Does Anyone Believe In The Afterlife?

[drlove 37204]

For Christmas, I got my mom a book on near death experiences (she's really into that stuff). Myself, I'm on the fence as to whether or not such accounts hold any validity. There may be some truth to it, but I'm not really convinced. Has anyone here actually had a near death experience? If so, has it changed your behavior / view of the world at all?

[billybob 20128]

As to the question of afterlife I do not believe in that. Religion, afterlife I think there are lots of people want to believe you never really die, you go to heaven of some other magical life. If that gets you through the day then more power to you, it's not my cup of tea.

[roamingguy 300292]

I'm on the fence about this too. One part of me thinks this can't be it, life is a journey, death is part of this part of the journey, but the journey continues in another dimension, whether you want to call it heaven/hell, or something else

The other part of me says that the afterlife is a concept and carrot that organized religion uses to dangle to gain compliance to their doctrine. And for me, it is more important to live life for today, the here and now, because maybe this is it, we have but one life to live. And we should go through life being non judgemental and treating others as we would like to be treated

So short answer, I don't know

A quick philosophical rambling

RG

[drlove 37204]

As to the question of afterlife I do not believe in that. Religion, afterlife I think there are lots of people want to believe you never really die, you go to heaven of some other magical life. If that gets you through the day then more power to you, it's not my cup of tea.

 

I'm leaning toward your point of view. Part of me thinks that these accounts are simply fiction devised to sell books etc.. However, I was reading Nikki Sixx's "Heroin Diaries" and "The Dirt" where he describes his own "NDE" He certainly doesn't seem like the type that would put much stock into anything religious, but his story fits the generic NDE profile. He's publicly stated that he kept it to himself for many years out of fear of being ridiculed. I find it a bit odd, but food for thought nonetheless.

[Studio 110 by Sophia 150333]

Yes I do believe, but not sure if it as described or even conceived...

I do have a thought that says....." for all of the history, we have conceived, believed, agree, disagreed and fought war, must be all for some reason?" What are the chances though out history there is this constant question of something greater than us? I mean there has to be something there, for I have had many experiences that does point toward faith, I guess I will have to wait to see....or not see.

[drlove 37204]

I guess to a certain degree it doesn't matter one way or the other. That is, if there is something more after we die, great! If not, we'd probably never know it, since (presumably) we'd just black out and not be the wiser - I'm assuming it's akin to falling asleep without noticing, and then waking up a few hours later with no recollection of the lost time, except in this case we'd just stay unconscious.

[roamingguy 300292]

I'm leaning toward your point of view. Part of me thinks that these accounts are simply fiction devised to sell books etc.. However, I was reading Nikki Sixx's "Heroin Diaries" and "The Dirt" where he describes his own "NDE" He certainly doesn't seem like the type that would put much stock into anything religious, but his story fits the generic NDE profile. He's publicly stated that he kept it to himself for many years out of fear of being ridiculed. I find it a bit odd, but food for thought nonetheless.

 

Just to intersperse a thought here, but I recall watching a while back a tv show about near death experiences, but some of the reasons for the accounts of near death experiences can be attributed to a lack of oxygen to the brain

(ie it's more hallucination than a bona fide going to the afterlife) and judging from the book's title "Heroin Diaries" (which I haven't read btw) maybe the drug is influencing the assumption it's an afterlife experience

And not arguing, just another perspective

RG

[drlove 37204]

Just to intersperse a thought here, but I recall watching a while back a tv show about near death experiences, but some of the reasons for the accounts of near death experiences can be attributed to a lack of oxygen to the brain

(ie it's more hallucination than a bona fide going to the afterlife) and judging from the book's title "Heroin Diaries" (which I haven't read btw) maybe the drug is influencing the assumption it's an afterlife experience

And not arguing, just another perspective

RG

 

Very plausible, indeed.

[Surf_Nazis_Must_Die 8958]

Let me put it this way,

 

If there is an afterlife, and some higher cosmic power, when I die that power is going to have a SHITLOAD of explaining to do! ;)

 

That being said, I figure being dead will be the same as before I was alive. If that makes any sense...

[MightyPen 67414]

I'd love to believe in an afterlife and all the metaphysical reassurance that comes with it. But there's no good evidence at all to believe there is one. So I must conclude there isn't.

