Warning to sps and agencies!! L.e is doing stings

[PKjessica (PK is now PKJas 103]

We caught one last night trying to book an outcall, the client was calling from the best western in the westend. Undercover in the parking lot and wanted the lady to meet him in the lobby. Always a bad move. Anyhow without giving away everything in the open, just be aware and VERY careful. I am sure someone got popped last night.

 

PM me for more info.. Again outcalls are no guarantee of safety for an agency. They can arrest the driver, and pressure the drivers or ladies to turn against an agency. Take care and be safe!!

[Nicole king 1149]

We caught one last night trying to book an outcall, the client was calling from the best western in the westend. Undercover in the parking lot and wanted the lady to meet him in the lobby. Always a bad move. Anyhow without giving away everything in the open, just be aware and VERY careful. I am sure someone got popped last night.

 

PM me for more info.. Again outcalls are no guarantee of safety for an agency. They can arrest the driver, and pressure the drivers or ladies to turn against an agency. Take care and be safe!!

 

 

I am interested in getting more info.. Please PM when you have time. I think that I should point out that just because a client wants to meet you in the lobby or the bar doesn't mean he is LE. I often have ladies meeting clients in the lobby or at a bar for a quick drink. As long as the lady doesn't discuss money or services in the open, there is not much they can do.

 

As for pressure, they can do that all they want. Its easy to lay a charge for anything but its hard to make it actually stick in court. You would be surprised at the amount of charges that get thrown out of court for all sorts of technicalities. As long as you run a safe and professional agency, you shouldn't have any worries from LE.

 

 

Thanks

 

 

Nicole King

[Rachelle Reigns 4828]

I am interested in getting more info.. Please PM when you have time. I think that I should point out that just because a client wants to meet you in the lobby or the bar doesn't mean he is LE. I often have ladies meeting clients in the lobby or at a bar for a quick drink. As long as the lady doesn't discuss money or services in the open, there is not much they can do.

 

As for pressure, they can do that all they want. Its easy to lay a charge for anything but its hard to make it actually stick in court. You would be surprised at the amount of charges that get thrown out of court for all sorts of technicalities. As long as you run a safe and professional agency, you shouldn't have any worries from LE.

 

 

Thanks

 

 

Nicole King

 

 

While I'm not currently running my service as an indie I'd be very interested in the info as well..So Jess if you dont mind sending that PM ti me as well. R

[PKjessica (PK is now PKJas 103]

This was a definite Sting, as the "client" was on the phone with the agency, while standing outside in the parking lot of the hotel talking into the window of an unmarked Cruiser.

 

Again, the reason why the client was outside of his room is obviously to trap the lady into saying something that could be used against her.

 

We are actually dealing with a situation or this sorts regarding a driver on the quebec side. 5000 in legal fees and the driver has had his car impounded since Febuary, and the situation has still not been relsoved. Professional agency or not, there will be many Stings like this one going on this fall as there was an article a month ago in the sun that talked about funding for police to go after "sex escorts".

 

Anyways, this was something I wished to share with Cerb community especially the Sps and agencies. I spoke with a couple of different agencies last evening, and one of them had recieved the same call same cell number just before we did.

 

I propose that any LE stings or info be posted up for the benefit of the Cerb community.

 

I am interested in getting more info.. Please PM when you have time. I think that I should point out that just because a client wants to meet you in the lobby or the bar doesn't mean he is LE. I often have ladies meeting clients in the lobby or at a bar for a quick drink. As long as the lady doesn't discuss money or services in the open, there is not much they can do.

 

As for pressure, they can do that all they want. Its easy to lay a charge for anything but its hard to make it actually stick in court. You would be surprised at the amount of charges that get thrown out of court for all sorts of technicalities. As long as you run a safe and professional agency, you shouldn't have any worries from LE.

 

 

Thanks

 

 

Nicole King

[Cowboy kenny 50799]

Wow, be careful ladies. Jess PM me if you get a chance.

[Kubrickfan 12836]

CK and ladies --

 

I am a bit confused as to what the "sting" is. If an appointment is made over the phone, was the "sting" element to get the ladies to talk business, so to speak, while in a public place (the parking lot)? I assume that would constitute "solicitation" since its in a public place, whereas an e-mail or phone conversation, or a conversation in a private would not? I thought that private conversations were perfectly legal, or at least not illegal.

 

Thanks and take care.

