How can SOME ugly men be shallow?

[SmartnSexy 2089]

I've really appreciated reading everyone's thoughts on the subject at hand and must say that I tend to agree with those that state that beauty is different from one person to the next.

 

One thing that I would like to inquire about Fiamma Chi is the premise your subject line assumes. The thread title being "How can SOME ugly men be shallow?" means that the assumption is that ugly men have no right or justification for being shallow (at the very least we're assuming that handsome men do have that right or justification).

 

It also seems to indicate that men who are considered less attractive, should "settle" for girls who are in their equivalent "range". I would have a strong inclination to disagree with this. I personally don't consider myself to be particularly physically attractive, however I've never let that stop me from approaching women who are "out of my league" (I dislike that term :P).

 

Why is this? Primarily because I am an intelligent and funny person who makes decent coin and can be very kind to those he cares for. All of these are (unless I've been lied to) prime elements of what women seek in a relationship.

 

People have all sorts of reasons for acting the way they do. One of the things I will hear most often from women is that confidence is very high on the list of attractors and that physical aspects are secondary. Perhaps your friend was only attempting to act in a confident manner.

 

I will certainly agree that the comment was rude, your friend should have known enough to keep his mouth shut.

 

With regards to the cougars, trust me, they're out there. Just because you don't know them doesn't mean that they don't exist. One of the unfortunate realities of our society is that that behavior from women is still somewhat shunned or looked down upon, while it is completely acceptable for a man to do the same. Fortunately as time marches on opinions change and people tend to pull their heads out of their asses, if only just a little.

 

So to answer your question I would have to say, SOME ugly men can be shallow just like SOME handsome men are, the reasons behind it can be numerous. Walking the fine line between confidence and arrogance can be difficult and in the future I'd encourage you to politely reproach your friend when he steps out of line. Don't put him down, but let him know that that behavior isn't acceptable.

 

If he isn't a jerk he'll handle it well and you can move in and if he is a jerk, well then you'll know he's a jerk and can proceed with that knowledge in hand. ;)

[Guest f***2f***]

I have to agree....shallowness is not a respecter of looks or age. I think the guy in question at the beginning of this thread has his own issues...low self esteem and inferiority complex...he made the comment to make himself feel better and wasn't smart enough to realize that it would turn you off. It sounds like he does that often as he complained he can't find a GF...Gee I wonder why?

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

I have dated men before whom I did not have that" OMG I am attracted to you" feeling. My BF was very overweight, who had constant candids, diabetes and all the undesirable traits. But none the same I found something so special about that person that made me want to be with him. He had morals, great attitude, just all around great guy!

But I did learn that if you are not sexually attracted, then no matter how hard we tried, we just could not make it work:( Our sex life did suffer, and this did not help his (or mine) self esteem, as we were not being sexually fulfilled.

It hurt me to break his heart and leave, but really I had to. For his sake and mine. i did not want to have a relationship that was sexless. That cant be good for either of us.

So I did learn what my own needs and standards are, but NEVER NEVER would I look at a person and judge them for their size, race or any other "difference" we may have!!

Like a used car sales men said once....there is an ass for every seat!!LOl

[Nicolette Vaughn 294340]

I once went on an outcall to a hotel and had some guy who was probably about 5'8" and 275 lbs telling me I wasn't thin enough like the picture that was posted on my ad. Basically saying I had pulled a bait and switch. He said I looked heavier in person and was not thin enough at 113 lbs which he knew. He said I looked thinner in the picture and that I was too "fat" for him. The picture in question was taken a week before.lol.

 

Well anyways, all this happened when I got inside of the hotel room and when he said that, I told him this was not going to work out and I would not stay if he didn't like my appearance and that I couldn't go through feeling that way. He got all pissy, telling me I would "do" for the hour. I said "No thanks" and remember saying the following like it was yesterday.. I said, " If you think I'm fat, take a look in the mirror. You might want to spend your money on a diet plan that will actually work for you instead of calling escorts." I don't know where it came from but I just blurted it and slammed the door behind me. I walked down the hall shaking from disbelief of what just happened and could hear him calling me a fucking bitch. He seemed like the type of person who liked to try to intimidate people, be in control because HE was paying and he thought he could do this with me but he was wrong. He did not expect to hear that come out of my mouth. And I'm positive because of his attitude and demeanor, insecurity/confidence issues definitely came into play here.

