SDT/STI oral poll

[d*mm*y 887]

K the question begs to be answered, this is open to hobbiests and SP and the more the better of course. The question begs and answer and your anonymity is guaranteed. Of course Mod will be able to see if someone logs on through multiple accounts to scew the numbers however I believe it is in everyone's best interest to keep this one 100 accurate, our health and good time are on the line here.

 

By the way you can muti vote just in case someone has contracted multiple STD/STI's from multiple scenario's

[d*mm*y 887]

In the spirit of Mod's post (if this poll can be construed in that spirit cause I don't think he is 100% sold on the idea) Lets ensure that the client SP relationship are the professional SP's that we have come to love and the streetwalkers and etc... shall be in the non or other category.

[TRman 536]

Hey dummpy, my understanding is that the vast majority of a transfer of any desease is due to open wounds. As explained to me by a doctor, the risk with a bbbj is still there, but very remote. Transfer is done through open wounds, or directly to the bloodstream. That being said, with anal sex there is significant tearing etc. With vaginal intercourse there is less as the vagina self lubes and is designed not to tear (although microscopically it still does) - and yes the pickle has very sensitive skin and can and does tear as well, but saliva kills most anything. With a BBBJ, there are chances of STD's coming back from the giver, but little on the way of the receiver. With respect to the swallow (the act on its own), I understand that the chances of any transfer are as close to nil as possible without being zero.

 

Therefore, my understanding by conclusion is, if you have a BBBJ the least concern on the women's part is the swallow. If a girl gives you the blowjob bare, there is no, or almost no harm in going the step further.

 

If someone wants to contradict, please continue the thread with me.

[r100rs 859]

I have heard that it's not a great idea to brush your teeth immediately before giving oral sex since brushing causes micro tears.

 

I noticed in the poll that there was no option for psychosomatic STDs :mrgreen: as we have all had an itch scratch sensation and thought oh shit!

 

r100rs.

[d*mm*y 887]

Now that is a good one but probably accounts for most guys being tested !! I know it was a strong instigator the first time I found the clinic that and my ex in universtiy called me and mentioned that she had the clap and was not sure if she got it after our last time or before!! Luckily it must have been after.

 

I have heard that it's not a great idea to brush your teeth immediately before giving oral sex since brushing causes micro tears.

 

I noticed in the poll that there was no option for psychosomatic STDs :mrgreen: as we have all had an itch scratch sensation and thought oh shit!

 

r100rs.

[Narman 117]

Hey dummpy, my understanding is that the vast majority of a transfer of any desease is due to open wounds. As explained to me by a doctor, the risk with a bbbj is still there, but very remote. Transfer is done through open wounds, or directly to the bloodstream. That being said, with anal sex there is significant tearing etc. With vaginal intercourse there is less as the vagina self lubes and is designed not to tear (although microscopically it still does) - and yes the pickle has very sensitive skin and can and does tear as well, but saliva kills most anything. With a BBBJ, there are chances of STD's coming back from the giver, but little on the way of the receiver. With respect to the swallow (the act on its own), I understand that the chances of any transfer are as close to nil as possible without being zero.

 

Therefore, my understanding by conclusion is, if you have a BBBJ the least concern on the women's part is the swallow. If a girl gives you the blowjob bare, there is no, or almost no harm in going the step further.

 

If someone wants to contradict, please continue the thread with me.

 

This is only half true. This is true of HIV and other blood-borne viral infections like Hep C, etc. but the most common std/sti's, like chlamydia (the most common), gonorrhea (#2), are bacterial and tend to infect mucous membranes easily. Oh and its also interesting to note that gonorrhea is becoming anti-biotic resistant.

 

(without giving too much information away, I will say that this is one of the aspects of my career)

[MissAva 376]

This is only half true. This is true of HIV and other blood-borne viral infections like Hep C, etc. but the most common std/sti's, like chlamydia (the most common), gonorrhea (#2), are bacterial and tend to infect mucous membranes easily. Oh and its also interesting to note that gonorrhea is becoming anti-biotic resistant.

