Occupy Cerb

[JuliasUndies 7288]

It is day 55 of occupy Wallstreet. The world has come together in a plight against the 1%. Among many of the issues being protested some stand out more than others such as healthy food, clean water, health care, workers rights, better pay ect..

When protests began I was excited to see so many people come together for a good cause, and had a glimmer of hope.

Now, not so much. I don't want to accept it, but this is the world we live in and I don't see any changes coming in the future. The news is telling us of stories of protesters being beaten, shot at and gassed. You tube is filled with videos, some inspiring and some I wonder how anyone is getting away with treating protesters this way while being caught on camera.

It's all too much for me. It's all for nothing. The sad part to me is that to make change, this world has a twisted way to do that and if you want to make history, then to war it is. War? Highly unlikely. We can't all give up our jobs and mortgages, protest, eat off the land and forgo all credit cards, loans and investments. We are dependent off of these almost like a bare essential to live. But..if we all did, all 99% of us started a movement, a spiritual journey let's say..all dance around naked planting potatoes and trading amongst the people..Can't picture that either.

So, what can be done? What do you think? Does it matter to you? Would you be willing to make changes, what kind?

What do you think about all of this?

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lub42ogI201r25y9yo1_500.jpg

[mrrnice2 157005]

Julia. Your words are on target and I could, as could many of us, cite example after example of multitudinous injustices and inequities.

 

It is clear to me that countries that have their own borders and governments, including even Canada, the United States, China and Germany, are not the power brokers. It is in fact the countries that have no borders, that have no elected officials, that have no desire for 'government BY and FOR the people', that give individual and obscene profits to their CEO's, that has the world in its present state. The multinationals are the root cause.

 

Whether I be correct in that or not is irrelevant because you are correct in saying, "But this is the world we live in."

 

Neither you nor I, nor merely thousands of well intentioned protesters can change that world. What you can do, and I can do, and each of us as lone individuals can do, is only what we can do at the moment, at the time.

 

One small step at a time, a kindness, an act of support, a helping hand, a vote of confidence, a shoulder to cry on, be a voice in the wilderness, step outside of our social boundaries, recognize the power of one.

 

If you did this, if I did this, then there are two steps forward. Ghandi and King changed their worlds. My sense of idealism and optimism remain.

[Guest ma***sf***x]

Capitalism isn't working plain and simple but I started questioning and hating capitalism before it was mainstream.

 

Sadly nothing is going to change the government is never going to listen to us Nato will always invade other nations I support the movement 100% I even went to Occupy protest in my city Karl Marx warned us about this and did we listen?

[cometman 35115]

The biggest problem with this generation is the wanting "it" right now. It's way too easy to borrow money and live beyond our means, so far too many people do. Pay cash, pay down loans, cut up the credit and debit cards, turn off the cell phones, etc. We've forgotten how to live simply. The 1 %'ers depend on us to not be able to resist all that glitters.

[scribbles 6031]

I'll be the voice of dissent and say I am not in favour of these protests.

 

Nope, I'm not one of the so-called 1%. I'm far from rich. I have debt, but not an obscene amount. I'm not a fan of greed. I don't think war is a solution to anything.

 

But...

 

We live in Canada, not the US. There are key distinctions to be made there. We have better regulation and government oversight of things like the banking industry. We have less influence in our politics from lobby groups, simply because our democracy works differently. As opposed to the Americans, a Canadian voter knows that *their* vote counts. In the US, the popular vote does not elect a president, the electoral college does.

 

What can the "99%" do in Canada?

Get informed and vote.

 

I'm sickened by the willful ignorance and apathy Canadians show towards their own politics. How many vote? How many of those who do actually have a clue about the issues, or ask enough questions to get beyond the speaking points and sound bites? A dwindling number of both. And yet the mighty 99% will chant and stomp and cry out about injustice in droves. Where were you when Harper was running towards a majority government?

 

*That's* how you exercise your power to influence change. And, this is something that most of the other nations that host Occupy-whatever protests don't have.