 

I think the OP's friend is an insecure person which is why he has to cut other people down. I've seen guys do this and I just laugh. I consider myself pleasantly plump and have had a lot of attractive guys who were into me. I also think it has to do with attitude which goes right back to this friend we are discussing. When someone makes certains comments all it takes is one remark and you can see the person in a completely different light. Attractive men can be shallow as well and I also consider many of them to have equal insecurites that others look past because they have nice physical attributes. I am not a conceited person but I don't feel that have confidene issues either. Sure, I have some weight on me but I consider myself attractive and if someone doesn't like it, who cares. Life is too short.

[Kubrickfan 12836]

A few things:

 

1. First, I cant imagine what would happen if a guy started this thread with the same title other than substituting the word "women" for "men." I suspect, however, that the ladies here would give him the digital equivalent of a proctology exam with a baseball bat. (smile)

 

2. Guys are shallow ... that's not a revelation. If they weren't, the ladies here would be posting poems they have authored and scientific theories they have created instead of naughty pictures of themselves. Attractive looks are a sociobilogocal fact of life. But that means very different things to different guys. (However .. ahem ... there's probably a strong consensus around Megan Fox (smile))

 

3. For women, I'm guessing that attractiveness is important but so is confidence. strength (physical and/or mental ... is this guy going to help lead the family?) and sincerity (is this guy going to cheat on me?). Again, all based on evolution to some extent.

[Andee 220524]

There will be people that want you, but they will likely be in their 60's. It has been my experience that men tend to like women that are 10 to 15 years younger than themselves. I am speaking in generalities, I understand that. There will certainly be gentlemen your own age that find you attractive, but they will be far fewer in number than when you are in your 20's or 30's and a lot of the ones that are interested will already be married. Sad....but true.

 

Which is why even when I turned 50, I am still the "young gal" to some of these guys. I either get the older guys who want a mature lady or younger guys who want a mature lady or guys who don't care about age.

 

In my personal life, I find mostly guys around my age or older. They have tried dating younger women and realize at 48 or 50, if they don't have something very special to offer a younger woman, they usually strike out.

[casinolad 322]

Firstly, I'd just like to interject that generally speaking, I believe on an initial, purely visual basis, women are as shallow as men. How could they not be? They have no other criteria except the image presented before them. They can be as harsh or as kind as a man would be in their opinions and judgements...people are people.

 

As far the guy in question, too bad what he sees in someone is the negative and not the qualities that have been overlooked in his initial put downs. It says a lot about his character and the way he views the world...and I would suspect that it's not only women but other aspects of his life that he judges as harshly. It's never about him, how can the world be so unfair? To the poster...better to find this out now then when you would have been more emotionally involved. Good riddance.

 

Beauty? So subjective. Take Rita Macneil...probably not everyone's typical image of loveliness...certainly not mine...and yet when I see her smile, it completely lights up her face and I cannot help but think how beautiful she is. I truly feel no matter who you are, or what you look like, I could compliment something about the person within 1 minute of having met them..but then again, I search for the beauty in someone, not their flaws...after all, there's only been 1 perfect person in our history, and look what they did to him...P

[Guest S***dst***]

Hmm. I'm conflicted with this thread. (and I think I'm going to ramble in replying, I apologize in advance)

 

Facts I agree with:

1 - No, he should not have been mean about someone elses appearance, not because of his own, but you should never judge anyone on appearance.

2 - Most people know what category of attractive they fit in. He was likely doing (above) to make himself feel better about his own insecurities.

3 - Women can be just as shallow as men.

4 - People are attractive to some people and not to others, physical beauty is subjective

 

Facts I don't agree with:

1 - "ugly" (I hate this word) men/women have no right to pick and chose who they want to date. The only true freedom we have is our right to chose. Take it away and you may aswell be a robot. It definetly wouldn't be easy for a 5 to get with a 9 but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try if it's what they want.

2 - (commence flogging) While physical attraction may be a secondary consideration (primarily for women) a relationship will not succeed if there is no physical attraction/capability/intimacy.

3 - We are all on the same journey through life. For better or worse, be it in our control or due to some thing out of our control, everyone ends up on one path or another. That does not make anyone superior to anyone else. I don't remember why this was relevant but I noted it as I was reading the posts...I think it involves the comment about Doctors/intellegent people being with people of lower "capabilities/intellect"

You know nuclear physics, I know biology/medicine and that guy knows everything about cars...but none of us know what the other does so why are we incompatible?