 

(without giving too much information away, I will say that this is one of the aspects of my career)

 

 

It should also be mentioned that not all people even get symptoms of Chlamydia.... so its always best to get checked! Otherwise you Gents might have some explaining to do to your significant others.....yikes!

[d*mm*y 887]

It does appear in our micro poll that this seems an unlikely cause of any STD/STI in this area?? Is there anyone that will click any of the top six?? I know that if it happened to me and I had a chance to warn other anonymously that I would. Most of the studies regarding oral STD's and STI's have a very small percentage reporting due to oral however every test also mentions that it is dificult to say the actual casue because there can be other motivators for the condidates to miss lead about the actual sexual activites engaged. At one time I was surfing the interenet and found some great statisitcs on university populations and there sexual habbits and occurence of infection and disease, for the life of me I can't find it anymore, also found one that was specific to same sex partners and the actual clinical reasons why this is higher risk for general spread of sti and std, if anyone is in the trade or has the info and is unwilling to implicate themselves pm me and I will post it. I am an idiot about this stuff that is why I just keep going back and getting checked (ow oh was that an itch) I would love to see some definitive information that was not based on small samples or full of scenarios that the information may not be accurate.

[TRman 536]

Narman - as someone who seems to be in the know, what are the obvious sings of these STD's?

 

You are right, I was referring to HIV etc

[d*mm*y 887]

Maybe the scholarly types around here can comment on the size of the sample that would start to have some validity understanding that we can assume that in normal population terms these voters are "Hi Risk" as they engage in multiple partner encounters? Is 100 a good sample do we need 1000 or do we have enough to start to draw a conclusion???

[ulixestrojan 3757]

Maybe the scholarly types around here can comment on the size of the sample that would start to have some validity understanding that we can assume that in normal population terms these voters are "Hi Risk" as they engage in multiple partner encounters? Is 100 a good sample do we need 1000 or do we have enough to start to draw a conclusion???

 

D - this would be considered a convenience sample and is demonstrative rather than conclusive. A sample is not only based on numbers but on distribution and without any way of controlling distribution and for various biases, this sample does not tell us very much except that it points to the experience of a relatively high risk group. I suggest that there would need to be a set of qualifiers in order to come to "definitive conclusions" - but that is really not the purpose here, is it.

 

I have had an active sexual life active for about 26 years (30 if we include the time where it was only me and Ms Rosy Palm) and in that time I have had close to 800-900 partners (30-80 partners a year). This is more than some and less than others. The only thing I have ever contracted was a case of chlamydia in my early 20s, which I got from my girlfriend who was also the girlfriend of half the hockey team and we apparently shared everything.

 

Since then, I have a sexual health test at least 3 times a year and maintain a regular regimen of safer sexual practices. Sex is one of my hobbies and like all hobbies, I want to play as long as I am able. Wearing a condom is no different than wearing a helmet when I ride a motorcycle or putting the lens cap on my camera lens.

 

So, this is a qualitative case history, which combined with the quick and dirty quantitative sample data collected, will produce something closer to an understanding of the risk from bbbj in the Ottawa population.

 

The WHO data says it is a less safe practice but not as risky as unprotected vaginal or anal penetrative sex. Hey, the safest sex is no sex but then we are at risk of mental dementia. Take your pick.

[d*mm*y 887]

So UT in your opinion we don't have enough to go on to make a hypothesis? Can we not consider the known and look at the cross population of active (sexually that is not verbally) say that it is safe to assume that among the general populations of SP's and cents utilizing the cerb forum that it is very unlikely that oral sex will lead to any STD/STI? (just cause it looks like no one around here eer has, well except for maybe Frinto!!)?

 

Jus to wondering you can lecture me about this kind fo stuff and reaserch tomorrow, I know that when I took engineering that if you droped a peice of chalk to concrete 100zillion times that if it broke every time this became xyz's rule of chalk? It was also understood that one time the chalk might not break and would break the rule.