[Rachelle Reigns 4828]

CK and ladies --

 

I am a bit confused as to what the "sting" is. If an appointment is made over the phone, was the "sting" element to get the ladies to talk business, so to speak, while in a public place (the parking lot)? I assume that would constitute "solicitation" since its in a public place, whereas an e-mail or phone conversation, or a conversation in a private would not? I thought that private conversations were perfectly legal, or at least not illegal.

 

Thanks and take care.

 

 

The law as I understand it is it is against the law to talk about exchanging $ for sexual favours..So they need the girl to say "If you give me this..I'll give you that". Although I was not aware that it matters whether you are in the room or in public...maybe public is "solicitation" and in private its "communicating for the purpose"....Jess,. do I have this right? Would you pm the # to us......

[mod 135640]

CK and ladies --

 

I am a bit confused as to what the "sting" is. If an appointment is made over the phone, was the "sting" element to get the ladies to talk business, so to speak, while in a public place (the parking lot)? I assume that would constitute "solicitation" since its in a public place, whereas an e-mail or phone conversation, or a conversation in a private would not? I thought that private conversations were perfectly legal, or at least not illegal.

 

Thanks and take care.

 

Private discussion regarding sex for money is legal in Canada but if you do it in public you are breaking the law!

On public Streets, hotel lobby's, hotel bars, parking lots, hallway to the hotel room, etc... are all "Public Places" however the hotel room itself is NOT considered public (it is private).

 

So if a guy asks a escort about sex or costs of service in the bar or even using terms like DATY or BBBJ then the girl needs to say "I am sorry, I do not do stuff like that" and she should "High Tail" it out of the hotel or public place and not look back. If a guy who is not LE is stupid enough to do this he needs to be left high and dry too! This is a way for the police to entrap the ladies.

NOTE: If you discuss sex in public (even without mentioning prices) and then proceed to the private room and discuss money they can still charge you (and visa-versa -discuss money in public then in private discuss sex). Even by saying "I do not discuss those things in public" you can still be walking a fine line and could probably get charged but I am not 100% sure as that is just rumor. I know using terms like DATY and BBBJ etc... are just as bad as saying the actual sex terms or slang of any kind.

 

Why do they do this?

In some area's in Canada when they go after the independent ladies it's to try to convince them to quit the business. When they get caught the LE pressures the escort to go to "pro-school" for 3 days (Like social worker camp for prostitutes) to try to talk them into leaving the business and if the ladies agree to go to school they "Drop the charges". These schools are filled with street walkers who need to escape the drugs and pimps so I agree this is a positive thing but when the LE starts to target the legit escorts who are not junkies and are trying to work by the books they are really abusing the laws.

 

Now in this case they probably are not after the lady (but they need her to bring the agency down). In order to charge a agency they must get one or more of the ladies to "Turn" on the agency and testify against them. They do this by saying "we will drop the charges against you if you spill the beans". They must say that they work for the agency (Technacally the agency needs to work for the ladies) they need to say the agency know sex is being exchanged for money (this way the agency is both the employer and knowingly living off the avails of prostitution)... they also look for agencies who run the opperation like pimps (telling the ladies when they must work, how many calls they must do, drug sales are common in bad agencies, etc... etc...) if the agency is running above the boards (Just booking calls, letting the ladies choose when they work, firring anyone found doing drugs, etc... - the cops will find out fron the lady and in most cities once the know the agency is not doing bad things they pretty much leave them alone - but that is not true in all cities)

 

The solicitation law WAS intended to get street walkers off the streets, the LE BEND this law to go after legit escorts for the above reasons (Maybe more reasons exist but these are the only reasons I personally know of).

 

If the lady does take it to court her name is released to the press once the charge is made and in most cases a story is published and the real name of the lady is published (maybe not in cities like vancouver or Toronto where this is not big news but winnipeg or Ottawa where they can damage some ladies name by publisising this it sometimes happens (as that is enough to scare most of the ladies into never taking this to court) .. yet another way to pressure the ladies into not taking it to court.

 

If it goes to court it's usually thrown out... but then again the girl get's screwed cause of lawyer costs. (Another reason the ladies are pressured - it costs 1000's of dollars for a criminal lawyer even before you have your court date and the free legal council or defending yourself is not always the best choice) So many of the ladies would rather turn on the agencies and go to pro-school then to take it to court.

 

It's very upsetting - It's wrong and it should be illegal for them to bend the law and use scare tactics.

[cat 262460]

This was a definite Sting, as the "client" was on the phone with the agency, while standing outside in the parking lot of the hotel talking into the window of an unmarked Cruiser.