 

I never found Britney Spears attractive, I also don't find (incoming flogging) Megan Fox attractive. I don't find anyone "unattractive" unless they show me a side of themselves that makes me view them that way.

I DO find P!nk insanly attractive and most people think she's disgusting (females aswell) but case in point.

 

Attractive men can be this shallow aswell and often are; but are accepted and not judged for it. Why is it wrong ONLY because he's not attractive? Would you have accepted his critique as detestible if he was Brad Pitt ? (or whom ever your hunk of choice happens to be)

It's just wrong. Period.

 

I find many of the arguments invalid here aswell.

Can anyone honestly tell me they've walked up to a man/women they knew nothing about and asked them out, without first being attracted to them in some way?

What prompted you to approach them?

 

I challenge any of you, in your personal lives, to approach someone (or if approached by someone who is) "unattractive" and ask them on a date. A serious date.

 

Could you do it?

[Guest f***2f***]

OMG I love Pink!! I would do her in a heartbeat!! lol I'd even waive the Fat Bastards AGency outcall fee lol

[loopie 15358]

People are hyper critical of celebrities. Snarking on celebs is just a hobby for lots of people. For the most part, any famous person who is considered attractive, is very attractive. There's lots of famous sex symbol women who I've never ever fantasized about, but in real life any of them would be more than pretty enough for me. I find it silly when people feel they have to exaggerate to get their opinions across. I think it's enough to just say "She's cute but not my ultimate fantasy.", you don't have to go as far as to call them "gross" or something.

 

This video sums it up well:

I like this lady.

 

P.S.

And I like Pink too. She's a sexy tough tomboy and I'd gladly get outdrank by her any day of the week.

[Gentleman11 10508]

As much as I've found this thread interesting so far, it is not worth a second glass of Shiraz. Can we lighten up here a bit? At the end of the day there is plenty of shallowness and DEPTH to go around on both sides. Hey, this is a fun site right, that doesn't preclude informed opionons and passion, but let's keep it in proportion a bit more.

 

Musings from a simple guy....

 

G11

[Fiamma Chi 177]

There will be people that want you, but they will likely be in their 60's. It has been my experience that men tend to like women that are 10 to 15 years younger than themselves. I am speaking in generalities, I understand that. There will certainly be gentlemen your own age that find you attractive, but they will be far fewer in number than when you are in your 20's or 30's and a lot of the ones that are interested will already be married. Sad....but true.

 

It's not really sad. I'm not all that surprised. I guess...cougar it is for me. At least then everything will be full circle. The circle of life.

[Guest E*******h S******s]

It's not really sad. I'm not all that surprised. I guess...cougar it is for me. At least then everything will be full circle, lol. At least then everything will be full circle. The circle of life.

 

Perhaps you might want to be a "cougar". To assume that all older women are cougars is erroneous. Many of us prefer men our own age and aren't attracted to those much younger than ourselves. And the fact that men my age are more interested in women a decade or more younger than themselves, makes ME sad. While I don't assume that the majority agree with me, I'm sure I'm not alone in that sentiment.

[dexterS3 134]

I will be honest when I first met my ex i wasn't really attracted to her but as i am not 19 i decide to look past the looks because of what she brought to the relationship, the stability,how much she cared her family values i could go on etc.

There is alot of reason to love someone not based on looks.

 

If you any of you ever watch biggest loser etc will see that often bigger people have a prettier face/nicer smile than someone tiny.

 

When i worked waiting tables in the resturant i loved having people over weight etc as they were much nicer and polite than someone who thinks there s**t don't stink and usally the best tipper :). wether because they were treated fair or better not sure.

 

But to make this site and world a better place its important to accept all shapes,sizes races etc.

 

I hope your friend wakes up before its too late.

[Fiamma Chi 177]

Perhaps you might want to be a "cougar". To assume that all older women are cougars is erroneous. Many of us prefer men our own age and aren't attracted to those much younger than ourselves. And the fact that men my age are more interested in women a decade or more younger than themselves, makes ME sad. While I don't assume that the majority agree with me, I'm sure I'm not alone in that sentiment.