[d*mm*y 887]

Thanks to a few pointers from some of the members around here that wish to remain anonymous I have started to unravel some interesting info (well interesting to me). The world health organization does keep statistics on Canada (not Ottawa of course!) here; http://www.paho.org/English/DD/AIS/cp_124.htm

 

And this is some interesting stuff

 

"HIV\AIDS: At the end of 1999 there were an estimated 49,800 Canadians living with HIV/AIDS, a 24% increase from 1996. Approximately 4,190 Canadians became infected with HIV in 1999. From 1996-1999 there were increases in new HIV infections per year among homosexuals (30%), heterosexuals (26%) and females (48%), but a 27 % decline in the number of new infections among injection drug users. The incidence rate of AIDS cases in Canada in 2000 was about 17 per 1,000,000 population with a M:F ratio of 8.3:1.

 

Sexually transmitted infection (STIs): In 1999, there were 41,676 cases of chlamydia; 5,381 cases of gonorrhea; and 187 cases of syphilis."

 

Considering that is out of a population of @ 30,000,000, I do know that the Ottawa Clinic has very few cases, because I always chat them up when I am there! (the new female Dr is sexy as hell!!)

 

Also worth noting the WHO has concluded that 45,000 Canadians die each year from smoking, hmmm, glad i don't smoke, i think I have picked one of the safer hobbies!!

 

I am going out on a limb here as I do not have any hard evidence yet, however I am going to guess that the vast majority of these cases are in larger centers like Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal. As Ottawa acounts for less an 3% or @ 1,000,000 including or Quebec twin Gatineau even if we just extrapolate linearly that means in 2000 17 new AIDS cases here in Ottawa. And in 1999 1500 incidence of chlamydia, 150 cases of gonorrhea, and 5 cases of syphilis. It's no wonder why my Dr. is so relucant to check me for this stuff he must think I am waisting OHIP cash and his time.

 

Hopefully I will start to get some more stuff from the rest of you on this it is interesting and far from anything that I have ever researched before. I am an idiot wading through a world of acronyms and statistics that for the most part take about a week for me to decipher!

[Guest fl***gfi***rs]

From my own research I have also found out that gonorrhea and syphilis have far more prevalence in the gay community at this time. This is not to cast aspersions on anyone but it appears there is more high risk sexually activity going on that could lead to the dreaded G and S....

[rick_falcon 911]

I know that STDs are on the rise because teenagers are sexually active at a younger age than previous generations and even though it is not taught in school with sex ed., their ignorance makes them take bad decisions.

 

I read that gonorrhea and chlamydia are sky-rocketing with double-digit percentage increase per year. I mentioned teenagers above but in no way I intend to be biased towards a certain age group but the numbers and statistics are there: by the time they reach 18, close to 50% will have contracted an STD during their teenage years.

I will try to find that article again where I saw the numbers but I was surprised by the increase percentage, and this source was very serious and credible.

 

As for AIDS, it is true that it is a terrible situation for someone to have this illness and medecine has progressed immensely in the last decade. Nowadays, someone with AIDS will more likely die of old-age rather than AIDS itself because it can now be controlled. But they say that there are about 80 million cases worldwide. Out of 6.2 billion, it makes 1.3% of the population; and about half of the cases are in Africa so, the percentage drops even more. It is not to be taken lightly but, we must not get into a panic mode too fast; it's not seen everywhere.

 

But the Health Department recommends regular testing, and at the Ottawa Sex Health clinic, there are obvious posters that mentions it along with a website that provides information.

I went there recently for a preventive check-up, staff was very nice and I encourage everyone to ease their peace of mind and give them a visit.

[xxxAxxx 21016]

I'm personally a little shocked that there any votes in the "never checked" spot, let alone 11.

 

WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?

 

Clarence St. - between Dalhousie and....Cumberland I guess...you should check it out you guys, you're not 10 foot tall or bullet proof.