 

Again, the reason why the client was outside of his room is obviously to trap the lady into saying something that could be used against her.

 

We are actually dealing with a situation or this sorts regarding a driver on the quebec side. 5000 in legal fees and the driver has had his car impounded since Febuary, and the situation has still not been relsoved. Professional agency or not, there will be many Stings like this one going on this fall as there was an article a month ago in the sun that talked about funding for police to go after "sex escorts".

 

Anyways, this was something I wished to share with Cerb community especially the Sps and agencies. I spoke with a couple of different agencies last evening, and one of them had recieved the same call same cell number just before we did.

 

I propose that any LE stings or info be posted up for the benefit of the Cerb community.

 

I agree that sharing knowledge is important, but CERB isn't the medium to use. It needs to be done privately. Putting information out about LE will not bode well for any of us, it will simply make all on this board a target. They may only be after the poorly run agencies, but it is well within their authority to target any and all of us. They will not appreciate their movements being posted or discussed on a public form and I assure you they are on here and watch what is said by whom. If there are signs we are getting organized and monitoring their behavior publicly they will come after whoever is involved with it. It will be viewed as interference. It is like taking a stick to a hornets nest...

 

Catherine

[brandi 231]

It would be nice if we could get a lawyer on the board to discuss these things with; however, I realize the laws probably differ a bit from province to province.

[mod 135640]

The by-laws would be different from province to province (but the by-laws are not criminal - they are like a parking ticket). The criminal laws are "Criminal code of Canada" laws and are federal - These apply the same way across the country (However some area's police the laws differently as the laws can be interpreted very differently - you have to remember the police are not judges or even lawyers - they just pass the charges out and let the courts deal with it).

 

I agree we need to watch what is posted here (maybe the private SP ONLY area would have been a better place for this thread) but then again the law needs to know that with the help of the internet the ladies (and the public in general) are becoming more knowledgeable of the laws and they will not be able to push the ladies around as much as they could in the past. I am sure people outside of this world of ours come visit as well (curiosity) and I am sure a number of them walk away with a different outlook of prostitution.

 

Sites like this are helping to educate the public and to teach people that sex workers on the streets are different then escorts. I do hope that if the LE does visit this site that they take the time to really see what this world of ours is all about. If they could see how wonderful the people on this site are (Ladies and Hobbyists alike) I would hope they would realize that they are targeting the wrong people.

 

A lot bigger fish are out who need to be fried! - The sex slave industry for instance (Mostly Asian from what I see) and the pimps on the streets need to be dealt with way before they even consider harassing any escorts. They need to know that these three area's of the sex industry are VERY DIFFERENT - sure they all exchange sex for money but the difference is the escorts are doing this under free will where the sex slave industry and the pimps running the ladies on the streets have a very different agenda. They are not going to get rid of any of those problems by targeting the escorts here.

 

The Canadian law says it is legal to have sex for money if you do not solicit it in public, Ottawa is filled with street walkers so why on earth would they be trying to catch the escorts in hotel lobbies who are trying to follow the law? - Sounds like they have a bigger target in mind here (The Agencies) and maybe they got complaints and are following the complaints up (this happens from ladies who are fired at times and also from other agencies who are trying to cause problems - that happened in Niagara a few years ago when the agencies were fighting and got the police involved by calling the police on each other - year not to bright eh!)

 

I don't blame the LE for going after the agencies that appear to be corrupt as I would hope they would want to protect the escorts as they would any other human being but I could see why they would investigate a agency as history shows many are under minded and try to operate above the law.

 

The only way they can really investigate an agency is (1) send a undercover agent to work as an escort for the agency or (2) arrest a lady who works for the agency and scare her into giving them information by threatening to charge her. I really can not see any other reason for for them to waste time on the independent ladies and once they know the agency is doing things above the boards I would hope they move on. I would also suspect not many female undercover officers want to pose as a sex worker either so I can also see why they do the hotel lobby sting.

 

The hotel lobby sting is VERY common across Canada by the way... I would almost guess they have a consultant or some book on "how to sting a escort agency" as this tactic is used everywhere.

[babybambi 99]

We caught one last night trying to book an outcall, the client was calling from the best western in the westend. Undercover in the parking lot and wanted the lady to meet him in the lobby. Always a bad move. Anyhow without giving away everything in the open, just be aware and VERY careful. I am sure someone got popped last night.

 

PM me for more info.. Again outcalls are no guarantee of safety for an agency. They can arrest the driver, and pressure the drivers or ladies to turn against an agency. Take care and be safe!!