 

The problem with the protests is they are a populist, disjointed and confusing mess. It's an example of why anarchy doesn't work; ultimately, in every group you need a leader and a focus. From what I've seen, the protests are failing because they lack that focus. In trying to represent everyone and everything, nobody has a clue what they are asking for. The protests would have been more effective if they had chosen a focus and made their goal a public education campaign around that focus.

Knowledge is power.

 

And, don't be under the illusion that the protests are blameless, innocent and peaceful gatherings of responsible activists. There has been enough drug use, violence, drunkenness and disorder to warrant a little attention from law enforcement. It may have been caused by a small faction, but that's the other problem with protests; they always draw the wrong element along with the right.

 

Sent from my HTC EVO 3D X515a using Tapatalk

[mrgreen760 37785]

Fabulous thread and it should lead to some spirited debates and differing points of view. Looking forward to it.

 

No system is perfect and it wasn't that long ago that a great many in world celebrated the tearing down of the Berlin wall as the symbolic of the end "communism" as we knew it. I used " " around the world communism as it certainly wasn't the system of Karl Marx. It's not only CEO's of multinationals that can be perceived as greedy. One can take a ride through most suburbs in most NA cities and see how greed or want has ballooned to unsustainable and unrealistic proportions. 2-3,000 and more sq foot houses with 2-3 car garages and all of them filled to max with newest and best disposable items. On one hand I could rage against untold consumerism but I don't. Most households require two incomes to feed the need.. I just chose to live my life differently. I live in an 865 sq foot house which is smaller than most apartments. No kids. We grow food that sustains us for 5 or so months of the year. There is one car, it is a Lexus but it's a 1997 Lexus purchased when it was 8 years old. The household income is well in excess of 6 figures and I could easily afford to live that life style. I chose not to simply because I don't want to be bound to something I don't want to do.

 

To me it comes down to personal choices and personal responsibility.

 

I see no point in the occupy protests. If they are really serious...they'd go occupy the first nations communities that continue not to have access to potable water.

 

Peace

MG

[Maverick 2873]

If you try to stop a snowball from rolling down a hill 5 seconds after it is let go, it is easy. If you try to stop a snowball from rollin down a hill an hour after it is let go, it is impossible. That's the situation here. Politics, economics, societal expectations, western culture, etc. has all developed to such a point that it is impossible to tweak something here or tweak something there to create a significantly better version of today's society.

[mrrnice2 157005]

If you try to stop a snowball from rolling down a hill 5 seconds after it is let go, it is easy. If you try to stop a snowball from rollin down a hill an hour after it is let go, it is impossible. That's the situation here. Politics, economics, societal expectations, western culture, etc. has all developed to such a point that it is impossible to tweak something here or tweak something there to create a significantly better version of today's society.

 

 

The snowball analogy is perfect, however how does one do more than tweak? Are we looking for our own version of the Arab Spring, North American style? I think not, and even if so, what has actually changed in Egypt, or will change in Libya?

Scribbles is correct in stating that the current protests HAVE been hurt by the incidents of violence and open drug use and the criminal elements that have infiltrated.

Voter apathy of course plays a role, and we are saddled with the political parties that a minority of Canadians put into power with majority governments, but again I will reiterate that individual governments are as powerless as individual Canadians - it is the multinational greed that is a root core. Minimum wages to Canadians, and then moving the jobs to third world countries where the minimum wages become less again, all while arguing of the opportunities that they provide. Environmental regulations are non-existent or totally disregarded. I could go on and on here.

Mrgreen with his statement of each of us making good individual choices and assuming personal responsibility is the starting point, however in our society as it exists now, how available are his choices to the masses?

We must be realistic and practical and I stand by what I wrote in post # 2, one small individual step at a time.

[April Dawn 12207]

The whole Occupyregina movement is a joke. In the beginning I had been part of the planning stages but had to bow out because it was basically a bunch of people who couldn't stop arguing amongst eachother and didn't have jobs. If I would have said to my boss hey I'm taking an indefinite amount of time of to go camping in the park he would have said well have fun with that don't worry about ever coming back.

How about occupy a job? My bank doesn't take good intentions as payment

on loans.