 

There are no reliable reports of near-death experiences that can't be explained by:

 

a) physiological changes to the brain as the body starts to fail;

b) our minds trying desperately to make sense of the subjective experience of a); and

c) the widespread cultural beliefs that the mind draws upon as it performs b).

 

The mind is a tricky thing, and our experience is highly subjective and unreliable every minute of every day. We continually live life as our brains interpret it, selectively and fallibly, rather than according to the objective facts. We're always trying to make sense and find meaning in the events around us, and string them into a sensible narrative. But the fact is, although the world is ordered, it's fundamentally meaningless. Human experience is meaning-based. The world itself is not.

 

If our day to day experience is that unreliable, imagine how unreliable the reports are of people who have been through a weird and traumatic experience like the brain itself starting to die.

 

On the one hand I'm saddened, because like everyone I have a deep desire for meaning and reassurance implied by an afterlife. But on the other hand I use my reluctant conviction that "this life is all we have" to keep trying to improve the life I'm living, without relying on the promise of another chance after I die.

 

Mostly, that takes the form of being good to the people around me, and treasuring the time I have with the other people on this planet. Statistics say I'm more than halfway through my journey, and I don't want to waste any of what's left with the excuse that things will be better next time.

[billybob 20128]

Just to add a little humor to the conversation, thought this was funny.

 

 

[MightyPen 67414]

Thanks! Ricky Gervais is awesome.

 

Actually, my favourite funny video on the subject is this:

 

[Aspen Wilde 31370]

All I know is this: I am made up of matter and energy that has been recycled countless times and that has travelled all across the universe to make up who I am today. When I die, the particles that make up my body will disperse, take on new forms, and serve other purposes, both for sentient beings and beings whose sentience we have not yet ascertained. Even as I live, the matter in my body is shifting, changing, cells are dying off and new cells are taking their place. My body never stays the same body- my mind, too, never stays the same mind. I often find myself pondering the significance of the notion of 'self'. Everything that I am is interdependent with everything else in my world- the food I eat, the ideas I encounter, the people who make up the society of which I am a part. Without any of these things, I would not be 'I'. So when it comes to death, the question of an afterlife is simply, 'does this consciousness of mine continue beyond the death of my physical body?' And where to? Will it encounter new context in order to create a new sense of self? (As I strongly doubt the notion of a fundamental self, or soul) My guess is no, but I'm open to the idea of being wrong. No matter what, I will find out. My preference, though, is that it would not. As much as death is frightening, I imagine that my small human perspective is too frustratingly narrow to be tolerable for an eternity. The law of conservation of mass is, I think, satisfying enough for me as a way of making sense of my own death. That I am and always have been a part of something much larger than myself, wholly natural and scientifically observable. Perhaps it lacks inherent meaning, but I find the existential creation of meaning to be an entertaining craft project on those lonely nights.

 

</armchairphilosopher>

[RubJunky 1954]

Now I know what I am about the say isn't for everyone so here I go. I have never nor has anyone seen a god, except for those Hollywood movies and what was written in the bubble Jesus was a regular dude in my opinion and our life as it stands today on this planet is simple, we are who we are an evolutionary product of life billions of years in the making. As humans we have become the leaders of this planet and we are doing a great job of fucking it all up and as our lives come to an end another life will take its place. Do what you can, do it right leave a legacy of your doing after all as you read this message you are traveling 64,000 miles per hour through space, no really!

[billybob 20128]

All I know is this: I am made up of matter and energy that has been recycled countless times and that has travelled all across the universe to make up who I am today.

</armchairphilosopher>

 

How do you know this?

[Aspen Wilde 31370]

How do you know this?

 

I can rephrase: I believe this, because this is what I have learned through my science education (in part publicly funded and in part through reading on my own time). I have never encountered compelling evidence to refute this belief, so it sticks with me. If where you're going with this is a question of what constitutes knowledge, I'd agree that it's a very compelling question, although somewhat tangential to this thread.

[MightyPen 67414]

How do you know this?

Certainly the matter part is true. The vast, vast majority of atoms more complicated than hydrogen were created at the center of stars. Forged in vast gravity-driven fusion furnaces, then distributed by stellar explosions, recycled in new stars, hurled out again in more vast clouds, until eventually by chance they were caught by gravity in the formation of our solar system. We're all made of that stuff.

 

The energy was largely carried along with those atoms, plus a huge contribution from gravity, and luckily for us the ignition of our own sun.

