Sales tactic or not?

[buggernot 588]

I thought that this might be good conversation fodder to see how naive I may or may not be. I've had a particular SP over several times and heard a lot of the usual 'praises' about my personality, sexual prowess and overall likability. No matter which SP it is, I always take these comments with the requisite grain of salt because the truth of the matter is, you are paying for a service and it does make for a more enjoyable experience to hear these things. How much is truth and what is embellished as part of the act I don't bother trying to distinguish. You take it for what it's worth because of the overall semantics of the situation. But for the most part, I do believe I'm good company and there are a few girls where it's obvious there's a real fun connection between us.

 

However, this one girl has made many suggestions about hanging out in the real world, and with her last visit she was talking about it more seriously, more excitedly. I don't have a problem with it, I really enjoy her company and even just shooting the shit over beer for a few hours would be great. But although I have her 'private' number, she is still impossible to get a hold of without going through the basic, insulated layers of booking an appointment.

 

So my question is this: Is this a ploy used sometimes to keep a guy hooked, make him feel like he's the special one out of all the others? There was enough about the whole situation that made it seem very genuine, but the dynamics of the biz makes it hard to really know for sure.

 

And to be honest, I'm personally of the opinion where if it's either truth or fib, it would cancel me out as a client whichever way. If it is true and I hang out with anyone as a friend, I don't think I can go from that to being a paying client at a later time. And if it's a lie, I don't care to be manipulated to that degree....it's crossing a line in my books. Telling me you had an orgasm if you didn't is one thing, but this is a little different.

 

I'm not upset about it or anything, but it has made me stop and ponder the rules of the game so to speak. Like I said, it has likely cost this SP me as a client one way or the other. Then again, who am I kidding....the blood will eventually leave my brain and return to my balls and I'll be calling up that number one more time ;)

[kih 458]

Great topic!

 

Sounds like you just underwent a GF experience. To me, If your not hearing what you mentioned from your SP ie: future plans etc your not receiving a full GF experience!

[YoungStud 468]

Actually, it's not only possible to be both a friend and a client but quite enjoyable as well. If you find someone you really like and trust and you both are honest with each other, this kind of relationship can be long-term.

 

Of course, a "friends with benefits" proposal could also be just another way of saying "sugar daddy sucker", so you have be careful to really trust your own best instincts and judgments and be clear about what's really going on.

 

And to be honest, I'm personally of the opinion where if it's either truth or fib, it would cancel me out as a client whichever way. If it is true and I hang out with anyone as a friend, I don't think I can go from that to being a paying client at a later time.

[d*mm*y 887]

If she is not answering the phone that it is probably a knew thing to her, she is trying to sort out the sugar daddy angle and has not got all the bugs worked out. I often have lunch or breakfast or diner with SP's that I see, it is a lot of fun to hang out with them socially, when the clothes hit the floor the clock starts that my rule. I will buy them gifts and be extra generous with tips etc... if they have been nice to me, it is on my terms. There are some ladies that offer social dates on the rate card and this does not interest me, although I think it is perfectly legitimate.

[Guest Ou**or**n]

If it is true and I hang out with anyone as a friend, I don't think I can go from that to being a paying client at a later time.

 

I don't see the big issue dealing with that part - the sex part is her job. I have many friends in many lines of business and if I use them within the context of their profession, I pay them. No different than paying a friend who is an electrician to help me wire a room in my basement.

[buggernot 588]

I don't see the big issue dealing with that part - the sex part is her job. I have many friends in many lines of business and if I use them within the context of their profession, I pay them. No different than paying a friend who is an electrician to help me wire a room in my basement.

 

That is a good point, never looked at it that way! But then again, when I have friends with skills, or they want my help, there's never been money exchanged. If it was a big job, definitely. But in my eyes, this is a more personal occupation and my friends are my friends...they get 100% of me if that's the case. So to differentiate between what time is friendship and what time is professional wouldn't seem natural to me personally.

 

I'll see what happens though...a year ago I never considered delving into this world and now I'm here. My perspective is bound to change some more as time goes by...

[Guest hot_lyxxx]

Not being Dr. Phil, I can't offer any professional perspective or advice in this matter. You are both adults and are individuals quite capable of making your own intelligent choices as to whether or not how to proceed. Do you have any internal alarm bells going off as a result of her desires to see you outside the realm of "business?" I'd weigh the facts and consider what may or may not happen down the road, e.g. the "big picture" as they say and any possible consequences that might ensue. It may be nothing more than what it appears to be in that she enjoys your company and would like to have you as a friend. There's no simple answer in my view as it's something that has to be considered on a case by case basis generally and in this instance through some open dialogue with her.