Every hipster kid I see out there wearing

Dolce and Gabbana black framed glasses, in tents mommy and daddy bought, using government provided wi fi on their ipads literally makes me so mad I could

Probably get away with justifiable homicide.

 

Its a good idea, there should have been a better cohesive plan or ideology behind it... But what it is now is basically a joke. All I can comment on is what is going on in regina, I don't know what the movement is like in other places, who knows maybe it will do some good.

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[loopie 15358]

Mr. Green is right, giant corporations and moneylenders/creditors have power because we give it to them by consuming their goods/services and by working for them.

 

I think lots of problems can be fixed or averted through government laws/regulations. But we need to elect leaders who will implement these laws and regulations.

 

These protests don't really have much weight because they quickly become such a mixed bag of random causes or lack thereof. The informed people in these protests need to get in the system. They need to run for office. Simply acting like hobos isn't going to change anything, it just makes them even easier to discredit and ignore.

[Kubrickfan 12836]

I think the whole occupy movement is completely goofy. No coherent message and no clue about economics.

 

As long as its not gained by criminal activity, I have no issue whatsoever with people trying to make as much money as they can. Capitalism isn't perfect, but it's brought incredible weath and opportunity to most of the world, not to mention that it is a whole heckuva lot better than any of the alternatives.

[MightyPen 67414]

A well-regulated, equal-opportunity free market is a great economic model and can be an effective engine for creating wealth. Problem is, that's not what we have. Money is power, and the powerful have rigged the game to favour those who are already wealthy. They should in theory have been held in check by politicians, but all the politicians are bought and paid for. We can at least be thankful we're in Canada, where the problem is less acute than elsewhere.

 

The Occupy X protests won't change this directly, but they DO serve as a sign that many, many people are deeply upset with the obscene concentration of wealth this rigged game has produced. And they just might prompt change in politics. The NDP and Greens, who seemed dubious and fringe before, might start to look more appealing if they can plug into this mood. To forestall this, even the traditional parties might start to make frantic concessions to real, popular will.

 

For those complaining about a lack of organization and message: the protests themselves are anarchic on purpose. They're protesting a rigged power structure, and so part of the point is not to create yet another traditional power structure which can then be rigged. It's messy, but it's *people*. And of course that prompts derision at first: we're THAT used to hierarchies that we don't know what to make of something that's not organized that way.

 

I personally think that the protests are fantastic: they're an expression of a widespread and extreme discontent. It's just the kind of thing a free society is supposed to produce.

[VedaSloan 119179]

How about the fact that these protests are predicated on "occupying" land that is already occupied--for example, in Ottawa, living on unceded Algonquin territory. Or if you want the American example, Manhattan is Lenape land.

[Ashley Ann 75247]

 

I love this!

[GrenadeMan 280]

Fabulous post Julia. I have watched the documentary Inside Job. And I highly recommend everybody to watch that documentary.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inside_Job_(film)

 

It won the Oscar for the best documentary in 2010.

 

It talks about what led to the financial meltdown, and about the people and organizations that led to it. It also talks about who is paying the price for it, and about the people who have benifitted from it. A must see.

 

Occupy CERB!!!

[Kubrickfan 12836]

I tend to agree with a lot of points raised in the movie ( I haven't seen it but I have seen numerous summaries). But here's the thing ... Any time the government subsidizes bad economic behavior ... be it a wall street bailout or a mortgage or other subsidy to someone who couldn't get it in the open market, you are going to get more of that bad behavior and a re-occurrence of the problem. and i dont agree things are rigged ... Exactly what is rigged? The only systems that are potentially rigged are the systems sponsored by governments where political power can be used to influence the result.

 

And back to Occupy ...., I mean no disrespect, but to me it's just a bunch of whiners who can't even enunciate what they want, what they want "fixed," and why what they want will "fix" the "problem.". I agree with April ... Go occupy a job! (smile)

[loopie 15358]

I saw INSIDE JOB and it is an excellent documentary that explains the recent economic crisis in a way that I think most viewers can understand. It explains some pretty big problems, mainly in USA, where moneylenders are working against their own clients, which is unethical and as we've recently seen, highly destructive.