[suburb1 153]

Dummpy good analysis using the WHO figures. For an in Canada perspective with more recent data see the links below:

 

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/std-mts/stidata97-06/chlamydia-eng.php

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/std-mts/stidata97-06/gonorrhea-eng.php

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/std-mts/stidata97-06/syphilis-eng.php

 

HIV reported cases to public health agency

Public Health Agency of Canada. HIV and AIDS in Canada. Selected Surveillance Tables to June 30, 2007

Full reportat

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/aids-sida/publication/survreport/pdf/tables0607.pdf

 

Link below is a excellent read for a good overview of the Canadian HIV landscape.

Estimates of HIV prevalence and incidence in Canada, 2005

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/publicat/ccdr-rmtc/06vol32/dr3215ea.html

"...Approximately 58,000 Canadians were estimated to be living with HIV infection. This number will likely increase as new infections continue and survival improves due to new treatments, which will mean increased future care requirements. An estimated 2,300 to 4,500 new infections occurred in Canada in 2005, slightly higher than was estimated for 2002. However, the increase cannot be stated with certainty due to the level of precision associated with the estimates; a firmer conclusion is that overall incidence is not decreasing."

'Abstaining' Teens Still Get STDs

 

Study Finds Those Who Pledge Virginity Less Likely To Use Condoms

Teens who pledge to remain virgins until marriage have the same rates of sexually transmitted diseases as those who don't pledge abstinence, according to a study that examined the sex lives of 12,000 adolescents.

 

Those who make a public pledge to abstain until marriage delay sex, have fewer sex partners and get married earlier, according to the data, gathered from adolescents ages 12 to 18 who were questioned again six years later. But the two groups' STD rates were statistically similar.

 

The problem, the study found, is that those virginity "pledgers" are much less likely to use condoms.

 

Complete story at

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/03/09/health/main604877.shtml

 

 

 

[mod 135640]

Hmm, pledging to stay a virgin to teenage women probably means not sex in the front door. Oral and Anal sex may still be ok with many. I am sure we all know a few girls from our highschool days that were like this.

[d*mm*y 887]

Ah yes my very dearest GF one of the best ever, only did Greek cause she did not want to lose her virginity!

 

Hmm, pledging to stay a virgin to teenage women probably means not sex in the front door. Oral and Anal sex may still be ok with many. I am sure we all know a few girls from our highschool days that were like this.

[d*mm*y 887]

Hey Suburb,

Those are some great stats you have found, it is interesting to see the number of same sex and intervenes drug users to the heterosexual populations, also interesting to see the number of infections from people visiting hi risk countries or there citizens visiting Canada.

 

If only you could guarantee that the person you were with had never been a same sex partner or an IDU or with a person from a person hi-risk country, of course if someone they were with was with someone well you get the picture.

 

Anything out there on herpes? that one is transferred with kissing inst it? (and other oral activities I have always been told?)

[MissAva 376]

Hey Suburb,

Those are some great stats you have found, it is interesting to see the number of same sex and intervenes drug users to the heterosexual populations, also interesting to see the number of infections from people visiting hi risk countries or there citizens visiting Canada.

 

If only you could guarantee that the person you were with had never been a same sex partner or an IDU or with a person from a person hi-risk country, of course if someone they were with was with someone well you get the picture.

 

Anything out there on herpes? that one is transferred with kissing inst it? (and other oral activities I have always been told?)

 

 

Here is a link: http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hl-vs/iyh-vsv/diseases-maladies/herpes-eng.php

 

"Genital herpes can be transmitted during vaginal, anal or oral sex even if the infected person has no open sores or any other symptoms of infection."

 

Just so you know that its usually extremely hard to test for herpes unless you are having an outbreak at the time of testing. This is because it has a lot of the same strands from cold sores, and if you are prone to cold sores then its hard to distinguish.... unless you have a break out!

 

Now this next link is about the US, but needs to be taken serious since we are just next door, and most likely our numbers are the same!

http://www.globalherbalsupplies.com/herpes/stats.html

 

Infection is more common in women (approximately one out of four women) than in men (almost one out of five). Male-to-female transmission is more efficient than female-to-male transmission.

