10 people and shot them because of their race ... still not justified. Never justified, as SA implies, in a properly functioning republic.