 

plz pm when you get a chance Pkkess like more info

thanks bambi

[kih 458]

It would be nice if we could get a lawyer on the board to discuss these things with; however, I realize the laws probably differ a bit from province to province.

 

Brandi,

 

It would be nice if a lawyer came forward with some pro bono advice. However, in the interim maybe this Canadian legal data base of jurisprudence will be very helpful to understand or obtain a grasp of the issues at hand.

 

http://www.canlii.org/en/

 

 

For instance go to the site and type in "prostitution" Much case law can be found on the subject and how courts applied the prevailing law.

[YoungStud 468]

We caught one last night trying to book an outcall, the client was calling from the best western in the westend. Undercover in the parking lot and wanted the lady to meet him in the lobby. Always a bad move. Anyhow without giving away everything in the open, just be aware and VERY careful. I am sure someone got popped last night.

 

PM me for more info.. Again outcalls are no guarantee of safety for an agency. They can arrest the driver, and pressure the drivers or ladies to turn against an agency. Take care and be safe!!

 

What can they arrest the driver for? What charge? And under what Act? Criminal Code, Highway Traffic, etc?

[Cowboy kenny 50799]

What can they arrest the driver for? What charge? And under what Act? Criminal Code, Highway Traffic, etc?

 

Living off the avails, pandering...

[p22*** 236]

I have a lawyer that you can contact, I see him regularly..Very nice guy...He advised me to only do incall from my house..

Cops care about public places because they are just that PUBIC...

Your home is private, out of site out of mind...

Cops target agency's because its there belief thats agency girls are... are usually on drugs ( disturbances, out of control behaviour, rube to hotel staff) Or the girls can be underage, or illegal in our country, Dash wrote a great post about a friend who falls into that situation. All of these make great reasons for officers to target agencies, ( no offence to PK)...

Its very hard to target a independant SP, that has a regular client base, is professional and keeps things quite...

I personally only advertise via cerb, so I can easliy background check...

 

My advice, ask for references ( have they seen other sp's), ask for number that you can call back ( cell, hotel room)...Do your home work..Never ask for money, thats common knowledge for everyone...Even newbies know that you should not have to ask...

 

I have walked out on a few outcalls, because they man was asking too many questions.

You both know why your there, so why do you need to clarify anything??? Answer you dont...

 

Be safe, and believe in your instincts...

[brandi 231]

 

I have walked out on a few outcalls, because they man was asking too many questions.

You both know why your there, so why do you need to clarify anything??? Answer you dont...

.

 

Yes, I recently have been aggravated many times and hung up the phone when I get people who call and say ?what is it exactly that you do?? I just say ?well honey you need to know that before you call.? I feel for the new people if they really don?t know how procedures go. Some questions lately have just been over the top.

 

I think they ask questions in person because they want to know what exactly you will do as each escort does things a bit differently example some you can daty , digits, kiss etc and some not. I feel this is reasonable as when I go to a health spa and spend 3 browns I want to know exactly what services I am getting. Sometimes it is very tricky to come up with the exact appropriate wording for every question. I totally get your dilemma.

[goleafsgo 100]

Offence in Relation to Prostitution:

 

213. (1) Every person who in a public place or in any place open to public view

(a) stops or attempts to stop any motor vehicle,

(b) impedes the free flow of pedestrian or vehicular traffic or ingress to or egress from premises adjacent to that place, or

(c) stops or attempts to stop any person or in any manner communicates or attempts to communicate with any person

for the purpose of engaging in prostitution or of obtaining the sexual services of a prostitute is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

 

(2) In this section, ?public place? includes any place to which the public have access as of right or by invitation, express or implied, and any motor vehicle located in a public place or in any place open to public view.

 

That's directly out of the criminal code.

 

Further, it is criminal to maintain a "?common bawdy-house?.

 

This is defined as: a place that is (a) kept or occupied, or (b) resorted to by one or more persons for the purpose of prostitution or the practice of acts of indecency;

 

The problem here (for SP's) could potentially be incall locations. If you commonly rent a room, this can technically be considered a bawdy house if it is the same location. Likewise with houses/apartments.

 

 

Personally, I think the best way around this is to spice up the locations a little. If you insist on incalls (and I can understand why many of you would feel the need to), vary the locations. Sticking with one room can be dangerous, and it's not like the costs will differ drastically from place to place (hopefully).

 

 

Anyways, just thought I'd help.

While I won't claim to be the resident lawyer, I have 1 year left of law school!