 

(Future: our own sun isn't massive enough to go nova itself, so everything in our own solar system pretty much stays here, cooling as the sun dies over the next 4B years, until maybe long, long afterward we "bump" into something else.)

[Old Dog 179138]

I am with many of you.... I think the afterlife would just make my head implode and cause a black hole.

 

If you ask if I believed in a theological afterlife, I would have to doubt whether that vision is possible.

 

My thoughts? The afterlife would be the same as the time before you were born... non existence. Like a big dreamless sleep from which you never wake and within which you never dream. There is no self awareness because self ceases to exist.

 

All other possibilities seem too ethereal, fraught with paradoxes. You are but you aren't. It's a tarnished utopia. You are damned even if you are blessed. Waiting to be joined by those who never want to join.

 

I would imagine it would be a place of perpetual lament. Loneliness. You may be fulfilled by seeing everyone you knew and loved joining you, but they would be filled with lament waiting for those that they knew and loved, and so on and so on. Infinite heartache. Compounded in eternity.

 

Nope. Throw me in dirt. Burn me to ash. I won't feel it and my body won't feel the injustice.

[billybob 20128]

I am not a scientist nor do I have a vast knowledge of the subject, I will defer to you that do.

[milfhunter1967 2154]

 

(Future: our own sun isn't massive enough to go nova itself, so everything in our own solar system pretty much stays here, cooling as the sun dies over the next 4B years, until maybe long, long afterward we "bump" into something else.)

Actually our sun will expand into a red giant as it uses up it's hydrogen fuel, Mercury,Venus and Earth will be consumed and Mars will be fried to a crisp.The outer gas giants will only be a shadow of what they are now as there atmospheres boil away!

[Guest S**a*Q]

I used to think that we just ended up in a hole and were eaten by worms... but now I have a different view on things.

 

I don't think it's good or evil that gets you into heaven or hell. I don't believe that either of these "places" exist physically. We leave our body behind, but our spirit lives on.

 

I think that heaven or hell is simply an extension of how we lived on earth, like our subconscious lives on after our physical self has expired.

 

I think that if you lead a happy life, your soul/energy will live on happy after death. Whereas on the other hand, if you were sad and miserable while you were alive, that's what your stuck with.

 

I believe you get back what you put into life. I believe in Karma and that happy people lead happy lives. If something's going wrong in your life, change it. We are the ones who control our own destinies. Why can't we control where we end up after death?

 

So on that note, I believe that I can affect where my soul will live on just by living a good life.

[MightyPen 67414]

Actually our sun will expand into a red giant as it uses up it's hydrogen fuel, Mercury,Venus and Earth will be consumed and Mars will be fried to a crisp.The outer gas giants will only be a shadow of what they are now as there atmospheres boil away!

They just a couple of weeks ago found planets still orbiting close 'round a post-red giant star, so it looks like the longstanding conventional wisdom that inner planets get consumed when the sun expands was wrong. But you're right, things get much hotter on the planets for a while from the increased radiation. Atmospheres boil away, so do the oceans, and everything gets very, very dry. We've only got about 1B years on earth 'til the water goes away and we resemble Mars today. But then, long term, everything cools WAY down. Either way, all the matter in the solar system, stays in the solar system.

[Reuben Sandwich 13841]

We've only got about 1B years on earth 'til the water goes away and we resemble Mars today. But then, long term, everything cools WAY down. Either way, all the matter in the solar system, stays in the solar system.

 

I first read this as 18, not 1 Billion, so at first I thought I missed something in the news lately. Damn progressive lenses.

 

So now that I have a bit more time, I lean to the idea that there is some essence of ourselves that remains after we die, That essence remains part of this world, no heaven or hell. Our world is always regenerating and we will remain part of it in some form.

I'm in no hurry to get ther but death is not something I fear, well at least not at this stage of my life.

Just give me until Friday thoough as I have a special date then.

[JuliasUndies 7288]

I've had near death experience where I thought I was going to die but no enlightenment that followed, as for afterlife...I need something to believe in that is better than this, something of a test here and that I will be going to a better place, that we will all be going to a better place. As for religion...

"I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't than to live as if there isn't and die to find out there is". Mother Theresa

[billybob 20128]

I've had near death experience where I thought I was going to die but no enlightenment that followed, as for afterlife...I need something to believe in that is better than this, something of a test here and that I will be going to a better place, that we will all be going to a better place.

 

A place better than CERB? Can't be.