One in five Americans have genital herpes (yet at least 80 percent of those with herpes are unaware they have it).

About 80 percent of American adults have oral herpes (cold sores).

An estimated 25 percent of American adults have genital herpes.

 

 

Overall, I think this topic is not to be taken lightly. For those 11 men who honestly voted that they have never been checked, NEED TO. You are putting the community and yourself at risk.

[d*mm*y 887]

Interesting statistics on herpes however I am not too sure about the type of populations tested as the results also mention that 48% of Black males have herpes and 17% of white males, it would be interesting to see were the samples came from. It is also good to know that with no signs of the disease I probably don't have it, unlike something like Chlamydia, were it just sits there and starts to fester far worse things.

 

http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/public/pub/std/herpes.html

 

There is no question that STI/STD's are no joke and that is why condoms for full sex and anal are a no brainier, however I remember years ago the government (early 80's) warning about herpes from kissing I am glad to see that they have determined that this is indeed a very low risk. I also do believe that with the lack of dental dams being used in this in town and the supposed hi rate of herpes that oral is probably safe, I know that I have not even had as much as a cold sore let alone any rashing or blistering in the genital regions, and after 25 years you would figure if this was the way it was transmited and at 25% of the propulations if oral was a transmiter would not every SP have it (Accept the ones useing dental dams and CBJ or obstaining from oral sex) well why don't I? I think the simple truth is that oral sex has a very very low if nill transfer rate, I have been emailing and calling health organization and statistics Canada and physicsians etc... asking for a defenitive study that show evidence that oral sex alone is somewhat effective in transmiting STI/STD, many studies show a small percentage and then go on to say that they can't realy trust that the sample population was sure that it was from oral.

 

No worreis about me being stupid enough to not wrap that rascle for vaginal or anal intercourse, however I am going to keep enjoying my DATY and DATO with out a dental dame until someone can actualy show me a case of someone who contracted an STD/STI from oral sex, and at the same time I am not affriad if the lady is willing to perform BBBJ that she is a dirty girl because of it.

 

I might add that if I were to get an STD/STI I would be torn limb to limb in divorce court!! So this is a subject of great importance to me.

[suburb1 153]

I might add that if I were to get an STD/STI I would be torn limb to limb in divorce court!! So this is a subject of great importance to me.

 

Hello Ava and Dummpy.

With regards to Ava's posting> Lets consider the US situation, it is not as comparable to Canada, given the demographics, the use of drugs and the much larger gay and bisexual community.

The US Centers of Disease Control data, show a disproportional HIV and STDs infection rate in the african american population compared with Caucasians and asians. Due to historical and continuing social inequities such as education, access to health care and information, depressed economics and a certain social butterfly subculture. So even though they are our neighbours, the statistics do not lend themselves to direct application to Canada. There is a wrinkle to this, immigration from HIV endemic areas to Canada of individuals who show no symptoms and do not test positive for HIV, though they many years later after their arrival develop symptoms, may unknowingly infect partners. Also, in Canada some of the highest rates of infection is in our indigenous northern populations (HC data).

Therefore while the US trends are interesting and useful for my fellow Cerbites to pay attention to, if they play in the US, the Canadian data is more reliable in shaping our attitude when playing domestically.

Dummpy, my man, the information used to indicate a link between oral play and STDs, with the exception of Herpes Simplex II, is based on a statistical association of what people recall as the type of sexual play they had been involved in over the weeks before the symptoms appeared.

This type of -epidemiological data- allows the identification of association not cause and effect. So the learned Ladies and Gents (WHO, HC, CDC) will not be able to deliver the smoking gun of absolute proof. What they will be able to indicate, and do say, is that it is likely that there is a probability greater than zero, that indulgence in oral sex with multiple partners may result in transmission of an STD etc. The risk is only zero if you give it up. :>).

oh those wasted years of postgrad education finally comes in handy lol

[d*mm*y 887]

Ah ha with 48% of black Americans having herpes, and comfortable clothes one of the recommendations, now I know why rappers were pants 10 sizes too large and around there knees and let there cotton boxer blow in the breeze!!

