I'm starting to feel ashamed....

[oldblueeyez 15475]

Not to bring everybody down, but geez, I'm starting to feel ashamed to be a man. Why do some men get so crazy when a woman wants a divorce or ends a relationship? It doesn't say yet if the killer is the husband/father, but I wouldn't be surprised. Isn't this kind of thing happening way too frequently?

 

2 girls, woman found dead in Quebec home

[ulixestrojan 3757]

This is not about being a man. He is a coward. Real men protect and care for others.

[roamingguy 300292]

Not to bring everybody down, but geez, I'm starting to feel ashamed to be a man. Why do some men get so crazy when a woman wants a divorce or ends a relationship? It doesn't say yet if the killer is the husband/father, but I wouldn't be surprised. Isn't this kind of thing happening way too frequently?

 

2 girls, woman found dead in Quebec home

 

The shame isn't yours and it has nothing to do with whether you are a man or a woman. A person's individual actions are his/her responsibility, and since the beginning of time there have been people who are monsters.

I don't believe, for example, the criminal actions of Karla Homolka make women ashamed to be women, or the criminal actions of Russell Williams make men ashamed to be men, or the criminal actions of the Shafia "family" make mothers ashamed to be mothers, fathers ashamed to be fathers, and brothers ashamed to be brothers. Monsters come in all shapes, sexes and sizes, and their actions shouldn't be your shame

What you can do is be the best human being you can be, and if you know of someone who may be at risk, get help for them...as simple as a call to the police

RG

[oldblueeyez 15475]

Yeah, but what's alarming to me is the frequency of these crimes.

Once in a while, sure, a woman does something like this, but the majority of these crimes are committed by men, and it's happening often. I think many men are trapped in some kind of macho, peer-pressured self-image which deems a man "unmanly" if he can't "keep" a woman. And many of these kinds of men are alcoholics, which in excess dements the mind. And many men don't have a social support network, just a few drinking buddies, so when they "lose" their wife and family, they descend into despondent insanity. I don't know, just throwing some thoughts out there.

 

Wasn't it not too long ago some western Canadian guy killed his wife in front of their kids because she was going off to Europe to live with somebody she met on the net?

[silverado17 12689]

when something like that happens it shows the guy is a coward why didn't he just do himself in but no he did in the women and the kids in no doubt they were his kids were they looking to die no and now they will spend all kinds of money on the court pay for his lawyer then protect him in jail

[Royalfun 55449]

(...) A person's individual actions are his/her responsibility, and since the beginning of time there have been people who are monsters.

I don't believe, for example, the criminal actions of Karla Homolka make women ashamed to be women, or the criminal actions of Russell Williams make men ashamed to be men, or the criminal actions of the Shafia "family" make mothers ashamed to be mothers, fathers ashamed to be fathers, and brothers ashamed to be brothers. Monsters come in all shapes, sexes and sizes, and their actions shouldn't be your shame

What you can do is be the best human being you can be, and if you know of someone who may be at risk, get help for them...as simple as a call to the police

RG

 

I'm with RG on this. I would add though, that each of us has the responsability to grow and to take care of our own psychology, our own behaviour and our sensitivity.

 

We live in a culture where we are the target of so much stimuli and stresses that if we are not aware of how we could react in a very stressfull situation, we could be ourself a time bomb.

 

I am not ashame to be a man but I feel very sad to see that some people, men or women, are so desperate that they loose the meaning of life, and the reality of the lives of others.

[mrrnice2 157005]

When one hears of situations such as these, and unfortunately they occur far too frequently, sadness and frustration and feeling a need to place blame are common reactions.

 

Each of us, male or female is an individual with our own responsibility for decision making, and each of us must live with the consequences of our actions.

 

Collective guilt is not logical or appropriate, be it the Japanese or German people of WW II, or in this situation, for men when presented with these types of atrocities committed against women, by other men.