[cat 262460]

This is a great topic and one I think causes all kinds of hiccups. Accept the offer at face value, she just may feel a connection. I can only speak for myself in these matters because providers have very personal and individualized rules about spending time with guests outside of work. Mine are really simple...as long as the clothes stay on there is no money on the table for my time. No expecation of an envelope is there, it's just time to have a little bit of real life fun. The people I am closest to started out as guests and are now very dear friends whom I love, trust and cherish.

 

I prefer not to enter into the sugar daddy realm as it changes the dynamics so dramatically that the complications are simply not worth it. There is a false belief that the girl comes out on top and most of the time it isn't true. Occasionally there will be a provider who can run a truly blatant hustle and guests need to be aware of the possibility. But most of the time, the provider is a graduate of the Disney "happily ever after" program and really wants the white knight to ride to the rescue in the end.

 

Because we are pleasers by nature, it is easy for a "friend" to end up with all kinds of benefits that go unpaid for. It has happened to me and I have learned. I do have a couple of friends with benefits who I simply have a hard time keeping my hands off of and would never ask them for payment. Fortunately, they always make sure there is something left for the playtime. It isn't always cash, but it always balances out.

 

My only word of caution is that if you spend time with a provider outside of work and for some reason there ends up being playtime, leave her an envelope or something of equal value that you know she needs. Most people don't realize that it isn't the money, it's the acknowledgement of appreciation. Other that this, I think it is paramount to remember that providers are just people and enjoy spending time with people who know what they do so they don't have to keep up the walls and live a lie about what they are doing. Just enjoy and appreciate the moment for what it is. Two people enjoying each others company.

 

Catherine

[kih 458]

Well said Cat.

[Guest i***k***]

I love Cat's replies. Always candid and informative.

[kih 458]

I love Cat's replies. Always candid and informative.

 

I agree. She writes from the heart.

[brandi 231]

Even though you are paying her for a service her compliments are probably genuine, or at least mine are when I give them as I try to see something good in everyone. For example even if someone isn?t good looking they will have something attractive about them weather it be a great smile or friendly personality. Most men are nervous when visiting so compliments help to break the ice and I would think if I was saying anything phony a guy would see right threw it as my clients are pretty smart.

 

If she gave you her other number I would say she likes you. In 10 years I have only done this with 2 men. One was because he was working on my house and needed to call me a lot and I didn?t want to keep tying up my work number.

 

I have always kept my personal life and the business very separate, however, To be honest when I first came to the boards and saw the varied dynamic relationships I was fascinated, disgusted, intrigued and much more. This opened up possibilities in my mind. I did start to cross the line with a few customers and sometimes it worked out and sometimes it didn?t. I realized I couldn?t put a stereo type or rule on whether to do this or not as when dealing with people anything can happen and things are not always as simple or complex as the seem.

 

Looking back over the years I think I missed a lot of great opportunities because I wouldn?t mix out side of my work. Now because I am open to other possibilities I am having some interesting experiences as well as opportunities that I am glad I didn?t let pass by. Sometimes you just have to be able to read people while discerning and other times it is just luck. If she is after a sugar daddy that will show up soon enough and you can make decisions then.

 

At first it was hard for me to see clients out of the ?session time? I have gotten over that awkward stage and maybe your feelings will change in time too. All you can do is go with it, enjoy the journey and at anytime you want out you have that choice. Whether or not you stay with this sp over this who knows, no sp/hobbyist relationship is forever anyways and customers come and go for various reasons. I can?t say at this time I have regretted my experiences. I have no judgments I look at it as something that ?just is?.

 

I have received so many proposals and offers of various kinds to see gentlemen outside of the business so I can only assume other sp?s get the same, therefore I think if this sp has decided to give you her personal number then consider your very fortunate to be a select chosen one. It sounds like you are unsure of your feelings and what is supposed to be. I think everyone has their own rules that they abide by because everyone?s life is different.

 

I never crossed the boundary lines before because I am running a business here not a dating ad. And how would I know if a guy liked me for who I really am or was he just trying to get free sex. There is trust issues on both sides of the fence. My relationships with clients outside of the session time have been with married men in exchange for work around my house and this way I know there is no misunderstanding because they are going home to their wives. Lots of open communication is the key. You won?t have your answers until you speak to her more about this. I like to think that am open to whatever experiences might arise and trust that I will have the wisdom but at the same time realistic with expectations and outcomes.

[YoungStud 468]

Excellent post, Brandi! I think the key part of it is in what I've quoted below:

 

And how would I know if a guy liked me for who I really am or was he just trying to get free sex? There is trust issues on both sides of the fence.. . . [section deleted for brevity] . . . Lots of open communication is the key. You won?t have your answers until you speak to her more about this.

[buggernot 588]

Great posts from Cat and Brandi, very well said and enlightening on both counts.

 

Trust is a hard thing no matter what, but the extra variables in this pastime can make things that much trickier I suppose...