[bewlayb 7480]

For those complaining about a lack of organization and message: the protests themselves are anarchic on purpose. They're protesting a rigged power structure, and so part of the point is not to create yet another traditional power structure which can then be rigged. It's messy, but it's *people*. And of course that prompts derision at first: we're THAT used to hierarchies that we don't know what to make of something that's not organized that way.

 

Anarchy by design? I doubt that the Occupy movement organizers were being that clever. True, they may be responsible for the lack of organization and message, but mostly because of the skills they lack, rather than the smarts they possess. That, and the fact the Occupy congregation is a collection of unlike-minded individuals unable to rally around a unifying common goal. By contrast, the highly structured organizations of the rich and powerful are precisely that way because they are highly motivated to organize themselves towards a common goal... that is, to make lots of money!

 

The Occupy movement is demonstrating they are the antithesis of capitalist power, but not in the way they likely intended.

[Phaedrus 209521]

A bit off-topic... but this is the best explanation of the current financial crisis I've seen. Of course, it was written well before the event....

 

[Old Dog 179138]

well... if it means anything, when I am on CERB, I am usually pitching a tent....

[JuliasUndies 7288]

Thank you so much for all these great responses, we really are so lucky to have each other, why, the glow of my screen from this friendly nation is keeping me warm and if only I had castle to keep my toes warm for me right now.

Anyhoo, I admire this guy on youtube Boogie2988 and his animated gathered thoughts on the whole issue.

[MightyPen 67414]

Anarchy by design? I doubt that the Occupy movement organizers were being that clever.

Then you'd be mistaken. See a description of the anarchic organization here, for example:

 

LINK to New York Observer

 

Some of these people are very bright indeed; you do yourself a disservice to underestimate or dismiss them. The protestors aren't a unified group with a single agenda, but I think all would agree that "there are major problems with the current economic system". And they'd be right.

 

Re. organizing to make lots of money: people organize for lots of things besides this. To raise a family, for example, or build a community. When people organize to make money to the exclusion of our collective social obligations, you get the madness of Wall Street and its near-takedown of our society just three years ago. Money-making unchecked moves swiftly from constructive to psychotic.

 

I like the Occupy folks and I respect what they're doing, messy as it is. The story's not over yet, and I'll be watching with interest. And even if I don't participate, it could influence my hopes for the society around me, and how I vote in the next election.

[bewlayb 7480]

Actually I have no bone to pick with the original Occupy Wall Street initiative. To the contrary, I share some of their concerns regarding corporate greed, government corruption, and unfair tax privileges to the very rich. It's the copy cat "movements" that I take issue with... here in Ottawa and elsewhere in Canada. These have devolved to nothing more than opportunities for groups of idle individuals to squat in public spaces and misbehave. I find absolutely nothing inspiring about that.

[Guest J****I***s******le]

Is Wall Street going to wake up and say..."Oh gee, there are a bunch of hobos in the park and they are angry...I guess I don't want to be rich anymore"? Not all of these people are hobos...I know...but they all look like hobos...and the reports in the news of what's going on in their campsites makes them sound like hobos...Besides does wallstreet even own our public parks? Will this protest lead to the change they seek in any way? Don't think so. The only way to really get into the minds of these large companies is to get into their wallets!!! On a street level one might think it would be more effective to occupy their phone lines, their sales teams...buy stuff and return it all day long...I dunno. Yelling and drinking illegally in a public park doesn't really seem conducive to influence change in this case.

[MightyPen 67414]

The people who work on Wall Street aren't their target audience; the idea is to signal the population as a whole that "something is very wrong with this country". Wall Street is just a symbolic location. If things change, it's because the population will become aware and active. (I was going to say "aroused" and then thought about where I was posting! :) )

 

Any time people are agitated enough to give up their comfort and occupy public spaces on this scale, there's a serious social issue at hand. The political class should be taking this expression of public discontent seriously. That's the way change could conceivably happen. But just conceivably. We'll see.