 

I do understand how oldblueeyes, the originator of this thread, can feel a sense of embarrassment. I have felt that at times when reading about these types of situations but I look to myself, my inner self, and recognize that the only commonality between that person and me is our gender. For most men I hold that is equally true.

 

The role of society as a whole is where one must look should one need to cast blame or seek a solution to the root causes of this violence.

 

I believe that we have come a long way in even just the past few years when one looks at the role of women in our society as becoming equal to men. This progress is only partial progress and is as of yet nowhere near complete. Be it the reality that there is unequal pay between the sexes despite laws proclaiming equal pay for equal work, or the continual cases we read about where abusive men are allowed to violate terms of restraining orders, or the apathy of the police in cases involving sex workers, there is indeed a long long way to go.

 

Each of us has our own role in assuming personal responsibility for our own respectful treatment of all others, men or women. We can only continue to serve as individual examples for our families friends and neighbours with our own behaviour, as well as continue to support or to work with those lobby groups that strive towards the goal of protecting women from domestic violence and all violence in general.

[Sexy_LanaMegane 2288]

Not to bring everybody down, but geez, I'm starting to feel ashamed to be a man. Why do some men get so crazy when a woman wants a divorce or ends a relationship? It doesn't say yet if the killer is the husband/father, but I wouldn't be surprised. Isn't this kind of thing happening way too frequently?

 

2 girls, woman found dead in Quebec home

 

You are right it is happening frequently in Quebec for some reasons I don't know why. There are probably some reasons out there. I understand the shame you have and some men might have for the actions of some other men, but it is up to every women to carefully choose their own circle. Usually there are lots of forerunner signs. Anything subtle. I suggest to anyone in similar situation to talk with friends, family and possibly cops. oldblueeyes don't feel so ashame there are a lot of nice men out there and you are probably one of them.

[Guest Lep*******1**7]

Everyone has made good points about the origins of domestic violence and the responsibility of each of us to do our part to reduce it.

 

Domestic violence in general is about control, where the perpetrator has the impression that their spouse, children or others around them are not acting as they should. Traditionally men were the kings of the castle and ruled over their wife and children. The traditional role of men as supreme leader in the home, no longer truly exists, but some men still hang on to the concept and are frustrated when things do not go their way. When things do not go as they think they should they feel anxious and when they feel anxious they turn to violence as a way to bury that anxiety.

 

These people sometimes use verbal abuse violence or sexual assault in the attempt to regain control and to calm their insecurities. Some kick their dog because the dog doesn't eat its dinner. Others hit their kids because they "talk back" or are simply playing and making a bit of noise. A jealous husband may beat up his wife to "put her in her place". Others exercise other forms of control such as limiting access to money, to transportation and by keeping tabs on their spouse's comings and goings.

 

In such situations, jealousy, control and violence can escalate; even if the victim has done everything to conform to the spouse's orders. Many cases of rape are perpetrated by men who lack self-esteem and use the physical and sexual control over a woman as a temporary means to make them feel powerful and of value.

 

In extreme cases, spouses kill their partners. Some may be premeditated and some not, but in certain circumstances the perpetrator reaches a point of no return where they think that killing their spouse is some kind of answer to their tension or frustrations in their life. A husband may perceive a wife leaving him as a kind of assault, because of the emotions he feels at that time In his own mind he may feel that he is justified in killing his spouse and/or his children as she has abandoned him and he has lost the control over her, which was so important to his self-esteem. In cases of murder suicide, the husband may be depressive and wants to make sure that his wife and children do not live if he is going to take his life. It can also be a kind of distorted payback for perceived hurt caused by the spouse.

 

These men (as statistically it is mostly men) are usually not monsters or wild men. They come from all walks of life, rich and poor, well educated or not. Most have led a relatively normal life with family, friends and colleagues, going shopping, playing golf and paying their taxes. In many cases, however, abuse could have been going on behind the scenes for a long period of time.