[Seymour 3970]

Bugger I think you went full circle on that one. It is nice to receive the compliments and be made to feel special (yes, we are all human), but ultimately what does one really want?

If one has rules for how one plays the game, sometimes things happen that makes you question them. Perhaps then, a good compromise is to be aware of your own boundaries and let time take it's course.

 

If it is difficult to reach her, keep in mind she is an individual with her life, responsibilities and schedules and likely has valid reasons for being unavailable. Perhaps again with time and trust, she will let you see the real person. Keep in mind it is very difficult for some people to open up, as they do not wish to leave them self vulnerable. Mentally, you have no idea what emotions she might be going through, she in fact may be seeking the same answers as you on some level. Time - give it time. But above all, do not take advantage of her friendship.

 

And to be honest, I'm personally of the opinion where if it's either truth or fib, it would cancel me out as a client whichever way. If it is true and I hang out with anyone as a friend, I don't think I can go from that to being a paying client at a later time. And if it's a lie, I don't care to be manipulated to that degree....it's crossing a line in my books. Telling me you had an orgasm if you didn't is one thing, but this is a little different.

I'm not upset about it or anything, but it has made me stop and ponder the rules of the game so to speak. Like I said, it has likely cost this SP me as a client one way or the other. Then again, who am I kidding....the blood will eventually leave my brain and return to my balls and I'll be calling up that number one more time ;)

[cat 262460]

Great posts from Cat and Brandi, very well said and enlightening on both counts.

 

Trust is a hard thing no matter what, but the extra variables in this pastime can make things that much trickier I suppose...

 

Trust. It is a word that is bantered around like ping pong balls when it comes to relationships. I look at it like this. Every day I get in my car and drive on two way streets travelling at 80 kms/hr and I trust each and every on coming car to stay on their side of the road. I have the same approach to all things in life, otherwise how could we step outside the door.

 

Life is a game meant to be played, not watched from the stands and there is always risk at hand. I find it worth the risk, the benefits far outweigh the negatives. When I reflect on my life, I never find myself saying "I wish I hadn't done...", it always is "I wish I had..."

 

Catherine

[capitalman 3861]

Buggerot, I hear ya!

 

SP's play with your head. Whether they intend to or not, it happens. I would like to say I REALLY appreciate everyones comments in here because it's helped me understand a few things that are going on in my life.

[cat 262460]

Buggerot, I hear ya!

 

SP's play with your head. Whether they intend to or not, it happens. I would like to say I REALLY appreciate everyones comments in here because it's helped me understand a few things that are going on in my life.

 

Important to remember that it's not usually intentional playing at hand, but a lack of genuine communication. Our own personal little voices then try to make sense of it and usually make a mess of it. I think there is often too much thinking involved when it comes to lifes relationships in general and we complicate things unnecessarily for ourselves. Just take life as it is every day and let life live itself thru you not vice versa...

 

Catherine

[YoungStud 468]

I agree. I'm involved in a relationship now in which, if I'd thought too much about it (age difference, education difference, some lifestyle differences and the fact that she's involved in a long-term relationship with someone else), I would never have gotten involved.

 

But now that I have, I must say this has been one of the best experiences of my life. I have found one of the few emotional and intellectual equals I've ever known whose values, from family to sex to work to play, are very closely aligned with mine. The aforementioned differences give us lots to talk about, but have proved not to be a barrier at all.

 

Even though I've been around on this planet for awhile and have had quite a variety of relationships in the past, I've also learned not only more about myself but as well how, in some ways, to be a more mature individual in the true sense of that phrase.

 

And I wouldn't have done any of it if I'd only followed my head instead of my heart.

 

 

Important to remember that it's not usually intentional playing at hand, but a lack of genuine communication. Our own personal little voices then try to make sense of it and usually make a mess of it. I think there is often too much thinking involved when it comes to lifes relationships in general and we complicate things unnecessarily for ourselves. Just take life as it is every day and let life live itself thru you not vice versa...

 

Catherine

[Kubrickfan 12836]

I think a lot of guys, either because they are young, or because they are older and yet have "inexperienced hearts," so to speak, can get mixed up and its possible for a lady to take advantage of that. I have definitely NOT seen it with the SPs I have seen, but ... and not to pull the thread off topic, but I have definitely seen it at the strip clubs among the regular visitors. Some of the more experienced dancers know how to take advantage of that, although I dont blame them for trying to earn a living, nor do I think the dancer goes in with any sort of evil intent. And the guy has to be responsible for his own behavior.

 

Where it gets complicated is when a few dances turn into more visits at $200 - $400 a night, and most of the pleasant conversation and smiles turn into discussion of all the trials and tribulations in the dancer's life. Those may all be real issues, but I respectfully assert that clients can, and do, get taken advantage of.