 

Oh I know not all older women are cougars. I think in the original post I noted that women don't date younger men as often as men date younger women. I was merely being facetious, and I apologize. Making light of the situation is how I deal with things. When I said full circle, I was referring to myself, not to women in general. Because generally I attract older men now but when I get to be their age, they probably won't find me attractive(assuming I look my age) so I will have to date men even older than me, stay a bachalorette...or be someone's Sugar Mama. Although since Mae West was able to do it I think I'll be in good company. LOL

 

And I find it disappointing too, but not sad.

 

I don't find it sad because.... a mature woman doesn't need a man who's too immature/shallow approach, so it's his loss, not her's. At least that's the way I see it. If no one admires a diamond does that make it less beautiful? I think not.

 

 

I think SOME(operative word) men are intimidated by women their own age, but their ego's won't let them admit to it. They are not just attracted to younger women, they simply don't feel as intimidated by them as they would a woman their own age. I think mature women are simply GORGEOUS. And they have way more to offer than someone my age does usually: intellectually,personally,mentally and spiritually. So the man is only hurting himself, not the woman.

 

But I appreciate your thoughts on the subject, and indeed everyone else's.

 

And I wasn't talking about ALL men in this post. Or even most men. I meant a small subset of men that are shallow when it comes to looks without being attractive themselves and then complain about how they can't find a date, in a city where people are not ugly or obese, and women outnumber the men.

 

The odds are in their favor but they still complain because they are being unrealistic. As to why...I could only guess. And people have offered good answers.

[mrrnice2 157005]

Shallowness is a characteristic that cannot be associated solely with men nor with women as it is something that crosses gender boundaries.

 

What is attractive to one person may be entirely different for another. Both men and women come in all sizes, shapes and ages. They also all come with varying degrees of personality traits - be it maturity, intelligence, charisma, a sense of humour, honesty, and the list goes on.

 

Initial interest in another person as a potential dating partner is often based on physical appearance alone, as would happen in day to day encounters when one does not know the other person other than by their visual presence.

 

Similarly, and for some of us Cerb may be the best test of this, initial interest and attraction for another person as a dating partner could be based not on the visual presented but rather by the words, thoughts, and personality expressed in ones writing. That is the ultimate aphrodesiac for some.

 

Ultimately as has been pointed out numerous times in this thread, the success of a relationship will be based on ones response to the whole person, physically and emotionally and intellectually.

 

Age differences between partners has been brought up here numerous times and is an interesting factor as well. One wonders if there is indeed a genetic or innate factor built in based on our predisposition as a species to precreate - hence for men the choice of women of child bearing years or for women of a man who is older and able to care for them. The biology of our species may be important, even in these progressive 2000's?

[Nicolette Vaughn 294340]

I know a guy in his 50's and had been recently divorced. He was always trying to go after women in their 20's and would then bitch about how he couldn't find anyone. I told him perhaps he should be realistic and instead of going solely on looks and sex appeal, that he should find someone with characteristics that go well beyond physical attributes. I think I talked some sense into him because he met a woman a few years younger than him and months later, they moved in together and are happy.

 

I think people should be realistic when trying to find someone to spend their life with. I've met guys in their 20's and while they were fun to be with, there was too much of an age difference and I couldn't see them being anything more than a boy toy or booty call. I also couldn't go to the opposite end of the spectrum and be with someone who was 10 years + older than me. I tried it and it didn't work out. I'm better with someone my own age or plus or minus 2-3 years. I don't think people should settle but at the same time, they have to be realistc because dating someone young enough to be your son or daughter most likely will never work. Life isn't about tits and ass because those tits and ass won't look as good as they did the day you met them.lol.

[castle 38816]

After working years in the customer service industry I can say with absolute certainty that assholes come in every shape, size and color......hell...with my knowledge of assholes I could easily become a proctologist. Sure the pay would be better but then I'd have to look at assholes all day instead of just listening to them fart in my ear all day :p .....(So glad it's friday lol)

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[loopie 15358]

Considering what I've seen in my lifetime, I don't think I'd ever be able to tell somebody what they should "realistically" be aiming for in a partner. I don't think I would ever tell an older guy not to aim for younger women; nor would I tell somebody I thought wasn't good-looking not to aim for good-looking people. I've seen so many couples that would seem completely mismatched on the surface that I know opposites attract as often as they don't. So as for what any person can "realistically" expect to find when looking for love, the answer is 'anything'. So much of it just seems like luck and chance. You should just go for what you want.