 

Where people can be blamed is where they witness violence of any nature and do nothing, to reach out the victim, to seek advice or to report it to police. Hardly any crime can be carried out without someone seeing or hearing something eventually.

 

The Sapphira girls in Montreal went to school, complained about abuse to the schools, social workers and police, about being terrorized. And each of these authorities acted in isolation, just shifting them around like hot potatoes without ever taking steps to protect those girls and taking them out of harms way. All the signs were there of escalating violence, but no one acted on these indicators for fear of being considered racially intolerant.

 

As a result of that institutional inertia; the father, mother and son were able to carry out their plot and kill the three girls and their stepmother without a hitch. Once again, the father wanted to control his daughters' movements, friendships and activities and as the girls rebelled, the father decided to end their lives.

 

The fact that they will all be behind bars for a couple of decades does not bring back the innocent lives of those four lovely women. Hopefully there will be lessons learned by the authorities involved about preventing another tragedy such as this one.

 

Some statistics on domestic violence thanks to stats/can:

 

* 6% of Canadians with current of former spouses have reported being physically or sexually victimized by their spouse over the past five years

* The level of spousal abuse is lower in NFL and Quebec and higher in the western provinces and the territories

* Those numbers have been constant since 1994

* Most victims of domestic violence and homicide are between 15 and 25 years of age

*Close to one in five Canadians reported being victimized by emotional or financial abuse

*Children and youth under the age of 18 were sexually victimized or physically assaulted in 85% of cases by someone they knew.

*95% of domestic violence is perpetrated by men against women

* The majority of male victims are assaulted by other men.

* 1/3 of women will experience domestic violence in their lifetime

*Women are victimized more often than men by the same perpetrator

*The rate of family related sexual offences was more that four times higher for girls than for boys.

*Women suffer more serious assaults than men at home

* 13% of those assaulted at home are hospitalized

* Three times more woman than men die from domestic homicide(525 vs. 175)

 

I agree that some things have changed towards a greater equality of the sexes. Many laws have been changed to reflect such changes and certain institutions have been created or modified to enforce those values.

 

But the hardest part of finding a new equilibrium between the sexes is the changing the hearts of men in accepting these changes in a positive light. We all have to give up our traditional position of power and its social benefits when compared to women, children and other more vulnerable groups. If more women hold positions of power in all walks of life, that will mean that not as many men will be able to fill such roles. Men's salaries will also decline overall as women fill a proportional share of higher paid positions. While all of these changes are for the good, we must still recognize that with any change comes fears, insecurities and frustration by those who are giving something up.

 

In any case, domestic violence as a subset of other forms of violence will not disappear overnight, but men can today lead by example, showing respect to all the women in their lives and speaking out against any violence that they witness. We should also support efforts towards greater social, economic and political equality between men and woman. The guy who yells that a "bitch has stolen" his job, should be put into his place by those who know him. We have to be more intolerant of such opinions and not just slough them off as a joke.

 

Women should feel protected to speak to others around them and not just the police if they are in fear of their safety or the safety of their children. Too many women feel isolated and are prisoners in their own homes with no one to turn to if they are in danger. From friends, neighbours, acquaintances, teachers, doctors, police and others, we should not turn a blind eye to domestic violence, but should denounce it and do everything in our power to condemn the cowardice of the perpetrators of that violence, while supporting and reaching out to protect the victims.

 

I also believe that men should get together to discuss these issues and to see what we can do to help other men to find better means to deal with their emotional difficulties, whether they be because of work, home or other pressures. We should talk to these men, listen to their frustration and pass on our own coping mechanisms to deal with emotional upheavals and frustrations, other the destructive path of physical, emotional and sexual abuse on their spouse and children.

 

Imprisonment is all we have got after the fact; but it does little to change the underlying dynamic that desperately needs changing. Our governments should invest in preventative programs at the community level to help men to deal with their frustrations, even if such programs may only save a few precious lives.

 

Tom