Funny how I'm already spending my hard earned money on SP's!

 

 

Keep up the good work ladies!

[Capital Hunter 18263]

I have a lawyer that you can contact, I see him regularly..Very nice guy...He advised me to only do incall from my house.....

 

This surprised me :???:. I only take outcalls (at my home) because I thought (based on what I have read on this board) that outcalls are the ones which are legal. But I am sure your lawyer knows more than I do.

[mod 135640]

Outcalls are legal - incalls are illegal but incalls with one lady working from that location are often tolerated in most cities (as long as no public complaints happen and no agency is involved).

 

As long as it's a private place (your home or your hotel room) it's legal.

 

Discussing sex in public is a NO NO so do not ask the lady to have a drink in the hotel bar and bring up anything related to the call, sex, money or her business (if you do expect her to leave). If you meet the lady in the hotel loby also be sure not to talk about sex until you get to the room and close the door.

 

Paige may have been advised to do incalls from her own place (ALONE) as the police usually leave these ladies alone but this is indeed illegal (Read goleafsgo post above - the line that says a common bawdy-house is defined as a place that is used by one or more persons for the purpose of prostitution) this is right out of the criminal code and you do not need to have a phD do read this and understand it.

 

I do hope she was told of the risks and was not lead to beleive that this is legal as it is not.... I could see why she would be advised to do this for her own safety and she is probably less likely to be charged for this if she is smart about it.

 

Rest assured ... If the police get complaints from her neighbors about high traffic, complaints of suspicion of drugs or prostitution or any disturbances then they will investigate her and probably charge her for keeping a common bawdy house.

 

From the recommendations here for Paige and her contributions here on cerb I would think she would be very safe. She seams very stable, clean and intellegent so she probably does not need to be too concerned with anything like this...

 

The police do not seam to actively seek out indie ladies working by themselves unless public complaints are received so I would hope the police know that incall locations where one or two ladies work together is statistically more safe then outcalls as the lady never knows what she is walking in to when doing a outcall... then again some would argue that a sexual predator would know where you live or work when you do incalls.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

Thanks for clarifications mod. It is crystal clear to me now as how the law stands on this issue. My strict policy of outcalls only will remain fully in effect after reading your post and thanks again.

[mod 135640]

Outcalls to hotels that YOU as the hobbiest rent are probably the safest for everyone from both a legal and personal safety standpoint but that ads a hefty additional cost to the call.

[Capital Hunter 18263]

When I was travelling to Montreal a couple of years ago, I used to check into a hotel that could cost between $100 to $150 for a night, but escorts in Montreal are in return on average about $100 less expensive than here in Ottawa. So they balanced each other out (actually when I used to check into a hotel in Montreal I called two or more for the night so it paid off).

 

However:

1 - I can't have the excellent party-like environment that I can have in my own apartment (large screen TV, King size bed, big sofa, soft music, full light and flashing lights, bottles of wine and relaxing home advantage environment) in a hotel room.

 

2 - When I checked out of hotel a few hours later (even though I did pay for the full day, the receptionist always asked me as why I want to check out early!!!).

 

3 - Small hotel room with little light and small bed is no comparison to my own apartment.

 

So far I have hosted over 50 escorts and countless number of private dancers at my place and with the exception of one single occasion, I have had no problem whatsoever. Mind you I am careful as who I am inviting (only established well reviewed SPs, agency SPs or dancers that I know for a long time).

 

As long as I know that outcalls at my home are legal (and thanks to mod I know that for sure now), I am quite comfortable with that.

[mod 135640]

I am glad you feel more comfortable but I should mention that you should not take my advise or any one here's advice on legal issues (I am no lawyer or judge nor to I claim to be an expert - I have read the laws but that also does not make me a expert) for legal reasons I need to state that these comments are just my personal opinion of how I personally interpreted the law in regards to these subjects...

 

Good news is the law in regards to prostitution (criminal code of canada) is fairly easy to read so I would suggest to anyone with concerns to speak to read it and ask a real lawyer these questions and not believe what someone on a anonymous discussion board tells you. Also remember that all lawyers are not experts in these matters either, lawyers give clients bad advise all the time! I would not go to a divorce lawyer for advise on a criminal code matter so choose your legal council wisely too. Make sure they have experiencing defending clients under this act.

[Akhenaton 221]

[quote=PrettyPaige22;29394they are just that PUBIC...

 

Nice freudian slip PP ;) (j/k)

 

sorry I could not resist