[cat 262460]

My thoughts were focused on providers. Dancers are an entirely different flower. When I had my service I wouldn't hire dancers because their vines have thorns and can entangle in ways unimaginable. I wouldn't venture to weigh in on the emotional games played in that garden...

 

Catherine

[Kubrickfan 12836]

Cat -- What a wonderful, very visual and very true analogy!

 

I realize everyone's comments were focused on SP's ... I dont mean to pull us off-topic, but strip clubs are certainly potentially very dangerous places if you are "lookin' for love," so to speak.

[alexgrenyait 2186]

this is such a great thread,i can"t help but add to it.I have been in this position more than once,it can be quite awkward.Through experiences that I have had I tend to run the other way when a client asks to see me out of this line of work as I always assume they are wanting free services.Unfortunately my gut instinct has never been wrong.Like Cat says a true gentleman will realize that once clothes come off it is proper to leave an envelope.Maybe I am unlucky but on the very very few instances I have seen the client out of work they were always expecting something else without payment..and that makes it so awkward.As much as I like to ***** i think the clincher for me would be if the client asked me out for fun and wanted nothing else but fun and conversation dropped me off at my door I would be more apt to go out with that person again.There is a fine line that for me cannot be crossed..its kind of like if you had a friend and he was a construction worker and everytime he wanted to hang out with you you had him build something!!I dont think he would hang around long!!

I will tell you a situation I am going through presently it is sooo awkward and I still have not dealt with it as I hate to hurt peoples feelings or have conversations like this.here goes...any advice would be appreciated!!

I have been seeing a gentleman for a year now..I see him every week.He is one of the few I give a half hour rate too.(a mistake)It is hard though to take away what you have offered though.

About a month ago I started to notice that in the envelope the amount would vary I got the impression he was leaving whatever was convenient for him which was starting to insult me.So I decided I would hold him off abit...I then recieved a business proposition from him which interested me it had nothing to do with escorting.So i agreed at that time he left me a 500 business check....i assumed that was for the new job.Alas he wanted more at the end of the talk.I did because I wasnt sure what this check was covering...now he has come to see me twice and not left anything after his business talks a half hour has turned into an hour...and 1 email a day has turned into 20!!

obviosly i need to deal with this and have a discussion with him which i dread..i will lose a client im sure through nothing i did wrong but being trusting and nice.This types of situations will make me run the other way.

I do this profession obviously for a living but I enjoy it very much also and have met some great people.But i detest being taken advantage of or put in this situation sooo like cat says be clear if you want to have fun publicly thats great but still treat your lady right and respect her.and remember what we do for a living.

alex xo

[YoungStud 468]

Have the discussion with him. If he leaves you as a client, sounds like you won't have lost that much anyway. If the chat smartens him up, also to your benefit.

 

Some people will get away with what you let them. Sounds like you've been more than generous and fair already. Also sounds like you're a terrific person and a very desirable companion who will have no trouble replacing this guy with a much better level of client.

 

Also, on your other point, if you are spending time socially with a client, if he's a decent guy, he should acknowledge that time with some kind of tangible appreciation. (Gifts, etc.) If you really don't want that for whatever reason, you can always tell him so. But it should be offered by him regardless. Yours to accept or not as you wish.

 

I will tell you a situation I am going through presently it is sooo awkward and I still have not dealt with it as I hate to hurt peoples feelings or have conversations like this.here goes...any advice would be appreciated!!

I have been seeing a gentleman for a year now..I see him every week.He is one of the few I give a half hour rate too.(a mistake)It is hard though to take away what you have offered though.

About a month ago I started to notice that in the envelope the amount would vary I got the impression he was leaving whatever was convenient for him which was starting to insult me.So I decided I would hold him off abit...I then recieved a business proposition from him which interested me it had nothing to do with escorting.So i agreed at that time he left me a 500 business check....i assumed that was for the new job.Alas he wanted more at the end of the talk.I did because I wasnt sure what this check was covering...now he has come to see me twice and not left anything after his business talks a half hour has turned into an hour...and 1 email a day has turned into 20!!

obviosly i need to deal with this and have a discussion with him which i dread..i will lose a client im sure through nothing i did wrong but being trusting and nice.This types of situations will make me run the other way.

I do this profession obviously for a living but I enjoy it very much also and have met some great people.But i detest being taken advantage of or put in this situation sooo like cat says be clear if you want to have fun publicly thats great but still treat your lady right and respect her.and remember what we do for a living.

alex xo

[Guest i***k***]

I think I would feel uncomfortable treating an outing with one of these ladies as anything other than a personal business arrangement. If the lady herself proposed something than that's fine but I wouldn't myself unless I was prepared to back it up with a donation.

 

I think personally I'd want a lady to tell me if I was doing something or acting in a way that made her feel uncomfortable so I could avoid doing it. I'm sure it's hard when you've seen a lady a lot. One should still make the effort to be professional and treat her with respect.