[d*mm*y 887]

Here is a lengthy conclusion to my last week of thought on this subject, with a case study for good measure. I am surprised by the lack of contributions to this thread and happy with the number of votes and PM’s. I do understand people’s reluctance to verbalize information and feelings on this subject as it is very touchy in our community. I do know that over the last week I have been ostracized and put down for my opinions and been the brunt of some peoples anger, so I can understand the position on this one, rule #1 don’t talk about fight club (and some of you have relayed stories to me about similar experiences I feel for you guys too) As much as we would like to adopt the Beavers mentality of Sharing, Sharing, Sharing it is a very tough walk. The irony is that we live and breath the Beavers mantra even if we do it in silence!

I have been in the hobby since 1983 when I picked up my first street walker at Dalhousie and Murray, she had long blond hair white vinyl jacket and short, short, skirt and those massive CFM boots in white of course. She was probably 5’5” (with the boots!) and maybe 100 pounds, I was so nervous I took off down the street the wrong direction!! She just thought I was a wild guy so I worked with it.

 

I guess it is fair to say that I have been hooked ever since August of 1983 that adds up to 25 years. In that time I have had service from way too many ladies to ever count plus so many non paid conquests etc… If you live for sex you have a knack for getting it. When I look at this history I do believe that for the most part the sex was covered and oral not, and yet after 25 years no infections or disease? Also worth pointing out this community is not very monogamous, so I would have been exposed to way more that I actually ever saw.

Beyond this point I see at lease 6 ladies that have been in business for many years on E-C etc… that offer BBBJ and some even advertise BBBJTC/CIM and several that don’t advertise it offer it, and yet these ladies some of them in business now for 20+ years are still alive to tell and don’t seem to be any less the wiser for it? (I can tell you that if I was getting repeated issues from something as a service provider I would stop that activity immediately!). Now you cannot simply say that the ladies can pick the right ones, because there is too much cross contamination, witch brings me to my next point.

 

If 20-30% of us still troll the streets, and also visit mid priced ladies and some of us visit mid priced ladies and hi end ladies than all the infections and diseases would be already be spread, from the street right up to the penthouse condo. As soon as we see more than one lady a year we start to be big contributors to the cycle, at this point I think the vast majority of ladies are doing BBBJ vs CBJ, most of the popular agency girls are and several of the long time ladies are and then the rest area mix. Also most of the ladies are in business and see several at least 10 clients a week, so If I see a lady on Tuesday and she has seen 40 clients in the last month and gives me a BBBJ, than effectively I am exposed to all the things that those 40 guys have seen and done. Then if on Thursday I see a lady and we perform unprotected oral sex than she is getting the 40 that I got on Tuesday and I am getting the 40 she saw and lets say that all 40 had seen someone else in the last month, so the 40 has seen 40 and been exposed exponentially to 1600, and the 2nd lady seeing me is then at 3200. In all of this all of it BBBJ in a thirty day period times 12 months a year times 25 years that would be nearly 39,000 people of course I am Dummpy and I don't see 2 ladies a month so it is probably more like 130,000, and I know that my simple math is missing some other factors that would catapult this number to over a million. I am under the impression that if oral sex were an effective means to transfer STD/STI that I would have caught something by now? So the fact that I have recently finished my 64th STD/STI screening and tested negative proves that oral acts do not transfer STD/STI’s to me. All that is left to determine is whether I am super man or oral sex is just not that affective at transferring STD/STI. I am OK with either conclusion that you draw, however modesty forces me to choose the later. Now any scientist or brainiacs (or regular dummies like me) out there want to help me find the error in my conclusions? It’s important we need to make sure that all the cards are on the table and no stone is unturned.

 

BTW a disproportionate amount of anti sex STD/STI stuff is on the web from the Pentecostal and Baptist churches in the US, you want a good laugh read that crap!!